the 50% in cyrodiil my thoughts

Kloud

I feel like Zos really took the easy way out I'm this one.
Instead of just fixing certain skills that hit really hard such as frags, wrecking blow and snipe and just nerfing sorcs shields a bit. they went and made shields 30% more weaker across the bored that kinda screws skills like blazing shield and ing shield for templars and dks and what's the point of the champ system making you 25% stronger when it means nothing when the 30% of it is naught. I think they should of looked at individual skills and really just tweeked skills here and there instead of messing up alot if skills that already didn't do enough damage. And they had plenty of time imo. Any thoughts any one agree or disagree?

Rakshat

You must be new here:> Zos simply does not tweak a skill so it's more in line with other skills. That doesn't happen. There is no 'equality' between classes either. Everyone gets their time to shine on a rotating basis and templar's time has passed:> So get in line and wait for your turn!

Kloud

I'm not a templar I'm a Stam dk/nb

Vizier

Kloud wrote: »

I'm not a templar I'm a Stam dk/nb

Oh, well DK's already had their day from release to 1.6. Stam NB had theirs in 1.6 too so guess where you are on the carousel.


I agree with you though that the 50% reduction is ill conceived and stupid balancing action. Seriously going to blank up PvP IMO.

Rakshat

I think 50% reduction is their band-aid from the CP grinders who run around one-shooting people.

timidobserver

Rakshat wrote: »

You must be new here:> Zos simply does not tweak a skill so it's more in line with other skills. That doesn't happen. There is no 'equality' between classes either. Everyone gets their time to shine on a rotating basis and templar's time has passed:> So get in line and wait for your turn!

The Templar shine period was rather weak when compared to DK Vamps at launch and the current sorcs.

Kloud

I'm not complaining about shining lol I just think they could of done a better job on actually balancing skills instead of an all around damage reduction

Trollwut

Rakshat wrote: »

You must be new here:> Zos simply does not tweak a skill so it's more in line with other skills. That doesn't happen. There is no 'equality' between classes either. Everyone gets their time to shine on a rotating basis and templar's time has passed:> So get in line and wait for your turn!

This is not ZeniMax in particular.

This is a simple and normal change in MMOs.
First of all, balancing is a little difficult (not impossible!) and a totally balanced game would also bring the boring-element into the game.

With imbalanced gameplay you can also see which mechanics/skills are overused and prefered. You can actually get "the meta" out of the game by being unbalanced. And the meta can be changed, as we got that some times in ESO.

See WoW: They simplified all mechanics to oblivion and did it ever was balanced? No and it has reasons.

There is a game developer channel on YouTube getting around with these topics. Maybe I'm not lazy and will look for it.

Kloud

There's like 4 skills that hit to hard and needed adjustment other then that the game was find and I mean slight adjustment nothing major to justify a 30% damage nerfs that is working against the champ system they created

BigTone

Imo giving players the physical resistance counter to nirn would fix all of the insta-gibbing. I don't get one shot by magicka builds. This and removing armor/spell penetration

eliisra

Kloud wrote: »

There's like 4 skills that hit to hard and needed adjustment other then that the game was find and I mean slight adjustment nothing major to justify a 30% damage nerfs that is working against the champ system they created

It's more like 40 skills hitting to hard.

The only thing not hitting to hard is most magicka based attacks on players stacking nirnhoned. Because they mitigate 50% of the dmg.

But if nirn worked as indented you see normal moderate magicka "spam" like Swallow Soul, Whip or even Dark flare doing crazy dmg to.

I guess we might have different opinions what that is. But personally, I dont think instant or close to instant cast skills, should take roughly half your enemies health pool. Than PvP becomes all about landing the first stun and win.

Not disagreeing with you tho. Totally get the Blazing Shield dilemma. The explosion wont do more dmg than a light attack, next patch lol. Would be best to balance all skills individually, instead of cutting all shields, heals and dps with a certain %. Also fixing these damn bugs and adjust spell/armor penetration values.

But maybe ZoS plans to do that to? Going to be all fanboy now, give them the benefit of the doubt and blah blah, wait forever to see what happens

ToRelax

You can not balance the game when you let global problems like infinite resourcce, champion system imbalance (both between builds and ranks) or zergballs persist while adjusting individual skills. That would be treating symptoms and possibly create new imbalances before and after you adress the real problems.
And that's exactly what they do, treating symptoms.

ThyIronFist

It's just a lazy fix and it's obvious they don't know what to do, but I think that's been clear since day one. They don't care about PvP balance, never did.

This change will make zerging even more powerful and with the damage reduction, it's going to be even more difficult for smaller groups to wipe larger groups. The ridiculously low TTK will hopefully get fixed but all they needed to do is bring back soft caps and nerf skills like snipe, not come up with this band-aid fix.

Septimus_Magna

ToRelax wrote: »

You can not balance the game when you let global problems like infinite resourcce, champion system imbalance (both between builds and ranks) or zergballs persist while adjusting individual skills. That would be treating symptoms and possibly create new imbalances before and after you adress the real problems.
And that's exactly what they do, treating symptoms.

I agree the CS creates a huge gap between normal players and grinders who spend 10 hours a day in CWC. The damage reduction of the Cyrodiil Battle debuff decreases the

The systems that are designed to discourage zergs are often not used properly, if you hit a stacked zerg with a couple fire ballista's and a meat bag at the same time most of them usually die instantly. If every siege is fires randomly its easy to heal and purge through the damage.

Proximity Detonation will be modified to be a more effective anti-zerg skill. The damage will scale up if you hit more people with the explosion. I think this could be step in the right direction but we will have to wait and see.

I would also like to see some kind of damage/healing debuff if more than 30 people of the same alliance are inside a 10m radius of eachother.

Kloud

I like the champ system I only have 265 champ points but still I like it but just nerfing damage across the board is not what zos should have done I mean if some one really waste all there time grinding champ points and put a ton of there time into doing it they deserve the benefit from doing so imo and what zos does In there so called balancing is destroy the system they built. people can rage all they want too about how the champ system is unbalanced it's still there and Apart of the game and no one forces people that hate it to play. I don't like the fact that new players are at such a disadvantage my self. But still there's not 40 skills that needed adjusted just a few and pvp would of been fine they nerfed nirnhoned to much and cut all damage and shields by 30% so shields on the sorcs end really didn't get touched at all. The only changes that really needed to be made was nerf sorcs and nightblades damage by 15% lower hardened ward by 15% lower the damage on wrecking blow some and nerf nirnhoned by 20% and put a psy damage equal to nirn and fix snipe to where it can't hit 20k. Magic builds would be fine and fix lag and keep all the other changes they made to dodge roll and bolt and I think block got hit a bit to hard cutting Stam regeneration to 40% while blocking would of been the better option there I believe.

ToRelax

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

You can not balance the game when you let global problems like infinite resourcce, champion system imbalance (both between builds and ranks) or zergballs persist while adjusting individual skills. That would be treating symptoms and possibly create new imbalances before and after you adress the real problems.
And that's exactly what they do, treating symptoms.

I agree the CS creates a huge gap between normal players and grinders who spend 10 hours a day in CWC. The damage reduction of the Cyrodiil Battle debuff decreases the

The systems that are designed to discourage zergs are often not used properly, if you hit a stacked zerg with a couple fire ballista's and a meat bag at the same time most of them usually die instantly. If every siege is fires randomly its easy to heal and purge through the damage.

Proximity Detonation will be modified to be a more effective anti-zerg skill. The damage will scale up if you hit more people with the explosion. I think this could be step in the right direction but we will have to wait and see.

I would also like to see some kind of damage/healing debuff if more than 30 people of the same alliance are inside a 10m radius of eachother.

Not only does it sound unlikely to me that they'll get that one right, they are also reducing damage across the board and reducing the damage of detonation. I highly doubt it will be what some people here seem to hope for.

Bane_of_Fringe

Heard that, even after you nerfed the cost of blocking, you still had permablockers. Well *** no more, because we've completely cut regen while blocking! Having trouble getting insta-gibbed for 30k+ dps? You have no more need to worry, we've reduced damage from 20% to 50% in Cyrodiil. What's that? Magicka builds literally can not block anymore whatsoever? Who cares, we fixed the permablock, *** no more. ??? Your magicka NB regen build has gone from ***-tier damage to practically no damage? Well we had to deal with those people exploiting damage stacks some way.

ZoS is pretty much pissing on us and claiming it's rain. Also, if you think prox det damage is going to increase next patch, keep in mind that a 24-26k prox det in PvE will hit around 18k on somebody with 8k spell resistance in PvP right now. That same prox det will be hitting for 12k or so in the next patch, and the damage will scale on how much damage you have done most likely. So unless you're doing 20k+ damage currently on players in PvP, you will not be seeing the same damage you can currently reach right now.

Another note to step on is how players will shift their play style into the new meta. Since you can no longer pull the same dps, and how the returns in running high dps builds are going to be reduced, chances are most players are going to be shifting into sustained dps. Sustained healing springs, steel tornado, impulse, etc. Small groups of players have less of a chance on facing large groups because they lack the dps, fights last longer due to reduced damage and healing, more healing springs spam...all I see is just longer lag fights. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we'll see negate coming back to stomp groups into the dust...or maybe we'll just see 24 man steel tornado vigor raids running rampant. In all honestly, I just see more lag.

Did I mention that this doesn't fix the balance issues, but only makes them worse? Shields based on health percentages are ruined, heals based on health percentages are ruined...damage will probably trump over heals, (I don't believe heals are reduced by 20% currently. You're reducing healing by 50% and damage by only another 30%.) EDIT: Heals are reduced by 15%.

They're just trashing the balance of the game even more. They refuse to look at the issues of some people permablocking, or why people can reach such ridiculous amounts of damage (which is largely unrelated to CP, I'm certain I can reach 40k dps on my magicka NB without any CP at all. It all points back to removing soft caps to push the champion system into the game, which substitutes for the lack of content, and literally adds thousands of hours of grind, not actual content.) We have numerous bugs still in the game. Exploits, lag, all kinds of serious ***. Balance has been worse, but they aren't going in the right direction. They lack any understanding of their own game, the issues within it, and how to reach a resolve for them. I'm pretty sure this update has caused more people to leave the game, some which had been with it since launch. It's just a blatant reminder of that Zenimax has no *** clue what they're really doing, or they literally just don't care.

HungryHobo

Animation cancelling + the wind up skills that hit hard = instadeath for a lot of pvpers. The game meta is essentially DPS. I think this answer is simplistic and maintains the value of those skills. Frankly I like it. The resultant Shield "Nerf" is an actual buff if you look at the % change from current states to the prospective stats.

Shields are reduced by 20% currently, they are getting nerfed to 50%. that is a 30% negative change..

Damage is 0% currently, and will change to 50% = -50%

Healing is 0% currently, and will change to 50%. = -50%

Shields are essentially becoming as strong as the pre-20% nerf but this time effectively buffered by 2x the HP.. which benefits the Templar/DK shields too compared to the "OP Sorc Hardened Ward."

ToRelax

HungryHobo wrote: »

Animation cancelling + the wind up skills that hit hard = instadeath for a lot of pvpers. The game meta is essentially DPS. I think this answer is simplistic and maintains the value of those skills. Frankly I like it. The resultant Shield "Nerf" is an actual buff if you look at the % change from current states to the prospective stats.

Shields are reduced by 20% currently, they are getting nerfed to 50%. that is a 30% negative change..

Damage is 0% currently, and will change to 50% = -50%

Healing is 0% currently, and will change to 50%. = -50%

Shields are essentially becoming as strong as the pre-20% nerf but this time effectively buffered by 2x the HP.. which benefits the Templar/DK shields too compared to the "OP Sorc Hardened Ward."

At least have a look at battle spirit before posting that nonsense.

Kloud

I guess it just me that thinks this all I do Is pvp I just wish they would of done a bit more to balance things instead of being very lazy on the issue

leepalmer95

ToRelax wrote: »

HungryHobo wrote: »

Animation cancelling + the wind up skills that hit hard = instadeath for a lot of pvpers. The game meta is essentially DPS. I think this answer is simplistic and maintains the value of those skills. Frankly I like it. The resultant Shield "Nerf" is an actual buff if you look at the % change from current states to the prospective stats.

Shields are reduced by 20% currently, they are getting nerfed to 50%. that is a 30% negative change..

Damage is 0% currently, and will change to 50% = -50%

Healing is 0% currently, and will change to 50%. = -50%

Shields are essentially becoming as strong as the pre-20% nerf but this time effectively buffered by 2x the HP.. which benefits the Templar/DK shields too compared to the "OP Sorc Hardened Ward."

At least have a look at battle spirit before posting that nonsense.

Ppl defending sorc are cute aren't they, this will still benefit sorc's though, even though they lose a bit of shield the fact that they won't be able to be killed by burst dmg in a 1v1 (which is the only way to kill them) simply because damage is now lowered meaning sorc have more reaction time to put up there hardened ward xD.

ToRelax

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

HungryHobo wrote: »

Animation cancelling + the wind up skills that hit hard = instadeath for a lot of pvpers. The game meta is essentially DPS. I think this answer is simplistic and maintains the value of those skills. Frankly I like it. The resultant Shield "Nerf" is an actual buff if you look at the % change from current states to the prospective stats.

Shields are reduced by 20% currently, they are getting nerfed to 50%. that is a 30% negative change..

Damage is 0% currently, and will change to 50% = -50%

Healing is 0% currently, and will change to 50%. = -50%

Shields are essentially becoming as strong as the pre-20% nerf but this time effectively buffered by 2x the HP.. which benefits the Templar/DK shields too compared to the "OP Sorc Hardened Ward."

At least have a look at battle spirit before posting that nonsense.

Ppl defending sorc are cute aren't they, this will still benefit sorc's though, even though they lose a bit of shield the fact that they won't be able to be killed by burst dmg in a 1v1 (which is the only way to kill them) simply because damage is now lowered meaning sorc have more reaction time to put up there hardened ward xD.

Absolutely, Sorc will not become weaker with this update relative to other classes. But independent of that their changes are lazy and will just create more problems.