Let's Have A Chat About Fear, Shall We?

Paradox

To start off, I would like to say that fear is a great ability. It's the only thing that can really drop a tank's block. It should always go through block and everything else (Except CC immunity plz)... But what fear should not do is last after the target has been damaged by a player's attack. (Skip to block of text #3 if you want the reason I'm whining)

Nightblades definitely aren't my favorite class by any means, but it's funny to watch people get absolutely destroyed by them. They have some crazy burst damage capability and it's definitely an interesting class... But they have fear. Fear is the bane of my existence. While I agree that it shouldn't be totally nerfed, I do propose that it's tweaked in some way. It could be a reduction in duration based on damage from enemy players, or it could be just a simple change to how players know that they're feared. I feel that the second one would make everyone the least annoyed.

My reasoning behind it is pretty simple... The game doesn't give any visual indication that you're feared sometimes, and when it does, it's hard to see in the massive groups that we all seem to just LOVE. It 100% doesn't show if you're rooted, taloned, or in any way immobilized by an ability that doesn't apply CC immunity (Talons). I totally wouldn't care if fear lasted through damage if there were an obvious visual indicator (eg. your screen turning blood red when you're feared).

So, here are some ideas that I have to kind of fix the issue I listed above:

Proposal 1: Fear does all fear things it currently does, including fearing through damage, but your screen turns a deep red while you are under its affect. (PLEASE THIS ONE)

Proposal 2: Fear does fear things. Goes through block and all that good stuff, but its duration is reduced by half for every hit on the target after it is cast.... I really don't think that's all that insane to ask for. (I'd prefer not to have this one, as it would make the skill pretty useless, but if the first option isn't on the table, then it's pretty clear where we all stand)

Proposal 3: We remove the Nightblade class and replace it with a tiny ghost monster that thinks he's invisible, when in reality he's 100% visible to everyone at all times.

I'm fully expecting to get yelled at and told that Nightblades need this or something, but let's be real here... You guys know it's messed up that this happens as much as it does.

I'd love to see any ideas you guys might have. I just want to be able to know when I'm feared, okay. Q.Q

[Note: Fear was used 14 times in this wall of text]

Soris

+1

Paradox wrote: »

It 100% doesn't show if you're rooted, taloned, or in any way immobilized by an ability that doesn't apply CC immunity (Talons).

Just fix this already. It has been around for like patch 1.4 I guess. Tho it isn't 100% iirc. Might be 50% but yeah, quite annoying.

Gallifreyy

I completely agree with all these statements. Fear is a great ability and i love my nightblade but it is also an ability that can be the worst when you don't know when you are affected. As you said it really does need a indicator just something to tell you when you are feared when you have talons on you or you just don't do the running away animation.

Sharee

I agree that there should be better feedback for the player indicating when he absolutely should use a CC break. That means anytime he is completely incapacitated and cannot do anything unless he breaks.

This applies to fear, but also to all other forms of break-or-die CC's. I think this critical condition often is not communicated to the player clearly enough.

As for the 'fear should break on damage' thing - i don't think it would have much of an effect, really.
If a NB uses fear, he is subject to ability GCD before he can use another ability on the feared target. That often means he can not land more than one attack anyway before his target breaks out of the CC.

Yakidafi

It does not show if feared? Black cloud from the one fearing and your char running with hands up? No I think the fear missed ^^

Edit: talons and fossilize alot of times have no indication either my char just stay in the same postion with nothing comming up from the ground. Sometimes I can not break out of them in anyway. Fear always have your char moving uncontrolably

Vizier

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

RinaldoGandolphi

Fear is the single most OP skill in the game and is the reason i use Bolt to avoid even being in range of the Nightblade trying to use it.

Lets look at this "Logically"

Prior to the Nightblades screaming at the top of their lungs on the PTS about Streak being OP this is what we had:

• Streak Teleport forward Disorient the target for 1.5 secs and does X amount of Shock damage.
  
• Mass Hysteria- Fear 2 enemies for 4 secs, after the Fear effect is ended or broken the enemy is snared 50% for 4 secs and have their damage reduced by 15% for.
  

Now lets look at the following points:

1. Streak was changed from an "Unblockable Disorient" that breaks on damage to a Blockable Stun because Streak was OP. a 1.5 sec disoreint that breaks on damage was OP

2. Fear is a 4 sec loss of control of your character, a 50% snare for 4 secs, and a 15% reduction in damage...and thats not OP and is balanced? I call out right shenanigans, and every nightblade on this forum knows it.

a 1.5 sec stun that breaks on damage is OP yet a 4 sec loss of character control that ignores block, does not break on damage, and snares and maims isn't? right........and i got a plot of beach front property i'll give you for free.

At this point, you simply can't hide your bias. its a logically intractable position to hold, its comical how people will even defend this....if a 1.5 sec disorient is OP, a 4 sec loss of character control that can't be blocked, doesn't break on damage, and inflicts other status effects is surely OP

Give me back my Streak's Disorient(that will allow sorcs to counter perma blockers) and you can leave fear as is....even if we give back Streak's Disorient, its no where near as OP as Fear currently is.

wraith808

One difference is that Streak also has another effect. Fear doesn't. Not saying anything about the skills themselves, other than any comparison should be to the whole skill, not just part of it.

RinaldoGandolphi

wraith808 wrote: »

One difference is that Streak also has another effect. Fear doesn't. Not saying anything about the skills themselves, other than any comparison should be to the whole skill, not just part of it.

What other effect?

Streak does:

Shock damage(A small amount)
Teleports the Sorc
Stuns for 1.5 secs(used to be Disorient)

Fear does:

4 sec loss of character control
4 sec 50% snare
4 secs of damage output of the target reduced 15%

even if Streak was given back its Disorient, its would still be far weaker then fear just due to the fact Disorient breaks on damage and is only 1.5 secs vs 4 secs for Fear. Its not even a contest on which one is better. there is reason most Sorcs now use BOL and its not because BOL is better, its because Streak sucks now that its not a Disorient, there is no real reason to use it over ball as without the Disorient, giving up BOL defensive utility is simply not worth it.

Ashanne

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

I take it you have a below 100 ping and only do duels..gratz..all players with over 300 ping don't stand a chance in face of a nb that can output every sec at least 10k damage and uses fear (pretty much any stam nb can do that). by the time they see the animation they are dead (own experience)

I would suggest that after the players used fear his dps is reduced by 30% for 2 sec to be sure the poor opponent has a chance to survive (unless he is a fool and doesn't have any stamina left..which is his own fault)

Soris

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

The animation isn't always playing which is the main point of OP if you could read a little.

wraith808

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

One difference is that Streak also has another effect. Fear doesn't. Not saying anything about the skills themselves, other than any comparison should be to the whole skill, not just part of it.

What other effect?

Streak does:

Shock damage(A small amount)
Teleports the Sorc
Stuns for 1.5 secs(used to be Disorient)

Fear does:

4 sec loss of character control
4 sec 50% snare
4 secs of damage output of the target reduced 15%

even if Streak was given back its Disorient, its would still be far weaker then fear just due to the fact Disorient breaks on damage and is only 1.5 secs vs 4 secs for Fear. Its not even a contest on which one is better. there is reason most Sorcs now use BOL and its not because BOL is better, its because Streak sucks now that its not a Disorient, there is no real reason to use it over ball as without the Disorient, giving up BOL defensive utility is simply not worth it.

The teleport has far more utility than anything that Fear does. See people teleporting across the screen for an example. One has far more utility than the other. We're not talking about one morph vs the other... just bolt escape in general. You give me that instead of the teleport to the stationary archer, and I'd be happy...

cazlonb16_ESO

I'd be happy enough if I would actually regain control of my character upon breaking fear, not 2 seconds later.

Forestd16b14_ESO

I wouldn't object to a nerf or tweek just so it's isn't as powerful as it now or maybe as spammable so to speak. Like every time I break it they just instaly cast it again and rise and repeat till I'm out of stamina. So I wouldn't object to some work but it's most likely gonna be nerfed like DK reflective scales or heavy armors immoveable to were there barely useable. Like my honest to Kyne opinion is all 4 classes need re-worked.

Wreuntzylla

Soris wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

The animation isn't always playing which is the main point of OP if you could read a little.

Enable notifications on your client. Then you will be notified when you are cc'd.

Soris

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

The animation isn't always playing which is the main point of OP if you could read a little.

Enable notifications on your client. Then you will be notified when you are cc'd.

Yeah it's open. Addons do that aswell like !!!FEARED!!! in big red puntos. However it wasn't a text based game last time I checked.

Wreuntzylla

Soris wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

The animation isn't always playing which is the main point of OP if you could read a little.

Enable notifications on your client. Then you will be notified when you are cc'd.

Yeah it's open. Addons do that aswell like !!!FEARED!!! in big red puntos. However it wasn't a text based game last time I checked.

I pointed out a workaround that is essentially a bandaid fix. Being a jerk when someone is trying to help out will get you zero support for your cause.

Kobaal

There have been some good points made in this thread. However,

I've seen sorcs bolt through an entire raid and then bolt escape away without taking a scratch. No one can catch them... I've seen sorcs use bolt escape to troll an entire group of players around the keep walls only to drop off and bolt away never to be captured or killed... I've seen a sor spot me though my stealth from a mile away, bolt right to me and kill me in 2 hits... Ive seen Sorcs Bolt escape through keep walls...

I've never seen a NB fear an entire raid and get away... Cloak's stealth is broken so we cant even get away most of the time...

And you really think Fear is more OP than Bolt escape? You think Fear is the "Single most OP ability in the game"?

That's just funny.

iliatha

many people are able to break free from fear before they can be hit by anything, no matter how hard i spam a follow up. In fight versus a tanky dk for example there is still no way to deal dmg with that spell, its not like it grants you even 1 free attack.

Soris

@Kobaal I'm failing to see the point why did you think we are all whining about OPness of fear and such. And wtf bolt escape has to do with that?

Thread is just about making fear animation more clear for the victim and fixing the bugs that stops the animation time to time. And making break free more responsive and instant. You didnt read, did you?

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

IKR- running away from the caster with you hands in the air is no indication at all that your feared. I mean common! :-/


NOT


I'm pretty sure fear is working as intended. Let's just leave it alone shall we...

The animation isn't always playing which is the main point of OP if you could read a little.

Enable notifications on your client. Then you will be notified when you are cc'd.

Yeah it's open. Addons do that aswell like !!!FEARED!!! in big red puntos. However it wasn't a text based game last time I checked.

I pointed out a workaround that is essentially a bandaid fix. Being a jerk when someone is trying to help out will get you zero support for your cause.

Sry if im sound like a jerk i didn't mean that, but it's just not the right way to fix things.

Yonkit

I have to say that as someone who has NB'd for many many months, since launch, I'm a huge fan of fear. Now that I'm rolling a DK tank that is getting feared, I have to say... I'm still a huge fan of fear. It keeps the battles more dynamic than a NB leaping in, futilely hitting me, then cloaking away while I try to whip spam them. When I'm tanking 5-10 people at once and finally the NB comes in and fears me and I die, it's probably a good thing, a balanced thing. It's not certain death as long as I cc break quick enough, and having used the move a lot, I watch for it, even when rooted, and respond accordingly, then start ig shielding my stam back into place. Sure it's annoying, but it's not the end of the world, and frankly, having been on both sides of this issue now, I'm still in favor of fear remaining as it is.

Watch your stam, watch your characters, life sucks when you get feared and killed, but it happens. There are other things that suck too, like when you get sniped or when you get proxy det'd or whatever else. It's not an instadead maneuver, and you can get out of it... so keep it as it is.

Paradox

Yonkit wrote: »

I have to say that as someone who has NB'd for many many months, since launch, I'm a huge fan of fear. Now that I'm rolling a DK tank that is getting feared, I have to say... I'm still a huge fan of fear. It keeps the battles more dynamic than a NB leaping in, futilely hitting me, then cloaking away while I try to whip spam them. When I'm tanking 5-10 people at once and finally the NB comes in and fears me and I die, it's probably a good thing, a balanced thing. It's not certain death as long as I cc break quick enough, and having used the move a lot, I watch for it, even when rooted, and respond accordingly, then start ig shielding my stam back into place. Sure it's annoying, but it's not the end of the world, and frankly, having been on both sides of this issue now, I'm still in favor of fear remaining as it is.

Watch your stam, watch your characters, life sucks when you get feared and killed, but it happens. There are other things that suck too, like when you get sniped or when you get proxy det'd or whatever else. It's not an instadead maneuver, and you can get out of it... so keep it as it is.

So, you don't mind that you can't see it? You're alright with abilities not telegraphing at all? If wrecking blow's animation didn't show over 50% of the time, would you be okay with that too? Because "it happens"?

Aunatar

I totally agree with the OP.

OdinForge

While i typically defend the idea of fear, I've said this in other threads not directly pointed at fear itself. In the interest of finding a better balance for fear why not take a look at the below suggestion. Maybe fear doesn't need to CC players, it's obvious that ping is an issue and there is very little communication between the effect and target. Not to mention that it snares and lowers damage output from target (not talking about the other morph of fear which only applies the CC).

"I'm starting to wonder if fear can be modified to still allow a counter to block, but also become a bit more balanced at the same time. Like a timed buff (with a cooldown of x time) that allows your next attack (or maybe a few attacks) to go through block, that next attack can be a well timed CC like incap strike or veiled strike from cloak."

Maybe the buff can expire after a failed attack, so a counter to that would be to simply dodge roll instead of block a ganker. You then know his buff is expired and you don't have to worry about it for x amount of time. Would require the NB to time his attack right, but at least the victim has a chance to fight back. And the NB still have a chance to pull out a CC through block and it's no longer a "one button win".

Just a suggestion for changing the skill. It doesn't have to apply the damage debuff, NB has access to shades for that. I'm sure there are ways to balance the skill if it worked like the above, so groups of NB can't take advantage of it more than currently with fear.

Mr_Nobody

~ A templar came into to see a thread of other classes QQing about other classes CC and stuff ~

Vizier

Paradox wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

I have to say that as someone who has NB'd for many many months, since launch, I'm a huge fan of fear. Now that I'm rolling a DK tank that is getting feared, I have to say... I'm still a huge fan of fear. It keeps the battles more dynamic than a NB leaping in, futilely hitting me, then cloaking away while I try to whip spam them. When I'm tanking 5-10 people at once and finally the NB comes in and fears me and I die, it's probably a good thing, a balanced thing. It's not certain death as long as I cc break quick enough, and having used the move a lot, I watch for it, even when rooted, and respond accordingly, then start ig shielding my stam back into place. Sure it's annoying, but it's not the end of the world, and frankly, having been on both sides of this issue now, I'm still in favor of fear remaining as it is.

Watch your stam, watch your characters, life sucks when you get feared and killed, but it happens. There are other things that suck too, like when you get sniped or when you get proxy det'd or whatever else. It's not an instadead maneuver, and you can get out of it... so keep it as it is.

So, you don't mind that you can't see it? You're alright with abilities not telegraphing at all? If wrecking blow's animation didn't show over 50% of the time, would you be okay with that too? Because "it happens"?

Does it really matter if it doesn't telegraph? BE doesn't telegraph. Lot's of skills are instant cast. Since you can't block it anyway telegraphing really doesn't matter...just sayin.

Lava_Croft

Apart from any visual bugs that occur with a ton of abilities at random times, I have absolutely no trouble with recognizing whenever I'm Feared. Apart from any CC bugs, I have absolutely no trouble breaking free from Fear.

In the case of visual bugs: Welcome to ESO, the Crown Store is over there.

In the case of CC bugs: See 'In the case of visual bugs'.

In the case of no visual and CC bugs: Learn to play.

JDar

They already fixed it after 1.6

They know what they are doing

Vis

Kobaal wrote: »

I've seen sorcs bolt through an entire raid and then bolt escape away without taking a scratch. No one can catch them... I've seen sorcs use bolt escape to troll an entire group of players around the keep walls only to drop off and bolt away never to be captured or killed... I've seen a sor spot me though my stealth from a mile away, bolt right to me and kill me in 2 hits... Ive seen Sorcs Bolt escape through keep walls...

Kobaal

Vis wrote: »

Kobaal wrote: »

I've seen sorcs bolt through an entire raid and then bolt escape away without taking a scratch. No one can catch them... I've seen sorcs use bolt escape to troll an entire group of players around the keep walls only to drop off and bolt away never to be captured or killed... I've seen a sor spot me though my stealth from a mile away, bolt right to me and kill me in 2 hits... Ive seen Sorcs Bolt escape through keep walls...

ItsRejectz

Why not contribute to the 1000000 topics regarding fear, instead of starting another