Did the souless hero fight for all 3 sides?

Sadishist

With Cadwell's Silver/Gold, did the hero play all 3 sides? Or was the last two just an illusion?

Enodoc

They are a "what could have happened" alternative timeline situation. So technically no, the Vestige did not help all three sides. They helped their primary alliance, and also saw what could have happened if they had helped the others instead.

PsychoKRATOS1

Shame there's no intra alliance interaction except cyrodiil.

All nice talking to each other and trading/helping/questing together one minute. Bludgeoning each other in cyrodiil the next.

Enodoc

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Shame there's no intra alliance interaction except cyrodiil.

All nice talking to each other and trading/helping/questing together one minute. Bludgeoning each other in cyrodiil the next.

True, but it is planned for the future, starting with dungeon groups and expanding from there.

Sadishist

Enodoc wrote: »

They are a "what could have happened" alternative timeline situation. So technically no, the Vestige did not help all three sides. They helped their primary alliance, and also saw what could have happened if they had helped the others instead.

According to Cadwell. But according to Meridia, she says it's a real spell that makes people there think you're part of their alliance. So Cadwell says it's fake, Meridia says it's real.

Enodoc

Sadishist wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

They are a "what could have happened" alternative timeline situation. So technically no, the Vestige did not help all three sides. They helped their primary alliance, and also saw what could have happened if they had helped the others instead.

According to Cadwell. But according to Meridia, she says it's a real spell that makes people there think you're part of their alliance. So Cadwell says it's fake, Meridia says it's real.

When does she say that? But the alternate timeline allows for this anyway. In the alternate timeline, you are a member of the other alliance, because it's an alternate timeline.

Sadishist

Enodoc wrote: »

Sadishist wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

They are a "what could have happened" alternative timeline situation. So technically no, the Vestige did not help all three sides. They helped their primary alliance, and also saw what could have happened if they had helped the others instead.

According to Cadwell. But according to Meridia, she says it's a real spell that makes people there think you're part of their alliance. So Cadwell says it's fake, Meridia says it's real.

When does she say that? But the alternate timeline allows for this anyway. In the alternate timeline, you are a member of the other alliance, because it's an alternate timeline.

Meridia says that right after you beat Molag Bal and talk to her in her domain.

Enodoc

Sadishist wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Sadishist wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

They are a "what could have happened" alternative timeline situation. So technically no, the Vestige did not help all three sides. They helped their primary alliance, and also saw what could have happened if they had helped the others instead.

According to Cadwell. But according to Meridia, she says it's a real spell that makes people there think you're part of their alliance. So Cadwell says it's fake, Meridia says it's real.

When does she say that? But the alternate timeline allows for this anyway. In the alternate timeline, you are a member of the other alliance, because it's an alternate timeline.

Meridia says that right after you beat Molag Bal and talk to her in her domain.

What she says there doesn't really counter what Cadwell says, as she doesn't say how it works. She says:
It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe.
That's technically true, because it plonks you in an alternate timeline, and in the alternate timeline, your primary timeline is known to you, but unknown to the other characters, hence your true nature is hidden.

Ranique

I think a good way of setting this is to see the end of ESO as another "warp in the west".
To explain what that is. It is a way to solve an issue. At then end of daggerfall, the player could choose from several outcomes. He could help Mannimarco become a god. He could help the empire win the war and he could help bring the empire to it's knees. In the game it is very much limited to a single choice. But that posed an issue for future ES-games, so they decided that all events happened ina magical event called the warp of the west.

In ESO, there is no real need for a warp of the west. The three alliances will still be at war at the end and the actions of the player don't change that balance to any other outcome than a standoff. The player stops Molag Bal and the planemeld and so there is no need. But as we have this magical event, it can be used. It is how different events can happen at the same time all at once. With a "warp to the west" they will happen all three anyways, so it is also easy to experience them.

ThisOnePosts

Yes, it's the same hero. As Meridia said, your "true nature" is hidden from them so they don't see you as a foe as you are the hero of other lands as well.

Cadwell doesn't outright say it's fake or "what could have been" but more so he talks about experiencing the other alliances. With what Cadwell says, what Meridia says, and what seems like the most reasonable angle.. is that the same hero experiences all 3 alliances just that let's say you start as AD, you are not perceived as a threat and that is hidden when you enter EP and DC zones.

Hence, you can help all 3 + areas in Cyrodiil and get the title "Tamriel Hero". This is all the same character that we use to achieve this.

BullNetch

Is the hero of ESO the soul shriven or the soul shriven force?

Is it a group of 12+ or just 1 man/woman?

Does your charactert represent the leader of the soul shriven?

Your character is an undaunted, clears out public dungeons, and does a lot of stuff in a group.

In future games how will the Soul Shriven be referenced? During the Three Banners war, the Moon Hallowed Soul Shriven(whatever) lead an army of soul shriven warriors he freed from Coldharbour back into Coldharbour to get revenge on Molag Bal?

Enodoc

BullNetch wrote: »

Is the hero of ESO the soul shriven or the soul shriven force?

Is it a group of 12+ or just 1 man/woman?

Does your charactert represent the leader of the soul shriven?

Your character is an undaunted, clears out public dungeons, and does a lot of stuff in a group.

In future games how will the Soul Shriven be referenced? During the Three Banners war, the Moon Hallowed Soul Shriven(whatever) lead an army of soul shriven warriors he freed from Coldharbour back into Coldharbour to get revenge on Molag Bal?

The One and the Many is a hard thing to reconcile, but I am considering it to work something like this:

• Anything in the Harborage/Molag Bal/Main Story questline is all about you, and only you. You are the Vestige, the one who stopped Molag Bal and ended the Planemeld. History will refer to you as "the Vestige" or "the Soulless One".
• Anything in the Fighters/Mages Guild questlines is about you, and only you. You are the one who
  Mages Guild
  helped Shalidor recover Eyevea from Sheogorath
  Fighters Guild
  destroyed the Mortuum Vivicus and laid the soul of Jofnir to rest
  and history will again refer to that with reference to one person.
• Anything in the Alliance Story questlines is mostly about you. You (and only you) are the Champion of your Alliance, as you (and only you) are the one who brings the alliances together, but the Others are members of the alliance just like you, and help you out along the way.
• Anything that is done in a group would be considered "a group of adventurers [cleared a dungeon / saved Craglorn / etc]".
• When you go back to Coldharbour, it's a cross between the Main Story and the Alliance Story. You (and only you) are the Champion and the One who will end the Planemeld, but the Others are adventurers who may join you as you go.

Essentially, there is nothing to say that the Other players you encounter in Your world are also Soul Shriven, as your only interaction with them is during situations where that information is not relevant. The only time it is called into question is when they die and can be resurrected. If they are Soul Shriven, then you are still the only Soul Shriven in contact with the Prophet, and the rest are just Soul Shriven Adventurers who also escaped from Coldharbour in some other manner; if they aren't, then you are the only Soul Shriven, and everyone else is an Adventurer who you happen to encounter during your travels.

Elsterchen

With the end of the main story (getting rid of molag bal) you get your soul back.

Hence, you are not the soulshriven anymore when entering cadwells silver/gold.

Enodoc

Elsterchen wrote: »

With the end of the main story (getting rid of molag bal) you get your soul back.

Hence, you are not the soulshriven anymore when entering cadwells silver/gold.

Not directly, but due to its alternate timeline nature, Cadwell does say that "Even familiar faces will see you as a soulless drifter, lost in an unfamiliar land."

AshTal

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

Shunravi

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

Shunravi

Ranique wrote: »

I think a good way of setting this is to see the end of ESO as another "warp in the west".
To explain what that is. It is a way to solve an issue. At then end of daggerfall, the player could choose from several outcomes. He could help Mannimarco become a god. He could help the empire win the war and he could help bring the empire to it's knees. In the game it is very much limited to a single choice. But that posed an issue for future ES-games, so they decided that all events happened ina magical event called the warp of the west.

In ESO, there is no real need for a warp of the west. The three alliances will still be at war at the end and the actions of the player don't change that balance to any other outcome than a standoff. The player stops Molag Bal and the planemeld and so there is no need. But as we have this magical event, it can be used. It is how different events can happen at the same time all at once. With a "warp to the west" they will happen all three anyways, so it is also easy to experience them.

There is no need for another dragonbreak, true. But there is (unconfirmed) cause. The soulburst and planemeld are fantastically dramatic events. And they are brought about by what is essentially a direct attack on the god of time.

Shunravi

Shunravi wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

I should also add, Molag Bal is the Lord of domination and brutality, true. But he is also the Lord of Schemes. Sure his goal is the planemeld, but I also think they chose him as the antagonist because he opens the floodgates of chaos, which allows for expansions and the banner war. He has plans beyond his plan. And they involve the vestige. So, does he really want to kill us off?

Also, tributes to Molag Bal are often sacrifices. What if everything we kill is actually a sacrifice to him? I mean, he is the god of imprisonment and yet we escaped him so relatively easy. What if as soul shriven, we are actually his agents in Mundus unaware of our purpose? Look at our other experiences with him in other games...

And, yes, its lazy writing because it was to late to program new sabotage quests (or to expensive or whatever) and the community was up in arms about being limited to faction territory.

PsychoKRATOS1

Shunravi wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

I should also add, Molag Bal is the Lord of domination and brutality, true. But he is also the Lord of Schemes. Sure his goal is the planemeld, but I also think they chose him as the antagonist because he opens the floodgates of chaos, which allows for expansions and the banner war. He has plans beyond his plan. And they involve the vestige. So, does he really want to kill us off?

Also, tributes to Molag Bal are often sacrifices. What if everything we kill is actually a sacrifice to him? I mean, he is the god of imprisonment and yet we escaped him so relatively easy. What if as soul shriven, we are actually his agents in Mundus unaware of our purpose? Look at our other experiences with him in other games...

And, yes, its lazy writing because it was to late to program new sabotage quests (or to expensive or whatever) and the community was up in arms about being limited to faction territory.

Too deep. It's simpler to just think.... you escaped, you fought mannimarco, you sacrificed a companion, severely weakened molag bal and got your soul back. The end. The story is too short.

The cadwell gold and silver don't include a higher tier coldharbour or a higher tier collaboration with galerion. They just let you experience the core story of each alliance "through the eyes of the enemy" - what if you landed here instead.

I guess you did fight for them but it's equally feasible that you "experience it" in someone else's body. You were told that no one would know of your exploits. No previous ally would recognise you, as you. The fact that you can play and control the guy is just for gameplay

Just a way for a developer to give you more content without really doing anything. Which is awesome. Getting to explore portions of each province. Brings me back to daggerfall. Would be nice to have an expansion, sommerset, solitude/whiterun (I think high rock was all there?) Orsinium, swampier parts of black Marsh.

Alucardo

I like the fact you can play through the other alliances quest, but does it not seem a bit flawed to any one else? You're basically getting free insight to their war tactics, politics, and other secrets that could severely weaken their alliance.

Surragard

Alucardo wrote: »

I like the fact you can play through the other alliances quest, but does it not seem a bit flawed to any one else? You're basically getting free insight to their war tactics, politics, and other secrets that could severely weaken their alliance.

That's the point though. Meridia is sending you in to learn about the other 2 alliances. As a Daedric Prince, Meridia could care less about the little politics and such of the alliances. However, if you can learn enough to understand the other 2 alliances and become their champion, you can see what might have been and possibly find a way to avoid the conflict.

Shunravi

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

I should also add, Molag Bal is the Lord of domination and brutality, true. But he is also the Lord of Schemes. Sure his goal is the planemeld, but I also think they chose him as the antagonist because he opens the floodgates of chaos, which allows for expansions and the banner war. He has plans beyond his plan. And they involve the vestige. So, does he really want to kill us off?

Also, tributes to Molag Bal are often sacrifices. What if everything we kill is actually a sacrifice to him? I mean, he is the god of imprisonment and yet we escaped him so relatively easy. What if as soul shriven, we are actually his agents in Mundus unaware of our purpose? Look at our other experiences with him in other games...

And, yes, its lazy writing because it was to late to program new sabotage quests (or to expensive or whatever) and the community was up in arms about being limited to faction territory.

Too deep. It's simpler to just think.... you escaped, you fought mannimarco, you sacrificed a companion, severely weakened molag bal and got your soul back. The end. The story is too short.

The cadwell gold and silver don't include a higher tier coldharbour or a higher tier collaboration with galerion. They just let you experience the core story of each alliance "through the eyes of the enemy" - what if you landed here instead.

I guess you did fight for them but it's equally feasible that you "experience it" in someone else's body. You were told that no one would know of your exploits. No previous ally would recognise you, as you. The fact that you can play and control the guy is just for gameplay

Just a way for a developer to give you more content without really doing anything. Which is awesome. Getting to explore portions of each province. Brings me back to daggerfall. Would be nice to have an expansion, sommerset, solitude/whiterun (I think high rock was all there?) Orsinium, swampier parts of black Marsh.

yes, but i dont like thinking simply about tes lore

PsychoKRATOS1

Shunravi wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

I should also add, Molag Bal is the Lord of domination and brutality, true. But he is also the Lord of Schemes. Sure his goal is the planemeld, but I also think they chose him as the antagonist because he opens the floodgates of chaos, which allows for expansions and the banner war. He has plans beyond his plan. And they involve the vestige. So, does he really want to kill us off?

Also, tributes to Molag Bal are often sacrifices. What if everything we kill is actually a sacrifice to him? I mean, he is the god of imprisonment and yet we escaped him so relatively easy. What if as soul shriven, we are actually his agents in Mundus unaware of our purpose? Look at our other experiences with him in other games...

And, yes, its lazy writing because it was to late to program new sabotage quests (or to expensive or whatever) and the community was up in arms about being limited to faction territory.

Too deep. It's simpler to just think.... you escaped, you fought mannimarco, you sacrificed a companion, severely weakened molag bal and got your soul back. The end. The story is too short.

The cadwell gold and silver don't include a higher tier coldharbour or a higher tier collaboration with galerion. They just let you experience the core story of each alliance "through the eyes of the enemy" - what if you landed here instead.

I guess you did fight for them but it's equally feasible that you "experience it" in someone else's body. You were told that no one would know of your exploits. No previous ally would recognise you, as you. The fact that you can play and control the guy is just for gameplay

Just a way for a developer to give you more content without really doing anything. Which is awesome. Getting to explore portions of each province. Brings me back to daggerfall. Would be nice to have an expansion, sommerset, solitude/whiterun (I think high rock was all there?) Orsinium, swampier parts of black Marsh.

yes, but i dont like thinking simply about tes lore

As interesting and immersive as the lore is. None of it actually happened. It's up to an individual's interpretation, if you want to believe the souless hero fought all over, believe it, it really doesn't make much difference. Unlike real life, there's dragons (behave, your (future) mother in law is not a dragon) magic and "planes of oblivion". This game is the only one that mentions molag bal and mannimarco working together, I also think im correct in saying no pregame lore mentions a planemeld machination either, You'd have thought mannimarco would work closer with the soul cairn. Smart writing, if you can call it that, covers for this, when varen tells you "no one will know what we did for them, no one will know how close to destruction they really were" which pretty much covers why no one wrote about it. Just remember, from skyrim, no game historian is going to write about how the dragonborn manipulated paint brushes to get to out of reach places. Or used a wooden board to bypass walls.

Shunravi

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Caldwell gold and silver can't have happened if time travel was possible then Molag Bal would just go back in time and kill you at the start.As many of the people you meet are dead it's not just going in disguise and as you have no option to screw up your enemies it's not even you doing it. It appears to be a dream of what could have been if you had been born in another faction.
Personally I think it's lazy story telling why write new content just play through the other content which you have to to get to Vet 12

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Travel

I should also add, Molag Bal is the Lord of domination and brutality, true. But he is also the Lord of Schemes. Sure his goal is the planemeld, but I also think they chose him as the antagonist because he opens the floodgates of chaos, which allows for expansions and the banner war. He has plans beyond his plan. And they involve the vestige. So, does he really want to kill us off?

Also, tributes to Molag Bal are often sacrifices. What if everything we kill is actually a sacrifice to him? I mean, he is the god of imprisonment and yet we escaped him so relatively easy. What if as soul shriven, we are actually his agents in Mundus unaware of our purpose? Look at our other experiences with him in other games...

And, yes, its lazy writing because it was to late to program new sabotage quests (or to expensive or whatever) and the community was up in arms about being limited to faction territory.

Too deep. It's simpler to just think.... you escaped, you fought mannimarco, you sacrificed a companion, severely weakened molag bal and got your soul back. The end. The story is too short.

The cadwell gold and silver don't include a higher tier coldharbour or a higher tier collaboration with galerion. They just let you experience the core story of each alliance "through the eyes of the enemy" - what if you landed here instead.

I guess you did fight for them but it's equally feasible that you "experience it" in someone else's body. You were told that no one would know of your exploits. No previous ally would recognise you, as you. The fact that you can play and control the guy is just for gameplay

Just a way for a developer to give you more content without really doing anything. Which is awesome. Getting to explore portions of each province. Brings me back to daggerfall. Would be nice to have an expansion, sommerset, solitude/whiterun (I think high rock was all there?) Orsinium, swampier parts of black Marsh.

yes, but i dont like thinking simply about tes lore

As interesting and immersive as the lore is. None of it actually happened. It's up to an individual's interpretation, if you want to believe the souless hero fought all over, believe it, it really doesn't make much difference. Unlike real life, there's dragons (behave, your (future) mother in law is not a dragon) magic and "planes of oblivion". This game is the only one that mentions molag bal and mannimarco working together, I also think im correct in saying no pregame lore mentions a planemeld machination either, You'd have thought mannimarco would work closer with the soul cairn. Smart writing, if you can call it that, covers for this, when varen tells you "no one will know what we did for them, no one will know how close to destruction they really were" which pretty much covers why no one wrote about it. Just remember, from skyrim, no game historian is going to write about how the dragonborn manipulated paint brushes to get to out of reach places. Or used a wooden board to bypass walls.

@PsychoKRATOS1 Exactly! its as simple or as complex as you want it. The lore has always heavily relied on the unreliable narrator for past accounts. And to give another example where i go complex; in the Oblivion Shivering Isles dlc, the Hero of Kavatch goes to the Madgods realm where we learn a whole bunch of lore about Sheogorath and eventually take on his mantle. OR the Madgod decides to toy with one of the most powerful and influential mortals at the time and decides to play into their kleptomania and megalomania and drive them insane by making them think they are a literal god. Either take it face value or interpret it from what you view in the lore.