Monster Helms: End Game Gear help

GreyRanger

I am about to hit v14 on my main (playing since beta ) and am planning on what gear I am shooting for. I hope to do some of the end game PVE (vet dungeons, trials,and DSA) and PVP. I see a lot of V14 players in game using monster helms (Valkyn, Nerien'eth, and Engine Guardian mostly); but most of the guide posts I have seen since 1.6 suggest that stacking more magicka, spell damage, or health etc. through set bonuses is more valuable since the caps were removed.

I am curious if most folks would suggest going for regarding use or non-use of monster helms for a magicka build focused on DPS, tanking, or healing.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Khivas_Carrick

The monster helms and corresponding shoulder pieces serve to augment existing builds and build types, so depending on what you use, it'd be good to try out one of the sets. Personally I use and prefer the Engine Guardian.

Shadesofkin

My tank doesn't rely on Bloodspawn, but certainly benefits from it. My build started with what I could craft first and went from there to see what could be reasonably left out to include the nifty function of increased armor and spell resist with a 15pt jump in ultimate.

Build your character first then figure out if it's right for you to use one or not.

Flaminir

For what it's worth my Sorc DPS does NOT use monster sets in PvE..... there I stack spell power in everything I do. I just don't have enough DoT's to make full use of Valkyns.

In PvP though I do use Engine Guardian & it's fantastic for that! It's less of a problem in there to lose a little bit of spell power since pure DPS really isn't as important as survival & sustain.

Mivryna

I'm interested to hear what folks say about Nerien'eth's set. I want it purely for aesthetics, but if it also servers a practical purpose I would be happy.

Love_Chunks

Umbranox wrote: »

I'm interested to hear what folks say about Nerien'eth's set. I want it purely for aesthetics, but if it also servers a practical purpose I would be happy.

It's poo on a stam dps. The damage scales off of spell power and spell crit. Might work better on a mag dps but im not so sure its worth it with only a 2% chance to proc. Mephalas set might actually work better seeing that many mag dps weave med/heavy attacks. Also might work well with stam dps weaving heavy/wrecking or flurry.

C0pp3rhead

It also depends on your class. The Valkyn Skoria set procs from DoT effects. For DK's & Templars, many of their damage causing abilities are DoTs. NB's have few dots. Engine Guardian is great for Tanks, but is just ok for most DPS builds. The proc on Nerien'eth's is quite low, but does good damage if the enemy reliably stays in the AoE.

My suggestion: do dailies, and loot what you can get. If you get something you think will work, test it out and see whether your dps goes up or down.

Cuyler

I don't know anyone using Nerien'eth's. Proc chance to low.

In general it depends on your character and playstyle. I use a lot of DoTs for my DK and Sorc so Valkyn is proccing a lot. If you're not using a lot of DoTs it's not going to help.

I see almost every tank using either malbueth's or engine guardian.

Shader_Shibes

I would like to see the Maw set changed. Either increase the Daedroth HP, or its damage done, or whatever, because right now it truly sucks. I have yet to use it in any meaningful instance, but it can barely survive 3 hits against a big dwemer thing in Avanchnzel (vr6 zone for me)

Mivryna

I'm definitely a style over substance type of person, and as such I may try Nerien'eth's set with AoEs and such, like Lightning Flood, Boundless Storm and Steel Tornado.

Impulse and the resulting DoTs may be more effective though...

Savos_Saren

I wish that Nerein'eth would either proc more or have higher damage. That way, it would fit the stam NB DPSers. There's nothing really out there for them that's comparable to Valkyn Skoria's damage with a DK magic build.

looking at you Zeni

Snit

For PvP, I use the Bloodspawn helm as a one-piece set on my magicka sorc. Everyone needs good stamina regeneration in Cyrodiil.

Joy_Division

The Monster sets are a *really* good idea whose execution is unfortunately average. With a build that complements them (specifically the Valkyn / Engine / Bloodspawn) they can nicely increase its effectiveness.

• For a DPS that uses dots, Valkyn can add about 1000 single target passive DPS. It is real good for PVE. IN PvP, it doesn't proc if your target has a damage shield which limits its effectiveness
• Nerien'eth may look cool and it does, but it does less damage than Valkyn, the wait for the crystal explosion is too long (enemies can easily move or are dead anyway), and the proc rate is too low. This set is outclassed in almost everyway by Valkyn and if you aren't a DoT build, more spellpower would probably be the better choice.
• Engine is real good for resource management. Though I wish the Dwemer things were able to keep pace with a running player.
• Bloodspawn is a solid choice for tanks or in PvP, but if you don't get hit *a lot,* you aren't really gaining much from using it.
• Malabeth (the purple beam) is a really good *idea*, but the conditions under which it procs are too restrictive IMHO. I used this as a melee build in Cyrodiil and it procced so little I forgot I was wearing it, which should not happen as a melee build. Bloodspawn procs 6% when you get hit by anything. Malabeth procs 6% only if a target is close by and stays close.
• Spawn of Mephala is used to be good at increasing single target DPS for those who weave "medium" attacks. It now only procs on fully charged heavies. That is why we don't see this used much in 1.6. TY Septimus for updating me on this set..
• Bogdan's Nightflame (the healer set) is again a good idea that doesn't work in practice. I heal and I know healers who used this and I will say that when this procs in the exact spot I want it to proc, it is a HUGE boon. That said, 15 second cooldown, no control over procs (it will proc on a random HoT way far way in the corner where no healing is needed trust me), 2% proc rate, and the fact that the totem is stationary is why most healers do not want to break up their 5 piece seducer + spell damage sets.
• Maw of the Inferno is by far the most interesting idea and unfortunately by far the worst of these sets. If this thing was *always* active I am still not convinced it would add as much DPS as Valkyn because the daedroth lumbers toward random targets, has a slow attack routine, and does not do much damage. Now consider it has only a 5% chance to proc on a basic attack (so says the wiki though I thought it was 10%) and only stays for 15 seconds and it is painfully obvious that having any other set bonus will give the user more utility. I understand it's not a DPS set, but I'd say it is a not anything set because the daedroth summons too infrequently and only generates complaints from raid leaders rather than legitimately contributing something useful.

seanvwolf

My observation between Valkyn's and Nerieneth's

Single target Valkyn's does more damage than Nerieneth's. But not if there's more than 2 enemies around.
Valkyn's is worthless if you don't have at least 2 DoT's active most times.
Nerieneth's procs on any damage, so the lower proc rate's efficiency is relative to your skill use and frequency.

I have both sets and I run with both interchangeably. The problem I have had with Valkyn's is that it seems to have a hidden cooldown. The proc from Nerieneth's can sometimes result in up to three crystals active at a time. As a stam sorc, if boundless storm, snipe and steel tornado are on my bar, it's Nerieneth's. If lightning flood, rapid strikes and acid spray, it's Valkyn's.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

krees28b14_ESO

Interesting read so far. How many times did you have to run Skoria till the helmet dropped or pledge turn-ins for the shoulders? Also do these sets go off you stamina, magicka, weapon or spell power or are they a set amount no matter what build you have?

Septimus_Magna

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] Spawn of Mephala is good at increasing single target DPS for those who weave "medium" attacks. I don't see this used as much in 1.6 as I did in 1.5 and I'm not sure why.

[*] Maw of the Inferno is by far the most interesting idea and unfortunately by far the worst of these sets. If this thing was *always* active I am still not convinced it would add as much DPS as Valkyn because the daedroth lumbers toward random targets, has a slow attack routine, and does not do much damage. Now consider it has only a 5% chance to proc on a basic attack (so says the wiki though I thought it was 10%) and only stays for 15 seconds and it is painfully obvious that having any other set bonus will give the user more utility. I understand it's not a DPS set, but I'd say it is a not anything set because the daedroth summons too infrequently and only generates complaints from raid leaders rather than legitimately contributing something useful.
[/list]

Spawn of Mephala used to proc on medium attacks because they were registered as heavy attacks, now the set only procs on fully charged heavy attacks which makes it pretty useless. The popular combination used to be Mephala + Infallible Mage.

Maw of Inferno can be useful on sorc pet builds because Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward increase the Daedroths damage, other than that I think its pretty terrible.

All sets should scale off the highest stats now, so its not bound to spell/weapon damage and magicka/stamina.

leshpar

As a healer, I really want the nightflame set. Is it worth it or should I just go for more crafted gear?

C0pp3rhead

leshpar wrote: »

As a healer, I really want the nightflame set. Is it worth it or should I just go for more crafted gear?

Nightflame is crap except for a few special situations. The area of effect of the heal is small and stationary. In both PvE and PvP, but the time the proc drops your group or you has already moved on. The only time it is useful is when everyone has to stack on the healer for heals (which is only in PvE). The times when this happens are few & far between. Even in Sanctum, you've moved out of poison & red circles by the time the heal kicks in.

Cuyler

leshpar wrote: »

As a healer, I really want the nightflame set. Is it worth it or should I just go for more crafted gear?

As a healer your better off skipping undaunted sets. Unfortunate but a reality. Go with 5 pc. healer, 4 pc. Martial, 2 pc. Torugs. Done.

Raizin

Flaminir, why do u lvl 3 templars? On same side and server? :O

Dagoth_Rac

krees28b14_ESO wrote: »

Interesting read so far. How many times did you have to run Skoria till the helmet dropped or pledge turn-ins for the shoulders? Also do these sets go off you stamina, magicka, weapon or spell power or are they a set amount no matter what build you have?

The base damage is tied directly to the gear, not your stats. So gold VR14 pieces will do more damage than purple VR14 pieces which do more damage than VR5 purple pieces, etc., regardless of whether you have 1000 spell damage or 50,000 max stamina or whatever. They will crit off your highest crit rating, though, so your character stats do help in that regard.

The drops are random, but rumor is 10% helmet drop rate and 33% shoulder drop rate. The lower helm rate is because you can target a specific helm and grind the boss all night long. With shoulders, you can only get one gold key per day per character and you cannot target a specific shoulder piece. So that is 33% chance of any helm. With 8 possible helms, that works out to a 4.125% chance of a Valkyn shoulder with each gold key. (Assuming those drop rates are right - they are just guesses from people who have run a lot more pledges than I have.)

Joy_Division

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] Spawn of Mephala is good at increasing single target DPS for those who weave "medium" attacks. I don't see this used as much in 1.6 as I did in 1.5 and I'm not sure why.

[*] Maw of the Inferno is by far the most interesting idea and unfortunately by far the worst of these sets. If this thing was *always* active I am still not convinced it would add as much DPS as Valkyn because the daedroth lumbers toward random targets, has a slow attack routine, and does not do much damage. Now consider it has only a 5% chance to proc on a basic attack (so says the wiki though I thought it was 10%) and only stays for 15 seconds and it is painfully obvious that having any other set bonus will give the user more utility. I understand it's not a DPS set, but I'd say it is a not anything set because the daedroth summons too infrequently and only generates complaints from raid leaders rather than legitimately contributing something useful.
[/list]

Spawn of Mephala used to proc on medium attacks because they were registered as heavy attacks, now the set only procs on fully charged heavy attacks which makes it pretty useless. The popular combination used to be Mephala + Infallible Mage.

Maw of Inferno can be useful on sorc pet builds because Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward increase the Daedroths damage, other than that I think its pretty terrible.

All sets should scale off the highest stats now, so its not bound to spell/weapon damage and magicka/stamina.

I did not know that about Spawn of Mephala. What a terrible decision that just limits player options. TY and updated my post.

krees28b14_ESO

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

krees28b14_ESO wrote: »

Interesting read so far. How many times did you have to run Skoria till the helmet dropped or pledge turn-ins for the shoulders? Also do these sets go off you stamina, magicka, weapon or spell power or are they a set amount no matter what build you have?

The base damage is tied directly to the gear, not your stats. So gold VR14 pieces will do more damage than purple VR14 pieces which do more damage than VR5 purple pieces, etc., regardless of whether you have 1000 spell damage or 50,000 max stamina or whatever. They will crit off your highest crit rating, though, so your character stats do help in that regard.

The drops are random, but rumor is 10% helmet drop rate and 33% shoulder drop rate. The lower helm rate is because you can target a specific helm and grind the boss all night long. With shoulders, you can only get one gold key per day per character and you cannot target a specific shoulder piece. So that is 33% chance of any helm. With 8 possible helms, that works out to a 4.125% chance of a Valkyn shoulder with each gold key. (Assuming those drop rates are right - they are just guesses from people who have run a lot more pledges than I have.)

Thank you much. Will be looking to run some of these for future builds and just to have so I can play around with them. Never know what ZOS will change and suddenly one of these really useless sets right now becomes extremely useful. Hopefully anyways.