Just how do I die in pvp in 1 second ?

crowfl56

This problem seems to becoming more and more common.

In pvp only, I am attacked by an enemy player, we fight for a small amount of time, they win or I win.

Next encounter with a different player and I don't even get a hit in, just see the attack and up pops the window telling me I was hit with 2 wreaking blows, a shield charge, and a few other attacks, all within 1 second.

How is this done ?

Amsel_McKay

People still PVP?

That is what I dislike about PvP is that its so quick (either way)... and takes so long to get back to the battle... I spend more time either trying to find someone or something to fight or am on my horse trying to get back to the location of a battle then fighting. So I just stopped PvP all together and just level alts.

Sindala

You really don't know?
Then you don't belong in PvP.
3:)

Armitas

In one point six, anything is possible. The only limitations are our own imagination and the lag. In 1.6 DK's can actually fly, one attack can do 35k, and we can summon lag from space. I just need to imagine I'm playing 1.5 and everything will be alright.

Iyas

Its the mighty lag.

Whyn Aurum

crowfl56 wrote: »

This problem seems to becoming more and more common.

In pvp only, I am attacked by an enemy player, we fight for a small amount of time, they win or I win.

Next encounter with a different player and I don't even get a hit in, just see the attack and up pops the window telling me I was hit with 2 wreaking blows, a shield charge, and a few other attacks, all within 1 second.

How is this done ?

Its the Devs testing the new Stamina build buffs kappa

Ezareth

I know of at least two players now who consistently are able to Instagib you with 5+ attacks in 1 second or less. One player in particular was doing it to me and several members of my guild yesterday and these weren't bow or projectile attacks. The damage of each attack wasn't anything to write home about but when you're hit with all of them in the same second there is literally nothing you can do.

Buggy game is buggy. So tired of the exploits and bugs in this game.

Ezareth

Ohh and I got 1-shot by Dawnbreaker yesterday to. 17K damage instantly....even the guy who used it on me asked if I got sniped or something...he had no idea what happened. I'm not a vampire and am a human form WW.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Sindala wrote: »

You really don't know?
Then you don't belong in PvP.
3:)

Typical PvPer reaction. Why bother listening, understanding, explaining or helping ? Just feel superior, enjoy..

sadownik

Ezareth wrote: »

I know of at least two players now who consistently are able to Instagib you with 5+ attacks in 1 second or less. One player in particular was doing it to me and several members of my guild yesterday and these weren't bow or projectile attacks. The damage of each attack wasn't anything to write home about but when you're hit with all of them in the same second there is literally nothing you can do.

Buggy game is buggy. So tired of the exploits and bugs in this game.

Exactly this - in other thread i asked if it might be smart macro users but someone was convincing me that its imposible - i still dont know.

cozmon3c_ESO

probably a NB from stealth that times a heavy attack followed by soul harvest, good luck surviving that burst damage with out knowing its coming.

Armitas

This is the second thread reporting the same thing. I have not experienced this yet but those who have should download the addon CLS (combat log statistics), go into the settings and turn on the time stamp and put CLS in it's own window. When you die take screenshot of your CLS with the time log and the death recap and post it with the names rubbed out.

Below is an example of CLS and how you can use it to timestamp the death recap. (this is not a pic of what people are experiencing.)

sadownik

Armitas wrote: »

This is the second thread reporting the same thing. I have not experienced this yet but those who have should download the addon CLS (combat log statistics), go into the settings and turn on the time stamp and put CLS in it's own window. When you die take screenshot of your CLS with the time log and the death recap and post it with the names rubbed out.

Below is an example of CLS and how you can use it to timestamp the death recap. (this is not a pic of what people are experiencing.)

Good idea will do.

FENGRUSH

FENGRUSH received PMs from AD members that he will be reported for the higher powers for using macros yesterday.

They clearly have no experience with the Lord FENGRUSH and his indomitable fury.

sadownik

Hmm, seems this thread is getting sunk too. ! previous thread about macros was deleted, 1 is already somwhere way down and now this. Strange.

Bogdan_Kobzar

.

technohic

sadownik wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I know of at least two players now who consistently are able to Instagib you with 5+ attacks in 1 second or less. One player in particular was doing it to me and several members of my guild yesterday and these weren't bow or projectile attacks. The damage of each attack wasn't anything to write home about but when you're hit with all of them in the same second there is literally nothing you can do.

Buggy game is buggy. So tired of the exploits and bugs in this game.

Exactly this - in other thread i asked if it might be smart macro users but someone was convincing me that its imposible - i still dont know.

Another thread was claiming it to be macros and animation cancelling. What was debated was that it is not possible, even with macros, to pull this off in the normal operating procedure of the game. That doesn't mean there isn't some exploit out there that allows it, but we will never figur it out on hyperbole alone.

The combat log being used would help and video along with it would be even better. Even better yet is if someone figures out how its being done if it is actually being done intentionally and they send the information to @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GaryA or any of the @ZOS people as posting the details on the forums if you do figure it out likely would get you in trouble.

jrkhan

Camo hunter proc + snipe + ambush + weapon proc + set bonus proc
All of those can reasonably land simultaneously, due to projectile travel time.
Within 1 second of that, the player could easily use a single abilty + light attack + bash + another camo proc if you are exceptionally unlucky. (Unless there is a hidden internal cooldown)

On top of that, they may have precast proximity detonation.

So, 10 hits within 1 second seems totally possible, and not require anymore than average reflexes and some luck with the RNG.
No macros, no hacks.


In fact, in any game where you can have players stealth, you will occasionally get insta gibbed by one or more players that you can't see.
It's an intrinsic part of the genre.

The only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening would be some kind of a burst damage cap that specifically looks for incoming damage and prevents it from exceeding some % of your hit points.

Since that isn't likely to be implemented in this game, or others in the genre.. It's probably better to accept that you will upon occasion, be instagibbed.

sadownik

jrkhan wrote: »

Camo hunter proc + snipe + ambush + weapon proc + set bonus proc
All of those can reasonably land simultaneously, due to projectile travel time.
Within 1 second of that, the player could easily use a single abilty + light attack + bash + another camo proc if you are exceptionally unlucky. (Unless there is a hidden internal cooldown)

On top of that, they may have precast proximity detonation.

So, 10 hits within 1 second seems totally possible, and not require anymore than average reflexes and some luck with the RNG.
No macros, no hacks.


In fact, in any game where you can have players stealth, you will occasionally get insta gibbed by one or more players that you can't see.
It's an intrinsic part of the genre.

The only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening would be some kind of a burst damage cap that specifically looks for incoming damage and prevents it from exceeding some % of your hit points.

Since that isn't likely to be implemented in this game, or others in the genre.. It's probably better to accept that you will upon occasion, be instagibbed.

This i would understand and i partially use it too, but how someone jumps on me - knocking me down, and the moment knocdown animation even didnt finish im dead. Recap - 3-5 melee attacks and melee skills.

Ezareth

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH received PMs from AD members that he will be reported for the higher powers for using macros yesterday.

They clearly have no experience with the Lord FENGRUSH and his indomitable fury.

I fought you quite a bit yesterday(and the word indomitable never came to mind) and never saw anything shady from you but a member of your alliance who I presume you were grouped with was one of the people who was doing something to me and members of my group that isn't possible by any game mechanics I'm aware of.

From full shields/health to dead in a second all from melee attacks in the 5-7K range and no stealth involved. I wasn't recording and didn't bother with a screenshot since I'll need to experience something continually and inexplicably before I'll accuse anyone due to the insane amount of bugs in this game. However, when my DK wearing heavy armor dies in less than a second to 5+ melee attacks from a single person along with myself and several other members of my guild something isn't right.

jrkhan

Well, back in the day, I'd uppercut + crit rush + light attack + execute. FTC would start at the start of uppercut cast, so, it was listed as typically 2.7 ish seconds for the kill.
Taking out cast time, there was < 2 seconds to respond. If you had even a few hundred ms lag, you could easily be dead mid knockdown animation.

I see many NB's do roughly that with ambush + light/medium + surprise attack.

Or, dk take flight + crit rush + execute. That seems to 'come out quickly'.

If either of those combos lands after an uppercut, I don't think it seems all that out of the ordinary.
Maybe not 1 second, but could easily seem that way with lag.


I've actually seen, in my recap, as the only item, a single camo hunter for 8k. (Obviously, other attacks must have hit me also, it's just a bug with the recap screen not showing me what happened)

I just wonder if we're giving more credence to a buggy recap/log than we should, since the sort of behaviour you are describing seems totally possible.

Ezareth

jrkhan wrote: »

Well, back in the day, I'd uppercut + crit rush + light attack + execute. FTC would start at the start of uppercut cast, so, it was listed as typically 2.7 ish seconds for the kill.
Taking out cast time, there was < 2 seconds to respond. If you had even a few hundred ms lag, you could easily be dead mid knockdown animation.

I see many NB's do roughly that with ambush + light/medium + surprise attack.

If that combo lands after an uppercut, I don't think it seems all that out of the ordinary.
Maybe not 1 second, but could easily seem that way with lag.

Yeah there is an eternity of time in PvP between 1 second and 2.7 seconds. Latency wasn't an issue and usually isn't for me.

I died the other day to a DK in a 1 v 1 the other day that I almost had dead because I accidentally hit my "M" key which opened my map, hit escape twice which opened the escape menu and by the time I got to my character 2 seconds later he was dead to a double wrecking blow. Big difference with this and that.

Makkir

Ezareth wrote: »

Ohh and I got 1-shot by Dawnbreaker yesterday to. 17K damage instantly....even the guy who used it on me asked if I got sniped or something...he had no idea what happened. I'm not a vampire and am a human form WW.

@Ezareth
We have a theory and are trying to reproduce it. I have seen this a couple times and so have AxN guildmates. Might sound silly but you think it's possible either siege or another attack land at the exact same time as dawnbreaker but only the latter attack registers on your death recap, however combining both dmg sources? Sounds far fetched but wouldn't surprise me with some of the other silliness going on in here....I'm very fond of the exploit at nickel (presumable bleakers and sej as well) where you can get inside without the door being down.

jrkhan

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah there is an eternity of time in PvP between 1 second and 2.7 seconds. Latency wasn't an issue and usually isn't for me.

I died the other day to a DK in a 1 v 1 the other day that I almost had dead because I accidentally hit my "M" key which opened my map, hit escape twice which opened the escape menu and by the time I got to my character 2 seconds later he was dead to a double wrecking blow. Big difference with this and that.

Dude, I :embarrassingly: die to hitting esc to close my map at least once a day.
I agree - though the 2.7 was more like 1.4 from an opponents point of view - but your point stands - some times it seems like incomming attacks are happening faster than they should.

I think the main point is, recaps are not necessarily accurate and, just because you aren't lagging, doesn't mean your opponent wasn't. Having played with people on all factions for a year, I can say that there are many people out there who've I've seen accused of hacking, that when I switch sides and watch them pull off < 1.5 second kills their tactics seem sound.
I just think lag (again, not necessarily yours) and buggy logs are more likely than people hacking the client.

FENGRUSH

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH received PMs from AD members that he will be reported for the higher powers for using macros yesterday.

They clearly have no experience with the Lord FENGRUSH and his indomitable fury.

I fought you quite a bit yesterday(and the word indomitable never came to mind) and never saw anything shady from you but a member of your alliance who I presume you were grouped with was one of the people who was doing something to me and members of my group that isn't possible by any game mechanics I'm aware of.

From full shields/health to dead in a second all from melee attacks in the 5-7K range and no stealth involved. I wasn't recording and didn't bother with a screenshot since I'll need to experience something continually and inexplicably before I'll accuse anyone due to the insane amount of bugs in this game. However, when my DK wearing heavy armor dies in less than a second to 5+ melee attacks from a single person along with myself and several other members of my guild something isn't right.

You cannot deny The Lord FENGRUSHs glorious prowess on the battlefield.

The other gentlemen that was with FENGRUSH was Squire Essa. He is learning how to become a Lord like his idol, FENGRUSH. He is not using macros either though.

Ezareth

jrkhan wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah there is an eternity of time in PvP between 1 second and 2.7 seconds. Latency wasn't an issue and usually isn't for me.

I died the other day to a DK in a 1 v 1 the other day that I almost had dead because I accidentally hit my "M" key which opened my map, hit escape twice which opened the escape menu and by the time I got to my character 2 seconds later he was dead to a double wrecking blow. Big difference with this and that.

Dude, I :embarrassingly: die to hitting esc to close my map at least once a day.
I agree - though the 2.7 was more like 1.4 from an opponents point of view - but your point stands - some times it seems like incomming attacks are happening faster than they should.

I think the main point is, recaps are not necessarily accurate and, just because you aren't lagging, doesn't mean your opponent wasn't. Having played with people on all factions for a year, I can say that there are many people out there who've I've seen accused of hacking, that when I switch sides and watch them pull off < 1.5 second kills their tactics seem sound.
I just think lag (again, not necessarily yours) and buggy logs are more likely than people hacking the client.

I've long suspected that this game has the client enforcing the rules instead of the server side, thus allowing things like speed hacking and invulnerability hacks/exploits. I've seen a templar in the past who could turn on max speed at will and it also affected his GCD similarly.

I won't accuse anyone of anything until I'm 100% sure they're using an exploit/hack. I of all people should know exactly how stupid it is for people to report players for "hacking" just because they don't understand something considering I was banned for "hacking" by unfounded accusations.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH received PMs from AD members that he will be reported for the higher powers for using macros yesterday.

They clearly have no experience with the Lord FENGRUSH and his indomitable fury.

I fought you quite a bit yesterday(and the word indomitable never came to mind) and never saw anything shady from you but a member of your alliance who I presume you were grouped with was one of the people who was doing something to me and members of my group that isn't possible by any game mechanics I'm aware of.

From full shields/health to dead in a second all from melee attacks in the 5-7K range and no stealth involved. I wasn't recording and didn't bother with a screenshot since I'll need to experience something continually and inexplicably before I'll accuse anyone due to the insane amount of bugs in this game. However, when my DK wearing heavy armor dies in less than a second to 5+ melee attacks from a single person along with myself and several other members of my guild something isn't right.

You cannot deny The Lord FENGRUSHs glorious prowess on the battlefield.

The other gentlemen that was with FENGRUSH was Squire Essa. He is learning how to become a Lord like his idol, FENGRUSH. He is not using macros either though.

I always thought the "Macro" accusation was a bit idiotic because macros in this game due to GCD would be harmful more than helpful. If there were a way to bypass the GCD however, then a macro would make much more sense.

Your "squire" was doing some interesting things....but I've one fought him once in memory so who knows...if sorcs can fly by creating lag on their client, maybe a player experiencing latency on their machine can break other game "rules".

FENGRUSH

Macros dont make much sense to me either - dont pay much attention to it. FENGRUSH only hears these accusations mainly about snipes, but this can be avoided. There are combos less avoidable, and FENGRUSH knows one must tread carefully on fronts with these players. Once they are found though, theyre typically not that threatening if the opening fails.

In any event, think it was mentioned that macros were not being pursued upon by ZOS. With all of the other crap they have to worry about, who knows. People jumping into bleakers through doors every day like its part of the game - ZOS isnt doing anything about anything.

sadownik

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Macros dont make much sense to me either - dont pay much attention to it. FENGRUSH only hears these accusations mainly about snipes, but this can be avoided. There are combos less avoidable, and FENGRUSH knows one must tread carefully on fronts with these players. Once they are found though, theyre typically not that threatening if the opening fails.

In any event, think it was mentioned that macros were not being pursued upon by ZOS. With all of the other crap they have to worry about, who knows. People jumping into bleakers through doors every day like its part of the game - ZOS isnt doing anything about anything.

im sorry but i must disagree with FENGRUSH. Macroes make a lot of sense. Since attak weaving or whatever you call it are acceptable, possibility to get more complicated patterns under 1 button should be useful.

jrkhan

Kind of off topic, but I've been quite curious about how things are implemented, especially given how things work in high lag scenarios.

It seems to me, that certain user actions are propagated to other users before the server has had a chance to validate those actions actually ocuured.
Case in point: Spamming ultimates during high server lag.
Strangely, it seems like the server relays other players spamming ults, when in actuality, it only registers the damage of one.
So, that's why we can see other players moving around and spamming meteor, even though those meteors will later be invalidated.


So, my hypothesis is, there are several low overhead servers that relay actions to other users so their clients can start rendering ASAP. These are subject to client side validation with minimal server side checking.
There is a separate game logic server that actually validates user actions and calculates damage/subtracts ability costs from resource pools.

Again, just a totally unfounded hypothesis based on little data that seemed relevant to what ez was saying.

FENGRUSH

sadownik wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Macros dont make much sense to me either - dont pay much attention to it. FENGRUSH only hears these accusations mainly about snipes, but this can be avoided. There are combos less avoidable, and FENGRUSH knows one must tread carefully on fronts with these players. Once they are found though, theyre typically not that threatening if the opening fails.

In any event, think it was mentioned that macros were not being pursued upon by ZOS. With all of the other crap they have to worry about, who knows. People jumping into bleakers through doors every day like its part of the game - ZOS isnt doing anything about anything.

im sorry but i must disagree with FENGRUSH. Macroes make a lot of sense. Since attak weaving or whatever you call it are acceptable, possibility to get more complicated patterns under 1 button should be useful.

That is OK. Some people may find value in it. FENGRUSH does not at this time, nor would he likely invest much energy into it.

But if it works for anyone, go for it, ZOS likely wont take any action on you. If macros are being used, it is likely a very fractional minority at this point.

Ezareth

sadownik wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Macros dont make much sense to me either - dont pay much attention to it. FENGRUSH only hears these accusations mainly about snipes, but this can be avoided. There are combos less avoidable, and FENGRUSH knows one must tread carefully on fronts with these players. Once they are found though, theyre typically not that threatening if the opening fails.

In any event, think it was mentioned that macros were not being pursued upon by ZOS. With all of the other crap they have to worry about, who knows. People jumping into bleakers through doors every day like its part of the game - ZOS isnt doing anything about anything.

im sorry but i must disagree with FENGRUSH. Macroes make a lot of sense. Since attak weaving or whatever you call it are acceptable, possibility to get more complicated patterns under 1 button should be useful.

The problem is in PvP rarely do you always use the same combination of abilities in succession without fail. Many times I'm planning on following up a curse with a crystal fragment when I notice an incoming thread and decide to spend my GCD on an ability like Defensive posture, refreshing my shields or bolt etc. Beyond tying two abilities like light attack weaving to other abilities I can't see any "complicated" use of a macro that wouldn't cause as much harm as it does good. Add in any amount of latency and macros would really screw your day up.

I have absolutely zero problem animation cancelling what I want and casting my abilities just as they are available to be cast.

jrkhan wrote: »

Kind of off topic, but I've been quite curious about how things are implemented, especially given how things work in high lag scenarios.

It seems to me, that certain user actions are propagated to other users before the server has had a chance to validate those actions actually ocuured.
Case in point: Spamming ultimates during high server lag.
Strangely, it seems like the server relays other players spamming ults, when in actuality, it only registers the damage of one.
So, that's why we can see other players moving around and spamming meteor, even though those meteors will later be invalidated.


So, my hypothesis is, there are several low overhead servers that relay actions to other users so their clients can start rendering ASAP. These are subject to client side validation with minimal server side checking.
There is a separate game logic server that actually validates user actions and calculates damage/subtracts ability costs from resource pools.

Again, just a totally unfounded hypothesis based on little data that seemed relevant to what ez was saying.

It is very evident that many checks are *not* being done server side. Look at the whole eclipse on Talons buffs where a DK flys around the map. You also see the same thing with Sorcs "Lag bolting". To my knowledge they have checks in place to detect and likely ban teleport bots and such but the threshold must be drawn somewhere to allow for latency issues.

I've also experienced times when I'm mashing my overload button during lag for example and nothing happens....then suddenly two overload balls fly out and instagib someone. Now my client displayed two abilities firing off instantly but what did the other player see? What if there were a way to "hack" your computer time mechanism that your client relied upon to establish the GCD or even distance traveled at walk/sprint speed? Wouldn't that then speed up your game client by the same factor? I wouldn't surprise me that people were doing something similar to this.