Honest Templar Assessment & Ideas Moving Forward

technohic

I gave in and use jesus beam in my latest build. Realy as far as damage to Magicka use goes; Dark Flare and RD (RD even just without the bonus for Magicka and Execute range) are both twice as efficient as our next highest which would be vampires bane not counting the DOT. Counting the DOT and VB is the most efficient there but all 3 of these abilities rely on people not purging, cast and channel, and slow and easily avoided projectiles, to where it makes them unreliable. They all have extras though; to where if you can work them in to actually hit while not being interrupted or settting yourself up to be vulnerable, they are strong and thats where I worked RD in.

Thats just a damage perspective while other good abilities are really better for their buffs, synergies or healing but even those damage ones have buffs that come with it and I think I would rather trade their extra buffs for more reliable, front loaded, instant damage even if slightly weaker to compensate.

Edgar_Baerland

Yeah I mean I often find myself surprised by the sudden-kill capacity of Radiant destruction on injured targets. I'd be totally fine with toning it down a little and boosting up templars in other areas.

It's kind of hard to make a templar worth a *** (especially magicka) without using RD.

@technohic yeah, I balked at RD for awhile, until I accepted that without it, I really had very little to make me more than a *** mage. I agree that dark flare and RD are by FAR are two best damage skills, and given the flaming I got from most people when I said dark flare was good in my OP, its clear how little it is used or understood.

Both of these skills are channeled/cast time. Vamp bane should be a bread-and-butter I agree, but given its the slowest projectile imaginable and it gets purged like crazy, well, it amounts to little.

I don't think its that complicated-- boost passives, make other abilities more front-loaded damage wise like you said, and the class will be right up there.

AbraXuSeXile

Nearly all templars offensive abilities either do nothing or can be avoided by anyone with 2 hands.

Edgar_Baerland

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Nearly all templars offensive abilities either do nothing or can be avoided by anyone with 2 hands.

LOLed

Cinbri

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Nearly all templars offensive abilities either do nothing or can be avoided by anyone with 2 hands.

LOLed

For me abraxus quote is 100% true.

Soris

Abraxus should stop spamming dark flare then

Mumyo

fare well Welkynd, i quit allready. Hope Templars may 1 day regain some strength but i doubt it.
Its not good PvP anymore when everything consists of 2 classes and tons of dodgrolls and chasing only.
Since 1.6 i spend 90% of the time running after sorcs for hours and get 1 shot as chasing a forever dodgerolling Nightblade that 1shots me too^^

Cinbri

Mumyo wrote: »

fare well Welkynd, i quit allready. Hope Templars may 1 day regain some strength but i doubt it.
Its not good PvP anymore when everything consists of 2 classes and tons of dodgrolls and chasing only.
Since 1.6 i spend 90% of the time running after sorcs for hours and get 1 shot as chasing a forever dodgerolling Nightblade that 1shots me too^^

There is still somewhere our place under the sun.

DanTeales_Inferno

We ARE the sun...although i think they took the "8 minutes for light to reach the earth" fact a bit to literally with the speed of some of our projectiles.

Soris

Mumyo wrote: »

fare well Welkynd, i quit allready. Hope Templars may 1 day regain some strength but i doubt it.
Its not good PvP anymore when everything consists of 2 classes and tons of dodgrolls and chasing only.
Since 1.6 i spend 90% of the time running after sorcs for hours and get 1 shot as chasing a forever dodgerolling Nightblade that 1shots me too^^

Damn man farewell I'm seeing every single templar brethen that I know, are either bending over one shot glass cannon builds or just quits completely to reroll another class. I've lost my desire to continue with this *** too.
Though, since last few weeks, I retired my templar and hanging in Blackwater Blade with a new templar and nightblade toons. That campaign is much, muuuch more fun and balanced evenly when you past over level 20s.

/edit typo

Rook_Master

This is a really good discussion so far. Great points being raised all around. I have just a few points to add.

The really good Templars know how to utilize class skills that have unique capabilities. Just watch Divine Cross and you can see that he makes great use of abilities like Eclipse, when fighting sorcerors for example. People also greatly underestimate skills like Channeled Focus, which add 400 magicka regen to your sheet, and it costs practically nothing.

Also, Templars have access to the only magicka-based charge. Now that this ability is finally getting fixed, it allows for some interesting new magicka melee builds. I've been playing around with using Proximity Det and Toppling Charge, and it really catches people off-guard. When people get low and start trying to dodge, boom, Radiant Destruction. It can't be dodged or reflected, it's really a wonderful ability.

Zenimax indicated that they were looking into increasing the projectile speed of Dark Flare and Sun Fire. That would help significantly, particularly Dark Flare. As someone else mentioned, this ability has high burst potential, but it is too easily dodged or mitigated.

Good Templar builds are possible, but need to utilize unique class abilities to their advantage. If you are comparing your Templar to a Sorc using some cookie-cutter destro dps build, yes you will fail.

Soris

Well, for me, dps is not much of a problem. Defence is the real problem.(1v1 dueling aside) When you got jumped by 2-3 enemy for example, you rarely can survive (without exceptions like nirn armor and dodge roll based builds)

It wasnt a problem before 1.6 where you can perfectly defend yourself in various ways.

Sure meta has changed and TTK decreased further for everyone. But it affects Templars and DKs more than other 2 classes since they have no escape. Originally they are "stand your ground" type of classes which is no longer possible due to the new meta.

Thus being a vampire for mist form or dodge roll build is kinda necessary for every templar solo roaming build. And that sucks hard imo

Edgar_Baerland

@DanTeales_Inferno Where is that *** LOL button!!

@Soris, I agree, I can dish out pretty solid damage and kill people easily, I lack defense agaisnt multiplie opponents. The screwing of sunshield really did us no favors; honestly my best way of surviving is just mashing my breath of life until someone else gets there to help lol.

I refuse to be a vampire just to have an escape/defense. Like we both said, we're supposed to be a stand-your-ground class like DK, but instead its sorc/NB=burst/escape classes, DK=stand your ground class, Templar... be-sure-to-have-allies class?

As for the people wanting to quit Temp... Honestly like I said originally I love this class, am still having loads of fun with it. I also enjoy being the underdog, and overcoming challenges. As fun as the other classes are its hard for me to spend time on my alts becuase I enjoy Temp so much.

tplink3r1

Rook_Master wrote: »

Also, Templars have access to the only magicka-based charge.

http://esohead.com/skills/18342-teleport-strike

Mumyo

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Also, Templars have access to the only magicka-based charge.

http://esohead.com/skills/18342-teleport-strike

dont forget about chains

Saft

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Nearly all templars offensive abilities either do nothing or can be avoided by anyone with 2 hands.

HAHAHA

Saft

Soris wrote: »

Well, for me, dps is not much of a problem. Defence is the real problem.(1v1 dueling aside) When you got jumped by 2-3 enemy for example, you rarely can survive (without exceptions like nirn armor and dodge roll based builds)

It wasnt a problem before 1.6 where you can perfectly defend yourself in various ways.

Sure meta has changed and TTK decreased further for everyone. But it affects Templars and DKs more than other 2 classes since they have no escape. Originally they are "stand your ground" type of classes which is no longer possible due to the new meta.

Thus being a vampire for mist form or dodge roll build is kinda necessary for every templar solo roaming build. And that sucks hard imo

All you said is 100% true and is excatly the way i evolved just to survive in this Gankfest Cyrodil is.

Since Blazing shield is weak now compared to ppls dps it does not work against more then 1 enemy.

That force us into
A: Werewolf/vampire Stamina dodge roll defense.
B: Vampire magica + resto staff Ward.

I tested both, and i like vampire magica the most.

I am not sure what to do but making 1 of our sun shield morphs base on magica could help to prop magica templars defence. But still we would be sitting ducks in PVP, just like DK. So i dunno perhaps problem lies at NB and Sorcs, if Sorcs did't have a spammable BoL and NB could't cloak out of almost everything, PVP would be alot more balanced.

Edgar_Baerland

@Saft yeah, there is a serious amount of praying that you just don't ganked becuase of a lack of any viable escape.

I know its pretty inelegant, but I usually just heal out of ganks until I can get a stun off, but it drains the ever loving crap out of my magicka, and often I just cant CC break fast enough. Even if I survive the initial gank I often lose the fight out of the massive resource disparity it leaves me with. But the times the guy proves to be a bad dueler it is satisfying as flump to mow him down after he fails the gank xD

Francescolg

There is still one build that lets you survive. I'll call it the blazing-shield-detonation build but since I do not share my build, I won't describe it ;-)

DanTeales_Inferno

I run in 5 light and 2 heavy, 2 nirn pieces and drop purifying ritual and channelled focus before every fight. This boosts the healing capabilites of breath of life, increases magicka regen and gives a nice armour/spell res buff as well as a HoT and purge. I only use one shield, blazing shield with 24k health (~6k shield) and i find im quite tanky at times.

I assume i run a variation of @Francescolg build where you prime the bomb, toppling charge in, ulti and puncturing sweep. If you get lucky with crits and burning light you deal a lot of dmg capable of denting even a sorcs health bar. For a more solo oriented build, vampires bane is nice (use it when on top of your opponent so they cant dodge it) as it gives a spell crit and spell dmg buff (templar passive), or you can slot another shield with magicka harness.

If anyone is interested, I have 1.5k spell dmg, 1.7k magicka regen (buffed to ~2.2k with channelled focus) which i find is a sweet spot for a versatile templar build. The 140% extra dmg from sweep on the nearest target does a very nice amount of dmg and the HoT just keeps you ticking over so no need for increased spell dmg. The large amount of regen allows for spamming of Blazing shield and Breath of Life to ward of those gankers. Im actually very happy with my templar atm and even removed jesus beam for now !