Proximity + vigor... just get rid of it already.

Baphomet

Yeah, yeah... I am not going to bore you with the details. You all know how it works and how it's being used.

@ZoS @Gina_Bruno the game's anti-zerg mechanism has become THE zerg mechanism. How long before you acknowledge this and address the blunder?

And then continiue on to vigor... what were the devs thinking when they decided to give all two-handed stamina builds better self healing capabilities than DKs and templars?

BigTone

Change the proxy det morph to something else. Being able to cast it on yourself is a bad idea.

Kobaal

Instead of fixing it they are going to make it easier for everyone to get Vigor.

Cheers!

umagon

I like how every "fix" they do creates more problems. It is going to be funny is when more of those "organized groups" have their nbs running vigor+springs with siphon+caltrops.

Roselle

No.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Maybe they can change it so Vigor does not stack from multiple sources. Sounds exceedingly easy. AFAIK rapid regen doesn't stack with rapid regen.

In a zerg, steel tornado is still just as op as det. The massive radius is still ridiculous. Although if tornado spammers couldn't Vigor that might be different

FriedEggSandwich

I could be wrong but isn't vigor just a stamina version of rapid regen, only aoe? Why should there be no stamina heal? I don't know much about it as I don't run astamina build.

Eglath

Stam heal should stay, stamina builds have to rely on rally otherwise, although making it a self-heal only would be good, instead of aoe.
Considering proxy det, it failed miserably to be anti zerg tool which we all know. There has been many suggestions like making it's dmg scale of amount of ppl hit. But I wouldn't cry when they'll remove it.

timidobserver

And that is why anti-zerging mechanisms do not work. Anything strong enough to stop a zerg will be too strong for the zerg not to start using itself.

MisterBigglesworth

Nerf Sorcs.

cozmon3c_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

And that is why anti-zerging mechanisms do not work. Anything strong enough to stop a zerg will be too strong for the zerg not to start using itself.

Unless scaled with how many people hit, it should do crap damage until it hits three or more people within the radius. There that's a real anti zerg skill. Oh and maybe they should add a disorient to it if you hit three or more enemies as well. F the zerg.

aco5712

Prox Det is amazing for group play. They should not touch it. If your wiping to a group using it, learn to use it properly in conjunction with your ulti's and stuff. If you still lose, go back to the drawing board and look at your weak links (Y)

Baphomet

The problem with proxy det is that is adds more zerginess to an already zergy game, which is completely opposite the intention.

Then we can't excuse it with "but it's so much fun and amazing to use" - even though it IS fun and effective to use. Gotta look at the game balance from somewhere else than your character's perception.

It's a generic skill that any build can use where before, you were pigeon-holed into using a specific weapon or class if you wanted some AoE capabilities - which came with certain drawbacks. Just adds insult to injury.

It's the same problem with a cheap, generic stamina heal which gives every single stamina build, regardless of class, the ability to self-heal with the same efficiency as a templar or DK. So now if you want great healing capabilities, you don't even have to be selective when it comes to class, you just go stamina.

I hope a least some of the game designers can see the stupidity of some of the recent additions to the game and will react accordingly.

Soris

Baphomet wrote: »

It's the same problem with a cheap, generic stamina heal which gives every single stamina build, regardless of class, the ability to self-heal with the same efficiency as a templar or DK. So now if you want great healing capabilities, you don't even have to be selective when it comes to class, you just go stamina.

Actually self healing on Resolving Vigor is better than Breath of Life(templar heal) It has 30% more healing output in general. The downside of it, is 5 second overtime but dodge rolling makes it negligible.

I think a glass cannon build such as stamina builds that can kill you with couple hits, should not have better healing and defence mechanism via dodge roll than any other build. It damages the Balance.

Baphomet

You can self-heal yourself almost instantly with vigor, and if you're running rally too, you can just stand there and laugh at the six people wailing on you - it's too good and too cheap.

Reality check @ZoS

PeggymoeXD

Baphomet wrote: »

Yeah, yeah... I am not going to bore you with the details. You all know how it works and how it's being used.

@ZoS @Gina_Bruno the game's anti-zerg mechanism has become THE zerg mechanism. How long before you acknowledge this and address the blunder?

And then continiue on to vigor... what were the devs thinking when they decided to give all two-handed stamina builds better self healing capabilities than DKs and templars?

You must not actually have vigor. Because even after grinding for it for months, I've found that Rally was a better heal. And yes, you can stack them, but vigor lasts 5 seconds and the burst heal you get from rally alone after double cast is almost better than Dragon blood for a DK. I agree completely about proximity detonation. Unless ZOS decides to somehow tweak the skill to actually be more effective against zergs, and less effective against single players, the skill should be scrapped all together. You know, I'm wondering if ZOS remembers they created a PTS server, because there are plenty of things that need to be changed and they love to just push things straight to live without us testing recently.

Chrlynsch

Vigor is alright...

Make proximity detonation scale on number of players hit.

Baphomet

Yet, people are able to jump off the bridge towers, get their health reduced to 20%, pop vigor once and be back to full health.

Same in combat, you get a player down to 20% health, then they dodge-vigor twice and is back up to full health.

An exploit?

Lava_Croft

The best part about Vigor is how you don't have to equip a crappy Restoration Staff to get your heals.

byrom101b16_ESO

aco5712 wrote: »

Prox Det is amazing for group play. They should not touch it. If your wiping to a group using it, learn to use it properly in conjunction with your ulti's and stuff. If you still lose, go back to the drawing board and look at your weak links (Y)

Amaziing that people think blobbing around in a bomb group requiring zero skill is 'fun'.

Presumably winning is more fun than the process or challenge of it for them? You seem to be the kind of player to answer that for me...

Waaaay too many other people advocating game-ruining 'fun' like this...

Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore?

byrom101b16_ESO

Prothwata wrote: »

Vigor is alright...

Make proximity detonation scale on number of players hit.

Way to further trivialise PvE content...

Lava_Croft

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Vigor is alright...

Make proximity detonation scale on number of players hit.

Way to further trivialise PvE content...

Can never be trivialized as much as the entire PvP part of ESO.

Morvul

if multiple people spam rapid regeneration, everyone still has only one HoT ticking way (since rapid regens do not stack)
if multiple people spam vigor - everyone has massive heals since all the vigors stack.

why exactly is the alliance war HoT better then the healing staff HoT???

so yes, simply make multiple vigors not stack, which means there can be a maximum of 3 active on each player (each morph + the unmorphed one...)

Alcast

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Vigor is alright...

Make proximity detonation scale on number of players hit.

Way to further trivialise PvE content...

Proxi Det on Mobs atm 30k+ crits....already..make it even stronger would be LOL. Although you could kill PvP Skills in PvE, that would be the only reasonable choice.

Lava_Croft

Alcast wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Vigor is alright...

Make proximity detonation scale on number of players hit.

Way to further trivialise PvE content...

Proxi Det on Mobs atm 30k+ crits....already..make it even stronger would be LOL. Although you could kill PvP Skills in PvE, that would be the only reasonable choice.

I will buy popcorn especially for the day that might happen.

Septimus_Magna

/

Morvul wrote: »

if multiple people spam rapid regeneration, everyone still has only one HoT ticking way (since rapid regens do not stack)
if multiple people spam vigor - everyone has massive heals since all the vigors stack.

why exactly is the alliance war HoT better then the healing staff HoT???

so yes, simply make multiple vigors not stack, which means there can be a maximum of 3 active on each player (each morph + the unmorphed one...)

It would be logical to make the same morphed versions of Vigor not stack but refresh the duration, just like Rapid Regen and other buffs, debuffs and DoT's.

kaithuzar

lol @30k crits, that's just on npc's, try that on a player stacking nirn.... try that on a zerg stacking nirn...anywhere from 2-6k max dmg
prox det is not the problem, nirn is

SturgeHammer

I think the interaction proximity detonation has with stealth/invisibility is weird. The warning radius lingers for a second or two after the caster disappears which leads to confusion. This needs cleaned up to make the circle disappear instantly when the caster goes invisible or make it visible even if the caster is invisible. I would rather have complete knowledge of where the radius is or no knowledge, incorrect or misleading information is just clutter on the battlefield.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Morvul wrote: »

if multiple people spam rapid regeneration, everyone still has only one HoT ticking way (since rapid regens do not stack)
if multiple people spam vigor - everyone has massive heals since all the vigors stack.

why exactly is the alliance war HoT better then the healing staff HoT???

so yes, simply make multiple vigors not stack, which means there can be a maximum of 3 active on each player (each morph + the unmorphed one...)

Vigor HoT stacking needs more visibility. It's completely stupid that this one skill allows an entire zerg to have massive heals ticking on them. 4x Steel tornado, 1x Vigor, repeat. 6+ people doing this plus one person to purge and there's no point in getting anywhere near them

themdogesbite

We use Proximity detonation to succesfully zerg bust and to kil llarger groups. But the damage should scale based of the ammount of players within the red circle at the time for of detonation!

Sureshawt

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

And that is why anti-zerging mechanisms do not work. Anything strong enough to stop a zerg will be too strong for the zerg not to start using itself.

Unless scaled with how many people hit, it should do crap damage until it hits three or more people within the radius. There that's a real anti zerg skill. Oh and maybe they should add a disorient to it if you hit three or more enemies as well. F the zerg.

This^

Plus combine it with a blowout that knocks people in random different directions reducing the chances of any possible support heals, purges etc.

Now you have a true blob buster.

I don't call it a zerg buster because I like largescale battles but the blobbing of zergs has to have a counter.