New exploit?

aco5712

Im not saying this is an exploit but its very fishy.....

Today i have seen 4 different DKs, with 45-50k hp (non emps). Thats very very hard to reach. I know NBs can get to 53ish so i believe it is possible. However, with such high health, you have no other resources. No magicka/stamina/recovery. However, these 4 DKs were able to dodge roll like a medium armour user, heal like a magicka user and tank like heavy armour users lol. A group of us ~10 NM players couldnt kill one DK by himself for about 4 minutes because of the health, healing, dodge and tanking....

Idk about anyone else, but something seems extremely off to me about this. Anyone else seen these players?

Sypher

The cp farmers might be coming out of their caves, thats my explanation.

Welcome our new overlords, they've slain over 9000 zombies to achieve such 1337 skill and talent. And by 1337 I mean 1337 more champion points than you.

Soulac

Gonna be so much fun when everyone is able to perm block, got infinity Magicka and Stamina, insane heals, strong defense and high dmg.
Should be around 1.2k points..
This really motivates me.

Alcast

Sypher wrote: »

The cp farmers might be coming out of their caves, thats my explanation.

Welcome our new overlords, they've slain over 9000 zombies to achieve such 1337 skill and talent. And by 1337 I mean 1337 more champion points than you.

There are quite a few people already in the 1000 CPs...

in 4 Months there will be ppl with 2000 CP...
My friend did some tests on pts with 3.6k CP
People that say this is far away are wrong, in about 8 Months there will be ppl with at least 3k+ CP already.


And dont tell me he has low Magicka/Stamina.
I think he could go AFK while pressing his blockbutton with smth and come back 5min later


I am sitting at 320 CP, I already feel like I am left behind and ZOS stabbed me in the back once more.

Wasnt it ZOS that said nobody will reach 3,6k in 2-3 year? They must have been joking i guess trolololol /ZOS stupidity

I still believe that was the conversation between the gameplay Dev and CP dev


Pre1.6:
Dungeons Dev: Ehh man, will the CP system affect the game balance much?
CP Creator: Ohh hey, nahh dont worry, not by a lot, its only for RPers and casuals to give them some kind of advancement to feel happy
DUngeons Dev: Ohhh okay...then I better nerf the difficulties because too many ppl QQ already. Ok good thanks bro, cya.

Post 1.6:
Dungeons Dev: *** man, ppl steamrolling Trials/Arena and its silly easy, i thought CP isnt gonna affect gameplay at all!!!!!
CP Creator: Ohh shizzle dude, some ppl already in the 1k CP after 5 Months, I thought now some ppl would hit around 200 CP, sry man that i fcked your gameplay balance. But now its your problem im done with CP and im outta here cyyaaaaaaaaaa

Kas

worst of all, any nerf to grindspots would widen the gap between those that already grinded and those that didn't in terms of effort to close the gap. changes, like increased XP gain for some activitzies, on the other hand, will be use by those that play a lot to earn more points. ultimately, the diminsihing returns are there but too small. imho the best fix would be a system where catching up to the avgerage is very easy and pulling away very hard.

imho champion XP should work in a way where you get more xp the further you're below the median/average CPoints and less the further you're above it. i don't see a probem if someone with 1000CP right now only gets half the champion XP someone with 300 gets and a tenth of the champion XP a player reaching V12 for the first time get. numbers are pulled out of my ... (assuming an average of 150CP)

Farorin

Kas wrote: »

...imho the best fix would be a system where catching up to the avgerage is very easy and pulling away very hard.

imho champion XP should work in a way where you get more xp the further you're below the median/average CPoints and less the further you're above it. i don't see a probem if someone with 1000CP right now only gets half the champion XP someone with 300 gets and a tenth of the champion XP a player reaching V12 for the first time get. numbers are pulled out of my ... (assuming an average of 150CP)

A solution like that would be cool, it would even be fine if there was a cap placed on the diminishing effect and bonus effect of CP experiance gain, s that the grinders can't complain too hard, as they will still be well in front no matter what, but so that the normal player still have at least a sliver of a fighting chance.

Leandor

A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game. I foresee extensive opposition from people having progressed beyond the limits given, though.

___________________

If done correctly, it could be a good thing. To give some numbers and elaborate on my thoughts:

• Whenever a character gains a Champion Rank (CR), calculate the current average CP on the respective server.
• Make a simple evaluation (CCR = character CR, ACR = server average CR):
  • If CCR < 30% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 10% of normal
  • If 30% ACR < CCR < 60% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 40% of normal
  • If 60% ACR < CCR < 100% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 75% of normal
  • If 100% ACR < CCR < 200% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 100%
  • If 200% ACR < CCR < 300% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 300%
  • If 300% ACR < CCR < 400% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 1000%
  • If CCR > 400% ACR -> no advancement possible.
• Tweak the example numbers given above until you have a decent catch-up mechanic and a good point where the incentive to continue amassing CP is removed.
• The system will never "run out", since the ACR is calculated dynamically.
• Calculation effort is minimal. This is a simple database column summation and division by maximum index number. Since we are dealing with numbers only, that is the most simple kind of database operation.
• Having the cut-off point at 400% means that you can go to 3600 CP once the server average has reached 900. With 1080 points being required to unlock ALL passive perks, that limit unlocks CP fully once the system gives only strongly diminished bonuses. Reducing that number will make the playing field stay closer together but will on the other hand discourage some players that have already progressed beyond those limits.
• The percentage based system would ensure that a more mature server would be handled differently than a young server (RE: Console <-> PC) and would ensure that a new player can catch up very fast, even if the server average approaches 3600.
• It can also cope with future increases/extensions to the CP system.

Thoughts? If people could see the benefit of such a system over the proposed static "catch-up mechanism" that was briefly talked about in ESO life, maybe we can bring this to attention of the devs.

Kas

Leandor wrote: »

A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game. I foresee extensive opposition from people having progressed beyond the limits given, though.

___________________

tbh all players having 600+++ CP i know actually don't enjoy grinding and would probably be very open to such a system. Mostly the midset is "I want to compete for the top-top spot and may not be at a disadvantage" and not "I want to play all day to have an advantage over others"

Leandor wrote: »

[/list]Thoughts? If people could see the benefit of such a system over the proposed static "catch-up mechanism" that was briefly talked about in ESO life, maybe we can bring this to attention of the devs.

yeah, it's pretty much what I had in mind.

Though I guess valculating the average at every server downtime is easily enough and "no advancement possible" is not needed.
Finally, I don't think static brackets work well. Better scale XP smoothly. Otherwise you can quickly run into much-hated effects like the "cold progression" in the German tax system. Also, it's very frustrating to experience large changes form one CP to the other. Scaling smoothing isn't hard either

kevlarto_ESO

Sypher wrote: »

The cp farmers might be coming out of their caves, thats my explanation.

Welcome our new overlords, they've slain over 9000 zombies to achieve such 1337 skill and talent. And by 1337 I mean 1337 more champion points than you.

And 50 pounds of butt fat LOL, makes me think of the South Park wow episodes with them sitting in the basement killing boars.. Who knows there are so many broken game mechanics in this game another exploit or bug would not surprise me.

Leandor

Kas wrote: »

yeah, it's pretty much what I had in mind.

Though I guess valculating the average at every server downtime is easily enough and "no advancement possible" is not needed.
Finally, I don't think static brackets work well. Better scale XP smoothly. Otherwise you can quickly run into much-hated effects like the "cold progression" in the German tax system. Also, it's very frustrating to experience large changes form one CP to the other. Scaling smoothing isn't hard either

I agree, but couldn't be bothered to pull the math for giving some nice smooth XP requirement formulas, that's what the devs are for... Maybe consider the values given above as "fix points" for the dynamic function development.

But still, an initial "catch-up" range that has very low cost for CPs universally should be included (a static range in the beginning), with dynamics only applying after you have reached something like 30% of ACR.

Also, the dynamic calculation of ACR on spot is preferable over a static evaluation upon server downtime. Consider that downtimes may not happen for 3 weeks in a row. With enlightenment, the ACR may change by large amounts in this period of time.

aco5712

I didn't even think that it could be a Cp grinder lol

Jolinius

Oh you mean s____a finally came out of cracked wood cave.

Vynist

I'm a CP newb. How does getting more CP raise your HP?

Planchard

@Vynist

For each CP you gain, you gain either mag/stam/health depending on what tree you gained the CP in. I can't remember the exact amount you get per CP though.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Each point of CP that you put into red gets you a small percentage of increased health. The same for blue (magicka) and green(stamina). Note that my tests show that buffs (food and mundus) are not included as part of that calculation.

Ezareth

Leandor wrote: »

A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game. I foresee extensive opposition from people having progressed beyond the limits given, though.

___________________

If done correctly, it could be a good thing. To give some numbers and elaborate on my thoughts:

• Whenever a character gains a Champion Rank (CR), calculate the current average CP on the respective server.
• Make a simple evaluation (CCR = character CR, ACR = server average CR):
  • If CCR < 30% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 10% of normal
  • If 30% ACR < CCR < 60% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 40% of normal
  • If 60% ACR < CCR < 100% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 75% of normal
  • If 100% ACR < CCR < 200% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 100%
  • If 200% ACR < CCR < 300% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 300%
  • If 300% ACR < CCR < 400% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 1000%
  • If CCR > 400% ACR -> no advancement possible.
• Tweak the example numbers given above until you have a decent catch-up mechanic and a good point where the incentive to continue amassing CP is removed.
• The system will never "run out", since the ACR is calculated dynamically.
• Calculation effort is minimal. This is a simple database column summation and division by maximum index number. Since we are dealing with numbers only, that is the most simple kind of database operation.
• Having the cut-off point at 400% means that you can go to 3600 CP once the server average has reached 900. With 1080 points being required to unlock ALL passive perks, that limit unlocks CP fully once the system gives only strongly diminished bonuses. Reducing that number will make the playing field stay closer together but will on the other hand discourage some players that have already progressed beyond those limits.
• The percentage based system would ensure that a more mature server would be handled differently than a young server (RE: Console <-> PC) and would ensure that a new player can catch up very fast, even if the server average approaches 3600.
• It can also cope with future increases/extensions to the CP system.

Thoughts? If people could see the benefit of such a system over the proposed static "catch-up mechanism" that was briefly talked about in ESO life, maybe we can bring this to attention of the devs.

Do you think ZoS could implement such complicated math when it took them over a year just to get Spell Penetration to work as it should?

I shudder to think of the bugs that would occur at the implementation of that system.

Kobaal

Alcast wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

...


...

Leandor

Ezareth wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game. I foresee extensive opposition from people having progressed beyond the limits given, though.

___________________

If done correctly, it could be a good thing. To give some numbers and elaborate on my thoughts:

• Whenever a character gains a Champion Rank (CR), calculate the current average CP on the respective server.
• Make a simple evaluation (CCR = character CR, ACR = server average CR):
  • If CCR < 30% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 10% of normal
  • If 30% ACR < CCR < 60% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 40% of normal
  • If 60% ACR < CCR < 100% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 75% of normal
  • If 100% ACR < CCR < 200% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 100%
  • If 200% ACR < CCR < 300% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 300%
  • If 300% ACR < CCR < 400% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 1000%
  • If CCR > 400% ACR -> no advancement possible.
• Tweak the example numbers given above until you have a decent catch-up mechanic and a good point where the incentive to continue amassing CP is removed.
• The system will never "run out", since the ACR is calculated dynamically.
• Calculation effort is minimal. This is a simple database column summation and division by maximum index number. Since we are dealing with numbers only, that is the most simple kind of database operation.
• Having the cut-off point at 400% means that you can go to 3600 CP once the server average has reached 900. With 1080 points being required to unlock ALL passive perks, that limit unlocks CP fully once the system gives only strongly diminished bonuses. Reducing that number will make the playing field stay closer together but will on the other hand discourage some players that have already progressed beyond those limits.
• The percentage based system would ensure that a more mature server would be handled differently than a young server (RE: Console <-> PC) and would ensure that a new player can catch up very fast, even if the server average approaches 3600.
• It can also cope with future increases/extensions to the CP system.

Thoughts? If people could see the benefit of such a system over the proposed static "catch-up mechanism" that was briefly talked about in ESO life, maybe we can bring this to attention of the devs.

Do you think ZoS could implement such complicated math when it took them over a year just to get Spell Penetration to work as it should?

I shudder to think of the bugs that would occur at the implementation of that system.

Well, I hope so

kojou

I can't imagine the game will be that fun for very long for a player that overpowered. They will get bored sell the account and move on.

Germtrocity

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I can't imagine the game will be that fun for very long for a player that overpowered. They will get bored sell the account and move on.

Just like how all Dragonknights pre 1.6 rerolled because the game wasn't fun because they were so OP, right?
That logic never works.

Sanct16

Germtrocity wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I can't imagine the game will be that fun for very long for a player that overpowered. They will get bored sell the account and move on.

Just like how all Dragonknights pre 1.6 rerolled because the game wasn't fun because they were so OP, right?
That logic never works.

Only flaw is, that Dk wasnt overpowered. It was just easiest to play for noobs.

Corrupted_Soul

Alcast wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

The cp farmers might be coming out of their caves, thats my explanation.

Welcome our new overlords, they've slain over 9000 zombies to achieve such 1337 skill and talent. And by 1337 I mean 1337 more champion points than you.

There are quite a few people already in the 1000 CPs...

in 4 Months there will be ppl with 2000 CP...
My friend did some tests on pts with 3.6k CP
People that say this is far away are wrong, in about 8 Months there will be ppl with at least 3k+ CP already.


And dont tell me he has low Magicka/Stamina.
I think he could go AFK while pressing his blockbutton with smth and come back 5min later


I am sitting at 320 CP, I already feel like I am left behind and ZOS stabbed me in the back once more.

Wasnt it ZOS that said nobody will reach 3,6k in 2-3 year? They must have been joking i guess trolololol /ZOS stupidity

I still believe that was the conversation between the gameplay Dev and CP dev


Pre1.6:
Dungeons Dev: Ehh man, will the CP system affect the game balance much?
CP Creator: Ohh hey, nahh dont worry, not by a lot, its only for RPers and casuals to give them some kind of advancement to feel happy
DUngeons Dev: Ohhh okay...then I better nerf the difficulties because too many ppl QQ already. Ok good thanks bro, cya.

Post 1.6:
Dungeons Dev: *** man, ppl steamrolling Trials/Arena and its silly easy, i thought CP isnt gonna affect gameplay at all!!!!!
CP Creator: Ohh shizzle dude, some ppl already in the 1k CP after 5 Months, I thought now some ppl would hit around 200 CP, sry man that i fcked your gameplay balance. But now its your problem im done with CP and im outta here cyyaaaaaaaaaa

Add to the equation botters from PC who've transferred over.

Its bullShyte.

danno8

You guys got it all wrong.

One of our community ambassadors has shown that having thousands of CP's aren't that big a deal.

Ysne58

Ezareth wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game. I foresee extensive opposition from people having progressed beyond the limits given, though.

___________________

If done correctly, it could be a good thing. To give some numbers and elaborate on my thoughts:

• Whenever a character gains a Champion Rank (CR), calculate the current average CP on the respective server.
• Make a simple evaluation (CCR = character CR, ACR = server average CR):
  • If CCR < 30% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 10% of normal
  • If 30% ACR < CCR < 60% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 40% of normal
  • If 60% ACR < CCR < 100% ACR -> reduce next CR experience cost to 75% of normal
  • If 100% ACR < CCR < 200% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 100%
  • If 200% ACR < CCR < 300% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 300%
  • If 300% ACR < CCR < 400% ACR -> next CR experience cost is 1000%
  • If CCR > 400% ACR -> no advancement possible.
• Tweak the example numbers given above until you have a decent catch-up mechanic and a good point where the incentive to continue amassing CP is removed.
• The system will never "run out", since the ACR is calculated dynamically.
• Calculation effort is minimal. This is a simple database column summation and division by maximum index number. Since we are dealing with numbers only, that is the most simple kind of database operation.
• Having the cut-off point at 400% means that you can go to 3600 CP once the server average has reached 900. With 1080 points being required to unlock ALL passive perks, that limit unlocks CP fully once the system gives only strongly diminished bonuses. Reducing that number will make the playing field stay closer together but will on the other hand discourage some players that have already progressed beyond those limits.
• The percentage based system would ensure that a more mature server would be handled differently than a young server (RE: Console <-> PC) and would ensure that a new player can catch up very fast, even if the server average approaches 3600.
• It can also cope with future increases/extensions to the CP system.

Thoughts? If people could see the benefit of such a system over the proposed static "catch-up mechanism" that was briefly talked about in ESO life, maybe we can bring this to attention of the devs.

Do you think ZoS could implement such complicated math when it took them over a year just to get Spell Penetration to work as it should?

I shudder to think of the bugs that would occur at the implementation of that system.

@Gidorick has a proposal somewhat similar to this. I just don't remember the link and don't have time to look for it.

Stikato

Game is turning into exploit-fest 2015. People using toggle abilities without having them on their bar, making videos featuring this, and other people are defending this. Fotm ridiculous builds (Mainly ZOS fault here) that are forcing everyone into a choice between certain playstyles or certain death. Lag switches. Bolt escaping in mid air. Invulnerability bug. Now lets add crazy amounts of CP.

If you like PvP, go to that damn thread where ZOS is asking opinions about a CP-less campaign. People are always going to get tired of playing a game. If no one new wants to get started, that's when it dies.

TheBull

Sypher wrote: »

The cp farmers might be coming out of their caves, thats my explanation.

Welcome our new overlords, they've slain over 9000 zombies to achieve such 1337 skill and talent. And by 1337 I mean 1337 more champion points than you.

Come on bro.

TheBull

Planchard wrote: »

@Vynist

For each CP you gain, you gain either mag/stam/health depending on what tree you gained the CP in. I can't remember the exact amount you get per CP though.

Like 4 or 5 hp.

Soulac

TheBull wrote: »

Planchard wrote: »

@Vynist

For each CP you gain, you gain either mag/stam/health depending on what tree you gained the CP in. I can't remember the exact amount you get per CP though.

Like 4 or 5 hp.

Wrong.
It's based on your base ressource excluding Mundus and Food buff.
The very first points is a 1% boost on your stat, after that it's something around 0.5% and then goes quickly down to around 0.2% and so on.

Cathexis

How are stats this high?????? I'm lucky to be pushing 30k stam with 20k health.

What bulls hit

Gyudan

@Alcast: I'm having trouble believing the 100K+ health screenshot.
Back in february, with 3600 CPs, a V14 imperial nightblade and full legendary gear set towards max health, I could only reach 69K.

Could your screenshot come from holding the emperor buff with the old *2 stat multiplier ?


(or just an edited picture?)

Machiavelli

I'm new to this whole CP thing, but what do people mean when they say catch up mechanic? Is CP gain infinite or is there cap? If there is a cap wouldn't that be a catch up mechanic ?