Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Dodge - separate mechanic no stamina resource
NobleNerd
✭✭✭✭
As a mechanic I believe the dodge is a great thing, but it should have it's own resource and should not be able to manipulate it at all. Everyone should have the same number of charges to use for dodging and it should recharge at the same rate for all players (similar to GW2's mechanic). This takes the stress off a stamina build to consider if they have enough to use a dodge and makes it a common basic mechanic all play styles can use and enjoy.
Edited by NobleNerd on 30 May 2015 17:56 1
-
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah, I hated GW2. Everything about it was boring including the resource system.
edit- Why should a High Elf wizard be able to dodge like a Redguard duelist anyways? What sense does that make?
Edited by TheBull on 30 May 2015 18:00Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard6 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭My intent was not a discussion about GW2. I gave that an example of a different resource option.
A mechanic like dodge that is made available to all players should be a balanced mechanic. It is not meant to be a core class mechanic and thus should be separate from class resources.
1 -
joshisanonymous✭✭✭✭Actually, the current system helps create diversity. A stamina build is naturally going to utilize either blocking or dodging for defense. So a stamina user has two choices: focus on damage and have so-so defense or focus on defense and have so-so damage. This is the same choice that magicka users have because they are mostly likely going to focus on damage shields for defense. That means there are essentially four types of builds. Following your suggestion, which has been suggested many times already, would destroy this balance and require starting over from scratch as far as balancing goes, with no real rhyme or reason to making such an arbitrary change.
Magicka users shouldn't be dodging experts, just as stamina users shouldn't be damage shield experts.2 -
joshisanonymous✭✭✭✭What would be the point? Why make stamina only good for blocking? What does this accomplish other than to make it so everyone, regardless of build, can be an expert at dodging? Why would I ever block if I could dodge just fine? Why would I ever dodge if I could block just fine? These are incompatible playstyles. You're asking to mangle any semblence of balance we have across resources and defense styles without any good reason why we should make such a drastic change. I can't fathom how giving dodge its own resource bar would somehow significantly improve gameplay. It would change gameplay, sure, but it seems to me like it would change it by simplifying choices and resource management while also reducing build diversity.0
-
Ernest145✭✭✭Stamina builds have very little survivability skills, our main one is dodge rolling so why should majicka builds be able to dodge as much as use will having high damage shield. And no making us have to block all the time is not the answer. A better solution would to put soft caps back so stamina builds cannot reach the regen required for infinite dodge rolling but still i think that isn't a good idea.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord1 -
joshisanonymous✭✭✭✭Dodge is a base mechanic that is meant for any build, not just a stamina build. It is a core mechanic. What it would do is create a balanced core mechanic for any class. Stam builds have other class options for survivability.
Clearly, it is not a "base mechanic that is meant for any build," otherwise ZoS would've given it its own resource bar. And no, stamina builds do not have "class options for survivability," because those would be damage shields that use magicka and scale with magicka.
You're imaging that this is GW2. It's not. Accept that the mechanics and playstyle options are not going to be the same. Your idea is bad, and you're giving no argument for it other than your own personal idea that dodging is a "core mechanic," contrary to everything in the game proving otherwise.0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭joshisanonymous wrote: »Dodge is a base mechanic that is meant for any build, not just a stamina build. It is a core mechanic. What it would do is create a balanced core mechanic for any class. Stam builds have other class options for survivability.
Clearly, it is not a "base mechanic that is meant for any build," otherwise ZoS would've given it its own resource bar. And no, stamina builds do not have "class options for survivability," because those would be damage shields that use magicka and scale with magicka.
You're imaging that this is GW2. It's not. Accept that the mechanics and playstyle options are not going to be the same. Your idea is bad, and you're giving no argument for it other than your own personal idea that dodging is a "core mechanic," contrary to everything in the game proving otherwise.
Just because you share a different viewpoint than myself does not make my point less valid. Undaunted and heavy armor have damage mitigation skills based off stamina and if I had time I could point out a few more.
Dodge is a core mechanic that they give to any class and my discussion is completely valid.0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭joshisanonymous wrote: »Dodge is a base mechanic that is meant for any build, not just a stamina build. It is a core mechanic. What it would do is create a balanced core mechanic for any class. Stam builds have other class options for survivability.
Clearly, it is not a "base mechanic that is meant for any build," otherwise ZoS would've given it its own resource bar. And no, stamina builds do not have "class options for survivability," because those would be damage shields that use magicka and scale with magicka.
You're imaging that this is GW2. It's not. Accept that the mechanics and playstyle options are not going to be the same. Your idea is bad, and you're giving no argument for it other than your own personal idea that dodging is a "core mechanic," contrary to everything in the game proving otherwise.
Just because you share a different viewpoint than myself does not make my point less valid. Undaunted and heavy armor have damage mitigation skills based off stamina and if I had time I could point out a few more.
Dodge is a core mechanic that they give to any class and my discussion is completely valid.
It is a core mechanic that is why it is tied to one of the core resources which is stamina. Because having it tied to any otber resources doesnt make any sense and like othe rposters has pointed out, both magicka and stamina builds use either damage Shields or dodging/blocking for damage mitigation.
Giving it a different resource not only skews the balance, it also creates unwanted wholesale changes to the already fragile combat systems we have here. Spec into medium and heavy armor and use that block / dodge reduction passives. It is meant for stamina builds but magicka builds have access to it too.
And with around 350 skillpoints being able to be used by any one dedicated player.. You can have all three armor passives and still have enough for your class skill lines and weapon skill lines.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »joshisanonymous wrote: »Dodge is a base mechanic that is meant for any build, not just a stamina build. It is a core mechanic. What it would do is create a balanced core mechanic for any class. Stam builds have other class options for survivability.
Clearly, it is not a "base mechanic that is meant for any build," otherwise ZoS would've given it its own resource bar. And no, stamina builds do not have "class options for survivability," because those would be damage shields that use magicka and scale with magicka.
You're imaging that this is GW2. It's not. Accept that the mechanics and playstyle options are not going to be the same. Your idea is bad, and you're giving no argument for it other than your own personal idea that dodging is a "core mechanic," contrary to everything in the game proving otherwise.
Just because you share a different viewpoint than myself does not make my point less valid. Undaunted and heavy armor have damage mitigation skills based off stamina and if I had time I could point out a few more.
Dodge is a core mechanic that they give to any class and my discussion is completely valid.
It is a core mechanic that is why it is tied to one of the core resources which is stamina. Because having it tied to any otber resources doesnt make any sense and like othe rposters has pointed out, both magicka and stamina builds use either damage Shields or dodging/blocking for damage mitigation.
Giving it a different resource not only skews the balance, it also creates unwanted wholesale changes to the already fragile combat systems we have here. Spec into medium and heavy armor and use that block / dodge reduction passives. It is meant for stamina builds but magicka builds have access to it too.
And with around 350 skillpoints being able to be used by any one dedicated player.. You can have all three armor passives and still have enough for your class skill lines and weapon skill lines.
They do not need add another resource (as in stamina or magicka). It could be on a timer where you are lotted only so many per sais seconds and then wait on a cooldown.
This would free up stamina resource for other abilities and skills. Many times I hear comments about block and dodge all taking up stamina when there are abilities they choose over them.
0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »joshisanonymous wrote: »Dodge is a base mechanic that is meant for any build, not just a stamina build. It is a core mechanic. What it would do is create a balanced core mechanic for any class. Stam builds have other class options for survivability.
Clearly, it is not a "base mechanic that is meant for any build," otherwise ZoS would've given it its own resource bar. And no, stamina builds do not have "class options for survivability," because those would be damage shields that use magicka and scale with magicka.
You're imaging that this is GW2. It's not. Accept that the mechanics and playstyle options are not going to be the same. Your idea is bad, and you're giving no argument for it other than your own personal idea that dodging is a "core mechanic," contrary to everything in the game proving otherwise.
Just because you share a different viewpoint than myself does not make my point less valid. Undaunted and heavy armor have damage mitigation skills based off stamina and if I had time I could point out a few more.
Dodge is a core mechanic that they give to any class and my discussion is completely valid.
It is a core mechanic that is why it is tied to one of the core resources which is stamina. Because having it tied to any otber resources doesnt make any sense and like othe rposters has pointed out, both magicka and stamina builds use either damage Shields or dodging/blocking for damage mitigation.
Giving it a different resource not only skews the balance, it also creates unwanted wholesale changes to the already fragile combat systems we have here. Spec into medium and heavy armor and use that block / dodge reduction passives. It is meant for stamina builds but magicka builds have access to it too.
And with around 350 skillpoints being able to be used by any one dedicated player.. You can have all three armor passives and still have enough for your class skill lines and weapon skill lines.
They do not need add another resource (as in stamina or magicka). It could be on a timer where you are lotted only so many per sais seconds and then wait on a cooldown.
This would free up stamina resource for other abilities and skills. Many times I hear comments about block and dodge all taking up stamina when there are abilities they choose over them.
Which then will reduced dodge usage to be exclusive, rather than a integral part of combat. Than damage shields will be the mainstay of mitigation which will use magicka... Leading to complaints that damage shield ahould be another mechanic that uses a different resource.
If you were telling this prior to 1.5, I might have agreed but now that stamina builds are viable and thriving, I see no need to change a combat mechanic that in itself part of the eso universe.
Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭
What is your point? All classes use weapons and can benefit from dodge.
Weapon damage only affects stamina based skills and melee and bow attacks, not the staves; but my point, since you're going to be that obtuse, willful or no - is that if it was not intended to be incorporated into builds the way it is, Skirmisher's bite wouldn't exist.
Your assertion, like every other assertion that attempts to speak for what the developers intend with their game, is patently absurd.1 -
Ernest145✭✭✭Dodging is meant for stamina builds so please stop saying its a core mechanic that every build has. Yes majicka builds can dodge but what they dodge 3 times and they are out of stam and are basically dead, they are given damage shield such as harness majicka, healing ward, etc. The only stamina shield out there atm is bone shield with is pretty crappy because it only mitigates physical attacks. For stamina builds to viable without the roll dodging that we have now is to literally give us damage shield that cost stamina that block both physical and majicka skills. Stamina builds have very little survivability skills that is why we need to dodge roll more than majicka builds. Dodge rolling is not meant for every build that is why there are passives in the medium armor skill tree which is for stamina builds that lower the cost of roll dodging. Having a timer for roll dodging is just stupid IMO.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭
What is your point? All classes use weapons and can benefit from dodge.
Weapon damage only affects stamina based skills and melee and bow attacks, not the staves; but my point, since you're going to be that obtuse, willful or no - is that if it was not intended to be incorporated into builds the way it is, Skirmisher's bite wouldn't exist.
Your assertion, like every other assertion that attempts to speak for what the developers intend with their game, is patently absurd.
Weapon Damage affects all basic weapon attacks with any weapon and any stamina based ability: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Stats
0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭Dodging is meant for stamina builds so please stop saying its a core mechanic that every build has. Yes majicka builds can dodge but what they dodge 3 times and they are out of stam and are basically dead, they are given damage shield such as harness majicka, healing ward, etc. The only stamina shield out there atm is bone shield with is pretty crappy because it only mitigates physical attacks. For stamina builds to viable without the roll dodging that we have now is to literally give us damage shield that cost stamina that block both physical and majicka skills. Stamina builds have very little survivability skills that is why we need to dodge roll more than majicka builds. Dodge rolling is not meant for every build that is why there are passives in the medium armor skill tree which is for stamina builds that lower the cost of roll dodging. Having a timer for roll dodging is just stupid IMO.
Dodge is a core mechanic that any class can use. I understand those who have more stamina can use it more often, but it does not change the fact that it is a core mechanic used by all classes.
0 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭
Except for Staves.
What is your point? All classes use weapons and can benefit from dodge.
Weapon damage only affects stamina based skills and melee and bow attacks, not the staves; but my point, since you're going to be that obtuse, willful or no - is that if it was not intended to be incorporated into builds the way it is, Skirmisher's bite wouldn't exist.
Your assertion, like every other assertion that attempts to speak for what the developers intend with their game, is patently absurd.
Weapon Damage affects all basic weapon attacks with any weapon and any stamina based ability: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Stats
0 -
Ernest145✭✭✭If they were to make dodge like the way you want then they will have to make stamina damage shields that mitigate both majicka and physical attacks which doesn't make sense at all. Sure we can block but that means we have to put points into less block cost and also use sword and board to be a stamina build which is dumb. Even then blocking does not compare to damage shields.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭
Interesting... because with a strong block focus my Sorc. tank seems to block a huge amount per stamina of damage.
The point is that there is a diverse choice of abilities from many different trees that would become more useful by having dodge and even block become separate from the stamina resource.
0 -
Johngo0036✭✭✭✭✭NO!!!! It should not have its own pool.
Remember that dodgerolling on any stamina build removes vital stamina that you need to do damage.
So as much as they are rolling around on the ground they are losing valuable resource required to do damagePC EU Megaserver
@Johngo0036
CP900+
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer |The-Irritable-Witch(DC)
Orc Stamina Dragonknight | Gru-Bolar(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Nightblade | Chewbucca(DC)
Khajit Stamina Nightblade | Gleaming Daggers(DC)
Altmer Magicka Nightblade | Miss Chewbucca(EP)
Argonian Magicka Templar | Walks-With-Friends(EP)
Argonian Templar Healer | Dr Toxic(EP)
Orc Stamina Sorc | Lady Streaks-Alot(DC)
Dunmer Magicka DK | Whips-n-Chains(DC)
Nord Warden | Demi Tank(DC)
Dunmer Magicka Warden | Crafter-O-Crafts(DC)
Bosmer Stamplar | Forest-Plump(DC)
Argonian Hybrid Nb | Men-O-Paws(DC)
Bosmer Stamblade | 'Maui(AD)
Altmer Magicka Sorcerer | Mid-Life-Crisis(AD)0 -
AngersRevenge✭✭✭No..... that is all.A true warrior never reveals his heart. Until the axe rips it from his chest.0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭At some point i would have agreed that dodge roll should have it's own resource. Back when stamina gameplay was simply non-existent. But now i agree with @TheBull, it's more balanced now than people think.
Stamina resource would become more important for the more meaningful abilities and yet you would rather have it used up by dodge rolling and blocking?
In many group fights it is usually the magicka users that have stamina to dodge out of attacks with stamina builds having to manage useful abilities or reserve stamina for a dodge when needed.
A change would actually benefit all classes and builds not hurt them.
0
