one or two builds rule cyrodiil!!!!!

flamingoboot76

my biggest fear and ultimate let down.....
im a sorc, daedric summoner.... my build is as follows
vet lvl 2
daedric summoning 50
greater storm atronach IV
volatile familiar IV
daedric prey IV
restoring twilight IV
empowered aegis IV
bound aegis IV
max passives
destruction staff 50
max passives
light armor 50
max passives
vampire 10
max passives
mages guild 10
max passives
brenton 10
max passives
alchemy
lvl 50 potions

thats me in a nutshell pure summoner...
my problem is this, i was exploring the vast emptiness of cyrodiil when i ran across a lvl 38 nightblade, i kinda got the drop on him and already had all my abilities ready... i hit him with daedric prey and summoned my storm atronach and continued to pelt him with light attacks from my fire staff while my minions attacked him as well... i got him to about half health b4 he knew what hit him.. i then charged up a strong attack from my staff but he got off one of hit abilities and hit me then disappeared i quickly popped my handy lvl 50 health potion to almost full health... he popped up a few meters away still at half health, i continued to hit him with my staff as well as my minions but once again he got off his special attack this time stun locking me and killing me....

the issue im having is why am i hitting him with all i got several times but he kills me in like 2-3 hits..

i knew this is how this game was gonna be, there are only a few builds that are viable and the rest are just to play around with off line...

those of you who played WOW are familiar with this method of pvp... a few healers and the rest are nightblades and dragon knights, the mages seem to be an afterthought...

xaraan

Because you are hitting him with light attacks from a staff and he is using actual powers/abilities that cost magicka/stamina against you - those do more damage than basic attacks. (Plus, without knowing his build, he could be built better even at lower level). Not only do the actual abilities do more damage than light attacks, but they also often have other effects like stuns, knock downs, etc. (Like your sorc crystal shards hits hard and has a knock down component to it). Sorcs are usually one of, if not the, most powerful 1v1 class in the game.

ToRelax

Sounds like you are new to the game and don't have much of a clue what actually happened.
It's beyond me how you can draw conclusions about build diversity from that.

flamingoboot76

my build is a pure summoner, i was using abilities as well. bound aegis and empowered protects me from attacks, plus i was using daedric prey on him which in theory does lots of damage... i was using light attacks from a level 50 fully maxed out vet lvl staff in between using daedric prey... so your saying a lvl 38 nightblade is more powerful than a vet lvl2 summoner? and yes im new to mmos but not new to the elder scrolls... so how am i way off on build diversity when i clearly got dominated by an inferior player, again in theory... that tells me a pure summoner isnt viable.. so i wasted this much time perfecting my player only to find out its not a viable pvp build....

danno8

If you expected to kill him by relying on your pets and some light attacks then you need a better build and strategy.

There are some really great videos out there with build info and everything.

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

my build is a pure summoner, i was using abilities as well. bound aegis and empowered protects me from attacks, plus i was using daedric prey on him which in theory does lots of damage... i was using light attacks from a level 50 fully maxed out vet lvl staff in between using daedric prey... so your saying a lvl 38 nightblade is more powerful than a vet lvl2 summoner? and yes im new to mmos but not new to the elder scrolls... so how am i way off on build diversity when i clearly got dominated by an inferior player, again in theory... that tells me a pure summoner isnt viable.. so i wasted this much time perfecting my player only to find out its not a viable pvp build....

Look, sorry if I'm a bit harsh now, but you didn't put much effort into a v2 character and you simply don't have the knowledge about game mechanics yet. It will come if you keep playing and asking for advise. But so far you don't, you come on the forums, say there's only one or two viable builds in cyrodiil and that summoners are useless. Sorry, like that no one can help you.

flamingoboot76

danno8 wrote: »

If you expected to kill him by relying on your pets and some light attacks then you need a better build and strategy.

There are some really great videos out there with build info and everything.

thats exactly what im talking about... i have to use a specific type of build to be viable in pvp... my build isnt going to cut it even against a lower lvl player.. thats the same thing from WOW... "build you player like this and you will do lots of damage" then why even have daedric summoner as an option?

NotSo

Sorry about everybody posting here telling you that you're wrong. What happened was the nightblade cloaked and use his time to get a solid attack (buffed by stealth damage multiplier) to cheese you down, I don't exactly know the full story but when facing other players you have to keep defensive options at the top of your priority list.

Keep that ward topped off whenever he cloaks, cc break the stuns, dodgeroll and block heavy attacks (usually hard to read so everybody usually spams dodge or constantly holds block).

Be sure to hold block when you think he's going to open out of stealth, that a lot of damage to worry about.

Chances are he probably popped some evasive buffs so you might have been hitting him 70% of the time. If you can dot or curse him, that should pull him out of stealth.

danno8

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

If you expected to kill him by relying on your pets and some light attacks then you need a better build and strategy.

There are some really great videos out there with build info and everything.

thats exactly what im talking about... i have to use a specific type of build to be viable in pvp... my build isnt going to cut it even against a lower lvl player.. thats the same thing from WOW... "build you player like this and you will do lots of damage" then why even have daedric summoner as an option?

That's not what I am saying. If you want to be a summoner that is fine. Here I dug up this video for you, a very powerful summoner build.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171990/sorcerer-pet-build-how-to-run-and-use-pets-ft-rlly-high-burst-video#latest

You need to understand that you have to refine a build for it to be viable in both PvP or PvE, can't just slap together any skills you like.

flamingoboot76

i didnt just slap skills together, i am a pure summoner.. meaning i only used the 5 skills in the daedric summoning tree, one major attack daedric prey, which damages over time then finishes with an explosion, i use 2 defense skills bound aegis and empowered ward which absorbs damage, my pets are my main dps coupled with daedric prey and passives allow them to do nearly 2x as much damage as they normanly would...



ive played enough rpgs to know you dont throw a point into everything, you have a main skill and a secondary skill....

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

i didnt just slap skills together, i am a pure summoner.. meaning i only used the 5 skills in the daedric summoning tree, one major attack daedric prey, which damages over time then finishes with an explosion, i use 2 defense skills bound aegis and empowered ward which absorbs damage, my pets are my main dps coupled with daedric prey and passives allow them to do nearly 2x as much damage as they normanly would...

You are playing a Sorcerer. You have access to Deadric Summoning, Storm Calling, Dark Magic, 2 weapon trees of your choice, light, medium and heavy armor, Soul Magic, Vampire or Werewolf, Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Undaunted, Assault and Support, for your active skills.
In fact, your summoning skills are just enough to fill half of your active skill slots unless you want to purposely gimp your character and use half as many skills in your build than everyone else.
You have to combine your available skills. You can play with all your summoning skills if you really want to, and you can even create a viable build with it, but you still need to complement it with other skills.
That does in no way mean you need to use some fotm build. There are a lot of viable options.

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

ive played enough rpgs to know you dont throw a point into everything, you have a main skill and a secondary skill....

To your edit:

I already told you, you don't know the game mechanics yet. Throwing a point into everything is exactly what most players do. There is no drawback. At all.
Your build is about how you combine your active skills, weapons, your gear, attributes, champion points, mundus stone, food, potions etc.

Reverb

You're a vet sorc and level 10 vamp and the best you can think ofin a 1v1 is staff attacks and an atronach? Terrible ultimate choice for that situation.

flamingoboot76

Reverb wrote: »

You're a vet sorc and level 10 vamp and the best you can think ofin a 1v1 is staff attacks and an atronach? Terrible ultimate choice for that situation.

i realized that... thats the point of my post... i cant just be a daedric summoner and be viable.... i have to use the dps skills if i want to beat anyone..

danno8

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

i didnt just slap skills together, i am a pure summoner.. meaning i only used the 5 skills in the daedric summoning tree, one major attack daedric prey, which damages over time then finishes with an explosion, i use 2 defense skills bound aegis and empowered ward which absorbs damage, my pets are my main dps coupled with daedric prey and passives allow them to do nearly 2x as much damage as they normanly would...



ive played enough rpgs to know you dont throw a point into everything, you have a main skill and a secondary skill....

Ok dude, have fun.

ScruffyWhiskers

Bolterity is an excellent sorc. Watch his vid. I can tell you as a nb magicka melee player, sorcs are some of the hardest players to beat if they are played well. Lots of of variety in their play styles as well...going up against aetchberries is completely different than erkon or leper si on ad or tamerlin on dc...bunch of really good sorcs on dc too. You start to notice subtle but important differences in play styles and skill rotations.

flamingoboot76

ok new build type.... tell me what yall think, i guess i should have said need help in my op since yall took offense to my thoughts on mage builds...

mages wrath
empowered ward
daedric prey
pets
soul strike for my ultimate

secondary
invigorating drain
force pulse
flame reach
fire ring
poison mist
bats for the ultimate

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

ok new build type.... tell me what yall think, i guess i should have said need help in my op since yall took offense to my thoughts on mage builds...

mages wrath
empowered ward
daedric prey
pets
soul strike for my ultimate

secondary
invigorating drain
force pulse
flame reach
fire ring
poison mist
bats for the ultimate

Alright, here are a few thoughts:

Poison Mist is not a very strong morph and without Bolt Escape your mobility is not exactly high. I would suggest changing to Elusive Mist.

Did you try Crushing Shock instead of Force Pulse? Depending on how much of your damage you actually do with Force Pulse (probably not that much since you use pets), the extra damage would be negligable compared to a ranged interrupt. Very handy.

I doubt you'll make good use of Invigorating Drain. But who knows. I think your enemies will instantly break it and then it didn't help much and you can not use it on the same target for a while.

I would strongly suggest using Healing Ward as your main heal. You could use a restoration staff on your first bar with Healing Ward in place of Empowered Ward, then use Empowered Ward on the same slot on the 2nd bar and get rid of Invigorating Drain.
Another option might be the other morph of Steadfast Ward plus Combat Prayer. Not sure how it works on the pets.

If you don't want to use a resto staff, you might try to heal yourself with Power Surge or Critical Surge+Degeneration.

I am sceptical about what you intend to do with Fire Ring. It's not a bad skill, but your build doesn't exactly seem to be tailored to go into melee range of several enemies.

A few more skills you might want to take in could be Crystal Fragments, Deadric Minefield, Encase, Bolt Escape, Dawnbreaker of Smiting, Shuffle, Boundless Storm, Rune Prison, Overload, Rapid Regeneration, Elemental Drain, Annulment, Magicka Detonation, Efficient Purge. Of course you can't slot them all, I simply went through all the skills and wouldn't suggest any other than these.

Fire Reach currently (and since launch) will not knock enemies back if the whole initial damage gets absorbed by damage shields. Just saying, not the most reliable cc. Certainly a good one besides that though, the other morph is great, too.

flamingoboot76

so basically my whole build isnt viable? all the skills you mentiond are not even unlocked... i maxed out my staff and my daedric summoner... thats why im upset with this game... why would they force you to spread your points out across all 3 trees in order to have a good build... with my sumoner build i destroyed pve but in pvp i get 2 shot and i have to work at killing them...


once again someone verifies my op... "in order to be good at pvp you have to use (insert skills)...
oh well what if i use?
"nope, you have to use the skills i mentioned"

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

so basically my whole build isnt viable? all the skills you mentiond are not even unlocked... i maxed out my staff and my daedric summoner... thats why im upset with this game... why would they force you to spread your points out across all 3 trees in order to have a good build... with my sumoner build i destroyed pve but in pvp i get 2 shot and i have to work at killing them...


once again someone verifies my op... "in order to be good at pvp you have to use (insert skills)...
oh well what if i use?
"nope, you have to use the skills i mentioned"

I think I mentioned a lot of skills, you could never use them all anyway
Its just that not every skill is good for a magicka sorc in pvp. how could they.

No one forces you to spread any points. But there is no reason not to have any passives and just the summoning skills are not enough to fill your build. You need more than only Emowered Ward to stay alive and a competent player won't let you kill him with only curses, light attacks and the pets, you need to time that with direct damage.

In the end I already helped you as much as I could, take it or leave it.

flamingoboot76

thanks for the tips tho... im trying some dark magic mixed in... probably mix in some destrustion staf spells since its maxed out

i apologize to anyone i offended for bashing the game, god knows im highly addicted to the elder scrolls, im just sick of dying and im not into making a melee build nor am i trying to do another playthrough...

Forestd16b14_ESO

I salute you sir I really do using your own build your own skills your own style we painfully need more of that in PvP but saddly our build that we take the time to make and have fun making can never match up to "i win" builds the elitest ganks use.

flamingoboot76

yo this is a perfect example of wtf am i doing wrong.. i found a guy who was afk and i couldnt even kill him, sadly his crew showed up... quick 45 sec vid please tell me what am i doing wrong.... sry i dont know how to paste the exact link but its the first video wtf eso
http://www.twitch.tv/flamingoboot76/c/6918529

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

yo this is a perfect example of wtf am i doing wrong.. i found a guy who was afk and i couldnt even kill him, sadly his crew showed up... quick 45 sec vid please tell me what am i doing wrong.... sry i dont know how to paste the exact link but its the first video wtf eso

Well firstly you aren't using any solid damage rotation. That does not have to be complex in this game, even spamming Force Shock would do the trick. But you randomly use light attacks and spam you DoT.
In fact, it would have been better using first Curse, then Fire Touch, then spamming Crystal Blast until either of them runs out and refreshing them.

Btw, Crystal Blast is a very underperforming morph. It has a longer travel time than the base skill, and of course misses out on the proc chance of Crystal Fragments.

Secondly, to deal good damage, you also need to use animation cancelling. This is embraced by ZOS as another skill component in battle, and since it pushes your damage and overall performance a LOT, there's no way around this. It's like using your core skills when the cooldown ends in other games.
For a start that would simply mean using a light attack before every other skill you use, then using the skill without delay to cancel the light attack animation and safe time -> higher dps.

Non vet players have these high health pools and your damage stats can't be exactly high either, so the outcome is not that surprising given you didn't use your skills efficiently and didn't use animation cancelling.

Ah yes, before I forget, you do know that your explosive pets also explodes when you desummon it, right? so you can time that when someone is low enough to finish them off, or stun them if nessecary. Even if you are stunned yourself currently.

Warslyfe

Try using curse, 2 pets, crushing shock (destro staff) and crystal frags on one bar. Storm Atro for the ulti

Then use the 2 pets the, hardened ward, bolt escape, and a resto heal or shield on your second bar. Bats for the ulti

You should have that all unlocked or be able to unlock it quickly (frags is a morph of the first skill in dark magic), except for bolt escape, but just put boundless storm in there until then.

Use curse and explody pet for burst and spam crushing shock for frag procs... should help your offense quite a bit and still be a "summoner".

flamingoboot76

ive never heard of animation cancelling.... so i guess im being cheesed by it and im not efficient... great...

ToRelax

flamingoboot76 wrote: »

ive never heard of animation cancelling.... so i guess im being cheesed by it and im not efficient... great...

It's a bit sad that they let it in game but do not give any tips or even mention it ingame.

Here is one (somewhat old, but should still be the same mostly) tutorial covering most of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TU43Yi5mAE

flamingoboot76

thanks man

RoamingRiverElk

If you don't have enough skill points to spend, consider getting the Skyshards addon so you can gather more skyshards. Every group dungeon also gives one skill point when you complete its quest. Public dungeons have a group challenge that gives one skill point. And the main quest also gives quite a few skill points. Also, every other time you level up in PvP ranks, you're awarded a skill point.

Cocaine

There's hundreds maby even thousands of possible builds. Every one can't be good.

iseko

There are good pet sorc builds out there. But...

It is like this: in general you can go for sustained dps or burst dps.

Sustained: generally lower but it keeps on coming. Easy way to do this is with dots and spammable attacks. All adding up to lets say 6k. Now the guy you are fighting can either defend/heal the same rate or higher. If thst happens: you will generally not win that fight.

Burst: high instant dmg but synchronizing different attacks to hit at the same time. A sorc can easily get that to 20-25-30k (unmitigated). Depending on the enemies defenses the burst can either instagib him or get him into execute range. If your burst can not do that: again, you will probably lose.

Your. Build has NO burst and very low sustained dmg. No matter what you do, with your build: Your dmg is going to suck. Blame the game, blame us or blame yourself. Dont care. But there you have it. Ive seen sorcs with pets and 2handed do great. The pets pepper them with sustained dmg and the 2hander mixes in burst/execute.

You original build has NO mobility (and sorcs have best mobility of the game so kudos for that one). No burst, little sustained dps, weak defenses and almost no heals. The entire idea of this game is to mix it up (it fails at that because there are still fotm builds). But you have your eyes set on staying in one specific branch because... It is what you like? In congratulate you on your principles. Up to a certain point at least. You want to be a summoner? Great nice go for it. But that means using pets. Not: sticking to the summener tree line no matter what. Use pets and skills that synergize with them. Make sure you have high enough dps. Either good defense (healing/shields/tanking) or good mobility. People have been succesful at using pets and having all the aforementioned. Your current build does not.

flamingoboot76

Cocaine wrote: »

There's hundreds maby even thousands of possible builds. Every one can't be good.

you ever play dark souls 1-2? there are thousands of dif builds... you can role play your fav anime character and be bad arse...
you ever play skyrim you could play as a pure alchemist and beat the game on master easly.. ive literally beat it with out any perks in anything other than armor and alchemy ...

in mmos you have to build accordingly to be any good... you cant role play or like me just pick a skill line and perfect it... you have to pick the highest dps skills in order to be viable..

this is my issue... just like WOW your gonna have everybody running around using the same skills.. sure you have 4 classes but its pointless because all classes will be clones of each other once someone post on youtube the perfect build for each class... the game will have lost some of its replay-ability because like me now i will start a new build and work on a better sorc... maybe even a healer but if i knew how to build the perfect build then all i need is one playthrough...

sry im hung over i know i babble lots but i hope you guys are getting the meaning of my op...

only a few builds rule the pvp, the rest are strickly pve


and btw, im sooooo peed about letting pc users import their builds. to the console... let them play ther master race pc... why cant us consoles grow and learn the game together, no now we got perfected builds already in pvp day one... its not fair to us console users.. you guys had a year to get ahead of us and that sux...