Veteran Rank Removal

bg22

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

Sausage

This start to be suspicious, it should be very near, it was meant to be in 1.6 and its been almost 2 month now from, but what I dont get is, why they didnt want to remove it for consoles. its one week and first console players reach lvl 50 and start to grind VRs.

Gidorick

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

What will your friends do once VR is removed?

bg22

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

What will your friends do once VR is removed?

Continue to play with well awaited relief, many will come back undoubtedly (as this is one of the reasons why many left).

I talked many friends into playing the game, many of which were hard corps pvp'ers like myself, and after grinding out 4-6 VR's they decided to join Cyrodiil, only to feel worthless and get stomped repeatedly... Of course turning them off to the game.

Gidorick

bg22 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

What will your friends do once VR is removed?

Continue to play with well awaited relief, many will come back undoubtedly (as this is one of the reasons why many left).

I talked many friends into playing the game, many of which were hard corps pvp'ers like myself, and after grinding out 4-6 VR's they decided to join Cyrodiil, only to feel worthless and get stomped repeatedly... Of course turning them off to the game.

When Vet Ranks are removed do you expect VR14s to get nerfed? if not, won't your friends still experience the same repeated stompings by those that used to be called VR14s?

And my questions are genuine. I'm not trying to troll or anything. I really want to know. I don't understand the desire to have vet ranks removed. I don't get the need to be at the top of mountain, especially when it's achieved by cutting off the top of the mountain.

Nebthet78

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

What will your friends do once VR is removed?

Continue to play with well awaited relief, many will come back undoubtedly (as this is one of the reasons why many left).

I talked many friends into playing the game, many of which were hard corps pvp'ers like myself, and after grinding out 4-6 VR's they decided to join Cyrodiil, only to feel worthless and get stomped repeatedly... Of course turning them off to the game.

When Vet Ranks are removed do you expect VR14s to get nerfed? if not, won't your friends still experience the same repeated stompings by those that used to be called VR14s?

And my questions are genuine. I'm not trying to troll or anything. I really want to know. I don't understand the desire to have vet ranks removed. I don't get the need to be at the top of mountain, especially when it's achieved by cutting off the top of the mountain.

Not only that, but they will have the CP system to deal with and will be WAAAAAAY behind everyone else. I am almost at 200cp myself and I am a casual player. I can then see them leaving because they are not going to be able to "catch up" and will still be one-shot in Cyrodiil.

Exstazik

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

answer no,they not say when and how.
If your friend leave beacuse vet+ levels is too long then they will not play never. Atm if you want to be avr player you need ~200 CP (80 mil exp) and grind min 2 CP per day.If you want to be a good player you need grind 8+ CP per day

UrQuan

Sausage wrote: »

This start to be suspicious, it should be very near, it was meant to be in 1.6 and its been almost 2 month now from, but what I dont get is, why they didnt want to remove it for consoles. its one week and first console players reach lvl 50 and start to grind VRs.

No it wasn't. The introduction of champion points in 1.6 was supposed to be one step towards the eventual removal of vet ranks - they weren't supposed to be removed with 1.6. Having said that, I'm now unconvinced that removing vet ranks would actually be a good idea.

NewBlacksmurf

I can't recall which date but March - April one of the Twitch Live broadcasts, the staff specifically commented that VR levels would not be removed prior to console release.

They didn't give a date when it would be removed but June was too early due to the focus of March - June to release the console versions of the game.

sadownik

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

What will your friends do once VR is removed?

Continue to play with well awaited relief, many will come back undoubtedly (as this is one of the reasons why many left).

I talked many friends into playing the game, many of which were hard corps pvp'ers like myself, and after grinding out 4-6 VR's they decided to join Cyrodiil, only to feel worthless and get stomped repeatedly... Of course turning them off to the game.

When Vet Ranks are removed do you expect VR14s to get nerfed? if not, won't your friends still experience the same repeated stompings by those that used to be called VR14s?

And my questions are genuine. I'm not trying to troll or anything. I really want to know. I don't understand the desire to have vet ranks removed. I don't get the need to be at the top of mountain, especially when it's achieved by cutting off the top of the mountain.

You dont play pvp obviously.

UrQuan

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I can't recall which date but March - April one of the Twitch Live broadcasts, the staff specifically commented that VR levels would not be removed prior to console release.

And that's actually part of why I'm no longer sure that removing them is a good idea. It seems to me that if they were going to be removed, and the equipment/consumables/crafting skills rebalanced somehow around 50 being the max level, the time to do it would have been before console launch, when a smaller player population would be affected by it (ie. just the PC gamer population, rather than the PC gamer population + the console gamer population).

So yeah, around when they announced that they wouldn't be removed before console release, and around when new VR10 food/drink was introduced I started thinking that maybe they shouldn't remove vet ranks at all.

Xendyn

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I can't recall which date but March - April one of the Twitch Live broadcasts, the staff specifically commented that VR levels would not be removed prior to console release.

And that's actually part of why I'm no longer sure that removing them is a good idea. It seems to me that if they were going to be removed, and the equipment/consumables/crafting skills rebalanced somehow around 50 being the max level, the time to do it would have been before console launch, when a smaller player population would be affected by it (ie. just the PC gamer population, rather than the PC gamer population + the console gamer population).

So yeah, around when they announced that they wouldn't be removed before console release, and around when new VR10 food/drink was introduced I started thinking that maybe they shouldn't remove vet ranks at all.

About that time I started thinking...oh look another reversal of stated plans coming

nastuug

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I can't recall which date but March - April one of the Twitch Live broadcasts, the staff specifically commented that VR levels would not be removed prior to console release.

And that's actually part of why I'm no longer sure that removing them is a good idea. It seems to me that if they were going to be removed, and the equipment/consumables/crafting skills rebalanced somehow around 50 being the max level, the time to do it would have been before console launch, when a smaller player population would be affected by it (ie. just the PC gamer population, rather than the PC gamer population + the console gamer population).

So yeah, around when they announced that they wouldn't be removed before console release, and around when new VR10 food/drink was introduced I started thinking that maybe they shouldn't remove vet ranks at all.

First it was, "After console launch." We'll see if that changes into, "After we fix console launch."

Darklord_Tiberius

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

I know they want to do it and are working on it. From a players perspective, it is a very complicated issue, more than simply removing some code. The Veteran Rank system has been integrated deeply into the game we know. For them to remove it they have to re balance all skill lines, all gear, all zones and monsters and re think how to keep player stats/balance the same or close to the same without breaking the entire current system.

This wont happen anytime soon and for good reason, if they ever do remove the VR ranks as a long time player since beta; I want them to do it right. We do not need the forums flooded with more QQ, it already has more than enough of that....

Amsel_McKay

Why did this get moved to "Combat & Character Mechanics"?

Darklord_Tiberius

It says it is locked too? lol GG ZOS?

Xendyn

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Why did this get moved to "Combat & Character Mechanics"?

Dunno, there's been flying threads everywhere lately.
Wish they spent this much time hunting down exploiters and hackers.

Amsel_McKay

Xendyn wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Why did this get moved to "Combat & Character Mechanics"?

Dunno, there's been flying threads everywhere lately.
Wish they spent this much time hunting down exploiters and hackers.

If they want to hide it, just lock it not throw it over to an area like Combat Mechanics... I guess they are saying that vet ranks are not going away anymore.

JamilaRaj

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Had to take leave for a little while. But I'm back and ready to play. Without combing through hundreds and hundreds of posts, can someone update me? I'm specifically interested in knowing if any progress has been made in removing the Veteran Ranks? Have they decided how, when, what, where, yet?

Thanks in advance!

Also, please ZOS.... HURRY UP with the removal. Friends of mine leave this game consistently over this issue... And I hate to see that happen. This game is overall phenomenal. But damn... The VR has to go! Skoal!

I know they want to do it and are working on it. From a players perspective, it is a very complicated issue, more than simply removing some code. The Veteran Rank system has been integrated deeply into the game we know. For them to remove it they have to re balance all skill lines, all gear, all zones and monsters and re think how to keep player stats/balance the same or close to the same without breaking the entire current system.

This wont happen anytime soon and for good reason, if they ever do remove the VR ranks as a long time player since beta; I want them to do it right. We do not need the forums flooded with more QQ, it already has more than enough of that....

They could unroll 4-6 veteran levels without much effort and especially without touching zones.
If they were at removing VR levels completely, they could get rid of regular levels and CPs as well. Among other things, value and replayability of created content would ramp up similarly to scaling dungeons.

UrQuan

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

It says it is locked too? lol GG ZOS?

Any time a thread gets moved but they keep the link in the general discussion forum, it shows as locked in general discussion because that's just a redirect post, and not one that you can reply to. If you look at the thread here in Combat & Character Mechanics (where it has been moved to) the thread doesn't show as locked, because it's not.

MAOofDC

I started this question thread on the general Discussion area and it was moved but I will ask here. What happens to the Attribute and skills points if/when they remove vet levels. Please post you thoughts and comments.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/173754/assuming-zos-removes-veteran-levels-what-happens-to-attributes-and-skill-points/p1

Below is an except from one of my more recent post on the thread I posting it here because I really didn't see anyone crunch any numbers showing that the "Vet Level Grind" really is all that bad when compared to the CP grind as a whole.


I also think players who don't have a level 50 toon fully understand just how much of a grind the Champion point system really is. Let me tell you it's more of a grind than leveling EVER was. So there is a maximum amount of 3600 CPs to get. You would need to get 1,440,000,000 exp points to get them all, 1.44 Billion, that's Billion with a B. Next to a number like that the mere 13,000,000 exp points, that's 13 Million with a M, needed to become Vet 14 it seems, well minuscule. Exp earned leveling up also counts towards you gaining CPs. Meaning if you get 10k exp from killing a bunch of mob you get 10k towards your next level and 10k towards your next CP. So that leveling up grind starts to look a little less crappy. Because not only are you getting your base stats up and gaining new skills you are earning CPs.

As far as how the CP system actually works here is a quick tutorial.

There are three types of points Warrior, Thief and Mage, you earn one at a time in that sequence. There is 9 constellations to spend your points on their are what I call minor passives and major passives. The minor passive affect the basic power of your toon. A percentage bouns to damage with a particular type of weapon or some reduction of damage taken by a particular type of attack. The Major passives give a big buff to your style of play be it a free damage shield of extra stuff from a chest to name a few right off the top of my head. The first major passives don't activate until you get 10 points in a particular constellation. So a player need to grind up 15,200,000 Exp for their first 10 point passive in just 1 of their constellations. Please note this is 2.2 Million more than what is needed to reach Vet 14 from Vet 1. You'll need another 800,000 exp to have the first major passives opened in all three constellation. BTW the first major passive are kind of lackluster. They don't start getting good until the 30 point level another 24,000,000 exp points away for all three. There are other major passive activation points at 75 and 120. There is something called Enlightenment which you get every 24 hours. It acts like a rested bonus that quadruples the exp gained but has a finite amount of boost, 400,000 exp or one CPs worth. It should be noted that you can only use enlightenment with Vet leveled toons and the total daily amount is account wide. So if you have two Vet level toons and one uses 200k worth of enlightenment there is only 200k worth available to all your other Vet level toons. After you use it up for the day's allotment it's back to the same ole' grind. Now you can bank it up by not playing your Vet level toons but even then you can only hold 12 points worth at any given time.

To me the CP system just SCREAMS grinding and ZoS has been going out of their way to nerf places people go to grind. Making the CP grind way worse than the level grind ever is. It just doesn't feel as bad because you get 2.2 CPs per Vet level as you are getting them. That is until you stop leveling and all you are left with is the grind.

JamilaRaj

MAOofDC wrote: »

I also think players who don't have a level 50 toon fully understand just how much of a grind the Champion point system really is. Let me tell you it's more of a grind than leveling EVER was. So there is a maximum amount of 3600 CPs to get. You would need to get 1,440,000,000 exp points to get them all, 1.44 Billion, that's Billion with a B.

Not that CP system has not flaws, but you do not really need to get them all. Anything above what top players have is irrelevant. The progression could be designed to be infinite with the grind taking literally forever. I don't know what would you minmaxing must-grind-it-all-before-actually-starting-playing people do then. Either pills or suicide I guess.

MAOofDC

JamilaRaj wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

I also think players who don't have a level 50 toon fully understand just how much of a grind the Champion point system really is. Let me tell you it's more of a grind than leveling EVER was. So there is a maximum amount of 3600 CPs to get. You would need to get 1,440,000,000 exp points to get them all, 1.44 Billion, that's Billion with a B.

Not that CP system has not flaws, but you do not really need to get them all. Anything above what top players have is irrelevant. The progression could be designed to be infinite with the grind taking literally forever. I don't know what would you minmaxing must-grind-it-all-before-actually-starting-playing people do then. Either pills or suicide I guess.

I purpose in pointing out the amount of time it would take is to prove that the Level grind really isn't all that bad, and provide them with proof that trying to do end game stuff out of the gate at level 50 wouldn't happen. Even if Vet Ranks are removed they would still need to grind more just to get the same amount of CPs as a vet 14. Also people being people they want/need a measuring stick of a particular toon's potential. So that they don't waste their time trying to complete a task that is ultimately doomed to failure.