Remove dwarven spheres from Cyrodiil

Baphomet

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

Vis

Baphomet wrote: »

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

They are a random proc from the Engine Guardian set. They may be annoying, but since they are from gear (which costs slots that could be used for different effects), they remain a viable build option.

Edit: it is not the only set that randomly procs pets either.

Ezareth

Baphomet wrote: »

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

Huh?

What targetting issue? I've never hit a Dwarven Sphere that I didn't want to.

Docmandu

They added target locking to the game many many many many moons ago, ie. before release. Unless you didn't know about this, I can't see the issue.

Snit

Anytime something troubles you in PvP, you can ask people or watch others to see how they handle the issue, or you can proceed directly to "post nerf demand." This thread fits right in

Lava_Croft

Just make the spheres unable to be a target.

Snit

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just make the spheres unable to be a target.

There are times you might want to target them (their beam can be interrupted).

ToRelax

One of those guys who always Soul Assault the sphere ? Yaya, not as easy as one would think...

Baphomet

The soft-lock system doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll hit the target you have locked on to. If fact, your jesus beam might target someone 80 degrees to you left even though you have your locked target right in front of you, just to give you an example.

Fact of the matter is that hit boxes mess up the targeting system and has done so since beta may 2013.

Sorc pets one can live with since no one uses them in PvP and the atronoch is acceptable too because it adds a nice tactical aspect to the sorc class - but to have the dwarven spheres popping up everywhere ever so often is downright bad design.

As someone mentioned, remove their hitboxes so that they have no collision (not sure if they do now) and thus become untargetable. That's a good solution right there.

SRIBES

Where's my LOL button?

Shunravi

It's a tactical defensive random proc. If you can't aim that's on you.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO

I much prefer it the way it is now. This way, when the sphere procs, I can quickly eliminate it. One less heal keeping the enemy in the fight

trimsic_ESO

IMHO, all these helm + shoulder PVE sets should have been disabled in Cyrodiil.

- Valkyn Skoria's proc is just insane, and seems to contribute to the lag.
- Engine Guardian's regeneration proc is so high in value that it's a source of game imbalance
- Blood Spawn's passive regeneration is just great for one piece of armor, and the 2 items set bonus is just amazing

Furthermore, if we consider the position of a player who does not like to PvE - because she or he came on ESO for the PVP part of the game only, we can honestly say that this player has either to accept the competitive disadvantage of not having such a set or to resign and farm PVE instances until the set of the right trait / right armor finally drops.

This is not fun, really not, and such sets are a source of imbalance in Cyrodiil. They should have never been allowed in Cyrodiil, seriously.

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

To me, the itemization part of the game is one the most important ESO's weakness: we have to wait for a very long time before we can get a patch with new stuff to loot or new stuff to craft, and we are forced to play a part of the game we may not like in order to finally obtain a stuff that can break the fragile balance of the game. Well...

klink012

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

IMHO, all these helm + shoulder PVE sets should have been disabled in Cyrodiil.

- Valkyn Skoria's proc is just insane, and seems to contribute to the lag.
- Engine Guardian's regeneration proc is so high in value that it's a source of game imbalance
- Blood Spawn's passive regeneration is just great for one piece of armor, and the 2 items set bonus is just amazing

Furthermore, if we consider the position of a player who does not like to PvE - because she or he came on ESO for the PVP part of the game only, we can honestly say that this player has either to accept the competitive disadvantage of not having such a set or to resign and farm PVE instances until the set of the right trait / right armor finally drops.

This is not fun, really not, and such sets are a source of imbalance in Cyrodiil. They should have never been allowed in Cyrodiil, seriously.

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

To me, the itemization part of the game is one the most important ESO's weakness: we have to wait for a very long time before we can get a patch with new stuff to loot or new stuff to craft, and we are forced to play a part of the game we may not like in order to finally obtain a stuff that can break the fragile balance of the game. Well...

Completely agree and very well said.

To add about itemization. WHY isn't jewel craft in ??

akray21

Baphomet wrote: »

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

No, I enjoy getting my free heal from reapers mark on them... LOL

gibous

Get rid of the Maw of Infernal set as well? That's an even larger thing to hide behind.

Making conditional rules about where sets work and where they don't just seems silly. Reminds me of being a kid when during games, the untalented kids would try to invent new rules to make up for their lack of ability.

Ezareth

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just make the spheres unable to be a target.

This is what they need to do with freaking Walls and Siege. I rage hardcore when I accidentally select a wall/piece of siege and have to mash my escape and reacquire the correct target.

Ezareth

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

IMHO, all these helm + shoulder PVE sets should have been disabled in Cyrodiil.

- Valkyn Skoria's proc is just insane, and seems to contribute to the lag.
- Engine Guardian's regeneration proc is so high in value that it's a source of game imbalance
- Blood Spawn's passive regeneration is just great for one piece of armor, and the 2 items set bonus is just amazing

Furthermore, if we consider the position of a player who does not like to PvE - because she or he came on ESO for the PVP part of the game only, we can honestly say that this player has either to accept the competitive disadvantage of not having such a set or to resign and farm PVE instances until the set of the right trait / right armor finally drops.

This is not fun, really not, and such sets are a source of imbalance in Cyrodiil. They should have never been allowed in Cyrodiil, seriously.

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

To me, the itemization part of the game is one the most important ESO's weakness: we have to wait for a very long time before we can get a patch with new stuff to loot or new stuff to craft, and we are forced to play a part of the game we may not like in order to finally obtain a stuff that can break the fragile balance of the game. Well...

Competitive disadvantage? Absurd. The sets are good but hardly put someone at an advantage over someone who doesn't use it.

In fact I can think of several examples where the use of a Dwarven sphere puts you at a *Disadvantage* when fighting a physical stamina player. If you're not sure what I'm talking about look at the Passives in the champion tree.

As far as PvE sets, the guys who dont want to PvP can buy every piece they need. Hardcore PvErs make a ton of gold that feed my Tri-pot habit.

SienneYviete

Ezareth wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

IMHO, all these helm + shoulder PVE sets should have been disabled in Cyrodiil.

- Valkyn Skoria's proc is just insane, and seems to contribute to the lag.
- Engine Guardian's regeneration proc is so high in value that it's a source of game imbalance
- Blood Spawn's passive regeneration is just great for one piece of armor, and the 2 items set bonus is just amazing

Furthermore, if we consider the position of a player who does not like to PvE - because she or he came on ESO for the PVP part of the game only, we can honestly say that this player has either to accept the competitive disadvantage of not having such a set or to resign and farm PVE instances until the set of the right trait / right armor finally drops.

This is not fun, really not, and such sets are a source of imbalance in Cyrodiil. They should have never been allowed in Cyrodiil, seriously.

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

To me, the itemization part of the game is one the most important ESO's weakness: we have to wait for a very long time before we can get a patch with new stuff to loot or new stuff to craft, and we are forced to play a part of the game we may not like in order to finally obtain a stuff that can break the fragile balance of the game. Well...

Competitive disadvantage? Absurd. The sets are good but hardly put someone at an advantage over someone who doesn't use it.

In fact I can think of several examples where the use of a Dwarven sphere puts you at a *Disadvantage* when fighting a physical stamina player. If you're not sure what I'm talking about look at the Passives in the champion tree.

As far as PvE sets, the guys who dont want to PvP can buy every piece they need. Hardcore PvErs make a ton of gold that feed my Tri-pot habit.

I tried to give you two agrees but sadly I failed....... pretty much this /thread

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

Huh?

What targetting issue? I've never hit a Dwarven Sphere that I didn't want to.

AngersRevenge

Cyrodiil is not competitive PvP. It's a zerg fest.

Docmandu

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

Unfortunately PvE players were up in arms when you could buy the PvE drops from a PvE player.. as a PvP player, I wish I could buy an engine guardian set or trade it for a Shadow Walker ring/necklace. Alas.. PvP player HAS to do PvE to get the set, whereas a PvE player can just spend coin to get the PvP items.

Shunravi

Docmandu wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

Unfortunately PvE players were up in arms when you could buy the PvE drops from a PvE player.. as a PvP player, I wish I could buy an engine guardian set or trade it for a Shadow Walker ring/necklace. Alas.. PvP player HAS to do PvE to get the set, whereas a PvE player can just spend coin to get the PvP items.

I will trade you one of every undaunted 2 piece and every bop item on my mule for one of everything from the PvP vendors.


Of course, I do PvP myself so it's not to necessary....

Attorneyatlawl

Vis wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

They are a random proc from the Engine Guardian set. They may be annoying, but since they are from gear (which costs slots that could be used for different effects), they remain a viable build option.

Edit: it is not the only set that randomly procs pets either.

This. Tab target to make sure your attacks hit a specific enemy if you want .

trimsic_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

IMHO, all these helm + shoulder PVE sets should have been disabled in Cyrodiil.

- Valkyn Skoria's proc is just insane, and seems to contribute to the lag.
- Engine Guardian's regeneration proc is so high in value that it's a source of game imbalance
- Blood Spawn's passive regeneration is just great for one piece of armor, and the 2 items set bonus is just amazing

Furthermore, if we consider the position of a player who does not like to PvE - because she or he came on ESO for the PVP part of the game only, we can honestly say that this player has either to accept the competitive disadvantage of not having such a set or to resign and farm PVE instances until the set of the right trait / right armor finally drops.

This is not fun, really not, and such sets are a source of imbalance in Cyrodiil. They should have never been allowed in Cyrodiil, seriously.

The other way round is also perfectly valid: why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

To me, the itemization part of the game is one the most important ESO's weakness: we have to wait for a very long time before we can get a patch with new stuff to loot or new stuff to craft, and we are forced to play a part of the game we may not like in order to finally obtain a stuff that can break the fragile balance of the game. Well...

Competitive disadvantage? Absurd. The sets are good but hardly put someone at an advantage over someone who doesn't use it.

In fact I can think of several examples where the use of a Dwarven sphere puts you at a *Disadvantage* when fighting a physical stamina player. If you're not sure what I'm talking about look at the Passives in the champion tree.

As far as PvE sets, the guys who dont want to PvP can buy every piece they need. Hardcore PvErs make a ton of gold that feed my Tri-pot habit.

You should be more specific, so people can understand what you're talking about. Give some examples of the disadvantages of the Dwarven Sphere, and then compare them to the advantages of this set. Then there are three possible conclusions:
1) there are more disadvantages than advantages
2) it's the other round
3) it depends on the class and role you play

What I can see is that a lot of sorcs are using this set when they run a build designed for small scale combat. There must be some advantages no? Or they are just stupid.

Domander

Ezareth wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Because they screw up competitive PvP due to their hit boxes cluttering the PvP environment.

With the targeting system being what it is (and I like it), bringing something like these into PvP has to be one of the poorest choices I've seen in a long time.

Please rethink these constructs and how the mess up the targeting.

It's bad enough that sorcs can hide behind atronachs and pets - we don't need this, too.

Huh?

What targetting issue? I've never hit a Dwarven Sphere that I didn't want to.

It happens a lot of you go melee...

I see it as a bonus to using that set though

Attorneyatlawl

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

You should be more specific, so people can understand what you're talking about. Give some examples of the disadvantages of the Dwarven Sphere, and then compare them to the advantages of this set. Then there are three possible conclusions:
1) there are more disadvantages than advantages
2) it's the other round
3) it depends on the class and role you play

What I can see is that a lot of sorcs are using this set when they run a build designed for small scale combat. There must be some advantages no? Or they are just stupid.

Not sure if this is a sarcastic post or not, but just in case it isn't...

Stamina players have charges/leaps which they can readily use on the spheres even if the enemy is out of sight, because they spheres don't follow them until they're around 15 meters away from their master, and then just get back into that range again. You can get some freebies for simply bashing them from the champion system, as @Ezareth already spelled out. You can tab target the enemy in the first place, so targeting is a complete non-issue. The set bonus takes up two gear slots, and the one-piece bonus is health regen, not particularly useful to someone using it as a magicka build. The spheres don't allow you to sneak without being spotted with ease. The spheres also give a free ton of stamina regeneration to anyone with a two-handed weapon for killing them (which is easy to do) from the 2h passive.

Those are the disadvantages.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Why should the PVE players be forced to PVP in Cyrodiil in order to obtain the best DPS stuff in the game, such as Morag Tong, or Shadow Walker to name a few. Ok, a PVE player can buy this stuff because it's not bound when picked up. But still, it costs a lot of money, and such a constraint does not make sense to me.

PVE and PVP stuffs should be entirely separated, so they can have unique bonuses perfectly adapted to the PVE or PVP situation.

I don't know. Why should a PVP player be "forced", and I use that term loosely since you can choose whether or not you want to earn the rewards, to go do dungeon pledges, raids, the entire main story quest through the end of the second veteran faction, and PVE to level up in the first place (as PVP EXP gains are just above zero in comparison to PVE percentage-wise)? Conversely, why should a PVE player be "forced" to PVP (again used EXTREMELY loosely as it's a ridiculous word to use for it) to get the skill line passives, skill points from earning alliance ranks, etc.? Because neither of them are "forced" to do anything to do well in the gameplay type they like.

Why should it be separated? It shouldn't. You may as well make a new pair of games called Elder Scrolls PVP MMO and Elder Scrolls PVE MMO then. Most people playing the game long-term like the game, not just one small part of it, or they wouldn't be playing still . I wouldn't want to get nothing of use for going to do one of the major things I like, and be missing out on big rewards for doing one of the major things I don't want to do right at the moment, because of some arbitrary separation. The rewards server to make sure you are getting something worthwhile for yourself when playing the majority of the time, and to encourage people to try out more of the game. Separating them would be pointless, and actually deeply harm ESO. There isn't any spectacularly insane reward you can only get from PVP or PVE that makes some massive imbalance to warrant caring to, either.

Ezareth

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"trimsic_ESO wrote: »

You should be more specific, so people can understand what you're talking about. Give some examples of the disadvantages of the Dwarven Sphere, and then compare them to the advantages of this set. Then there are three possible conclusions:
1) there are more disadvantages than advantages
2) it's the other round
3) it depends on the class and role you play

What I can see is that a lot of sorcs are using this set when they run a build designed for small scale combat. There must be some advantages no? Or they are just stupid.

Not sure if this is a sarcastic post or not, but just in case it isn't...

Stamina players have charges/leaps which they can readily use on the spheres even if the enemy is out of sight, because they spheres don't follow them until they're around 15 meters away from their master, and then just get back into that range again. You can get some freebies for simply bashing them from the champion system, as @Ezareth already spelled out. You can tab target the enemy in the first place, so targeting is a complete non-issue. The set bonus takes up two gear slots, and the one-piece bonus is health regen, not particularly useful to someone using it as a magicka build. The spheres don't allow you to sneak without being spotted with ease. The spheres also give a free ton of stamina regeneration to anyone with a two-handed weapon for killing them (which is easy to do) from the 2h passive.

Those are the disadvantages.

They also give free heals to nightblades when they die if they cast mark on them.

Attorneyatlawl

Ezareth wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"trimsic_ESO wrote: »

You should be more specific, so people can understand what you're talking about. Give some examples of the disadvantages of the Dwarven Sphere, and then compare them to the advantages of this set. Then there are three possible conclusions:
1) there are more disadvantages than advantages
2) it's the other round
3) it depends on the class and role you play

What I can see is that a lot of sorcs are using this set when they run a build designed for small scale combat. There must be some advantages no? Or they are just stupid.

Not sure if this is a sarcastic post or not, but just in case it isn't...

Stamina players have charges/leaps which they can readily use on the spheres even if the enemy is out of sight, because they spheres don't follow them until they're around 15 meters away from their master, and then just get back into that range again. You can get some freebies for simply bashing them from the champion system, as @Ezareth already spelled out. You can tab target the enemy in the first place, so targeting is a complete non-issue. The set bonus takes up two gear slots, and the one-piece bonus is health regen, not particularly useful to someone using it as a magicka build. The spheres don't allow you to sneak without being spotted with ease. The spheres also give a free ton of stamina regeneration to anyone with a two-handed weapon for killing them (which is easy to do) from the 2h passive.

Those are the disadvantages.

They also give free heals to nightblades when they die if they cast mark on them.

Let's also not forget a free 25% damage boost buff! Goes along nicely with my 8% Grim Focus morphs' buff, while I unload Soul Harvest on the enemy itself .

Baphomet

Tab-targeting doesn't make the game ignore cluttering hitboxes.

PeggymoeXD

0/10 troll