Official Discussion Thread for "Crown Store Sale: 5/21 - 5/26"

Lionxoft

Krycek89 wrote: »

lol, are you all new players or something? This is the way cash shops work... any of you played star wars tor??

You can get "Retired" cash shop items in SWTOR along with nearly every other cash shop item on the global auction house as pretty much everything is tradeable via in-game items or credits/gold even race unlocks.

I'm not a huge fan of cash shops but to say SWTOR is the big bad wolf when comparing to ESO might not be the most favorable comparison to your cause. I might have misunderstood you but that's how it came across to me. I will always favor a model that allows players to buy anything found in a cash shop for in-game gold or even the ability to earn cash shop currency by playing the game. Both of which you can do in SWTOR however in ESO you can't. It's a very cornered model in ESO where, as an example, one of the best races in ESO is behind a unsurmountable $20 paywall unless you open up your wallet. You cannot earn access to this race through in-game achievement or gold. Another direct comparison would be the any race in any alliance. That's another $19 give or take crown pack conversion.

Lionxoft

Paulington wrote: »

oddavi wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Honestly, 2,500 Crowns for a mount? I can deal with it, but I would happily throw 10,000 Crowns in ZOS' direction for Orsinium.

WTF a 100 $ for a dlc never in a thousand years

Edit : Where the hell is the groom outfit ...

To clarify, it is not $100, at least not where I live.

In the UK 11,000 Crowns (so, 1000 more than required) is £48 which is $75. If Orsinium adds at least 100 hours of content (I would imagine it'd be well more than that) then it is good value for money based upon what games usually cost in terms of price per hour played.

I'd gladly drop 10k Crowns on an Expansion if they came once every six months or so as I crave new content, but a more reasonable price would probably be 7,500 Crowns.

If a DLC cost 11k crowns that would be near $80. The base game isn't even worth $60 anymore. A single DLC shouldn't outweigh the cost of the base game otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of supplementary content.

Jiigen

Lionxoft wrote: »

If a DLC cost 11k crowns that would be near $80. The base game isn't even worth $60 anymore. A single DLC shouldn't outweigh the cost of the base game otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of supplementary content.

The problem is with putting the price on mounts at 2.5k. It's too expensive, but we're swallowing. It's absurd to put DLC at 5k+ crowns, as that's way more than the game is costing. Yet with the way their current system works is exactly what that would be implying. Unless you want a skin, because that's what mounts are at this point rather than a newly animated model, to cost as much as an entire quest chain, zone, etc.

fancyleggs

this is a good update

EQBallzz

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

So are there technical limitations on the number of items that can be offered in the crown store at once then?

Just seems to be shooting yourself in the foot to limit the number of items you offer at any one time if those items are already in existence.

The more you have on offer then the more chance that a player is going to find just that costume or mount or pet that they are looking for.

Yes, there is only so much virtual shelf space so before adding new items they have to sell the unwanted virtual items so there is more virtual space..jk. There is no technical reason. This is just slimy marketing tactics/BS to make players buy now or lose out on the chance later or have to wait an unknown amount of time for it to come back. It's nothing more than that and it's exactly the kind of gimmicky cash shop distraction that they claimed they wanted no part of when the game launched. Oh how times have changed.

lovESOng

Krycek89 wrote: »

Its called a BUSINESS strategy.

I may be old fashioned in this regard but when someone sells quality wares at a good price he will have a lot of customers. Overpriced pixel mounts? Ummm, yes, there you need a strategy :-P

Also, Its fun (and sad at the same time) that people are already that desperate that they would offer 100 bucks for a DLC.

Indoril_Daemion

Turelus wrote: »

Already said it via Twitter but I am sad to see that manipulating players into panic purchases is more important to ZOS than offering a large collection of items everyone has access to.

[...]

Disappointed with ZOS once again, I keep wanting to think of them as more than a corporate money maker company but they seem hell bent on being another Electronic Arts style AAA company.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yep. It's sad and pathetic to see how ZOS has transformed into everything they said there were trying not to be prior to launch. All this marketing BS and trickery to try and coerce players into making purchases is just sad but not unexpected once they moved away from subs. This is what MMOs turn into without a sub and it's only going to get worse from here.

Jiigen wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

If a DLC cost 11k crowns that would be near $80. The base game isn't even worth $60 anymore. A single DLC shouldn't outweigh the cost of the base game otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of supplementary content.

The problem is with putting the price on mounts at 2.5k. It's too expensive, but we're swallowing. It's absurd to put DLC at 5k+ crowns, as that's way more than the game is costing. Yet with the way their current system works is exactly what that would be implying. Unless you want a skin, because that's what mounts are at this point rather than a newly animated model, to cost as much as an entire quest chain, zone, etc.

Everything I've seen from ZOS since the beta has left me a bit at a loss for words, so I'll quote a post I've read (and agreed with) from the Star Trek Online forums (they have it worse there though, with the lock box model):

"I'm eventually hoping that the US Federal government will step in and start regulating this sort of walking the line activity from MMO operators. It took decades before states like California enacted "Lemon" law legislation to curb the worst abuses in the used car industry. It defiantly feels like it walks the line of fraudulent behavior on the part of a business entity. And if business entities are not willing to self regulate (and show some brains by making sure the end customer knows they self regulate) then eventually its going to require action on the part of the government sector to set and regulate fair practices.

Anyone with any brains realizes that MMO's need to earn an income for their operators. But where does the line get drawn between what constitutes earning a paycheck for fair services rendered, and exploiting your customers hopes and wants in a way that is unfair and un-equitable?

It's still at the "Wild Wild West" stage in the MMO industry. I do hope that those professionals in the industry who give a damd about more then next week, next month, or the next quarterly report understand the need to self regulate. WHEN, not if, but WHEN government decides that regulation is needed, there will end up being restrictions above and beyond where they need to be. Politicians and Bureaucracies almost always tend to move for more restrictive initial policies. Its a conservative mental bent to prevent criticism for 'Not Doing Enough!'"

ThisOnePosts

Okay... while some may not agree with their strategy and pricing (I do see it working against them a bit, since there are not as many with the Leopard or Panther yet than there are with Tigers which are supposed to be the rarest), most likely due to this "limited time" and cost for many..... I can understand the standoffish approach many have with this.

With that said, I have so far every senche mount offered in game... DAMN YOU ZOS!

They are cool though, really. Hopefully they don't re-skin the same model 789789789787 times, I did notice a new roar with the Panther however and know they have at least 1 or 2 more planned, let's hope it stays at that and then originality kicks back in with some new models. I do love the Senche mounts though.... they are epic.

ebunts14_ESO

Do you really believe that these items will really be gone? Look at things that was suppose to be offered exclusively and yet had been returned.

Zenimax is known not to be honest in its dealings. So

ZeniMax I DONT BELEIVE YOU THIS TIME. YOU SEEM TO JUST LIE OVER AND OVER.

Jiigen

ebunts14_ESO wrote: »

Do you really believe that these items will really be gone? Look at things that was suppose to be offered exclusively and yet had been returned.

They never said they would be gone, they will be removed from the store for the time being. They won't be gone forever from it, as it would appear from that.

ViciousWayz wrote: »

They are cool though, really. Hopefully they don't re-skin the same model 789789789787 times, I did notice a new roar with the Panther however and know they have at least 1 or 2 more planned, let's hope it stays at that and then originality kicks back in with some new models. I do love the Senche mounts though.... they are epic.

The Panther does indeed have a new roar. And there is the Senche Lioness and the Clouded Senche-Leopard still in planning. After that I'm assuming they'll be ready with putting effort into one new model of mount.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

well, as promised, i now gave a couple of f**ks and bought the panther, ill not give another f**k until a undead mount is in the store

Virille

In case anyone is wondering what the Black Senche mount looks like with the extras, here's an image. Straps for speed, armor for stamina and bags for capacity.

cavakthestampede

Indoril_Daemion wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Already said it via Twitter but I am sad to see that manipulating players into panic purchases is more important to ZOS than offering a large collection of items everyone has access to.

[...]

Disappointed with ZOS once again, I keep wanting to think of them as more than a corporate money maker company but they seem hell bent on being another Electronic Arts style AAA company.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yep. It's sad and pathetic to see how ZOS has transformed into everything they said there were trying not to be prior to launch. All this marketing BS and trickery to try and coerce players into making purchases is just sad but not unexpected once they moved away from subs. This is what MMOs turn into without a sub and it's only going to get worse from here.

Jiigen wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

If a DLC cost 11k crowns that would be near $80. The base game isn't even worth $60 anymore. A single DLC shouldn't outweigh the cost of the base game otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of supplementary content.

The problem is with putting the price on mounts at 2.5k. It's too expensive, but we're swallowing. It's absurd to put DLC at 5k+ crowns, as that's way more than the game is costing. Yet with the way their current system works is exactly what that would be implying. Unless you want a skin, because that's what mounts are at this point rather than a newly animated model, to cost as much as an entire quest chain, zone, etc.

Everything I've seen from ZOS since the beta has left me a bit at a loss for words, so I'll quote a post I've read (and agreed with) from the Star Trek Online forums (they have it worse there though, with the lock box model):

"I'm eventually hoping that the US Federal government will step in and start regulating this sort of walking the line activity from MMO operators. It took decades before states like California enacted "Lemon" law legislation to curb the worst abuses in the used car industry. It defiantly feels like it walks the line of fraudulent behavior on the part of a business entity. And if business entities are not willing to self regulate (and show some brains by making sure the end customer knows they self regulate) then eventually its going to require action on the part of the government sector to set and regulate fair practices.

Anyone with any brains realizes that MMO's need to earn an income for their operators. But where does the line get drawn between what constitutes earning a paycheck for fair services rendered, and exploiting your customers hopes and wants in a way that is unfair and un-equitable?

It's still at the "Wild Wild West" stage in the MMO industry. I do hope that those professionals in the industry who give a damd about more then next week, next month, or the next quarterly report understand the need to self regulate. WHEN, not if, but WHEN government decides that regulation is needed, there will end up being restrictions above and beyond where they need to be. Politicians and Bureaucracies almost always tend to move for more restrictive initial policies. Its a conservative mental bent to prevent criticism for 'Not Doing Enough!'"

This is an irrelevant viewpoint for a feature which is not a requirement for playing the game. I don't know much about the Star Trek Online pay model; I suspect that this quote from their forums is being taken grossly out of context though ( I hope so in fact, otherwise the author, who seems well spoken, is simply rabble rousing).

The price of crown store items is irrelevant. You do not require them to play the base game, or be successful at said game. Your value is in no way diminished by items in the crown store being priced high. "Whales," as the cash shop kids have come to call them, like paying premium to have items/skins that others might not have, or to collect everything.

You don't need a Benz to get to work, a Camry will get you there as efficiently. You got the money for the Benz? More power to you.

Indoril_Daemion

By your (good) response I see I should have been clearer about the objective of my post, even though I had not the energy at the time to actually formulate my thoughts and relied heavily on quotes (though I had taken some care in selecting them).

You are right, of course, when you say the items of the crown store are not required to play the base game. And I also know that ZOS is a business and they need to make money to pay for the continued development of the game (aka "the devs have to eat").

But, as a longtime player of MMOs (since the original Ultima Online came out), I'm getting weary and worried about the path the industry as a whole seems to be going down. MMOs are by no means the only ones (I'm looking right at you, DLCs), but they tend to lead the worst of the current business practices, specially when they go the FTP or BTP with cash shop route.

Granted, ESO is not there yet, but the prospect doesn't seem good. As many have already pointed out, they are set to move on adding content to the shop that cost more than the play value they offer, considering the price of the base game. And we have no guarantees they'll stop there (as they have broken promises - and their own self proclaimed "ideals" - before).

And that is where it all boils down to me, and what my post was supposed to be about: modern game companies in general (and MMO companies in particular) are set on a path that focus too much on the profit that a game can generate, even at the expense of the players.

They throw unfinished, bug-ridden games on us, thinking "we'll just patch it later". I mean, c'mon! How many day 1 patches have you seen in the last 2 years of game releases? How many in the last 5? How many in the last 20?

Then there are DLCs, episodic games, season passes, et al. Draconian DRMs. Limited activations (which effectively kills the used game market - you don't own the game anymore, you own the non-transferable right to play it) and "always online" requirements for single-player games. And pre orders. CD Projekt RED started getting pre-orders for their "expansion pass" (which, of course, is not a "season pass" at all - there's no "season" in the name, see?) before the game itself was even out of its own pre-order phase. So there you go: they made a pre-order of a pre-order (genious, right?).

But I digress. We're talking ESO and ZOS, and anyone who was here since the beta remembers the devs parading their "beliefs" proudly about, saying how they supported the Subscription model and how they understood and were aware of the evils of FTP models. They even went so far as to plainly state ESO would "never go free-to-play".

I know, I know... Never say "never". It is a business after all, and what business doesn't ultimately have profit as its goal?

But it is a blow to the consumer, nonetheless, when a promise is broken. When something fails to deliver. When they end up doing misleading or plain false advertising (Rings of Mara, anyone?) to the point where it could very well be called bait and switch.

And the worst of it is that many of us just swallow it. Because we're fans of the series (hell, I've got every limited or GotY edition of the TES games). Because we naively think "they'll not go farther than this". Or because we just don't know better (some may be not be spending "their own, hard earned money" or they just have enough of it to just throw around and then some - good for them). The fact is that, soon enough, you have an abusive provider-consumer relationship. It has happened before, many times over, in other business areas.

I'm not saying ZOS and ESO are there yet (emphasis on "yet"). Maybe is just my own weariness speaking after 28 years of playing games and seeing how the market has evolved from then to now. Its starting to turn me into a cynic, really. It's just that no one seems to be "fighting the good fight" anymore, and even the ones that always promoted the "gamers first" ideology (like CD Projekt RED) are falling into the same pitfalls as everyone else (with Electronic Arts in the lead - and I used to love EA games in the past, which makes it worse).

Maybe Bethesda and ZOS will prove me wrong. Maybe there's hope still. God I hope there is. But I am genuinely worried about the future of gaming.

Threemoons

Virille wrote: »

In case anyone is wondering what the Black Senche mount looks like with the extras, here's an image. Straps for speed, armor for stamina and bags for capacity.

Whoa, I had no idea that we were actually getting visual upgrades along with the speed/stamina/capacity upgrades. I will go check my mounts immediately for these! Thanks for sharing.

snowsong

Seth_Black wrote: »

I had a good laugh reading all comments ...so much complaining without reason...

@ZOS thx for the Senche-Panther! Waiting for next one!

@ Seth, i agree!
@ZOS, YES! Thanx for black-panther Senche! =^..^=Meorrrrrw
@Threemoons , i agree, thanx for reshowing.
@Virille Thanx for sharing pix of the new Senche, and info. on the upgrades for our mounts.Does the armor/stamina give him the headpiece or the straps/speed give him the headpiece? I am guessing the armor, is that right?

Jiigen

snowsong wrote: »

Does the armor/stamina give him the headpiece or the straps/speed give him the headpiece? I am guessing the armor, is that right?

That's correct, stamina gives the headpiece, as well as some additional armour on the Senche's legs.

Darlgon

@ZOS_GinaBruno Soo.. why is this announcement at the top of my launcher on June 5th? Its expired.

MissBizz

Darlgon wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Soo.. why is this announcement at the top of my launcher on June 5th? Its expired.

Ack, @Darlgon it tricked me! I saw "crown store sale" and was like Another one?!? Then I realized it's not just this launcher news.. but what was before it too. It's like all the launcher news since then magically disappeared.

SavageAnimal95

Can this sale start again soon for Xbox and Playstation users? I would love to have the Black Senche-Panther and I'm so bummed that I missed out on this sale!