Minimum distance on Teleport Strike and morphs.

Maulkin

Right, so since 1.6 gap-closers cause the target to be rooted and silenced. Didn't agree with this change but whatever, that's done.

The problem that I find roaming around with my DK is the NBs that spam Teleport Strike and its morphs. The issue is that unlike Shield Charge, Critical Rush or Toppling Charge, this skill does not have a minimum distance. Even if you are in front of the target, you can still activate the skill. That means that if someone is just sitting in front you spamming Ambush or Lotus Fan, you are permanently rooted and silenced for long periods.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if the skill got a 5m-7m minimum distance like the other gap closers. So you can still catch up with targets like it's intended too, but not keep them perma rooted.

Levo18

No

Maulkin

Levo18 wrote: »

No

Lol

Soulac

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Right, so since 1.6 gap-closers cause the target to be rooted and silenced. Didn't agree with this change but whatever, that's done.

The problem that I find roaming around with my DK is the NBs that spam Teleport Strike and its morphs. The issue is that unlike Shield Charge, Critical Rush or Toppling Charge, this skill does not have a minimum distance. Even if you are in front of the target, you can still activate the skill. That means that if someone is just sitting in front you spamming Ambush or Lotus Fan, you are permanently rooted and silenced for long periods.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if the skill got a 5m-7m minimum distance like the other gap closers. So you can still catch up with targets like it's intended too, but not keep them perma rooted.

It's funny how Ambush roots enemies as it stands in the tooltip, but the same applies on all gap closers.
Imo gap closers shouldn't root or silence anyone at all, also a minimum range on Ambush wouldn't be bad, but on the other hand Ambush got a cast time.
If he really uses Ambush in front of you, bash him. Should work or did they change it like they did with WB and jabs?

Maulkin

Soulac wrote: »

It's funny how Ambush roots enemies as it stands in the tooltip, but the same applies on all gap closers.
Imo gap closers shouldn't root or silence anyone at all, also a minimum range on Ambush wouldn't be bad, but on the other hand Ambush got a cast time.

I would obviously much prefer if the gap closers didn't root and silience me, but the sage that is Eric Wrobel is very happy with his change apparently. So I've given up fighting this, it seems like it's here to stay

Soulac wrote: »

If he really uses Ambush in front of you, bash him. Should work or did they change it like they did with WB and jabs?

I haven't tested this. Dunno know if it's bashable. My problem quite frankly is not the one guy. It's the fact he keeps you permarooted and silenced for his buddies to do the pounding. Not so much of a problem on the Sorc, there are gaps in the Silence and you can streak away. Much more of a problem on the DK.

Also it seems that the default immobilize they added on gap closers goes through Retreating Manoeuvres. Need to test more though

Asmael

I don't mind teleport strike/morphs too much, but the root you get on all charges is just some atrocious BS.

Also seems like you can't block someone who has started using either teleport strike or Shield charge/morphs, and that you get CC'ed anyway. And that drives me crazy.

Maulkin

Asmael wrote: »

I don't mind teleport strike/morphs too much, but the root you get on all charges is just some atrocious BS.

Well how can you say that it's "some atrocious BS" and then say you don't mind it when Teleport Strike applies it over and over and over because of no minimum distance checks (unlike other gap closers)?

Asmael

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

I don't mind teleport strike/morphs too much, but the root you get on all charges is just some atrocious BS.

Well how can you say that it's "some atrocious BS" and then say you don't mind it when Teleport Strike applies it over and over and over because of no minimum distance checks (unlike other gap closers)?

Because they are, in the end, 2 in-built CC.
The one coming from the fact that the game considers it's a charge, and stucks you while it's being cast, which is atrocious.
The second coming from the tooltip itself which wouldn't be so strong without the first one, and is OK in my regard.

Sorry for not being clear sooner, my bad

#Edit: Derpy statements corrected

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Soulac wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Right, so since 1.6 gap-closers cause the target to be rooted and silenced. Didn't agree with this change but whatever, that's done.

The problem that I find roaming around with my DK is the NBs that spam Teleport Strike and its morphs. The issue is that unlike Shield Charge, Critical Rush or Toppling Charge, this skill does not have a minimum distance. Even if you are in front of the target, you can still activate the skill. That means that if someone is just sitting in front you spamming Ambush or Lotus Fan, you are permanently rooted and silenced for long periods.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if the skill got a 5m-7m minimum distance like the other gap closers. So you can still catch up with targets like it's intended too, but not keep them perma rooted.

It's funny how Ambush roots enemies as it stands in the tooltip, but the same applies on all gap closers.
Imo gap closers shouldn't root or silence anyone at all, also a minimum range on Ambush wouldn't be bad, but on the other hand Ambush got a cast time.
If he really uses Ambush in front of you, bash him. Should work or did they change it like they did with WB and jabs?

I believe they made it unintteruptable, I just get get nbs with crudhing shock while the ambushed, I haven't donr that in awhile.

aco5712

they removed the cast time from ambush to be instant but the same animation plays so its become uninterruptable.

timidobserver

I like NBs that do this. They are doing much less damage than they could do with a skill rotation.

Maulkin

timidobserver wrote: »

I like NBs that do this. They are doing much less damage than they could do with a skill rotation.

And healers would be doing more damage if they weren't healing. But they heal so they offer group utility.

The reason NBs spam Ambush, or at least the reason I do it on my NB, is because it keeps the target perma-rooted and silenced while the animation is playing, so my friends can get to work on him. But I feel like it's a dirty mechanic that's getting abused because of ZOS' change on gap closers.

I think adding a 5m-7m minimum range like with Shield Charge, would not be a massive nerf to the skill or anything. It would just stop static Ambush spam and the perma root and silence.

Etaniel

timidobserver wrote: »

I like NBs that do this. They are doing much less damage than they could do with a skill rotation.

Yeah except they perma CC you and they are your death if you are fighting 1vX. So annoying to see something but to be unable to react because of the BS silence

Soulac

aco5712 wrote: »

they removed the cast time from ambush to be instant but the same animation plays so its become uninterruptable.

It still has a cast time since you're able to interrupt it by yourself with a simple block or dodge.
Sometimes if I get stunned or interrupted mid cast I can't break the stun at all, I'm just standing there..

CP5

Soulac wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

they removed the cast time from ambush to be instant but the same animation plays so its become uninterruptable.

It still has a cast time since you're able to interrupt it by yourself with a simple block or dodge.
Sometimes if I get stunned or interrupted mid cast I can't break the stun at all, I'm just standing there..

You can block to stop uppercut or rite of passage early as well, bu they are uninterruptable.

timidobserver

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I like NBs that do this. They are doing much less damage than they could do with a skill rotation.

And healers would be doing more damage if they weren't healing. But they heal so they offer group utility.

The reason NBs spam Ambush, or at least the reason I do it on my NB, is because it keeps the target perma-rooted and silenced while the animation is playing, so my friends can get to work on him. But I feel like it's a dirty mechanic that's getting abused because of ZOS' change on gap closers.

I think adding a 5m-7m minimum range like with Shield Charge, would not be a massive nerf to the skill or anything. It would just stop static Ambush spam and the perma root and silence.

Maybe I'm unique. I prefer teleport strike spam over surprise attack when I am healing.

mcurley

It just doesn't make sense to have a minimum distance for Teleport Strike.

The way I see it is that you need a few meters to build up the momentum for a charge attack. A teleport is a teleport... if you want to teleport 2 inches you should be able to.

None of them should root before they hit though, that is a completely random and pointless mechanic.

Maulkin

mcurley wrote: »

It just doesn't make sense to have a minimum distance for Teleport Strike.

The way I see it is that you need a few meters to build up the momentum for a charge attack. A teleport is a teleport... if you want to teleport 2 inches you should be able to.

None of them should root before they hit though, that is a completely random and pointless mechanic.

Well you are talking immersion now and that has little to do with balance.

But look, I agree with you. I would much prefer that charges don't root & silence before they hit you and then Teleport Strike would be fine without minimum distance. But Eric Wrobel has said he is happy with that mechanic, however stupid we all think it is, so he's not gonna change it.

That means unfortunately that unless a minimum distance check is put on Teleport Strike, people will be able to permaroot and silence you and it is very very cheesy, to not say broken.

Like I said, I don't see why NBs would see that as a significant nerf or anything unless they were in fact abusing the root & silence thing. Once you close the gap Concealed Weapon or Surprise Attack are much better for damage and if your target walks out of range of those you can always close the gap again.

Lava_Croft

I don't care either way since the only times I spam Lotus Fan is when I can kill someone with it while annoying them to no end by spamming a single skill.

I mean... oh well...

mcurley

I guess for balance it should definitely be considered but I stand by my comment on it not making sense.

As a NB i don't think this would be a significant nerf (granted I don't use this spell)... as you say there are plenty of options for us once we close the gap.

Master_Kas

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Right, so since 1.6 gap-closers cause the target to be rooted and silenced. Didn't agree with this change but whatever, that's done.

The problem that I find roaming around with my DK is the NBs that spam Teleport Strike and its morphs. The issue is that unlike Shield Charge, Critical Rush or Toppling Charge, this skill does not have a minimum distance. Even if you are in front of the target, you can still activate the skill. That means that if someone is just sitting in front you spamming Ambush or Lotus Fan, you are permanently rooted and silenced for long periods.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if the skill got a 5m-7m minimum distance like the other gap closers. So you can still catch up with targets like it's intended too, but not keep them perma rooted.

FYI, lotus fan doesn't silence nor root you. Snares

Soris

I'd prefer that ambush spam rather than spamming conc weapon/surprise attack. That one hurts less at least

Maulkin

Master_Kas wrote: »

FYI, lotus fan doesn't silence nor root you. Snares

Every gap closer does that, Lotus Fan included. The moment you press Lotus Fan, I am rooted and silenced until you arrive. When you arrive I'm snared whereas with Ambush, I'm immobilised some more.

ToRelax

When I am in a 1v2 or something and an enemy NB just (tries to) spams Ambush on me, that's cute.
But I would give that up to be able to actually move while in Mistform...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Why add a minimum it's a teleportation power it don't fellow the same rules as other gap closers. You don't have a minimum distance cause you're teleporting this is the same reason I don't need a path to hit I can hit you up a rock cause I teleported.

Now if you really want to add a minimum distance like all the other gap closers have they it needs a bonus based on distance. Like all the charging Gap closers have.

Ambush point blank and at max range does the same damage.

Increase the damage buff on next attack, damage from stealth, the time of the root or add some kind of extra effect if you want to reduce teleportation gap closers to charging gap closers.

Maulkin

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Increase the damage buff on next attack, damage from stealth, the time of the root or add some kind of extra effect if you want to reduce teleportation gap closers to charging gap closers.

Focused Charge, the Templar gap closer, does not scale with distance. The other morphs of Crit Rush and Invasion also don't scale with distance. Ambush is pretty strong as it is, it doesn't need any buffs, you need to stop being greedy.

It is the only gap closer that gets stealth bonus, it is the 2nd highest in damage only after Crit Rush, it has CC, it grants Emprower on next attack, it can teleport you over paths you can't cross . It has damage, CC and utility. It has everything.

Adding a minimum distance is necessary in my opinion to stop the perma-root and silence which were never part of the skill to begin with.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Increase the damage buff on next attack, damage from stealth, the time of the root or add some kind of extra effect if you want to reduce teleportation gap closers to charging gap closers.

Focused Charge, the Templar gap closer, does not scale with distance. The other morphs of Crit Rush and Invasion also don't scale with distance. Ambush is pretty strong as it is, it doesn't need any buffs, you need to stop being greedy.

It is the only gap closer that gets stealth bonus, it is the 2nd highest in damage only after Crit Rush, it has CC, it grants Emprower on next attack, it can teleport you over paths you can't cross . It has damage, CC and utility. It has everything.

Adding a minimum distance is necessary in my opinion to stop the perma-root and silence which were never part of the skill to begin with.

How good a root on a gap closer I'm in zero meters on my target 100% for my attacks will work. Why would it path it teleports you next to your target why would you need a path for that.

It gets the stealth bonus for two reasons one it's the only attack in the Assassination tree Killer's Blade is an execute the rest are buffs and debuffs. Also it's teleports a stealth teleport makes more sense then being able to stealth run or jump in the air to attack your target.

Greedy?? The power was heavily used by stamina builds in 1.5 before it got the it's stamina change. It was nerfed then given to stamina builds we lose 16% of the next attack buff, loss the stun you can't move for a second awesome you would been in range of my next attack anyway. (Being silenced is BS and needs to be remove) The cherry on the cake is it still is the only gap closer with a cast time you can still bash to the attack.

bowmanz607

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Right, so since 1.6 gap-closers cause the target to be rooted and silenced. Didn't agree with this change but whatever, that's done.

The problem that I find roaming around with my DK is the NBs that spam Teleport Strike and its morphs. The issue is that unlike Shield Charge, Critical Rush or Toppling Charge, this skill does not have a minimum distance. Even if you are in front of the target, you can still activate the skill. That means that if someone is just sitting in front you spamming Ambush or Lotus Fan, you are permanently rooted and silenced for long periods.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if the skill got a 5m-7m minimum distance like the other gap closers. So you can still catch up with targets like it's intended too, but not keep them perma rooted.

This is one way in which nb are unique. Making a change Luke this would make all gap closers operate in roughly the same way. Why 8s it that so many people want 9ne skill to operate like all the others. Where is the diversity in that. I have an idea...let's get rid 9f all the unique features of classes and just have all builds rely on weapon, alliance, guild and world skills to make sure no class has anything to complain about. Adding a minimum distance would just force all nb to run 2h gap closer. Then everyone will yell nerf to that gap closer. Where should the line be drawn?

Maulkin

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is one way in which nb are unique. Making a change Luke this would make all gap closers operate in roughly the same way.

I've already explained the many ways Ambush is unique even with minimum distance. It's the only gap closer that gets stealth bonus, it's a teleport (i.e. no pathing required) and it grants Empower. That's all unique. It's not like adding that minimum distance would make it the same as other skills, however much you claim that.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Adding a minimum distance would just force all nb to run 2h gap closer. Then everyone will yell nerf to that gap closer. Where should the line be drawn?

This is just blabbering nonsense. Adding minimum distance will not force anyone to use Crit Rush for the reasons I've described above. It's not making the skill invalid.

I don't know where the line should be drawn but it's well before a skill causes major issues. Which is what's happening because like I said spamming Ambush from 0 distance causes perma-root and silence. If these changes had not happened I would have no problem with the 0 distance, but they have. So the skill currently is causing issues.

I do however enjoy how NBs never accept even a tiny alteration on their skills when they create an absolute crap-storm about other classes when they think something is too strong. Adding a 5m-7m minimum range will have nearly 0 effect on you unless you are are basically abusing the gap-closing mechanic to root and silence.

Asmael

That wouldn't fix the global issues that all charges basically root / silence you. I don't think the issue is with Ambush in particular. Fix the issue with charges first, THEN, see if Ambush is still a problem when spammed at close range.

Maulkin

Asmael wrote: »

That wouldn't fix the global issues that all charges basically root / silence you. I don't think the issue is with Ambush in particular. Fix the issue with charges first, THEN, see if Ambush is still a problem when spammed at close range.

Like I said in the original post. I'd rather they revert the change in the gap closers and then I'm happy with Teleport Strike staying how it is. However Wrobel has said he's happy with that change of his and he's not considering reverting it.

One of the two has to change cause it's a problem. If Wrobel doesn't change the gap closers, he needs to add minimum distance to Teleport Strike.