Remove Vet & Raise Level Cap Concept (OUTDATED)

F7sus4

Teargrants wrote: »

They did that, it was one of the stupidest moves they've made with the game. Now we have to grind through 14 vet ranks instead of 10.

Pro-tip: If you do the Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold quests plus Craglorn, you don't need to grind to VR14 at all. The complaint is only because people choose to.

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Sure, fair enough. Such a thing could exist directly with CPs as well perhaps, without needing the levels. How does this idea address the want for different types of Veteran content to be accessible at 50?
By which I mean the removal of the implied Silver -> Gold -> Craglorn -> PvP/Trials order so that it is possible and viable to do those things in any order. (Or in other words to not be forced into Silver and Gold to be viable for Craglorn, PvP and Trials.)

haven't they mentioned that future zones are going to be leveled to the player?

What would happen if they leveled Craglorn to the player? Or leveled silver and gold? Going through the main story and guild quests again is silly anyway but we could still do all the side missions and dungeons.

While we're at it, why not level all zones to the player. If they've figured out an effective way to do this in expansions why not apply that to the entire experience?

BBSooner

Merging VR in to the current character level system is the most likely outcome, their issue is a lack of fresh content. I could see them waiting to remove VR until Orsinium (still dunno why the name change, unless the first installment isn't as large of a scope as they originally teased), clockwork city, murkmire, etc.

idk

Gidorick wrote: »

I had touched on this a while back and I still haven't really understood why a particular game design mechanic would be a bad thing.

Instead of removing VET ranks why doesn't ZOS just convert VET ranks to regular ranks... and then add monthly increases to the level cap, so... the following would occur:

• Immediately raise level cap to 77 and convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level.
• Every month raise level cap by 1
• Every level earned past 50 earns the player 1 CP. This would be in addition to the way CPs are earned now.
• Level 50-100, attribute points are awarded every 2 levels. (52,54,56, etc.)
• Level 100+, attribute points are awarded every 5 levels. (105,110,115, etc.)

In 10 years, the level cap would be at 197, which isn't a ridiculously unattainable level. Players would be able grind their level every month through DLC or existing content.

This would keep players coming back for more, each and every month. Players would buy more XP pots to reach the next level more quickly. Levels would provide players with additional CP which, in the larger view of the 3600 CP, wouldn't make that big a difference.

The fact that the level cap raises by only one level would mean new players would be able to catch up to older players with just a bit of effort. Additionally, older players can continue to dominate those below them while they attempt to catch up.

The in-between levels (levels that do not award attribute points) could be used as gear requirements so while players might not get an attribute point for a particular level, they would be able to wear special gear because of the level, making the in-between levels more significant.

What would be the downside to such a regular level cap increase?

Making vet 14 into lvl 64 has been one method they have considered which would be the logical direction if they were to overlay vet ranks over something else. However, if it's just a change in name it's pointless since people have not enjoyed the poor design vet ranks were to begin with. Of course a new player wouldn't know the difference.

bucketheadklunk

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I had touched on this a while back and I still haven't really understood why a particular game design mechanic would be a bad thing.

Instead of removing VET ranks why doesn't ZOS just convert VET ranks to regular ranks... and then add monthly increases to the level cap, so... the following would occur:

• Immediately raise level cap to 77 and convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level.
• Every month raise level cap by 1
• Every level earned past 50 earns the player 1 CP. This would be in addition to the way CPs are earned now.
• Level 50-100, attribute points are awarded every 2 levels. (52,54,56, etc.)
• Level 100+, attribute points are awarded every 5 levels. (105,110,115, etc.)

In 10 years, the level cap would be at 197, which isn't a ridiculously unattainable level. Players would be able grind their level every month through DLC or existing content.

This would keep players coming back for more, each and every month. Players would buy more XP pots to reach the next level more quickly. Levels would provide players with additional CP which, in the larger view of the 3600 CP, wouldn't make that big a difference.

The fact that the level cap raises by only one level would mean new players would be able to catch up to older players with just a bit of effort. Additionally, older players can continue to dominate those below them while they attempt to catch up.

The in-between levels (levels that do not award attribute points) could be used as gear requirements so while players might not get an attribute point for a particular level, they would be able to wear special gear because of the level, making the in-between levels more significant.

What would be the downside to such a regular level cap increase?

Making vet 14 into lvl 64 has been one method they have considered which would be the logical direction if they were to overlay vet ranks over something else. However, if it's just a change in name it's pointless since people have not enjoyed the poor design vet ranks were to begin with. Of course a new player wouldn't know the difference.

Just convert the present levels to non-vet (level 64 or add one for us OCD people who like things that end in 0's and 5's) and leave it be. Its a simple solution. Leave the ranks (rather as vet14 or just 64) in place instead of reconfiguring everything. Its serves two purposes - one ESO doesn't have to do any number conversions because a v10 piece of gear just becomes a piece of level 60 gear and we don't have to reconvert our characters skills again, which is becoming beyond annoying.

Once the system is set we just move forward with CP and seasons of gear. Maybe they add ranks but the gear from future quests will make the biggest difference. Maybe they add in more CP choices, who knows. My biggest beef is eliminating the ranks we have and making us refigure everything again. Just leave it be and lets move forward.

NewBlacksmurf

No, no, no, no

Gidorick

Well, part of the issue people seem to have is the fact that each Vet rank takes so much time to obtain. Thats why I suggested each Vet Rank be split into 2 levels. This would functionally act the same as vet ranks do now but people would get that cool leveling animation and a new bar to fill up would appear. This would give the player the satisfaction of leveling. So that this leveling isn't completely useless, throw the player a CP for the level so they get a little treat for their work. Perceived progression supported by actual rewards.

Mashille

...No... Just... No...

ZOS are removing Veteran Ranks anyway.

Gidorick

@NewBlacksmurf and @keybaud. I ask in my original post why this would be a bad thing and from the answers so far people have mentioned:

- the need to remake gear
- power creep
- level gap

Do you have input as to why "no"?

Jando

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

Gidorick

that would also work @Jando! I was thinking more long term than just the immediate handling of the Veteran Rank removal.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf and @keybaud. I ask in my original post why this would be a bad thing and from the answers so far people have mentioned:

- the need to remake gear
- power creep
- level gap

Do you have input as to why "no"?

Yes I have a lot posted in approx 4 other threads this week alone

1. ZOS has begun a phased approach and needs to complete this
2. Champion levels replace VR levels, progression for vertical or whatever and should be the determining factor for skill,/stat progression, gear requirements.
3. Adding more levels is the problem that exists today and does not address or solve any issues which caused the start of the phased approach
4. People already feel separated and limited by VR levels, grouping 5 level limitations and content barriers that exist as only a time sync.

We don't know what ZOS will do but I'm predicting the final stage should wipe all VR levels completely.
As a character hits 50 they will then fall into champion point progression which should be where they gain the 14 or so skill/stat points on a per character basis which is A lot shorter than the VR exp

It would be nice if gear/equipment followed the VR to champ conversion
Vr1= cp 1-4
Vr2= cp 5-10
Vr3= cp 11-15
......
Vr14= cp 65-70

This keeps the work and progress of a Vr14 and their gear
The per character cp gain keeps the stat/skill gains

Other than that...nothing needs to be adjusted other than logging NPC levels

They can either change NPC to numeric or champion levels but that's pretty straight forward.

Anything else gets away too far what what the phased progress has started and further causing or complicates the systems that work today

Gidorick

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

Nice catch....what it should read as:
Gear /weapons/items that have VR requirements would change to....
-50+ cp level
or 50+cp+cp unique levels earned per character


The issue with VET levels are this:
-It causes a +5 level gap so many cant group using the system tools or they group manually and get exp rate reductions if over/under 5 vet levels (cp levels aren't counted as character levels so it fixes that)
- silver n gold quests are vet level locked by the level differences this separating players for no reason (kinda resembles the above) this discourages grouping because of the already existing phasing issue but now vet level differences prevent players from grouping with others for post 50 encounters.

-Vet levels were to provide vertical progression but now we have two vertical progression systems that work differently which causes uneeded confusion

-vet levels dont follow the character level exp rates of pre vet. Cp seem to do a better job based on the effort it takes to gain one level in silver n gold quests.


I tried to leave off personal or more opinionated reasons.
These tend to mess with the systems and create bugs and undesired player separation

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

The issue with VET levels are this:
-It causes a +5 level gap so many cant group using the system tools or they group manually and get exp rate reductions if over/under 5 vet levels (cp levels aren't counted as character levels so it fixes that)

I completely agree with this point. But I think it's a problem with the out leveling and not the vertical progression.

I really loathe that we stop getting XP for lower level mobs. Sure, if you're level 50 and you kill a level 4 mob you should only get like... 2 XP, but it should be SOMETHING. That XP should have a multiplier based on who you are grouped with. Off the top of my head:

Grouped with a character that is:
Less than 5 Levels below: XP Gain X1
6-10 levels below: XP Gain X2
10-20 levels below: XP Gain X3
20-35 levels below: XP Gain X4
35-55 levels below: XP Gain X5

No battle should be fruitless.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

The issue with VET levels are this:
-It causes a +5 level gap so many cant group using the system tools or they group manually and get exp rate reductions if over/under 5 vet levels (cp levels aren't counted as character levels so it fixes that)

I completely agree with this point. But I think it's a problem with the out leveling and not the vertical progression.

I really loathe that we stop getting XP for lower level mobs. Sure, if you're level 50 and you kill a level 4 mob you should only get like... 2 XP, but it should be SOMETHING. That XP should have a multiplier based on who you are grouped with. Off the top of my head:

Grouped with a character that is:
Less than 5 Levels below: XP Gain X1
6-10 levels below: XP Gain X2
10-20 levels below: XP Gain X3
20-35 levels below: XP Gain X4
35-55 levels below: XP Gain X5

No battle should be fruitless.

This reminds me of the WoW South Park parody quest for the Sword of Omens show

Instead of killing boars, it'll be killing mudcrabs lol (which are actually hard to kill at level)

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

The issue with VET levels are this:
-It causes a +5 level gap so many cant group using the system tools or they group manually and get exp rate reductions if over/under 5 vet levels (cp levels aren't counted as character levels so it fixes that)

I completely agree with this point. But I think it's a problem with the out leveling and not the vertical progression.

I really loathe that we stop getting XP for lower level mobs. Sure, if you're level 50 and you kill a level 4 mob you should only get like... 2 XP, but it should be SOMETHING. That XP should have a multiplier based on who you are grouped with. Off the top of my head:

Grouped with a character that is:
Less than 5 Levels below: XP Gain X1
6-10 levels below: XP Gain X2
10-20 levels below: XP Gain X3
20-35 levels below: XP Gain X4
35-55 levels below: XP Gain X5

No battle should be fruitless.

This reminds me of the WoW South Park parody quest for the Sword of Omens show

Instead of killing boars, it'll be killing mudcrabs lol (which are actually hard to kill at level)

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for all that @NewBlacksmurf! The idea of Champion Levels replacing VR just seems strange to me because Champion points is such a drastically different approach to leveling.

Wouldn't basing gear and equipment on CPs mean that players less than level 50 would be able to equip them CP are account wide, or will the requirement be level 50+CP? And if THAT's the case... wouldn't that mean an alt who is level 49 would get dramatically more powerful when they reach 50 and have all those CPs spent? Going from a level 49 sword to what would be the equivalent of a VR 14 sword is a pretty large jump! Especially when you include the idea that a player who is level 49 with 70 CP would gain 14 skill points upon reaching level 50.

Or would ZOS have to keep track of how many CP each character earns toward the total pool of CP? So that character, after earning 4 CP would have 74 CP but would be given "credit" for 4 of them toward Skill Points.

I guess mostly I just don't understand the "problem" that people had with Vet Levels. I get players feeling like it takes to long to level but the complaint that it creates a disparity between the levels is asinine to me.

Player: "It's not fair that he is such a higher level than me!"
Me: "Oh it's not fair that people who play more have progressed farther than you?"
Player: "Yea!"

The issue with VET levels are this:
-It causes a +5 level gap so many cant group using the system tools or they group manually and get exp rate reductions if over/under 5 vet levels (cp levels aren't counted as character levels so it fixes that)

I completely agree with this point. But I think it's a problem with the out leveling and not the vertical progression.

I really loathe that we stop getting XP for lower level mobs. Sure, if you're level 50 and you kill a level 4 mob you should only get like... 2 XP, but it should be SOMETHING. That XP should have a multiplier based on who you are grouped with. Off the top of my head:

Grouped with a character that is:
Less than 5 Levels below: XP Gain X1
6-10 levels below: XP Gain X2
10-20 levels below: XP Gain X3
20-35 levels below: XP Gain X4
35-55 levels below: XP Gain X5

No battle should be fruitless.

This reminds me of the WoW South Park parody quest for the Sword of Omens show

Instead of killing boars, it'll be killing mudcrabs lol (which are actually hard to kill at level)

ROFL!

Dionysusjones

Gidorick wrote: »

I had touched on this a while back and I still haven't really understood why a particular game design mechanic would be a bad thing.

Instead of removing VET ranks why doesn't ZOS just convert VET ranks to regular ranks... and then add monthly increases to the level cap, so... the following would occur:

• Immediately raise level cap to 77 and convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level.
• Every month raise level cap by 1
• Every level earned past 50 earns the player 1 CP. This would be in addition to the way CPs are earned now.
• Level 50-100, attribute points are awarded every 2 levels. (52,54,56, etc.)
• Level 100+, attribute points are awarded every 5 levels. (105,110,115, etc.)

In 10 years, the level cap would be at 197, which isn't a ridiculously unattainable level. Players would be able grind their level every month through DLC or existing content.

This would keep players coming back for more, each and every month. Players would buy more XP pots to reach the next level more quickly. Levels would provide players with additional CP which, in the larger view of the 3600 CP, wouldn't make that big a difference.

The fact that the level cap raises by only one level would mean new players would be able to catch up to older players with just a bit of effort. Additionally, older players can continue to dominate those below them while they attempt to catch up.

The in-between levels (levels that do not award attribute points) could be used as gear requirements so while players might not get an attribute point for a particular level, they would be able to wear special gear because of the level, making the in-between levels more significant.

What would be the downside to such a regular level cap increase?

Proof that this forum needs a downvote button desperatly. This isnt WoW or a WoW clone. please please go away. If I was the CEO of ZOS i would demand that every employee pour bleach in thier eyes so they cant read the incredibly aweful ideas that are spewn on this forum day after day.

ZOS please stay true to YOUR vision. Dont let the MMO locust who devour content and then mass exodus to the next "new hotness" dictate what direction your game goes. These people are allready predetermined visitors who will be leaving reguardles of what you do to apease them

Gidorick

Dionysusjones wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I had touched on this a while back and I still haven't really understood why a particular game design mechanic would be a bad thing.

Instead of removing VET ranks why doesn't ZOS just convert VET ranks to regular ranks... and then add monthly increases to the level cap, so... the following would occur:

• Immediately raise level cap to 77 and convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level.
• Every month raise level cap by 1
• Every level earned past 50 earns the player 1 CP. This would be in addition to the way CPs are earned now.
• Level 50-100, attribute points are awarded every 2 levels. (52,54,56, etc.)
• Level 100+, attribute points are awarded every 5 levels. (105,110,115, etc.)

In 10 years, the level cap would be at 197, which isn't a ridiculously unattainable level. Players would be able grind their level every month through DLC or existing content.

This would keep players coming back for more, each and every month. Players would buy more XP pots to reach the next level more quickly. Levels would provide players with additional CP which, in the larger view of the 3600 CP, wouldn't make that big a difference.

The fact that the level cap raises by only one level would mean new players would be able to catch up to older players with just a bit of effort. Additionally, older players can continue to dominate those below them while they attempt to catch up.

The in-between levels (levels that do not award attribute points) could be used as gear requirements so while players might not get an attribute point for a particular level, they would be able to wear special gear because of the level, making the in-between levels more significant.

What would be the downside to such a regular level cap increase?

Proof that this forum needs a downvote button desperatly. This isnt WoW or a WoW clone. please please go away. If I was the CEO of ZOS i would demand that every employee pour bleach in thier eyes so they cant read the incredibly aweful ideas that are spewn on this forum day after day.

ZOS please stay true to YOUR vision. Dont let the MMO locust who devour content and then mass exodus to the next "new hotness" dictate what direction your game goes. These people are allready predetermined visitors who will be leaving reguardles of what you do to apease them

How about instead of insulting me you tell me what's wrong with the idea? Be constructive instead of:

• Telling me to go away
• Call the ideas awful and akin them to vomit
• Suggest I am a locust
• Assume I will soon be leaving

I am on here giving ideas that I believe would benefit ESO, I'm looking for a discussion. What you have provided isn't a discussion. It's juvenile prattle.

Blud

I hate the idea of continuous level cap increases.

Horizontal character development is better in my opinion. Add new skill lines, new types of gear, etc. I spend enough gold on re-specs and new gear. I don't want to get a new yellow set every time the freaking level cap is increased. That is just all the worst of what WoW was about.

Jando

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

Vizier

level every month? LOL Think the game is Grind Grind now for new players and new alts.

Forget it. This is a ridiculous idea IMO.


They need to just get rid of the Vet levels. Reduce all gear to 50 keep it at 50 from time to time, RARELY, increase levels. Increased skill and power is intended to be within the champ point system.

Gidorick

I feel like people think the game is a grind now because the progression points are SO far apart. Going from one VR to the next seems so daunting. This concept tries to address that. It also attempts to feed that need to progress.

I respect that people don't care for the idea, and maybe it's because I'm not a MMO veteran, but I don't understand whats bad about it.

It's it because people like to rush to max level then stand there feeling awesome & continued progression will ruin that feeling. The continued progression effect on gear could be mitigated and doesn't have to require new month sets.

Could you explain why continued progression is ridiculous @Vizier? This is a serious question. I would like to understand.

NewBlacksmurf

No again

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No again

Lol. Hey.

I've thought about the whole CP requirement for gear. I'm not a fan, here's why:

Add stated before, a player with 200CP could level a seperate character to level 50 and then boom. They can now wear gear that requires lvl50+200cp.

The idea of individual CP earnings being tracked would work but seems needlessly clumsy... Each chatacter would have to then have their own CP level? Which is seperate to how many CPs they have in total.... that just seems like levels under a different name to me.

I think CP progression should remain Tangential to actual levels.

And the idea of additional levels would be, for the most part, a cosmetic mechanic. With the following exceptions:

-Players would gain an additional CP every level gained.
-Players would gain periodic Skill Points.

gear could have level requirements but it doesnt have to be every single level. From level 50-100 gear could be rated every other level, but odd numbers so every level the player gets armor or a skill point (51,53,55,...). After that it could be every 3 levels (seasonal gear?)

Is the issue the perception of more levels. That people can't stand not constantly being at the top?

Theosis

Teargrants wrote: »

They did that, it was one of the stupidest moves they've made with the game. Now we have to grind through 14 vet ranks instead of 10.

Especially when they add levels with no content that can level the character.

(Can't count craglorn due to the need for many people and nobody able to help in the guild because they have already done it.)

Robbmrp

This is a really good idea and should be implemented. People like progression and while CP is progression being stuck at V14 isn't. There's no reason that they couldn't have levels go higher for sure. This is a MMO anyway and the idea is to keep people playing for years.

Seriously, who among us would still be here in 3 years at V14 with only CP progression? I doubt I would be.

We should NOT have gear leveling though. By that I mean owned gear that levels up when your character does.

Gear should scale to the level of your character at the time of drop. So if your running a level 75 dungeon, the items that drop are level 75. If you want a level 80 helm, rerun the dungeon at level 80. Dropped loot should scale to each player in the group. So level 75's get level 75 loot, level 78's get level 78 loot and so forth. This removes the need to have people at exact levels to group. You could have groups of all levels of 60's or 70's and complete a dungeon. It should be more based on a team effort and not how much DPS your level can do.

Theosis

I really do like this idea. Adding levels can be very daunting though when it comes to the new players.

When I tried out a few of the other MMOs I felt like I would take a very long time to catch up to those who have been playing the game for several month or even years.

Another idea could be still earning XP but then turning that XP into stats.

Turn 1 mil XP into 20 stamina, health, or mana. The addition would be known to use and how we apply that stats but a new players would just say... well I only need to reach level 50 to catch up to those new players who might otherwise leave due to such high levels would stay and play with us rather than go find a game that doesn't seam to daunting a task.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No again

Lol. Hey.

I've thought about the whole CP requirement for gear. I'm not a fan, here's why:

Add stated before, a player with 200CP could level a seperate character to level 50 and then boom. They can now wear gear that requires lvl50+200cp.

The idea of individual CP earnings being tracked would work but seems needlessly clumsy... Each chatacter would have to then have their own CP level? Which is seperate to how many CPs they have in total.... that just seems like levels under a different name to me.

I think CP progression should remain Tangential to actual levels.

And the idea of additional levels would be, for the most part, a cosmetic mechanic. With the following exceptions:

-Players would gain an additional CP every level gained.
-Players would gain periodic Skill Points.

gear could have level requirements but it doesnt have to be every single level. From level 50-100 gear could be rated every other level, but odd numbers so every level the player gets armor or a skill point (51,53,55,...). After that it could be every 3 levels (seasonal gear?)

Is the issue the perception of more levels. That people can't stand not constantly being at the top?

The CP requirement for gear can follow my idea of each unique character achieving their own CP so
Per character 14 achieved CP gives the Version of today's VR stat and skill bonus AND follows the VR gear and item requirements

I think this is fair and it solves the insane grind but balances the idea of a new 50 being equivalent to a veteran 50

It removes the insane VR grind to be viable but keeps a realistic progression on a per character basis.

I think it works but solves the issues that ppl suggest ZOS are facing to finalize the removal of VR

Each character wouldn't need their own cp levels as is the problem with the VR system.
Tracking the individual levels is no different than today as each character earns cp independently. If needed add a small numeric in the character UI

Adding numerical to replace VR is a bigger issue.
Unless they make a very big expansion with new content and 200+ quests and three + new large PvE zones it's the same issue we have today.


Some of the issues with VR are
-separates people
-doesn't work with the grouping tools or playing with other friends who are level 50
-the grind is too huge
-the VR system and Champion system shouldn't co-exist
-adding more levels to the max character level is what got us into this VR mess