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Nerfing the new vet dungeons already?

  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    Honestly, these nerfs will inevitably be the end of this game, these dungeons are a walk in the park right now, I can walk many players through them for completes and even farm, I've been helping a bunch of people out.
    The people complaining honestly need to stop and look and figure out how the mechanics work, what they can do to beat them, because dumbing dungeons down so players can beat them is not the way to go it's a shame the difficulty is right where they should be, I enjoy raiding with my group(s) and having fun in chat with them for a few hours every day, they lose their fun when they become too easy which is what is going to happen I can imagine.

    My question is why is this happening, why are you going to dumb the hardest content down right now so anyone can beat it, I believe that promotes an extremely bad playstyle, because the players are forced to adapt to the new mechanics and actually do them for once they get rolled for 3 hours in a dungeon and deem it impossible to do because they refuse to learn the game. See, I for one find that highly unfair theres normal mode for a reason and there is hardmode for the hardcore raiding players who love a challenge, why should we be the ones to suffer? And yes the gear should be VR16 for only the Veteran because we actually put the work in, farm it and do it until we know how to, we don't sit there asking for nerfs over and over because we refuse to learn mechanics and change our playstyle up.

    I hope you revert this change @ZOS_RichLambert and/or do not let this go through, or at the very least to make keys drop from normal too and only work on normal vaults. The players who are here for a challenge is with this content, those no death challenges are very damn hard, especially Prison, I love it. When we strip all the difficulty away from these dungeons, what are we going to do while we wait for Orsinium? There's going to be absolutely nothing to do.
    #MOREORBS
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    Thank you @ZOS_RichLambert .

    Can you please just not make another Planar Inhibitor again?
    Maybe you need to adapt your playstyle :) this fight is extremely easy.
    #MOREORBS
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    I honestly do not know what to play now that they completely destroyed the PvP of this game. Cyrodiil is dead, and in IC you better run around in a fu... 20+man train or get rekt

    I hope they update Arena/Trials to v16 asap.
    Edited by Alcast on 12 September 2015 22:32
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  • zomnomnombie
    zomnomnombie
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    Well obviously the game needed more trivialized PVE content. Time to put the DPS gear back on and get ready for some more stack and burn.

    I love the wanting to vomit feel that doing AA gives me. Now I get to feel that scaled to V16!
    If we all agree on it it must be true. [citation needed]
  • RustedValor
    RustedValor
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    Simple solution is they need to add a 3rd tier of difficulty for hardcores to the dungeons that has the same rewards as tier 2 but much better drop rates for the good gear. This difficulty should only be completable with high skill and top end gear and still be tough so people actually have a reason to progress their CP and gear. No point in endless character progression when there is no challenge.
    Edited by RustedValor on 12 September 2015 23:24
  • DisgracefulMind
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    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Xendyn
    Xendyn
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    Welcome to the age of

    participation-trophy.png
    Lag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
    A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
    There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
    Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history

    PC/NA
  • Sithisvoid
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    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Hold my hand and teach me how?
  • Suru
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    Challenge needed or not, the only people I see in this thread are hardcore players, not everyone is and you have to realize the "Casual" players you make reference of are a majority of the community, even if there is a normal.They don't need to cater or feed your "l33t" demeanor. The fight is.incredibly difficult and doable, but only seems to be with a subset group of players to complete it and that is slightly a problem. Nerf inc or not.
    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Have to disagree, some of the most popular threads were qq on gear drops and people like jules trying to help people help get kena which was super cool of her haha.
    Edited by Suru on 12 September 2015 23:51


    Suru
  • DisgracefulMind
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    Suru wrote: »
    Challenge needed or not, the only people I see in this thread are hardcore players, not everyone is and you have to realize the "Casual" players you make reference of are a majority of the community, even if there is a normal.They don't need to cater or feed your "l33t" demeanor. The fight is.incredibly difficult and doable, but only seems to be with a subset group of players to complete it and that is slightly a problem. Nerf inc or not.
    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Have to disagree, some of the most popular threads were qq on gear drops and people like jules trying to help people help get kena which was super cool of her haha.

    Did I specifically state that it was just the dungeons people on the forums are crying about? It's almost every single little detail in this game that people sit on the forums and complain about. Look at the Alliance War threads, look through the Combat threads, etc. ~80% of it is complaining. And yes, it was lovely of Jules to make videos trying to help people. But what relevance did that have to my statement? None.
    Edited by DisgracefulMind on 12 September 2015 23:58
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Thank you @ZOS_RichLambert .

    Can you please just not make another Planar Inhibitor again?
    Maybe you need to adapt your playstyle :) this fight is extremely easy.

    Yes, tanking isn't valuable on that fight. How is that for unfair?
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • Suru
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    Suru wrote: »
    Challenge needed or not, the only people I see in this thread are hardcore players, not everyone is and you have to realize the "Casual" players you make reference of are a majority of the community, even if there is a normal.They don't need to cater or feed your "l33t" demeanor. The fight is.incredibly difficult and doable, but only seems to be with a subset group of players to complete it and that is slightly a problem. Nerf inc or not.
    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Have to disagree, some of the most popular threads were qq on gear drops and people like jules trying to help people help get kena which was super cool of her haha.

    Did I specifically state that it was just the dungeons people on the forums are crying about? It's almost every single little detail in this game that people sit on the forums and complain about. Look at the Alliance War threads, look through the Combat threads, etc. ~80% of it is complaining. And yes, it was lovely of Jules to make videos trying to help people. But what relevance did that have to my statement? None.

    First reference what some of the most popular QQ not dungeom difficulty, and second to point.out that not everyone on the forums QQ :smile:


    Suru
  • Personofsecrets
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    @Nifty2g

    Shouldn't you, out of all people, understand how challenge is what players make it and not necessarily a function of how hard an enemy hits?
    Edited by Personofsecrets on 13 September 2015 00:10
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • Prof_Bawbag
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    I have no idea why people are blaming these changes on console players. We don't even have it yet. Take your rose tinted PC glasses off and actually read the complaints. They're coming from PC players. Seriously, how can we as console players complain about something we haven't yet played or even attempted? Some people really do go around with their head firmly up their arse.
  • Personofsecrets
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    It's easy, you are just going to have to change the way you think

    Where have we heard before that what should be in the game is constituted by what is technically possible to do? Oh, I know.
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • Personofsecrets
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    People who wanted the new dungeons to hit hard and force 'mechanics' really only have themselves to blame for the nerf. Praxin Douare and Keeper Imiril of all the bosses have been nerfd pretty heavily and you all didn't expect the new dungeons to follow suit?
    Edited by Personofsecrets on 13 September 2015 00:23
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • sagitter
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    I don't think the problem is that ZOS thinks the dungeons can't be done, they probably have a statistic of how many groups get past the first boss, how many past the second boss, and so on..

    From those statistics, they'll probably do a bit of tweaking to see if those statistics go up.

    If for instance, only around 50 groups manage to clear the dungeon on vet, but 5000 groups attempt it, that means 200 happy players and 20.000 slightly all the way to ragequitting unhappy.

    But correct me if I'm wrong, weren't the dungeon's supposed to have a feature that automatically nerfed a dungeon if a group kept dying? If so, those 50 groups still get a hard dungeon, while those 5000 others have a better chance at completing it? Or was that never implemented?

    Too early to make statistics in 2 weeks!
  • Kronosphere
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    well thats not fair at all. just because there are casuals doesnt mean you have to water down the product and not cater to other people who take things a bit more seriously. if everything is easy the game WILL become boring and then it will lose even more players. and i bet the hardcore players are the ones subbing, buying crowns and actually investing money into this game. the majority probably havent spent much more than the price of the game.

    when companies water down games and make them easy, the game loses reputation and in exchange for some early popularity but in the longterm its a bad idea.

    what is the problem with nonvet? thats your casual players dungeon leave vet alone that is the thing people strive for. take away that and there is nothing to aspire to and then you have yourself a boring game.

    dont turn this game into an iphone game please..
    Edited by Kronosphere on 13 September 2015 01:05
    ~House Indoril~
    Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.

  • Artemiisia
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    well u cant be surpriced that they are nerfing them, when they put it as gold key pledges this was bound to happen, remember not everybody has the time to do like 3 hours of traning, and sitting on like fire atronach boss in wgt, or flesh atro enrage in prison to get the mechanics learned.

    dont get me wrong I like the challenge as well, but the is a mmo game that like most things aims for the masses, and not the top 5% players, they need to make a living still, and if the content becomes to hard, people leave its thats simple,

  • Mojmir
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    I say keep it difficult,remove the BoP.
  • SkylarkAU
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Thank you @ZOS_RichLambert .

    Can you please just not make another Planar Inhibitor again?
    Maybe you need to adapt your playstyle :) this fight is extremely easy.

    I've had a couple of semi serious runs at vet WGT so far and have yet to finish but I have enjoyed the challenge immensely so I don't necessarily agree straight off the bat that a hard nerf is the right course of action.. That said, Nifty, in terms of skill and experience at PvE content you are head and shoulders above 95% of the player base - maybe apply that talent to sharing some detailed breakdowns of the harder mechanics rather than telling the rest of us how easy it is!
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  • Mawgusta
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    I've been farming cps on all of my free time as a DC player on Haderus. I'm only at 200 so I figure once I get to 360-400 I can slow down and relax. In doing so I'm at the best spot for it in IC that you can earn TVs and trophies. Playing as much as I do at one of the best spots for cps/tv I've been among all classes of players (6 hours a day at least).. Someone in this thread and their friends hit IC mobs like mac trucks and take little damage. It looks like VR14 characters in a level 45 zone pre-IC.

    Having the best cps, best understanding of class, passive, cp, and gear mechanics.. Striving to make the game as unchallenging as possible, might make the game unchallenging.

    Who do the devs create content for? Players with 700+ cp all the knowledge and best gear that think the game is too easy or new players with under 100cp, and researching crafts still?

    A better question, how far is a raid guild behind if they try to play this game as newbies today? Would you stay? Nine months of horse training, 9 traits, nirn, cps.

    ZoS should probably listen to everyone in this thread. If I brought a raid guild here to ESO. I would most likely see a perfect world cash shop grind and split with my guild..


  • sagitter
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    Artemiisia wrote: »
    well u cant be surpriced that they are nerfing them, when they put it as gold key pledges this was bound to happen, remember not everybody has the time to do like 3 hours of traning, and sitting on like fire atronach boss in wgt, or flesh atro enrage in prison to get the mechanics learned.

    dont get me wrong I like the challenge as well, but the is a mmo game that like most things aims for the masses, and not the top 5% players, they need to make a living still, and if the content becomes to hard, people leave its thats simple,

    If you want the gold key , just scale down on vet levels the dungeon...between v1 and v16 there is huge difference in difficulty. If you want the mask , just do it normale mode, what's the problem?
  • Treasure_Goblin
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    Wonder how many people saying it's "fine" have less than 50 champion points.
  • SeptimusDova
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    Why did they make the adjustments ? Was a reason given ?
  • timidobserver
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    People who wanted the new dungeons to hit hard and force 'mechanics' really only have themselves to blame for the nerf. Praxin Douare and Keeper Imiril of all the bosses have been nerfd pretty heavily and you all didn't expect the new dungeons to follow suit?

    The difference is that this is being nerfed much quicker than anything else has been. Usually they give those that like a challenge time to finish mastering the original version before waving the easy mode wand over it.
    Edited by timidobserver on 13 September 2015 05:41
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  • Nifty2g
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    SkylarkAU wrote: »
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Thank you @ZOS_RichLambert .

    Can you please just not make another Planar Inhibitor again?
    Maybe you need to adapt your playstyle :) this fight is extremely easy.

    I've had a couple of semi serious runs at vet WGT so far and have yet to finish but I have enjoyed the challenge immensely so I don't necessarily agree straight off the bat that a hard nerf is the right course of action.. That said, Nifty, in terms of skill and experience at PvE content you are head and shoulders above 95% of the player base - maybe apply that talent to sharing some detailed breakdowns of the harder mechanics rather than telling the rest of us how easy it is!
    easiest way is to have 2 people rotate the pinion and rotate the other one in when/if the one of the 2 main people get "portal duty", try to get the boss to about 55% before she turns to a blue flame, when she turns to a blue flame just kite her around and survive. when shes finished the blue flame she removes the huge dot on you, then just repeat.

    use harness or a shield, do the fight offensively, make sure when you are on portals you try to get no adds spawning and make sure you communicate as much as possible. and have your tank spec into offheals or dps
    #MOREORBS
  • notimetocare
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    sagitter wrote: »
    zornyan wrote: »
    sagitter wrote: »
    What really???there is normal mode for unexperienced players to do fine with it.... Finally we got something challenge and you want to nerf it? seriously. It's not about top of the player, everyone can finish vet mode, need just practice and determination but most of gen players are too lazy it seems. Anyway there are others games challenging and hard for the masses , like Dark souls, so we aren't just 5%.If most of console players are too lazy to get some challenge , nerf it just for them , and don't nerf it for pc players pls.

    Hardcore players are in a vast minority, the people paying the bills for zos and any game maker in general are casuals, people that play for an hour or two every couple of evenings.

    Hence the CP catch up system coming out, hence the crown store to buy upgrades etc.

    Hardcore players aren't buying crowns to train a horse faster, they're not buying crowns to get purple food and drinks, or buy motifs.

    Casuals are, and that's what's helping to pay for the zos staff, the servers and the future expansions.


    THERE is normal version for them!!!!! it's the same dungeon same bosses and same mechanics in both mode but easyer, also same dropp just v15 instead of v16! and if they want gold key they can just scale it to lower level! leave veteran mode like an hard mode for challenge!

    "Screw you people paying for me to have a game, you don't deserve to have the same content level as me" Challenge mode style stuff should be separate form all content.
  • DisgracefulMind
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    Suru wrote: »
    Suru wrote: »
    Challenge needed or not, the only people I see in this thread are hardcore players, not everyone is and you have to realize the "Casual" players you make reference of are a majority of the community, even if there is a normal.They don't need to cater or feed your "l33t" demeanor. The fight is.incredibly difficult and doable, but only seems to be with a subset group of players to complete it and that is slightly a problem. Nerf inc or not.
    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Have to disagree, some of the most popular threads were qq on gear drops and people like jules trying to help people help get kena which was super cool of her haha.

    Did I specifically state that it was just the dungeons people on the forums are crying about? It's almost every single little detail in this game that people sit on the forums and complain about. Look at the Alliance War threads, look through the Combat threads, etc. ~80% of it is complaining. And yes, it was lovely of Jules to make videos trying to help people. But what relevance did that have to my statement? None.

    First reference what some of the most popular QQ not dungeom difficulty, and second to point.out that not everyone on the forums QQ :smile:

    Majority of posts on these forums is complaining. Sure, not everyone does it, but many, many do. And the most popular QQ is about wanting things nerfed. My point, again, is there.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Nebthet78
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    Suru wrote: »
    Challenge needed or not, the only people I see in this thread are hardcore players, not everyone is and you have to realize the "Casual" players you make reference of are a majority of the community, even if there is a normal.They don't need to cater or feed your "l33t" demeanor. The fight is.incredibly difficult and doable, but only seems to be with a subset group of players to complete it and that is slightly a problem. Nerf inc or not.
    They're already nerfing them because all people on these forums do all day is cry and whine about every little thing they have any sort of difficulty with. It's absolutely ridiculous. How about people try to learn to play the game instead of wanting to be catered to nonstop and have their hand held through anything they find even slightly difficult.

    Have to disagree, some of the most popular threads were qq on gear drops and people like jules trying to help people help get kena which was super cool of her haha.

    I'm not a hard core player and I was able to do the Imperial Prison with 3 guildmates this evening on Vet levels. I was new to the guild and it was their first time working with me. I had a hybrid build as well and we know how bad they were nerfed with the new changes. I had to relearn my character.

    What makes success is listening to the advice other players give you, being willing to change up your skill line and add a new skill if you have the points for it, and not be so darned afraid of dying several times if that is what it takes to get the mechanics down, and if you need to, there is this thing called GOOGLE.. use it.. very helpful with mechanics and strategies.

    If you don't have team speak, actually get it!! It helps, especially when avoiding those portals and aoe attacks and re-coordinating.

    Oh and the big one... MOVE... MOVE.... MOVE.... you cannot stand in one place with these bosses and expect to whittle them down in HP.. If you are standing in a spot for more than 2 seconds then you are not safe. No ifs, ands or buts.

    I am more upset about getting a Combat Physician and Endurance set pieces that dropped that are Bound so I cannot trade them or sell them for something I actually need instead. :(
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