Templars and shield stacking?

Xqluded

So many Templars rave about how shield stacking is the key to their 1 v x. With my magicka build I am attempting to stack but by the time all of my shields are up I am out of magicka. I'm only using 3 shields. Am I doing something wrong? Or stacking the wrong shields? I am using Blazing, the one from the light armor line and one from the restoration staff line. I forgot their names.

Xqluded

Note: I am using all magicka regeneration gear. Magicka regeneration is at 1650. Should I be using reduced cost instead?

Saddiq

??

You have 1650 mag regen and you're out of mag by the time you cast 3 spells? Something is definitely wrong. What rank are you? I am by no means min/maxed and don't have too big a dent at all after casting 3 shields or buffs before a fight. The only thing I could think without knowing your rank would be that you're still levelling and don't have nearly enough points in passives, or that you're not using enchants on all your armour/weapons. But if neither of those are true, than something definitely sounds off to me.

And it's Annulment for the LA skill and Steadfast Ward for the resto staff, just to give their names.

danno8

Xqluded wrote: »

Note: I am using all magicka regeneration gear. Magicka regeneration is at 1650. Should I be using reduced cost instead?

You should definitely be using reduced cost on your jewelry. It works out far better than regeneration as long as you are casting an ability more often than once every 6 seconds, which every one does of course.

cazlonb16_ESO

Templars are very poor shield stackers thanks to the 6s duration of Blazing Shield.

Cinnamon_Spider

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Templars are very poor shield stackers thanks to the 6s duration of Blazing Shield.

The length of time doesn't make much of a difference. Blazing Shield causes damage at the end. I find that I cast my shields about as often on my sorcerer as I do on my templar, even though one is 6 seconds and one is 20. There is still a limit to how much damage they absorb.

Zsymon

The only enchantments you should ever use on your jewelry, is spell cost reduction, the others were severely nerfed and are now useless (whose idea was that I wonder). Put your champion points into cost reduction as well, because cost reduction is always better than recovery. You'll still have plenty of magicka recovery if you make these changes.

Cinbri

Zsymon wrote: »

The only enchantments you should ever use on your jewelry, is spell cost reduction, the others were severely nerfed and are now useless (whose idea was that I wonder). Put your champion points into cost reduction as well, because cost reduction is always better than recovery. You'll still have plenty of magicka recovery if you make these changes.

True, however in 1.7 health recovery may become usefull.

Francescolg

Spell damage enchants on trinkets also still work very good. Cost-reduction is not a must.
In this case, it is the TE who has not enough magicka to cast enough. Normally, (with 30k+ magicka/1800 magicka regen) in light armor you can keep spamming your shields without effort.

@Xqluded
If you are not a high level, you should get the "Atronach"-Mundus stone as a healer for ~300 magicka regen for free, especially if you have not reached VR-levels. On your rings/neck you can keep +spell dmg for higher heals. --> Spell cost reduction is no must-have

eliisra

Xqluded wrote: »

So many Templars rave about how shield stacking is the key to their 1 v x.

Mist Form and smart positioning is the main reason some templars can 1vX a couple of clueless milkdrinkers. It's not really shield stack exclusively.

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Templars are very poor shield stackers thanks to the 6s duration of Blazing Shield.

Not just that, like with DK, all shields scales of different things.

Blazing Shield = Max health.

Bone Shield = Max health and costs stamina.

Annulment = Max magicka + spell power

Healing Ward = Max magicka + spell power and health left or how "wounded" you are.

Magicka templars also lack escape and movement, so need to invest in more stamina and feature reductions like block cost/ cc break. If you want to Bone Shield, you need even more stamina. Cant avoid as much dmg as sorc or NB caster, so have to be tankier.

Basically have to focus on all 3 resources and reduction for basic combat actions, to create a build with decent survivability. This leaves less room for dmg, burst or pumping shields.

danno8

Francescolg wrote: »

Spell damage enchants on trinkets also still work very good. Cost-reduction is not a must.
In this case, it is the TE who has not enough magicka to cast enough. Normally, (with 30k+ magicka/1800 magicka regen) in light armor you can keep spamming your shields without effort.

@Xqluded
If you are not a high level, you should get the "Atronach"-Mundus stone as a healer for ~300 magicka regen for free, especially if you have not reached VR-levels. On your rings/neck you can keep +spell dmg for higher heals. --> Spell cost reduction is no must-have

Gold spell damage enchants get you 64 spell damage, so 192 spell damage if you enchants all 3.

Gold cost reduction gets you 200, or 600 if you enchant all 3.

At a starting point of around 1400 spell damage at VR14 the extra 192 amount to around 13% more Spell Damage, which will get reduced down to maybe 7% more damage.

At VR14 a Templar's average spell cost is probably around 2500 or so (obviously variable based on CP), with all 3 enchants goes down to 1900, which is around a 30% cost savings.

7% more damage/healing, or 30% cost savings.

There are of course some wiggle room in these numbers but I'll let the OP decide which is better.

Xqluded

danno8 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Spell damage enchants on trinkets also still work very good. Cost-reduction is not a must.
In this case, it is the TE who has not enough magicka to cast enough. Normally, (with 30k+ magicka/1800 magicka regen) in light armor you can keep spamming your shields without effort.

@Xqluded
If you are not a high level, you should get the "Atronach"-Mundus stone as a healer for ~300 magicka regen for free, especially if you have not reached VR-levels. On your rings/neck you can keep +spell dmg for higher heals. --> Spell cost reduction is no must-have

Gold spell damage enchants get you 64 spell damage, so 192 spell damage if you enchants all 3.

Gold cost reduction gets you 200, or 600 if you enchant all 3.

At a starting point of around 1400 spell damage at VR14 the extra 192 amount to around 13% more Spell Damage, which will get reduced down to maybe 7% more damage.

At VR14 a Templar's average spell cost is probably around 2500 or so (obviously variable based on CP), with all 3 enchants goes down to 1900, which is around a 30% cost savings.

7% more damage/healing, or 30% cost savings.

There are of course some wiggle room in these numbers but I'll let the OP decide which is better.

Well, doing a bit of math makes the 30% reduction an obvious choice as more spells could be cast. Increasing the dps/healing to something possibly much higher than a 7% increase. Much appreciated for that explanation.

Roselle

@Xqluded What race are you?

I focused a lot of magicka cost reduction with my Breton and magicka recovery with my Altmer. Vampire and The Atronach mundus stone could also help out with your magicka management.

Soris

You can also just pop Channeled Focus for extra 480 magic recovery.

Francescolg

danno8 wrote: »

7% more damage/healing, or 30% cost savings.

There are of course some wiggle room in these numbers but I'll let the OP decide which is better.

Yes but the thing is, if he spec's correctly and gets some easy obtainable stuff (Warlock-set, Seducer-set, etc.), gets some CP and other stuff (race, light armor, etc.), he won't need more spell cost reduction on trinkets, as you can generally afford the costs for all spells very well after the last patch (at the current state of the game/at the current magicka-regeneration rate).

My sorc can spam healing ward, which is one of the more expensive heals, endlessly. I'm sure a templar with ~2000 magicka regen can spam his stuff aswell, and if not, he has a magicka restoration aura.

So why exagerate on spell-cost reduction stuff, if you can and still (!) spam your skills in 1.6, which brought a never seen magicka-regeneration?

All the math is ok but I seldomly run out of magicka after the last patch and spell-damage builds (of which healers profit a lot, not just DDs) make your absorb shields (healing ward) much, much stronger (not just better heals/HoTs). You can get your healing ward up to 25k+ and that is good, given the 10-20k+ incoming damage in Cyrondil, compared to a tiny basic healing ward.
But this is a question of style, he should test both ways as everyone did..

danno8

Francescolg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

7% more damage/healing, or 30% cost savings.

There are of course some wiggle room in these numbers but I'll let the OP decide which is better.

Yes but the thing is, if he spec's correctly and gets some easy obtainable stuff (Warlock-set, Seducer-set, etc.), gets some CP and other stuff (race, light armor, etc.), he won't need more spell cost reduction on trinkets, as you can generally afford the costs for all spells very well after the last patch (at the current state of the game/at the current magicka-regeneration rate).

My sorc can spam healing ward, which is one of the more expensive heals endlessly. I'm sure a templar with ~2000 magicka regen can spam his stuff aswell, and if not, he has a magicka restoration aura.

So why exagerate on spell-cost reduction stuff, if you can and still (!) spam your skills in 1.6, which brought a never seen magicka-regeneration?
All the math is ok butI never noticed running out of magicka after the last patch and spell-damage builds (of which healers profit a lot, not just DDs) make your absorb shields (healing ward) much, much stronger, not just better heals/HoTs. You can get your healing ward up to 25k+ and that is good, given the 10-20k+ incoming damage in Cyrondil. Therefore he'll also need skill-power, not just being able to spam them!

Not exaggerating anything, the fellow said he was out of magicka and was using regen enchant on his jewelry. I informed him that cost reduction jewelry was far better. Do you think he will be able to shield stack more effectively if he enchants with spell power?

Unless by "exaggerate" you mean using too much cost reduction and we have lost something in translation?

If that is the case then it really depends so much on your build, equipment, set bonuses, CP level (not everyone has 300 points to throw around) etc... On my Templar tank for example I use block cost reduction, but have around 2100 magicka regeneration (around 2500 regeneration with Channeled Focus factored in) and I do fine, but my spell power is terrible.

TL;DR If you are having trouble running out of magicka use cost reduction jewelry, not spell power or regeneration. The return on investment is just far better.

Ludof

Blazing Shield costs too much for just 6 sec.
Go for Sorcs if you like Shield Stacking

Cinnamon_Spider

Ludof wrote: »

Blazing Shield costs too much and is up for just 6 sec.
Go for Sorcs if you like Shield Stacking

When fighting on my templar, I keep blazing shield, channeled focus, and harness magic up without any issues. 5 piece Seducer, spell cost reduction on jewelry, drink and all of those can be kept up while using breath of life.

Fizzlewizzle

Maybe instead of Blazing shield you could use Radiant Ward.
Its much cheaper and ,unless you use your shield for DPS purposes, is a bit stronger to.

Templar shield stacking is a bit frustrating tbh. Since the shields use different attributes it is pretty hard to get all the shields to decent numbers.
Personally i don't have much trouble with gaining magicka, as i can get 2953 Magicka regen while using 7/7 heavy armor.
(Thats without Restoring focus)

Its pretty easy to get, if you can craft your own armor.

6 traits on 5 parts for Willows Path and 3 traits on 4 parts for Seducer.
Besides that magicka regen Jewels and have Restoring Aura slotted for the passive 10%.
Vampire gives also 10% magicka regen, as well as the Atronach stone (armor has Mundus effect, and is upgraded to Fine).
For the finishing touches you can use crafted drinks for extra magicka regen, and Potions for the 20% magicka regen bonus.

Its very situational though, as you give up most extra stats for magicka regeneration. But you can keep up heal spam or offensive spam for an insane amount of time.
When used with 7/7 light armor i wouldn't be surprised if you never ran out of magicka.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Francescolg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

7% more damage/healing, or 30% cost savings.

There are of course some wiggle room in these numbers but I'll let the OP decide which is better.

Yes but the thing is, if he spec's correctly and gets some easy obtainable stuff (Warlock-set, Seducer-set, etc.), gets some CP and other stuff (race, light armor, etc.), he won't need more spell cost reduction on trinkets, as you can generally afford the costs for all spells very well after the last patch (at the current state of the game/at the current magicka-regeneration rate).

My sorc can spam healing ward, which is one of the more expensive heals, endlessly. I'm sure a templar with ~2000 magicka regen can spam his stuff aswell, and if not, he has a magicka restoration aura.

So why exagerate on spell-cost reduction stuff, if you can and still (!) spam your skills in 1.6, which brought a never seen magicka-regeneration?

All the math is ok but I seldomly run out of magicka after the last patch and spell-damage builds (of which healers profit a lot, not just DDs) make your absorb shields (healing ward) much, much stronger (not just better heals/HoTs). You can get your healing ward up to 25k+ and that is good, given the 10-20k+ incoming damage in Cyrondil, compared to a tiny basic healing ward.
But this is a question of style, he should test both ways as everyone did..

seeing that you get way more spell/weapon damage bonus from item sets than enchants, and cost reduction enchants give a much better % bonus than spellpower/weaponpower...... who still wears warlock lol you can do better.