Isn't it time to take a look at dual wield?

Jar_Ek

What does major berserk add in real terms then?

lolo_01b16_ESO

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Momentum is pretty much required if you're a melee DPS, 20% damage is just too much to give up on, meaning you have to use a 2hand even if you're not actually using that two hand. Having a neutral, all-class Major Brutality skill would be amazing (rework weapon power potions into something else).

Since patch 1.6 any skill that provieds the major weapon damage buff is unnecessary since it doesn't stack with potions. (Same with major spell damage and regen buffs)

Cathexis

Bol + DW on a sorc is a good combo although I don't use it.

Emma_Overload

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

The only real issue is Rally.

It either needs to be nerfed to the ground or moved out of the 2h tree into something neutral like Fighters Guild, just like ( the overall much worse but equally mandatory for magicka based builds) Entropy.

Dual wield as such could use a minor tweak here and there, what doesn't, but that's it.

So your solution to DW's problems are to nerf some OTHER skill line?

No. Just...... NO.

Emma_Overload

People who aren't getting good DPS from Flurry (and morphs) aren't building for it correctly. With twin daggers and the right gear and CP points, I can get my Weapon Crit up to 90%... NINETY PERCENT...without potions! On my Sorc, DW daggers are by far the simplest way to crack 12000 DPS without ultimates, potions or other gimmicks.

The problem with Flurry, in my opinion, is that the channel time is so long it makes it difficult to use against certain bosses that don't give you much time to react to their special attacks. Flurry should be adjusted to 1 second to bring it in line with similar "main damage" attacks from other skill lines.

exiledtyrant

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

People who aren't getting good DPS from Flurry (and morphs) aren't building for it correctly. With twin daggers and the right gear and CP points, I can get my Weapon Crit up to 90%... NINETY PERCENT...without potions! On my Sorc, DW daggers are by far the simplest way to crack 12000 DPS without ultimates, potions or other gimmicks.

The problem with Flurry, in my opinion, is that the channel time is so long it makes it difficult to use against certain bosses that don't give you much time to react to their special attacks. Flurry should be adjusted to 1 second to bring it in line with similar "main damage" attacks from other skill lines.

If you are getting 12000 dps with flurry you are getting far more with wrecking blow. Not only because wrecking is far stronger after the first empower but also because you will be doing at least 2.5 more wrecking blows in the time it takes for one flurry to finish even while canceling. I tested this over and over, sent in a bug report and made a post with a video and it still hasn't been addressed. Even with canceling it edges over 2 seconds of channel time. It is almost as long as the sorcerer velocious curse which I timed it alongside which happens to have a 3.5 second detonation time. Flurry is one of the many problems with duel wield.

Cody

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

On the other end, in PvP, it is far easier for me to kill 2h switchers now, any class. I used 2h from day 1 on my templar, and I think my DW NB is far more of a killing machine.

Think you might want to rethink this, cause the facts dont match the numbers.

i was going to comment... then I saw your 3 stars:D

lol. just kidding

a DW player has superior mobility to a 2H player. A dual wield player can run circles around a 2H player with flurries while the 2H struggles to get an uppercut out.

against 2H players, yes, DW can do well.

against everything else.... not so well:( unless you are a god at PvP of course.

ArRashid

Dual Wield seems to be in this game ONLY for last 15-20% of enemy HP. Before that, it's not worth considering.

Half passives are not effective on bosses (most of them are CC immune after all) and most of the skills feel out of place and too weak.


Reimagined:
Twin Slashes:
Slashes with both weapons. For relatively high damage. Effect depends on weapons. Mace = disorient, axe = bleed, sword = critical damage increase, dagger = critical chance increase.
Morph1 - increased damage by 25%
Morph2 - added charge (at least 15, better 25m)

Flurry:
Damage inscreased to compensate being unable to interrupt it after activation
Morph1: Increases attack speed for X seconds
Morph2: last hit puts target off balance (does not stun though) AND interrupts spellcasting (even if it's immune to offbalance)

Whirlwind:
Tuned down visual effect so the load of dust does not fry older computers (seriously, getting -25 fps because of a single skill? it's way worse than even having whole screen covered in flames or lightning)

Blade Cloak
Cross Block:
While toggled: while blocking, you gain immunity to physical damage until you release block or run out of stamina
Morph1: Blocking a physical attack gives you Counterattack buff, increasing your next attack's damage by 25%.
Morph2: (instead of cross blocking, you spin your right hand weapon) Instead of immunity against physical attacks, it now deflects single target spells from frontal cone

Hidden Blade:
Instead of ranged snare it turns into a melee thrust for high damage.
Morph1: Bonus damage (up to 300%) inversely proportional to enemy HP (like Reverse Slice).
Morph2: Gains 20m range, stuns (and interrupts) casting targets.

passives:
Dual Wield Expert
Instead of increasing offhand damage by 3/6% it increases attack speed by 5/10%.

Ruffian
Deals 2x/4x weapon damage when interrupting spellcasting (by ability or bash).

Twin Blade and Blunt
Maces ignore 10/20% armor.
Axes deal 5/10% more damage.
Daggers increase critical chance by 3/6%.
Swords increase critical damage by 3/6%.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Steel Tornado is the only good DW really

Zsymon

Ahh, thanks for explaining, I didn't know that.

Jar_Ek

If they fixed bleeds (so they actually worked, including with shields and block so that they are not negated/reduced after application). Added bleeds and disorients to Ruffian triggers. Added the effect of DW Expert to Slaughter and created a new passive that gave some stamina back on light attacks (less than on heavy). And gave blade cloak a real damage resistance {vs all attacks not just aoe} that would go a long way to making DW more effective.

Khivas_Carrick

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Momentum is pretty much required if you're a melee DPS, 20% damage is just too much to give up on, meaning you have to use a 2hand even if you're not actually using that two hand. Having a neutral, all-class Major Brutality skill would be amazing (rework weapon power potions into something else).

Since patch 1.6 any skill that provieds the major weapon damage buff is unnecessary since it doesn't stack with potions. (Same with major spell damage and regen buffs)

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Momentum is pretty much required if you're a melee DPS, 20% damage is just too much to give up on, meaning you have to use a 2hand even if you're not actually using that two hand. Having a neutral, all-class Major Brutality skill would be amazing (rework weapon power potions into something else).

Since patch 1.6 any skill that provieds the major weapon damage buff is unnecessary since it doesn't stack with potions. (Same with major spell damage and regen buffs)

lol no. I love Rally, it's a freakishly powerful self heal and compliments my build wonderfully. Plus it's nice to have when you don't/can't afford the time, effort, or gold to constantly up keep Weapon Potions.

OdinForge

Arcanasx wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Looking at duel wiled you would think that the 300 extra weapon power was a big deal until you look at the base damage and scaling between DW and 2 handed. 2handed base damage and scaling far out paces duel wield skills. Wrecking blow without empower is leaps and bounds stronger than any other duel wield skill single target or otherwise except flurry, but flurry is out damaged by wrecking because it takes less time to use. Even worse flurry is not actually a 1.3 seconds channel but more like a 3 second channel. Wrecking on the other hand appears to get faster the more you spam it. Brawler is less damage than whirlwind but offers far more survivability. Even the slaughter passive is weeded out when 2handed is given almost the exact same effect with executioner.

There's a lot of things that actually need cleaning up with duel wield. I made a thread about it a few weeks back actually:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158876/dual-wield-discussion-and-feedback#latest

But...but...we can throw daggers! In fact, we can throw them with a weapon in each hand! Who needs to get up close as a Dual wielder when you can throw daggers from afar! Gap closers are for the weak!

They could have given DW and 2H really cool attack skills, instead we got flying blade and wrecking blow. When i heard about DW, i figured there would be cool flashy slash attacks not a thrown dagger. And everything about wrecking blow is lame, it's boring to watch people use it too.

Arcanasx

OdinForge wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Looking at duel wiled you would think that the 300 extra weapon power was a big deal until you look at the base damage and scaling between DW and 2 handed. 2handed base damage and scaling far out paces duel wield skills. Wrecking blow without empower is leaps and bounds stronger than any other duel wield skill single target or otherwise except flurry, but flurry is out damaged by wrecking because it takes less time to use. Even worse flurry is not actually a 1.3 seconds channel but more like a 3 second channel. Wrecking on the other hand appears to get faster the more you spam it. Brawler is less damage than whirlwind but offers far more survivability. Even the slaughter passive is weeded out when 2handed is given almost the exact same effect with executioner.

There's a lot of things that actually need cleaning up with duel wield. I made a thread about it a few weeks back actually:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158876/dual-wield-discussion-and-feedback#latest

But...but...we can throw daggers! In fact, we can throw them with a weapon in each hand! Who needs to get up close as a Dual wielder when you can throw daggers from afar! Gap closers are for the weak!

They could have given DW and 2H really cool attack skills, instead we got flying blade and wrecking blow. When i heard about DW, i figured there would be cool flashy slash attacks not a thrown dagger. And everything about wrecking blow is lame, it's boring to watch people use it too.

Yep, nothing like throwing a dagger from a melee skill line while you have a weapon in each hand...and nothing to do with parries or ripostes; dual wielding's greatest realistic strength.