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Racial Balance: Suggestions
ThatHappyCat
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ORC
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Swift
Replaced with a new passive: Brutal. Increases the damage of light and heavy attacks by 3/6/9%.
Health recovery is probably the weakest stat in the game: no one stacks it, and if you do it doesn't make a lot of difference because 1. you generally have a healer or can self-heal, 2. players in ESO tend to die to burst damage which is not at all mitigated by health recovery, and 3. in PvP the disease condition is rampant which halves health recovery. For this to mean anything it has to be a pretty big number... and I don't even think doubling it is enough, but it's a start.
The Swift passive was always a weird one, the sprinting bonus is almost completely unhelpful in actual combat and the charge bonus was niche and questionable. Needed something more general and also more fitting for the Orcs' reputation as warriors.
REDGUARD
Adrenaline Rush
Now works on all attacks instead of just melee attacks.
I don't really see a good reason why it shouldn't work with ranged attacks, that's unnecessarily restricting.
BOSMER
Stealthy
Now also reduces time required to enter stealth mode by 10/20/30%, increases sneaking speed by 5/10/15%, and reduces sneaking cost by 5/10/15%.
Given that Stealthy is such a niche passive (it pretty much only helps in PvP), it should be damn good at what it does. 10% extra damage from stealth is great but pretty much only comes into play in the opening shot of a gank.
KHAJIIT
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Stealthy
Now also reduces time required to enter stealth mode by 10/20/30%, increases sneaking speed by 5/10/15%, and reduces sneaking cost by 5/10/15%.
Carnage
Replaced with a new passive: Feline Grace. Reduces fall damage by 50% across all levels, increases weapon and spell crit chance by 2/4/6%.
Robust and Stealthy reasoning as above. Change to Carnage because 1. it's a weird name, 2. reducing fall damage is a nice flavour thing (plus it mirrors Argonians' Amphibious, both being beast races and all), and 3. I don't see why the crit bonus should be for stamina builds only. Given that the other Khajiit passives don't do much in general combat this one better be useful in all situations.
ARGONIAN
Amphibious
No longer restores health, magicka and stamina on imbibing a potion. Now also reduces potion cooldown time by 3/6/9s.
Quick to Mend
Now also increases maximum health by 3/6/9%.
The resource restore on potion drinking was pretty weak. Reducing potion cooldown is much more flexible: you can get far longer uptime for useful but relatively short-lived effects like Invisibility and Immovable, or regain your resources considerably more frequently (and more effectively than the old passive) with restoration potions. It might seem a bit much, but it's an expensive passive to take full advantage of so I think it deserves to be good.
Added a health bonus to Quick to Mend for a total of 12%, which is the same as the Imperial's Tough passive... because Argonians needed some stat boosting love. You might wonder why I didn't say the same for Bosmer and Khajiit, both of which have minimal (or in the case of Khajiit, none) stat bonuses... that's because I thought their special passives (Y'ffre's Endurance and Feline Grace) made up for it, and while I think my suggested change to Amphibious makes it pretty strong as well it does come with a "downside" in that chugging potions on (a shortened) cooldown is expensive.
NORD
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Rugged
Now also increases maximum health by 3/6/9%.
Robust reasoning as above. Rugged gets the Quick to Mend treatment because again Nords have minimal stat bonuses but unlike Bosmer, Khajiit or Argonian don't have a powerful passive to make up for it. Total health bonus is now 12%, as with Imperial's Tough passive.
IMPERIAL
Red Diamond
Now works on all attacks instead of just melee attacks. Chance to proc increased from 10% to 100%, but can occur no more than once every 3s.
Same idea as with Redguard's Adrenaline Rush. Also made it work similarly to Adrenaline Rush because I don't like too much dice rolling.
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Swift
Replaced with a new passive: Brutal. Increases the damage of light and heavy attacks by 3/6/9%.
Health recovery is probably the weakest stat in the game: no one stacks it, and if you do it doesn't make a lot of difference because 1. you generally have a healer or can self-heal, 2. players in ESO tend to die to burst damage which is not at all mitigated by health recovery, and 3. in PvP the disease condition is rampant which halves health recovery. For this to mean anything it has to be a pretty big number... and I don't even think doubling it is enough, but it's a start.
The Swift passive was always a weird one, the sprinting bonus is almost completely unhelpful in actual combat and the charge bonus was niche and questionable. Needed something more general and also more fitting for the Orcs' reputation as warriors.
REDGUARD
Adrenaline Rush
Now works on all attacks instead of just melee attacks.
I don't really see a good reason why it shouldn't work with ranged attacks, that's unnecessarily restricting.
BOSMER
Stealthy
Now also reduces time required to enter stealth mode by 10/20/30%, increases sneaking speed by 5/10/15%, and reduces sneaking cost by 5/10/15%.
Given that Stealthy is such a niche passive (it pretty much only helps in PvP), it should be damn good at what it does. 10% extra damage from stealth is great but pretty much only comes into play in the opening shot of a gank.
KHAJIIT
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Stealthy
Now also reduces time required to enter stealth mode by 10/20/30%, increases sneaking speed by 5/10/15%, and reduces sneaking cost by 5/10/15%.
Carnage
Replaced with a new passive: Feline Grace. Reduces fall damage by 50% across all levels, increases weapon and spell crit chance by 2/4/6%.
Robust and Stealthy reasoning as above. Change to Carnage because 1. it's a weird name, 2. reducing fall damage is a nice flavour thing (plus it mirrors Argonians' Amphibious, both being beast races and all), and 3. I don't see why the crit bonus should be for stamina builds only. Given that the other Khajiit passives don't do much in general combat this one better be useful in all situations.
ARGONIAN
Amphibious
No longer restores health, magicka and stamina on imbibing a potion. Now also reduces potion cooldown time by 3/6/9s.
Quick to Mend
Now also increases maximum health by 3/6/9%.
The resource restore on potion drinking was pretty weak. Reducing potion cooldown is much more flexible: you can get far longer uptime for useful but relatively short-lived effects like Invisibility and Immovable, or regain your resources considerably more frequently (and more effectively than the old passive) with restoration potions. It might seem a bit much, but it's an expensive passive to take full advantage of so I think it deserves to be good.
Added a health bonus to Quick to Mend for a total of 12%, which is the same as the Imperial's Tough passive... because Argonians needed some stat boosting love. You might wonder why I didn't say the same for Bosmer and Khajiit, both of which have minimal (or in the case of Khajiit, none) stat bonuses... that's because I thought their special passives (Y'ffre's Endurance and Feline Grace) made up for it, and while I think my suggested change to Amphibious makes it pretty strong as well it does come with a "downside" in that chugging potions on (a shortened) cooldown is expensive.
NORD
Robust
Health recovery bonus increased from 10/20/30% to 20/40/60%.
Rugged
Now also increases maximum health by 3/6/9%.
Robust reasoning as above. Rugged gets the Quick to Mend treatment because again Nords have minimal stat bonuses but unlike Bosmer, Khajiit or Argonian don't have a powerful passive to make up for it. Total health bonus is now 12%, as with Imperial's Tough passive.
IMPERIAL
Red Diamond
Now works on all attacks instead of just melee attacks. Chance to proc increased from 10% to 100%, but can occur no more than once every 3s.
Same idea as with Redguard's Adrenaline Rush. Also made it work similarly to Adrenaline Rush because I don't like too much dice rolling.
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golfer.dub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Nords having +12% health as well as damage reduction and health recovery...I suppose that's fine.
It's definitely not the direction I'd prefer them to take though. I'd rather Nords weren't ultra-tanks but subpar at every other role. Then again, the health bonus will help when it comes to dumping the rest into stamina.Edited by golfer.dub17_ESO on 26 April 2015 05:090 -
Arcanasx✭✭✭✭✭Breton
Improve Spell resistance passive to 25% mitigation for all spells.
Replace spell cost reduction with "Dragon Skin" Which has a 10% chance to absorb spells to negate the damage and restore magicka...
Altmer
Reduce spell resistance by 25% with the 9% magicka regeneration
I'm kidding...0 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »Nords having +12% health as well as damage reduction and health recovery...I suppose that's fine.
It's definitely not the direction I'd prefer them to take though. I'd rather Nords weren't ultra-tanks but subpar at every other role. Then again, the health bonus will help when it comes to dumping the rest into stamina.
Well, as you say a health bonus looks like a "tanky" thing but it's really very flexible. No build can do with absolutely no health investment so having a health bonus means you're free to reinvest some of the points you'd otherwise spend in health in something else. Same goes for survivability bonuses, the 6% damage reduction means you can take even more points out of health and still be survivable enough to complete end-game content or compete in PvP.0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Amphibious as a potion cool down reduction is a pretty bad idea imo. It doesn't actually do anything on its own, and is only useful for potion spamming. If it were added to the existing amphibious it would be better. However I pretty much hate the idea of potion passives as they are tied to potion spamming and hence alchemy or cash. I would much prefer a well thought through ability that is unrelated to potions.1 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Amphibious as a potion cool down reduction is a pretty bad idea imo. It doesn't actually do anything on its own, and is only useful for potion spamming. If it were added to the existing amphibious it would be better. However I pretty much hate the idea of potion passives as they are tied to potion spamming and hence alchemy or cash. I would much prefer a well thought through ability that is unrelated to potions.
But everyone can benefit from potion spam and it's arguably the most powerful racial if you take full advantage of it. You can get nearly full uptime on Immovable with it and potion CD glyphs, for example; and it increases your resource restore far better than the existing passive can when drinking restoration potions.
Besides, the reason I don't suggest a completely unrelated passive is because I prefer to balance things as they are instead of "reimagining" everything as some people like to do when making suggestions.
I wouldn't be opposed to a different effect altogether, but I'd like it to fit in the theme of "useful for all builds" instead of something niche like the Stealthy some people seem to want for Argonians.Edited by ThatHappyCat on 26 April 2015 15:091 -
Helluin✭✭✭For some alternative builds, Robust is not that bad.
A guildie playing a Khajiit NB tank values it a lot and also Carnage. We agree that Stealthy instead is not good because you have it just once per fight, so in group contents it's wasted. It's good in solo play or ganking, this is the main issue.
It would be better a proc or a bonus that is bigger from stealth and lower in combat.
60% health recovery is a lot, maybe 15-30-45% could be a way.
Red Diamond and Adrenaline Rush with Caltrops generate a good ammount of health and stamina.
The other suggestions are interesting.
The problem of some races, with softcaps removed, atm are mainly max stats so this is something that should be balanced first.
Starting from TES lore and usual racial traits then you can add the rest.
But for Achery Expertise, Bosmer are traditionally the best archers in TES so something related to bow or ranged attacks could be an option; Stealthy then could be only for Khajiit, considering what I wrote before to make it good not just out of combat, or working differently for Bosmer and Khajiit.Edited by Helluin on 27 April 2015 00:24"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Amphibious as a potion cool down reduction is a pretty bad idea imo. It doesn't actually do anything on its own, and is only useful for potion spamming. If it were added to the existing amphibious it would be better. However I pretty much hate the idea of potion passives as they are tied to potion spamming and hence alchemy or cash. I would much prefer a well thought through ability that is unrelated to potions.
But everyone can benefit from potion spam and it's arguably the most powerful racial if you take full advantage of it. You can get nearly full uptime on Immovable with it and potion CD glyphs, for example; and it increases your resource restore far better than the existing passive can when drinking restoration potions.
Besides, the reason I don't suggest a completely unrelated passive is because I prefer to balance things as they are instead of "reimagining" everything as some people like to do when making suggestions.
I wouldn't be opposed to a different effect altogether, but I'd like it to fit in the theme of "useful for all builds" instead of something niche like the Stealthy some people seem to want for Argonians.
However unless you intend to potion spam, including getting medicinal (which means you must be an alchemist), potion cool down jewellery, and such it is basically useless. So rather than it being useful for all, it is useful for one specific build type... one that requires lots of cash or time to make good use of. 10% max stat is way more flexible.0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Amphibious as a potion cool down reduction is a pretty bad idea imo. It doesn't actually do anything on its own, and is only useful for potion spamming. If it were added to the existing amphibious it would be better. However I pretty much hate the idea of potion passives as they are tied to potion spamming and hence alchemy or cash. I would much prefer a well thought through ability that is unrelated to potions.
But everyone can benefit from potion spam and it's arguably the most powerful racial if you take full advantage of it. You can get nearly full uptime on Immovable with it and potion CD glyphs, for example; and it increases your resource restore far better than the existing passive can when drinking restoration potions.
Besides, the reason I don't suggest a completely unrelated passive is because I prefer to balance things as they are instead of "reimagining" everything as some people like to do when making suggestions.
I wouldn't be opposed to a different effect altogether, but I'd like it to fit in the theme of "useful for all builds" instead of something niche like the Stealthy some people seem to want for Argonians.
However unless you intend to potion spam, including getting medicinal (which means you must be an alchemist), potion cool down jewellery, and such it is basically useless. So rather than it being useful for all, it is useful for one specific build type... one that requires lots of cash or time to make good use of. 10% max stat is way more flexible.
You both make good points. Reducing potion cooldown (either in addition to current passive, or replacing it) gets closer to what Argonians had going at launch. Whatever it is, they should redesign the NB Catalyst passive so that it stacks with whatever Argonians have.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »Amphibious as a potion cool down reduction is a pretty bad idea imo. It doesn't actually do anything on its own, and is only useful for potion spamming. If it were added to the existing amphibious it would be better. However I pretty much hate the idea of potion passives as they are tied to potion spamming and hence alchemy or cash. I would much prefer a well thought through ability that is unrelated to potions.
But everyone can benefit from potion spam and it's arguably the most powerful racial if you take full advantage of it. You can get nearly full uptime on Immovable with it and potion CD glyphs, for example; and it increases your resource restore far better than the existing passive can when drinking restoration potions.
Besides, the reason I don't suggest a completely unrelated passive is because I prefer to balance things as they are instead of "reimagining" everything as some people like to do when making suggestions.
I wouldn't be opposed to a different effect altogether, but I'd like it to fit in the theme of "useful for all builds" instead of something niche like the Stealthy some people seem to want for Argonians.
However unless you intend to potion spam, including getting medicinal (which means you must be an alchemist), potion cool down jewellery, and such it is basically useless. So rather than it being useful for all, it is useful for one specific build type... one that requires lots of cash or time to make good use of. 10% max stat is way more flexible.
Getting Medicinal is not required at all if you just intend to drink restoration potions (the increased regeneration uptime is relatively inconsequential), not to mention it's easy to get so that really shouldn't be a problem. 36s potion CD down from 45s is great without any potion CD glyphs (having them just lets you maintain almost 100% uptime on Immovable and Invisibility. So no, it is not at all specific to one build type, every build drinks at least restoration potions so every build benefits. It can be expensive yes, but it's also potentially the most game-changing racial.
As an example, 20% reduced potion cooldown (which is what it is) could mean that by drinking magicka/stamina potions more often (even just the plain dropped potions which are plentiful and therefore cost nothing), you can focus more of your build towards DPS and less towards sustain. That's hardly a "specific build", is it? Every DPS wants that.
I would not want to see Amphibious replaced with another stat passive. That's boring, plus I already suggested giving Argonians a bigger health bonus.
Edited by ThatHappyCat on 27 April 2015 07:520 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭@ThatHappyCat Okay, I'll buy that it is not as build specific as I thought. Unfortunately I still don't like a passive that is directly tied to cash and needs a specific ability (potion) to be spammed on cool down to have any effect. It seems to force a potion spamming playstyle too much for my liking, because unless you do spam them on cool down it doesn't do anything for you.0
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Brasseurfb16_ESO✭✭✭✭For those saying Stealthy only works once per fight, try harder next time. It works with NB Shadow Cloak (+ morphs), invisible potions, Clouding Swarm and the new Shadow constellation passive Shadowstrike. Its one of the best passives for a NB putting an emphasis on invisibility and stealth.Edited by Brasseurfb16_ESO on 27 April 2015 11:230 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just give my NB something useful besides the 10 % dmg bonus out of cloak, stealth or batswarm.
It's not comparable to the stat increase of a Imperial or the regeneration of a Bosmer.
Also why the *** does my cat take fall dmg.R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -1 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »For those saying Stealthy only works once per fight, try harder next time. It works with NB Shadow Cloak (+ morphs), invisible potions, Clouding Swarm and the new Shadow constellation passive Shadowstrike. Its one of the best passives for a NB putting an emphasis on invisibility and stealth.
It works well for 1/4 classes and very niche builds. That's the definition of a niche passive.
Also, Detection potions are so prevalent in PvP you're not going to be able to take advantage of this very well against any half-decent player.Edited by ThatHappyCat on 27 April 2015 21:522 -
Helluin✭✭✭Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »For those saying Stealthy only works once per fight, try harder next time. It works with NB Shadow Cloak (+ morphs), invisible potions, Clouding Swarm and the new Shadow constellation passive Shadowstrike. Its one of the best passives for a NB putting an emphasis on invisibility and stealth.
Even adding to that the bonus of Master Assassin passive skill and using cloak, potions or Clouding Swarm, in PvE you gain less dps compared to raw stats.
As correctly stated by @ThatHappyCat and as I wrote in the previous post, maybe you missed it, it works well just with certain setups and in some contents (solo and PvP ganking), so for the majority is once per fight or neither.
I agree with @Soulac aboutIt's not comparable to the stat increase of a Imperial or the regeneration of a Bosmer.Edited by Helluin on 28 April 2015 12:10"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."1
