Why do keep in Cyrodiil have walls?

Ashanne

For good looks and immersion is the answer.
Yep, they are useless, any dk/some nbs (mostly a dc dk with hemorrhoids) can jump in almost any castle/keep. I have proof if anyone still needs this.

Remove the walls, they are not keeping us safe (until breached) they are just for spending AP on siege and repair kits.


@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

wellerrocks

To be fair they keep 95% of people out just a small amount that glitch in.

Farorin

I wish it was actually possible to get over the walls as a valid tactic.

Ashanne

Well then let it be fair for all players...lets us all inside.. REMOVE USELESS WALLS

Plus its not a glitch..lets be honest here..

Garion

A limited amount of players can get into a keep without breaching in certain circumstances if the conditions are ideal... I think you over exaggerate the impact it has.

Forztr

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.


Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

Ashanne

Garion wrote: »

A limited amount of players can get into a keep without breaching in certain circumstances if the conditions are ideal... I think you over exaggerate the impact it has.

I'm not exaggerating...why should only some players do it? why shouldn't we all be able too? Why should 5% of players have that "perk"? I'm asking for a fair and equal game... or let us all be able to kill you while u are sieging from the inner keep or let none...its just fair game
Also, i'm pretty sure Mr Wheeler said a while back that its NOT an intended mechanic to get into a castle while it is not breached (especially on inner wall)

eNumbra

Because if keeps didn't have walls, they'd be gives.

Garion

Ashanne wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

A limited amount of players can get into a keep without breaching in certain circumstances if the conditions are ideal... I think you over exaggerate the impact it has.

I'm not exaggerating...why should only some players do it? why shouldn't we all be able too? Why should 5% of players have that "perk"? I'm asking for a fair and equal game... or let us all be able to kill you while u are sieging from the inner keep or let none...its just fair game
Also, i'm pretty sure Mr Wheeler said a while back that its NOT an intended mechanic to get into a castle while it is not breached (especially on inner wall)

I said you are exaggerating the impact - and you are. You yourself said that only a small amount of the population can achieve this, so it's hardly comparable to removing walls altogether. I've always been of the opinion that things like this make combat and PvP more diverse, unpredictable and therefore enjoyable and exciting. I recognise that some people disagree.

In any event, anyone can do this with Werewolf and the right passives / skills

Ashanne

So you say anyone can do it...good..do we need the walls then?

Anyways...my post was not to remove the walls the point was to make ZOS do something about this after 1.5 years.
The thing is not the players are letting them in...but the guards (sometimes the players intentionally, some times the players by standing to close to the edge). Lets remember that they fixed the nb jump into the outpost guards.

Either way..this is not intended..and should be investigated by ZOS and fixed for once

Garion

Ashanne wrote: »

So you say anyone can do it...good..do we need the walls then?

Yes because it requires the use of one ultimate and two separate skills + a passive thereafter. So it is possible for everyone but not everyone can do it unless specifically built / specced for it.

ZOS have already dumbed this game down for QQers. Don't see why they should do it any further. The possibility of being jumped on should keep you on your toes - it's a good thing.

Ashanne

This is not qq ..but whateva' makes you sleep well at night

Blackhorne

Ashanne wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

A limited amount of players can get into a keep without breaching in certain circumstances if the conditions are ideal... I think you over exaggerate the impact it has.

I'm not exaggerating...why should only some players do it? why shouldn't we all be able too?

Because those players invested in a certain set of skills. They made choices that compromise other aspects of their character to enhance these aspects. We all could do the same, if we wanted to make the same choices.

Why should 5% of players have that "perk"?

Why should only sorcerors get summons? Why should any class/build choice provide any distinction?

I'm asking for a fair and equal game...

"Fair and equal" does not mean "exactly the same."

Ashanne wrote: »

Anyways...my post was not to remove the walls ...

Ashanne wrote: »

Remove the walls, they are not keeping us safe (until breached) they are just for spending AP on siege and repair kits.

Find out what you actually want to say, remove the sarcasm and snarkiness, and express it clearly and concisely then.

Ashanne

Invested u say ...so a dk using chains its and investment that requires you to make sacrifices? ...so you must agree with all those sorcs exploiting the double mundus stone..cuz they invested money in the set..right?


hehehehe...i am not sure u are actually serious ..5% have that perk tho ~25% of the players are dk so why aren't all dks doing this stuff? because they choose not to...

i just wish more nbs would get into all those keeps...and snipe the snif out of you while you are putting down defensive siege...imagine that investment in the skill (ambush..or not ambush...to snipe or not to snipe ...choices so many choices)

again ..what ever guys make you sleep well at night...

Darlgon

Ashanne wrote: »

This is not qq ..but whateva' makes you sleep well at night

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QQ

Urban Dictionary wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, QQ is not a set of crying eyes. It actually originated with the advent of Warcraft II. On battlenet, you could press ALT+Q+Q to immediately exit the match and program. Thus the term "QQ" was to tell people to just quit because they are unskilled. The term later developed and lost it's origin and is usually mistaken as crying eyes.

Yes, yes it is. Meaning you dont want to spend the "skill" points to get Werewolf, which is avail to all classes to jump. Other people chose to spend a number of valuable, to a lot of us, skill points to get all the passives and the skill set to do this.

Oh, and are you talkling about this:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/180480/pvp-update-june-2015/p1

ZoS_BrianWheeler wrote:

Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.

Notice he is talking about Elder Scrolls and the GATES.

Or this from October 2014?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1320750#Comment_1320750

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We did a scrubbing of keeps back in patch 2 and 3 to try and limit this from occuring. Are you seeing DKs using this to get into the inner keep from the back walls still?

Notice he was talking about getting into the Inner..not on the outer walls.

Elsonso

Bah.

Cyrodiil is designed to be fun. It's a game.

Keeps and outposts in Cyrodiil are purposely designed with blind spots and the surrounding terrain is designed to offer protection from the people in the keep while conferring advantage on the attackers. This forces the defenders to go out and fight the attackers rather than sitting behind the walls lobbing flaming poo at them. Otherwise, it is no fun for the attackers and keeps would change hands much less frequently and require more attackers and better strategies to do it. Not everyone is into that.

Regarding this specific topic... Keeping the attacker out of the keep courtyard is not going to be a high priority if it encourages the fall of the keeps. Even if this is unintended, all of these "exploits" are now interesting siege tactics that ensure that keeps and outposts change hands frequently. As long as all of this does not change things so that keeps change hands too quickly, these remain interesting tactics.

You can never forget that you are also playing against Wrobler and Wheeler. They are the puppet masters, the 4th Alliance, and they like to watch the players squirm. It pleases them.

Zachy_B

Fart salad.

newtinmpls

Forztr wrote: »

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.

Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

Wow, lovely specific example.

I could argue that in game terms - I can see changing this in a future update to represent actual construction to address safety and security issues in this keep.

Elsonso

newtinmpls wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.

Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

Wow, lovely specific example.

I could argue that in game terms - I can see changing this in a future update to represent actual construction to address safety and security issues in this keep.

You make it sound like you want hand rails on the stairs and walls, with lighted Exit signs.

Mojmir

newtinmpls wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.

Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

Wow, lovely specific example.

I could argue that in game terms - I can see changing this in a future update to represent actual construction to address safety and security issues in this keep.

I'm calling OSHA

Darlgon

lordrichter wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.

Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

Wow, lovely specific example.

I could argue that in game terms - I can see changing this in a future update to represent actual construction to address safety and security issues in this keep.

You make it sound like you want hand rails on the stairs and walls, with lighted Exit signs.

Ashanne

Darlgon wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

This is not qq ..but whateva' makes you sleep well at night

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QQ

Urban Dictionary wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, QQ is not a set of crying eyes. It actually originated with the advent of Warcraft II. On battlenet, you could press ALT+Q+Q to immediately exit the match and program. Thus the term "QQ" was to tell people to just quit because they are unskilled. The term later developed and lost it's origin and is usually mistaken as crying eyes.

Yes, yes it is. Meaning you dont want to spend the "skill" points to get Werewolf, which is avail to all classes to jump. Other people chose to spend a number of valuable, to a lot of us, skill points to get all the passives and the skill set to do this.

Oh, and are you talkling about this:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/180480/pvp-update-june-2015/p1

ZoS_BrianWheeler wrote:

Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.

Notice he is talking about Elder Scrolls and the GATES.

Or this from October 2014?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1320750#Comment_1320750

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We did a scrubbing of keeps back in patch 2 and 3 to try and limit this from occuring. Are you seeing DKs using this to get into the inner keep from the back walls still?

Notice he was talking about getting into the Inner..not on the outer walls.

Notice i was talking about inner toooooooooooo..read all plz before talking plz


there is a 2 months old clip posted by teargrants how some dks jumped on chal inner..
I have a clip of a really bored dk on chill a few months back trying to steal a scroll form faragut jumping fropm the outer walls on the inner
so don't tell me you u haven't seen any dk's jumping on inner walls thru the guards...

kevlarto_ESO

Ashanne wrote: »

For good looks and immersion is the answer.
Yep, they are useless, any dk/some nbs (mostly a dc dk with hemorrhoids) can jump in almost any castle/keep. I have proof if anyone still needs this.

Remove the walls, they are not keeping us safe (until breached) they are just for spending AP on siege and repair kits.


@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Those DK's with hemorrhoids , sounds painful, I can see it they try to sit and the pain propels them up to the top of the wall.. LOL ZOS needs prep H for the win,,:)

Darlgon

Ashanne wrote: »

Notice i was talking about inner toooooooooooo..read all plz before talking plz

Umm.. inner is no where mentioned in your original post. Please type more when qqing.

Not that it really matters. Cant leap up into inner unless you can target a player or NPC from a special spot. Why dont you ask for all NPCs that can be targeted from the outer walls to be deleted? You know, those pesky and useless mage guards.

Oh, or maybe make all NPC defenders on keeps untargetable.. yeah.. that would fix it.

Paradox

Ashanne wrote: »

For good looks and immersion is the answer.
Yep, they are useless, any dk/some nbs (mostly a dc dk with hemorrhoids) can jump in almost any castle/keep. I have proof if anyone still needs this.

Remove the walls, they are not keeping us safe (until breached) they are just for spending AP on siege and repair kits.


@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ashanne wrote: »

This is not qq ..but whateva' makes you sleep well at night

If you can't kill a single DK that leaps to your roof, then you're at fault. Expect it. Don't stand near edges that have DKs sitting within..

Welcome to PvP.

newtinmpls

In order to keep this conversation readable, I had to disassemble a three leveled quote. If I have mis-attributed anything, my apologies:

Forztr wrote: »

I must admit I'm getting a bit tired of people getting into the NW corner tower at Aleswell from the plinths on the stairs running up to the mine.

Please knock down the plinths on the steps. Defending Aleswell is tough enough as it is with two sides offering offensive siege places in range of the walls but out of reach of defensive siege.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Wow, lovely specific example.

I could argue that in game terms - I can see changing this in a future update to represent actual construction to address safety and security issues in this keep.

lordrichter wrote: »

You make it sound like you want hand rails on the stairs and walls, with lighted Exit signs.

Oh my god - I work in a hospital with people who I swear want all the walls padded for safety.

But no, my original thought was that IF someone held (or conquered) a keep and found such a potential problem (maybe that's the way they got in) it would make sense to improve it so that after 'getting' the keep they could hold it more effectively.

Darlgon

The OP actually got his wish..

Gratz... ZoS is YOUR Santa Claus..

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2201451#Comment_2201451

wizardpsx

I don't know if any of you know but this game is similar to DAOC (dark age of camelot) realm vs realm.

in that game, stealthers had the ability to climb walls at specific locations in the keep. this allowed stealthers to climb the wall and kill mages that were trying to defend the keep.

it created a dynamic in keep attack/defense instead of 2 group of people casting range attacks like this game because fighters (tank classes) had to roam the walls to protect mages from stealthers.

in that game it was mostly.

-stealthers kill mages
-mages kill everyone if not targeted (but mainly kill tanks)
-tanks kill stealthers


imagine how more dynamic the keep seiges would be if nightblades were allowed a passive to climb walls. it would allow tanky or melee dps characters something to do in seiges in addition to Seige.

defenders are allowed to sneak out of keeps to attack attackers, why should attackers be able to sneak inside keeps. (espeically at designated areas that people knew about)?

just food for thought. that being said, i have more fun with the seiges in this game because most of the time there are people to defend so i am happy

zornyan

I like the above suggestion, maybe a type of siege should be a ladder? Or (can't remember the name?) the tower units that you see in medieval games on wheels, so you would have to load up 15-20 people and have 6 push it to the wall, could be interesting imo.

As said my templar is useless as an attacker as I'm a pure melee build, and people can jump out of keeps (which is unrealistic) I mean surely then people should die from the fall off of a wall?

I can go invisible on the wall, drop down and barely take any damage, yet still stay invisible...

wizardpsx

zornyan wrote: »

I like the above suggestion, maybe a type of siege should be a ladder? Or (can't remember the name?) the tower units that you see in medieval games on wheels, so you would have to load up 15-20 people and have 6 push it to the wall, could be interesting imo.

As said my templar is useless as an attacker as I'm a pure melee build, and people can jump out of keeps (which is unrealistic) I mean surely then people should die from the fall off of a wall?

I can go invisible on the wall, drop down and barely take any damage, yet still stay invisible...

this game's keep design is 1000 times better than DAOC. but they really should of add "seige towers" which allow you to deploy on certain wall sections. it would create a ramp into the keep.

and defenders could go out and set fire to protect the keep. (adds more dynamic keep play then just 10 trebs all hitting a wall)

zornyan

Aye. We need a few more options to open up the possibilities, siege towers, basic ladders, things that mean defenders have to actively patrol a keep looking out for them, whilst leaving some attackers vulnerable for a good chance of breaking it down.

Maybe add the possibility of say 10 people opening a keep door without breaking it down to let the army in?