Yeah, more QQ about Radiant

pppontus

Kas wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

I'm not looking for tips, tricks, excuses for combat logs etc. it's just showcasing another scenario where Jesus beam isn't working properly.

Again, not looking for counters. Showing a scenario where it still isn't working properly.

Are there counters, yes.

Should I have to counter an "execute" as a stamina build with a purge that costs half my mana at nearly full health? No.

Should I teleport through that wall and bash him? I guess so?

RD is blockable, btw
But since doding/BoL'ing around is all that peopel do for def nowadays, RD is hated so much.
What kind of stamina build do you play? NB can cloak, templar has a cheaper purge through PR, etc.

Anyway, the LoS (through wall) needs to be fixed so everyone can interrupt properly. Whoever choses to neither run pruge nor a ranged interrupt should be punished, though.

To be fair, a lot of Templars really don't do anything other than continually spam it so even if you purge, purge, purge you will still die because they instantly recast it. If you can bash / interrupt it's fine because they get stunned for a bit, but purging it is not always a good option. It will still tick every time they reapply it and you have to use up all your cooldowns on purging it again, most of the time while also trying to fight other people..

Baphomet

Didn't read through all the thread, but the OP screenshot proves nothing, and I've had it happened to me as well - but there's an explanation.

As someone mentioned, if it's just that one player hitting you and he only uses this one ability, the total damage of multiple attacks will stack and show as one of the death recap.

The death recap screen shot is exactly what will happen if a single templar beams you and you continiously try to counter-heal out of it, so to speak.

It's been a long time since I've seen a jesus beam break 13k dmg in game, and that's a long channel, remember. Seem like they have reached a good state for this ability damage-wise.

Well, I hard pressed to complaint about it when we have snipes, wrecking, shards etc. still hitting for 15-20k dmg a pop - and non-stealthed surprise attacks for 10k.

At least you can block jesus beam now; you can interupt/purge it, LoS can be broken to the same extend as soul assault, snipe and overload and you can shadow cloak it.

Furthermore, if you pop a damage shield, it only ticks as if you have FULL HEALTH until the shield is worn down - regardless of your actual health. So popping shields like healing ward or igneous shield are direct counters to its execute.

olsborg

The main reason I think its OP is because its undodgeable, has insane range and most often hits for WAY more then other executes. And if youre unlucky enough to be mid dodge while bein in execute range(hp wise) you cant purge it in time before youre dead. All other executes are dodgeable, blockable and/or dont have that kindof range.

Kas

pppontus wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

I'm not looking for tips, tricks, excuses for combat logs etc. it's just showcasing another scenario where Jesus beam isn't working properly.

Again, not looking for counters. Showing a scenario where it still isn't working properly.

Are there counters, yes.

Should I have to counter an "execute" as a stamina build with a purge that costs half my mana at nearly full health? No.

Should I teleport through that wall and bash him? I guess so?

RD is blockable, btw
But since doding/BoL'ing around is all that peopel do for def nowadays, RD is hated so much.
What kind of stamina build do you play? NB can cloak, templar has a cheaper purge through PR, etc.

Anyway, the LoS (through wall) needs to be fixed so everyone can interrupt properly. Whoever choses to neither run pruge nor a ranged interrupt should be punished, though.

To be fair, a lot of Templars really don't do anything other than continually spam it so even if you purge, purge, purge you will still die because they instantly recast it. If you can bash / interrupt it's fine because they get stunned for a bit, but purging it is not always a good option. It will still tick every time they reapply it and you have to use up all your cooldowns on purging it again, most of the time while also trying to fight other people..

i just cast crushing shock on a templar that uses it.
venom arrow works, too. so do all forms of charges and stun because the templar won't be blocking when using the beam.

purge is for when you're escaping and to get rid off it despite LoS issues

pppontus

Kas wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

I'm not looking for tips, tricks, excuses for combat logs etc. it's just showcasing another scenario where Jesus beam isn't working properly.

Again, not looking for counters. Showing a scenario where it still isn't working properly.

Are there counters, yes.

Should I have to counter an "execute" as a stamina build with a purge that costs half my mana at nearly full health? No.

Should I teleport through that wall and bash him? I guess so?

RD is blockable, btw
But since doding/BoL'ing around is all that peopel do for def nowadays, RD is hated so much.
What kind of stamina build do you play? NB can cloak, templar has a cheaper purge through PR, etc.

Anyway, the LoS (through wall) needs to be fixed so everyone can interrupt properly. Whoever choses to neither run pruge nor a ranged interrupt should be punished, though.

To be fair, a lot of Templars really don't do anything other than continually spam it so even if you purge, purge, purge you will still die because they instantly recast it. If you can bash / interrupt it's fine because they get stunned for a bit, but purging it is not always a good option. It will still tick every time they reapply it and you have to use up all your cooldowns on purging it again, most of the time while also trying to fight other people..

i just cast crushing shock on a templar that uses it.
venom arrow works, too. so do all forms of charges and stun because the templar won't be blocking when using the beam.

purge is for when you're escaping and to get rid off it despite LoS issues

I'm aware how to counter beams of death, and most of the times it's easy. Obviously in a 1v1 scenario it's a death sentence for the Templar to even think about radiant, it's just annoying they way it works if you're outnumbered as you have to actively counter it quickly (especially with 3 templars all spamming it) or it will just instantly blow you up once you get low. It's pretty much comparable to the sneak snipers, sitting in stealth 30m away and oneshotting people who are already outnumbered

It's not unbalanced, it's just cheesy and annoying. Met a team of templars who were jesus beam ganking people off their horses, needless to say I remembered the names and hunted them down over and over the entire day.

But yeah, ZOS wants everyone to run with a train so it's probably well balanced for that.

Oh well, my mission to murder all the 100% hp jesus beam spammers until they don't want to play ESO anymore shall continue.

technohic

Baconlad wrote: »

You have bad taste in humor friend. Your title is offensive. But....i am a templar, I use the beam, and yes it is deffinetly still broken, although not ALWAYS. The line of sight for beam will break my beam 90% of the time. And on a very rare occasion, I can execute a player at even 100% health. I believe there's a skill or ability that the enemy uses to trick the beam into thinking its in execute range

I wonder if it is triggering off shield health. Although, I don't think 26k over 3.6 seconds is that big of deal. At that point, maybe you should do some heals or throw up a fresh shield. Can't just ignore it when it tickles at first.

EDIT: Just saw the ops post that it happened in a single second. That would be a serious bug and we need to get some footage and testing at least to even be able to address that. Otherwise; whats the answer? Nerf it to hell so it only works for whoever figures out how to do this on purpose?

earth_angel

I am not exactly sure of this but it seems to me that there are sometimes a lag on health bars. I have experienced that as a healer in dungeon with my gf screaming to heal her when I can see her Health bar full (or the reverse).

It could be that health bar info lag sometimes on some specific clients making someone in execute range from the executionner point of view and not from the victim point of view. In that case, radiant oppression being a channeled execution might trigger an exploit without the user realising it (exploiting the lag).

Other possible explanation : the same day I had to log out after a battle because my character was permanently CCed (I could move and CC break but use no skill and was again CCed). It seems the effect on my character never stopped. if this can happen with a CC it might happen for other status, for example locking my character in execution range for radiant destruction.

earth_angel

Francescolg wrote: »

There are death recaps showing weapon-attacks for 25k, DK with Molten Weapons for example, spec'd for magic/weapon dmg fire staff / bow AND that is in one shot (3 second preparation on heavy attack).

These numbers are "wanted by ZoS" ;-) see 1.6.x patch notes

Time to kill it too short these days. I reckon that when I play I generally get killed by crystal fragment or lethal arrows. Also nb and lava whip users can do insane burst damage (8K-10K attacks on a spammable instant cast skill with very quick animation...). I think every class has now an OP attack.

Snit

It's interesting to see how different people perceive various abilities as OP. RD ceased to be an issue for my sorc when I switched one morph (from Force Pulse to Crushing Shock). No spell is easier to track back to its source than RD.

I would imagine it's quite different, however, for those whose build is not focused around an insta-cast ranged interrupt.

ToRelax

Snit wrote: »

It's interesting to see how different people perceive various abilities as OP. RD ceased to be an issue for my sorc when I switched one morph (from Force Pulse to Crushing Shock). No spell is easier to track back to its source than RD.

I would imagine it's quite different, however, for those whose build is not focused around an insta-cast ranged interrupt.

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

Snit

ToRelax wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

If three people are attacking me at once, everything is a potential problem. I just don't consider that to be a game balance issue.

pppontus

Snit wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

If three people are attacking me at once, everything is a potential problem. I just don't consider that to be a game balance issue.

Obviously so, but in my own honest opinion being a problem should still require slightly more skill than simply pressing one key repeatedly. No one is saying make outnumbered be easy, because it obviously only works if your opponents are far worse players, but I don't think anyone wants a game where number of opponents is the only thing that matters.

ToRelax

pppontus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

If three people are attacking me at once, everything is a potential problem. I just don't consider that to be a game balance issue.

Obviously so, but in my own honest opinion being a problem should still require slightly more skill than simply pressing one key repeatedly. No one is saying make outnumbered be easy, because it obviously only works if your opponents are far worse players, but I don't think anyone wants a game where number of opponents is the only thing that matters.

^That's what I was trying to say, ty .

Perphection

Baphomet wrote: »

Didn't read through all the thread, but the OP screenshot proves nothing, and I've had it happened to me as well - but there's an explanation.

As someone mentioned, if it's just that one player hitting you and he only uses this one ability, the total damage of multiple attacks will stack and show as one of the death recap.

The death recap screen shot is exactly what will happen if a single templar beams you and you continiously try to counter-heal out of it, so to speak.

It's been a long time since I've seen a jesus beam break 13k dmg in game, and that's a long channel, remember. Seem like they have reached a good state for this ability damage-wise.

Well, I hard pressed to complaint about it when we have snipes, wrecking, shards etc. still hitting for 15-20k dmg a pop - and non-stealthed surprise attacks for 10k.

At least you can block jesus beam now; you can interupt/purge it, LoS can be broken to the same extend as soul assault, snipe and overload and you can shadow cloak it.

Furthermore, if you pop a damage shield, it only ticks as if you have FULL HEALTH until the shield is worn down - regardless of your actual health. So popping shields like healing ward or igneous shield are direct counters to its execute.

I'm not really here to earn your approval, and again as I had previously stated multiple times.. had you cared to read...(I know it's hard), this was 1-Singular beam, not full duration, near instant death.

There were not multiple casts, there were not multiple assailants like Freddie gray.

People who blindly accept that things in this game are working as 'intended', baffle me. This game has been littered with bugs since launch. I mean, you're part of the "special order", you of all people should understand this.

Best example I have for people like you who don't seem to believe things like this can happen, have you ever used talons on someone who just used eclipse on you? Dragonknights move at Mach 5, and I've even seem some fly...

danno8

pppontus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

If three people are attacking me at once, everything is a potential problem. I just don't consider that to be a game balance issue.

Obviously so, but in my own honest opinion being a problem should still require slightly more skill than simply pressing one key repeatedly. No one is saying make outnumbered be easy, because it obviously only works if your opponents are far worse players, but I don't think anyone wants a game where number of opponents is the only thing that matters.

To me, in this game, the skill in PvP comes from situational awareness, and reacting to incoming damage. I honestly see no difference in spamming 1, 2,3, for charge, talons, whip or 1, 2, 3 for shield, BE, CF or 1, 2, 3 for Shield, Entropy, RD. People spamming RD are the same as those who just spam Crushing Shock, or any other powerful skill.

In my own experience, I have learned to tell when my RD is being ineffective on a target who is below 30% (yes targets below 30% do actually survive a full channel by blocking for instance), and know when to shut it down early. I have even become pretty good at being able to tell when someone has taken notice of my RD channel and is turning to face me in preparation for a charge or some other interrupt. Again I will shut it down early.

My point is, there are a very few handful of key maps for this game, which is on purpose so you can focus on the action around you and respond appropriately and not have to worry about hitting ctrl-8 but accidentally hitting shift-7.

pppontus

danno8 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is generally not a problem if you're not outnumbered, you can counter it then.
When someone spams it on you while you are outnumbered... I don't blame them, it's the best they can do and it really hurts.

If three people are attacking me at once, everything is a potential problem. I just don't consider that to be a game balance issue.

Obviously so, but in my own honest opinion being a problem should still require slightly more skill than simply pressing one key repeatedly. No one is saying make outnumbered be easy, because it obviously only works if your opponents are far worse players, but I don't think anyone wants a game where number of opponents is the only thing that matters.

To me, in this game, the skill in PvP comes from situational awareness, and reacting to incoming damage. I honestly see no difference in spamming 1, 2,3, for charge, talons, whip or 1, 2, 3 for shield, BE, CF or 1, 2, 3 for Shield, Entropy, RD. People spamming RD are the same as those who just spam Crushing Shock, or any other powerful skill.

In my own experience, I have learned to tell when my RD is being ineffective on a target who is below 30% (yes targets below 30% do actually survive a full channel by blocking for instance), and know when to shut it down early. I have even become pretty good at being able to tell when someone has taken notice of my RD channel and is turning to face me in preparation for a charge or some other interrupt. Again I will shut it down early.

My point is, there are a very few handful of key maps for this game, which is on purpose so you can focus on the action around you and respond appropriately and not have to worry about hitting ctrl-8 but accidentally hitting shift-7.

I get it, but I generally just don't like the idea of a channeled execute. It means you have to spend every GCD you have on interrupting because if you don't, and you accidentally drop low, you take 10K per tick. It promotes someone just standing there and keeping it up "in case" I drop low, rather than as a reactionary move.

Fenrlr

this beam i find the most annoying skill in game, not just that it is a bit op, but the sound it makes, and the look.
I just think its out of place in elder scrolls game.
I think Zos should remove beams, they clearly struggle with them, i see beam bugs across map all the time, if i want starwars i go play star wars, i bet less crap and bugs.
And templar have way better execute than nightblade assassin based class? idk anymore.. but pls no fix, we all know the zos fixes by now *** everything up worse.

Snit

pppontus wrote: »

I get it, but I generally just don't like the idea of a channeled execute. It means you have to spend every GCD you have on interrupting because if you don't, and you accidentally drop low, you take 10K per tick

Does this depend on what your primary mitigation technique is? If you've got Annulment or another good shield up, you have a buffer. If you're block-specced, you're always ready to mitigate RD.

Neither of those are great if you rely on dodge-rolling, of course. Does Dark Cloak break RD, or is this just a counter to dodge builds?

pppontus

Snit wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I get it, but I generally just don't like the idea of a channeled execute. It means you have to spend every GCD you have on interrupting because if you don't, and you accidentally drop low, you take 10K per tick

Does this depend on what your primary mitigation technique is? If you've got Annulment or another good shield up, you have a buffer. If you're block-specced, you're always ready to mitigate RD.

Neither of those are great if you rely on dodge-rolling, of course. Does Dark Cloak break RD, or is this just a counter to dodge builds?

Cloak does break it but it also seems to break you out of cloak so they will simply reapply it instantly. Yes, when I'm running on my sorc it is considerably easier to mitigate because harness magicka and ward giving me a buffer so it's more rare to drop down to the levels where it instantly kills you. Definitely worst for stamina builds.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Im fine with it being a counter to roll spammers, but holy *** that damage is way too much. I was raging when it hit me for 16k! Damn dude! Im pretty sure that hits for more then soul assault and doesn't cost ultimate. DAMN! LET me state again. Its good that it counters dodge spam mcduff, but nothing should just outright kill like that. Also what is the counter to radiant? Cloak doesnt work, rolling doesn't, blocking kinda? Not when it hits that much! Maybe my stam build arsenal can't do anything to stop it........depressing. Only way I ever live is if I stack movement speed increases to run out of range. Hopefully I don't die in that time! Cant charge them and interrupt either because they are ALWAYS behind the lines shooting me.

Derra

I don´t know any non templar that thinks radiant destruction is "fine as is" for pvp...

patrykplawskib16_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Yeah, this finisher is so OP that all classes can counter it by 1 button
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_1fU9cunQ
He used only that ability on you, that's why it show entire damage. He can activate it like 20 time, but if he used only this while none hit you, recap will show entire damage in one slot.

sorry but this video demonstrates nothing, it shows the beam goign off and than a 2 sec brake and you healing thru it in battle no one has healing poweres like templars and most of the time your fighting.

pppontus

Derra wrote: »

I don´t know any non templar that thinks radiant destruction is "fine as is" for pvp...

Hell, my Templar is the character I've PvPed the 2nd most with - and I don't think it's "fine as is".

Ezareth

Perphection wrote: »

Yeah, more QQ about Radiant. 100% Health, hit by a massive 1300 Sap Essence then our sweet lord of destruction dealt 26k damage. Executing from 90%+ health is a bit ridiculous.

Also, I know it's hard to see, but it was through a wall as well. So much for that 'fix' a few patches back.

3.6 seconds of a Templar doing nothing while they're gobbling up my Overload? Yes please.

Yasha

I love how sap essence, a top tier skill does 1300 damage, haha.

danno8

Yasha wrote: »

I love how sap essence, a top tier skill does 1300 damage, haha.

What a random comparison. I don't even...

monkeymystic

Radiant used to be very strong in the beginning of 1.6 before all the nerfs, I even made a large thread about it.
But now after all the nerfs to it, you must be really failing (sorry) if you have huge problems with it. You can easily outheal it, damage shield it, cloak it, interrupt it, block it and of course avoid hitting 20% health (its an execute doh!).

Meanwhile sorcerers are critting insta spells for 20k+ a pop with 20k dmg shields up, DKs are hitting people for 25k+ dmg with heavy attacks, people are spamming wrecking blows, snipe and stam dps abilities for insane amounts of damage that oneshots people, and you complain about a channeled nerfed spell that does 3-7k DPS while leaving the caster "naked"?

Are you being serious? Radiant is actually very overrated and only works decent as an execute on bad players that doesn't know what heals, block, interrupt, damage shield or spell res is. What you fail to realise is that snipe would take 1 second to do what radiant potentially can do in 3.6 seconds of channeling... But snipe and similar abilites can do it no matter enemy health %

I hate to say it, but this sounds like a huge L2P issue all across tamriel

Perphection

monkeymystic wrote: »

Radiant used to be very strong in the beginning of 1.6 before all the nerfs, I even made a large thread about it.
But now after all the nerfs to it, you must be really failing (sorry) if you have huge problems with it. You can easily outheal it, damage shield it, cloak it, interrupt it, block it and of course avoid hitting 20% health (its an execute doh!).

Meanwhile sorcerers are critting insta spells for 20k+ a pop with 20k dmg shields up, DKs are hitting people for 25k+ dmg with heavy attacks, people are spamming wrecking blows, snipe and stam dps abilities for insane amounts of damage that oneshots people, and you complain about a channeled nerfed spell that does 3-7k DPS while leaving the caster "naked"?

Are you being serious? Radiant is actually very overrated and only works decent as an execute on bad players that doesn't know what heals, block, interrupt, damage shield or spell res is. What you fail to realise is that snipe would take 1 second to do what radiant potentially can do in 3.6 seconds of channeling... But snipe and similar abilites can do it no matter enemy health %

I hate to say it, but this sounds like a huge L2P issue all across tamriel

I really wish that people would read before commenting sometimes. You come on here and just look stupid. I feel sorry for you =/

monkeymystic

I read your whole post, and i read your other posts in this thread. Since the nerfs i have never had issues with radiant. Quite the opposite in fact, because it leaves them very fragile and easy to be 2-shot while channeling for low dmg (again, spell res or dmg shields render it useless).

Read my above post again, and maybe just maybe you won't die against an ability that is one of the easiest to counter ingame after all the nerfs. My DK eats templars, and my heavy attack hits for 2x their radiant 3.6 sec channel. So no i dont see the problem. My sorc with hardened ward up never leaves 100% health against radiant, so no I don't see the problem there either. And i've faced several good magicka temps with spell dmg stacking.

So i repeat, i smell a l2p issue a long way here I'm afraid. If you are decent you should never die to radiant unless its some zerg vs you situation (but then any execute would kill you).

Radiant is kinda weak in pvp after the nerfs compared to the other many dps abilities IMO. There are so many ways to counter it now, and the dmg is really low unless you are under 20% (which you shouldnt thanks to heals and dmg shields).

A good player will do high dmg with most builds, but a guy doing high dmg with radiant would prolly do 2x the dps as stam dps or sorc dps..

SienneYviete

Only thing I have noticed with RD is 50% of the time when cast on me I get a weird health desync, also if you get a ping spike or an fps drop you're in trouble. Last night I got hit by a temp a couple of times for 28k with only that one attack showing in my kill log, problem was the ttk was under a second on my screen by the time I cloaked it was already too late. I'm not really sure whether there is an issue that people know how to exploit (not saying it is I just don't know) or whether it's a ping/desync issue.