Hotfix nirn immediately, please.

Baphomet

Seeing that it has already been announced that there is a fix to this, please do hot fix so that we can get a more balanced game right away.

Why screw the paying customers over by withholding it until late August? It doesn't make any bloody sense!

Would you guys buys your own product, if the provider gave you this kind of service? Just a rethorical question to contemplate.

All the best and cheers!

ItsRejectz

Soon

Defilted

Would you like them to roll out a untested fix faster and experience more defects in the game? I bet not. Please let ZOS test/test and test again until they get it right. If they delay an extra month because of new found issues then I am all for it.

I work for a software company that services 1000's of business around the world. I can tell you that proper testing and delaying to make sure it is correct is the better path.

Baphomet

How do you explain how other MMO developers push out hotfixes for similar issues within days or weeks?

smacx250

From their comments, it may be that they intend the nirn fix to be released along with other changes they are making (e.g., the decrease to damage received in Cyrodiil), presumably as a more balanced change than if the nirn fix was released on its own. We'll have to see what else ends up in the patch notes when it hits the PTS (said to be at 50+ pages, so it's a lot more than just nirn).

Zanen

Pretty obvious nirn was supposed to be a stopgap to try to balance magic and stamina damage in pve/pvp, sorcs in particular needed toned down in pvp and still need buffs in pve.

They aren't fixing it until they make a significant balance pass because it's working more or less as they intended.

Here's hoping they can get all the broken stuff fixed on PTS so a legitimate balance pass can actually be made before IC drops.

Baphomet

There's supposed to be a hard cap for mitigation at 50%, right?

Nirn far exceeds that hard cap, and that's a bug in my book - can't be working as intended.

Alcast

Baphomet wrote: »

How do you explain how other MMO developers push out hotfixes for similar issues within days or weeks?

Because it was/is working as intended.

BUT so many ppl QQed they had to change it but they are not really in a rush, like always >:>

kevlarto_ESO

Sorry ZOS only hot fixes anything related to xp gain, any broken and exploitable game mechanic will be fixed in the next big update at the end of August. In all my years of mmo play I have never seen a company that will not hot fix exploits and things effect the player base in such a negative way.. /sigh

trimsic_ESO

Yes hot fix nirn as soon as possible please, because otherwise sorcs are too weak:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2057055/#Comment_2057055

Cinbri

Sorcs can't one-shotting enemy, definetly must be fixed.

nothing2591

had a 19k frag crit on my sorc yesterday and thats with only 2,2k sp 35k max magicka 100cp in thaumaturge 30in crit dmg and you want to nerf nirn ? :O

k2blader

Agree nirn should have been fixed as soon as it possibly could have.

It's better to give people an accurate idea of what magicka damage actually is than nurture the incorrect expectation among nirn-users that the numbers they see today are reasonable.

Many nirn users will cry. But they ought to realize folks who haven't "taken advantage of" nirn have seen/experienced these kinds of numbers all along for 3+ months and have learned to adapt, just as people have versus very high, less easily mitigable physical damage.

To them I'll say: Don't cry to nerf classes because you chose to play exploitively and need to learn to block, dodge roll, and reflect magicka builds' damage.

Regardless of the many excuses I've seen folks make, the playing field is clearly not even right now due to nirn. Anyone who denies that is just being silly and probably falls into the category mentioned above.

I'm not saying damage numbers aren't too high at the moment. But people should really throw away the crutch and train themselves now. In 1.7 everyone's survivability should be higher, but I don't want to see "Nerf ____ class cuz it hits me 7k alls da time!!!11"

[edit] typo

k2blader

I mean, just look at the typical replies on this thread: people acting as if it was "intended." When Zeni very clearly said it is not intended.

Hey Zeni, just saying-- this is what happens when you don't fix important stuff very quickly. You create an environment of false expectation; where people think they're skilled when they're not (as much as they think anyway), and then they feel entitled to cry on the forums until their feelings are "dealt with appropriately."

trimsic_ESO

nothing2591 wrote: »

had a 19k frag crit on my sorc yesterday and thats with only 2,2k sp 35k max magicka 100cp in thaumaturge 30in crit dmg and you want to nerf nirn ? :O

Yes hot fix nirn please, because sorcs still can't one shot people.

King Bozo

Working as intended.

GideonxJura

Maybe build a melee class and fight man to man then? Maybe this is a way to counter those that want to do nothing more than hang back and get easy kills. Nirn is fine, considering all the buffs and escapes that sorcs have.

trimsic_ESO

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Joy_Division

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Would you care to explain how magicka damage would be "out of control" relative to stamina-based damage?

Mr_Nobody

Joy_Division wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Would you care to explain how magicka damage would be "out of control" relative to stamina-based damage?

~ Because 70% Armor Penetration that nearly every stamina user abuses, is not out of control.

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ToRelax

nothing2591 wrote: »

had a 19k frag crit on my sorc yesterday and thats with only 2,2k sp 35k max magicka 100cp in thaumaturge 30in crit dmg and you want to nerf nirn ? :O

So you hit someone who didn't cap his spell resist via nirnhoned and use that as an argument that nirnhoned is not too strong?

Lava_Croft

ToRelax wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

had a 19k frag crit on my sorc yesterday and thats with only 2,2k sp 35k max magicka 100cp in thaumaturge 30in crit dmg and you want to nerf nirn ? :O

So you hit someone who didn't cap his spell resist via nirnhoned and use that as an argument that nirnhoned is not too strong?

Too bad you can't fire those Crystal Shards from stealth at 50 meters distance.

Leandor

Joy_Division wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Would you care to explain how magicka damage would be "out of control" relative to stamina-based damage?

It will be out of control. I play one of the hated stamina nightblades (which is now at least temporarily banked) and I refused to use nirnhoned for a long time. There was a point where sorcerers were one-shotting me with crystal fragments and where ambush/prox-nightblades did the same in a "one-two-shot" (those two come so close together that it is a one-shot even if two abilities where used).

Now I do realize that with my setup (21k HP), I open myself to such play but it is still unreasonable. I have then crafted two (!) gold pieces with nirnhoned. My full medium armor nightblade then achieved ~18k spell resistance which initially helped a lot. I was able to survive a single cockup against most sorcs (missed dodge on fragment, let him come to near while procced, etc) and the nightblades needed at least an animation cancelled concealed weapon in addition to the prox bomb.

That lasted for about a week. Literally. After that, I was back to start, same things happened again, because magicka builds started to abuse spell penetration. With the currently common levels of spell penetration, my spell resist is effectively 0 again.

With the change to nirnhoned, a full set of 7 nirnhoned pieces will give you approximately the same spell resistance that I have now with two pieces (even less. I now have a ~50% bonus, in future the maximum with 7 pieces of nirnhoned will be ~30%).

In essence, that means that magicka will be in the same position as physical with club/maul equipped. 100% penetration. GG, ZOS.

The only solution to this is to completely remove the penetration attribute for both, physical and magicka attacks.

Rylana

Anyone that has ever experienced Lyzara's crystal frag or prox det would know OP, that if you do this before they apply the damage reduction changes coming at the end of august.... it will mean I will literally one shot just about anyone, and not just the people not wearing nirn.

18k frags, 20k dets? Its sort of a thing, seriously.

Lava_Croft

Leandor wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Would you care to explain how magicka damage would be "out of control" relative to stamina-based damage?

It will be out of control. I play one of the hated stamina nightblades (which is now at least temporarily banked) and I refused to use nirnhoned for a long time. There was a point where sorcerers were one-shotting me with crystal fragments and where ambush/prox-nightblades did the same in a "one-two-shot" (those two come so close together that it is a one-shot even if two abilities where used).

Now I do realize that with my setup (21k HP), I open myself to such play but it is still unreasonable. I have then crafted two (!) gold pieces with nirnhoned. My full medium armor nightblade then achieved ~18k spell resistance which initially helped a lot. I was able to survive a single cockup against most sorcs (missed dodge on fragment, let him come to near while procced, etc) and the nightblades needed at least an animation cancelled concealed weapon in addition to the prox bomb.

That lasted for about a week. Literally. After that, I was back to start, same things happened again, because magicka builds started to abuse spell penetration. With the currently common levels of spell penetration, my spell resist is effectively 0 again.

With the change to nirnhoned, a full set of 7 nirnhoned pieces will give you approximately the same spell resistance that I have now with two pieces (even less. I now have a ~50% bonus, in future the maximum with 7 pieces of nirnhoned will be ~30%).

In essence, that means that magicka will be in the same position as physical with club/maul equipped. 100% penetration. GG, ZOS.

The only solution to this is to completely remove the penetration attribute for both, physical and magicka attacks.

I think the only penetration ZOS ever got to work correctly was penetrating my wallet.

atomikrej

Ok how about proximity detonation or inevitable detonation, dawnbreaker of smiting, meteor and plenty others. I wear 3 piece nirn and medium armor it's not enough to offset a lot of peoples spell penetration. I'd say I die equally from magic damage and stamina damage and often it's instagibbed with not a chance to react. It doesn't help playing in a high latency environment (australia). Honestly game is quite ridiculous ATM. It was better back 9 months ago when you were crashing to desktop 6 times an hour. At least it felt like an alliance war. Now it's more like fps.
Nerfing nirn is good seeing it's bugged but they need to do it same time as the decrease to damage in cyrodil takes effect, not before.

Leandor

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

<snip>
The only solution to this is to completely remove the penetration attribute for both, physical and magicka attacks.

I think the only penetration ZOS ever got to work correctly was penetrating my wallet.

I have to disagree. There is another part of me that feels penetrated while playing in Cyrodiil currently...

Septimus_Magna

The entire armor/spell resists and penetration needs to be fixed. Why even spec for armor/spell resist if everything gets ignored anyway? Light armor builds basically have no mitigation when they get attacked in Cyrodiil.

@Baphomet going over the hard cap wont increase your mitigation over 50%. The reason some players do this is to reduce the penetration and still get 50% damage mitigation. Lets say someone most dps builds have 12k spell penetration, you would need hard cap spell resist + 12k to still get the 50% damage mitigation.

slowassferrariub17_ESO

nothing2591 wrote: »

had a 19k frag crit on my sorc yesterday and thats with only 2,2k sp 35k max magicka 100cp in thaumaturge 30in crit dmg and you want to nerf nirn ? :O

don't assume everyone uses nirn.

Docmandu

I'm sure the OP making this post will cause ZOS to immediately drop everything and make a hotfix out of it !

trimsic_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I always thought that nirn was working as intended, as a mean to mitigate magical damage, especially in Cyrodiil. Indeed, if nirn did not exist, magical damage would be out of control, and when you remember that the best defensive skills are class skills using magicka, you realize that magicka builds are extremely powerful both in attack and in defense.

But I heard Erik say it was not working as intended and it will be tuned down in the next big patch. I hope the combat team has something in its plans to make sure that magicka builds will not be even more powerful than they already are.

Would you care to explain how magicka damage would be "out of control" relative to stamina-based damage?

I guess you are refering to morphed versions of NB's class skills, wrecking blow, and snipe, which are insanely over powered. Yes these abilities are out of control, especially in the hands of a NB owing to its passive buffs. They should be fixed.

What I'm refering to is damage dealt by magicka abilities in general. We can start with ultimates that deal magical damage, and therefore leverage the spell penetration, which is the most important passive stat that magicka builds will max out. And of course we can add in the discussion crystal fragment, the Jesus beam, whip slash, and many many other class skill abilities using magicka.

And to be honest, you should add that the level of spell penetration magicka builds have largely compensates the spell resistance granted by nirnhorned stuff. If nirn is nerf'd then the game will turn into a huge magicka-fest.