Current state of Templars

bosmern_ESO

Just wanted to know what everyone's opinion on Templars are (preferably from those who main a Templar). What are you're opinions? I'd also like to mention I'm talking 95% about Templars in pvp.

When I play with my group I love my templar, because I enjoy the support role in groups, but when I try and play alone its just terrible, I feel like I cant do anything but give my enemies free AP. I'm at the point where I think Templars should get a massive overhaul. The two abilities (breath of life and Aura) that made Templars the best support class got nerfed and now resto staff is better for group play.

What attracted me to Templars is that they are DPS/support classes, but you can only choose one and not the other as Magicka Templars aren't anywhere near as strong as the Stamina templar counterpart.

These are just my thoughts, would love to hear other what others think of this class.

Francescolg

Yes, 100% right. The main problem atm (patch 1.6) is how they nurfed our healing/critical-healing, while at the same time lowering HP 30% (our HP-based absorb shield, etc.). Radiant Aura, one of our strongest (support) skills, was also nurfed into the ground and practically removed from the game..

For me, the biggest problem is the total lack of "special skills" for the class, which would make it outstanding, a simple design error: ultimates that su_k, too long skill animations, very low DoT-damage, unattractive passive skill synergies, etc.etc. Sorcerers have a free instant 35% proc "KILL", just by using magic. Sorcs have bolt escape, etc.., this skills define their character/class. DKs have their Batman style, very good CC, etc. NBs can constantly appear and disappear, while hurting you.. (DoTs will not hinder them to disappear, as in most other MMORPGS...) All those skills I refer to as 'outstanding' skills.

Most of our skills never do it through the absorb shield of another class, damage-wise. It is a pitty! I can not express my feelings concerning that matter, cause it would result in a life long forum-ban.. So, I stop talking about this topic.

ESO has turned into an egoshooter with the last patch (I'm not refering to siege weapons!), favorizing classes which have escape skills (our "escape" was blazing shield, or a SIGNIFICANT heal, both has been taken away), or classes which can obtain good defense, while at the same time maxing offense (stamina builds, sorcerer, etc.). As a templar you gotta choose between high magicka, or another choice. At the current state of the game, you'll (just my bet) see more and more "smite clerics", let's say heal-spec'd templars in heavy armor.

If you are a group-player, stick to the class. If you want a class with more-or-less fair chances in most 1v1 encounters (and these happen also in group play) DO NOT play Templar. Level another class!

Do not believe everything people tell you, like: "get two pieces of Nirm-armor, etc... THIS will safe you". It won't, don't forget armor/magic penetration! To be really "as resistant as before 1.6", you'll need much higher resistances (30k+)

FireCowCommando

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

bosmern_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

earth_angel

it reflect my feelings also.

FireCowCommando

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

i am magicka, to be a magicka templar you have to be focused entirely on defense until they run out of their burst, then you slowly pepper in dots until you feel comfortable to switch to deeps (this could take a few minutes to get to). rune focus is core, shield stacking is core.

You must be extremely good with weapon swapping to even cast one ability and cancel animation by weapon swapping back. I highly recommend running frost clench (frost destro) for the immobilize since templars have none, and vampires bane for your slow.

The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources, the bad news is you still need to survive with your bad dmg mitigation. Most fights you will win are entirely based off running them out of resources or getting them to be greedy through surviving for so long. To survive stamina users you MUST have frost clench and rune focus as magicka, otherwise you wont be able to peel them off of you to out heal their deeps

Edit: Basically, if they hit hard, your going to have to outplay the hell out of them to win.

ToRelax

FireCowCommando wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

i am magicka, to be a magicka templar you have to be focused entirely on defense until they run out of their burst, then you slowly pepper in dots until you feel comfortable to switch to deeps (this could take a few minutes to get to). rune focus is core, shield stacking is core.

You must be extremely good with weapon swapping to even cast one ability and cancel animation by weapon swapping back. I highly recommend running frost clench (frost destro) for the immobilize since templars have none, and vampires bane for your slow.

The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources, the bad news is you still need to survive with your bad dmg mitigation. Most fights you will win are entirely based off running them out of resources or getting them to be greedy through surviving for so long. To survive stamina users you MUST have frost clench and rune focus as magicka, otherwise you wont be able to peel them off of you to out heal their deeps

Edit: Basically, if they hit hard, your going to have to outplay the hell out of them to win.

I was trying to create templar builds for my guildies, including Frost Clench... but it's obvious weakness would be DKs with scales, right? So what do you do against those?

bosmern_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

i am magicka, to be a magicka templar you have to be focused entirely on defense until they run out of their burst, then you slowly pepper in dots until you feel comfortable to switch to deeps (this could take a few minutes to get to). rune focus is core, shield stacking is core.

You must be extremely good with weapon swapping to even cast one ability and cancel animation by weapon swapping back. I highly recommend running frost clench (frost destro) for the immobilize since templars have none, and vampires bane for your slow.

The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources, the bad news is you still need to survive with your bad dmg mitigation. Most fights you will win are entirely based off running them out of resources or getting them to be greedy through surviving for so long. To survive stamina users you MUST have frost clench and rune focus as magicka, otherwise you wont be able to peel them off of you to out heal their deeps

Edit: Basically, if they hit hard, your going to have to outplay the hell out of them to win.

Yea, I guess my problem is, is I'm trying to hard to go into killing them quickly. I'm trying to play it like my DK or Nightblade I guess. Thanks for the tips.

Baconlad

Personnaly I have only one issue with templar and its the damn reflect skill. Can't use that and a cc at the same time, if they made it so that the bubble was cast on ME and gave a set amount of reflects...i would be happy camper. Kinda like annulment but instead of an absorb, its a reflect. It's ok to use solo I you don't cc, and even then only usefull on magicka so...yeah its meh. Stam templar is a great build. High health/ high magicka regen is a great build for blazing shield, with puncturing sweeps and charge....or you can go full regen build and turtle up, take on four enemies at a time, just blocking and healing yourself. I run this build with two dos, they sneak around while I run around unstealthed. Enemies attack me, I turtle, buddies jump out stealth and nuke while I heal, its funny cause no one knows who to attack, the defensive as *** healer they cant kill or the dps who are getting healed by me. I call our set up the OP top leader board butthole slayer...we respond to zone chat about certain major players and kill them over and over...so fun

driosketch

ToRelax wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

i am magicka, to be a magicka templar you have to be focused entirely on defense until they run out of their burst, then you slowly pepper in dots until you feel comfortable to switch to deeps (this could take a few minutes to get to). rune focus is core, shield stacking is core.

You must be extremely good with weapon swapping to even cast one ability and cancel animation by weapon swapping back. I highly recommend running frost clench (frost destro) for the immobilize since templars have none, and vampires bane for your slow.

The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources, the bad news is you still need to survive with your bad dmg mitigation. Most fights you will win are entirely based off running them out of resources or getting them to be greedy through surviving for so long. To survive stamina users you MUST have frost clench and rune focus as magicka, otherwise you wont be able to peel them off of you to out heal their deeps

Edit: Basically, if they hit hard, your going to have to outplay the hell out of them to win.

I was trying to create templar builds for my guildies, including Frost Clench... but it's obvious weakness would be DKs with scales, right? So what do you do against those?

DKs with scales, 1h+Shield defensive stance plus vampires' bane on the other bar. Reflect, reflect back. It's what I was using on them before the 4 reflect limit was put into place.

FireCowCommando

I also forgot to mention that you should really be a vampire as magicka templar, since mistform is almost non optional survival tool

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166406/video-magicka-templar-gameplay-one-of-the-first-i-intend-to-make-more#latest

Watching him play might give you an idea as to why

Mumyo

FireCowCommando wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Group play, templars fun like you said.

Solo play is also really fun! You take your time finding that 1v1 or 1v2, sitting in stealth for very long time to try to make sure you can have fun. Then the 3rd guy shows up... and it gets harder. Once the 4th guy shows up you just stop doing anything and run.

You do your best to go back, and find a good fight again. Its pretty *** since you dont have any choice in the matter. All you can do is try as hard as you possibly can to find a good fight, and if you get interrupted you die.

I have done the run away tactic sooo many times once the fight gets to the point where its unwinnable due to numbers, and the amazing thing is no matter how long you spend running, ducking behind corners, and just trying to gtfo it doesnt matter. I could not tell you the amount of times ive been chased for 5-15 minutes before a group of 4-6 players finally get me.

They see a templar and something clicks in their brains that no matter how long it takes they are getting that kill. Sorc's people give up on, NB people give up on, DK's... Well the DK motto is 'hey guys, i know that group is huge but lets yolo into it'.

If you enjoy running around a lot on a horse, sitting in stealth as huge numbers of players go past, even letting solo players move on because you think theres going to be a few more any second, then templar solo play is for you.



TL:DR - Its hard as hell trying to find a good fight solo. Running is pointless once you start getting teamed up on because players really want to finish the templar kill quest

Are you a stamina or magicka build?

I've tried countless magicka builds (because I'm a healer for my guild first, solo fighter second) and none of them seem to really work for me. If I had enough champion points I'd be able to go into both magicka and stamina but I'm going to need like 2000 champion points for that.

i am magicka, to be a magicka templar you have to be focused entirely on defense until they run out of their burst, then you slowly pepper in dots until you feel comfortable to switch to deeps (this could take a few minutes to get to). rune focus is core, shield stacking is core.

You must be extremely good with weapon swapping to even cast one ability and cancel animation by weapon swapping back. I highly recommend running frost clench (frost destro) for the immobilize since templars have none, and vampires bane for your slow.

The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources, the bad news is you still need to survive with your bad dmg mitigation. Most fights you will win are entirely based off running them out of resources or getting them to be greedy through surviving for so long. To survive stamina users you MUST have frost clench and rune focus as magicka, otherwise you wont be able to peel them off of you to out heal their deeps

Edit: Basically, if they hit hard, your going to have to outplay the hell out of them to win.

"The good news is templars can be build to have bonk's resources" I dont understand that, in terms of ressource, we dont have battle roar or the awesome regen from nightblade. How could u ever have more ressources? Id really love to know.
Aura is 10% and no match to those regens, i dont know exactly what sorcerers (just that they have awesome ressources).

Pls tell me how u would be superior here.

Soris

I guess he meant the Channeled Focus and Aura(passive) since he plays magicka build. When stacked, they give roughtly 600 macika regen (480 + 10% of max regen) It is huge bonus. Thus heavy armor magicika builds are absolutely doable.
But I think stamina regen is more important even in a magicika build. It's currently big problem for templars imo after blazing shield. Aura is too bad currently to call it a stamina regeneration skill. And the other morph requires dead bodies around which isn't handy in most situations when playing solo. Hopefully it will get a buff soon or stack with poitons.

Maphusail

Totally agree with all the comments.

It looks like the only effective way to fight for a magicka based dps templar is to cast spells from behind a shoulder of your buddy DK CCing an enemy player. Otherwise you could be wiped out in a few seconds.
As for me I've found Sorc to be the most relatively easy class to fight against between the three others classes. Maybe because it's mainly not melee DD class (I don't speak about guys running heavy armor, 2 h and pets).

Someone asked what is an effective way of dealing with DK's taloons. Considering that you always lack stamina as a magicka dps it could probably be better to just instantly cast purifying ritual to cleanse from taloon's DOT and then rune focus. No need to panic if you got stuck in taloons.
Someone suggested to be a vampire, I would say that it makes you unacceptably weaker against fire damage. Mist form could be a great escape option if the pros of using it have overweighted the cons of being a vampire. The only good alternative I've found for 'runaway' option is to use invisibility potions that last 30 seconds. It gives you enough time to create space and hide/regroup from chasing players.

Does anyone have thoughts on effective and sustainable build for magicka dps templar?

I'm currently working on it but couldn't find yet the balanced offensive/defensive combination.

On my first bar I use Destro staff as a weapon with the following skills: Dark Flare, Vampire Bane, Crushing Shock, Eclipse (not morped yet) and Breath of Life.
On my second bar I use Sword&Board as a weapon and the following skills: Immovable, Repentance, Absorb Magicka, Blazing Shield and Breath of Light.
I understand that the effectiveness of this build is yet to be proven and maybe I would replace some skills and add Radiant Oppression as offensive instead of Eclipse and Rune Focus as defensive instead of Immovable or Absorb Magicka.

And what are your suggestions, guys? What builds do you use?

TheElementalPlatypus

Templar magic has nothing, the problem was the class was created as support, so they have bad damage, bad defense with B shield, and crap mobility.

My advice - reroll NB/sorc if you want to play solo, you need mobility, which they both have.

Kas

State of Templars?

Magicka:

Pretty decent in groups. there will always be plenty dead enemies around so repentance is a HUGE staminaheal. other classes have great sustain but getting flashed still helps them and let's them cast damage skills more often.
Blazing spear is great for what it does: minor (but useful unlike jabs) CC, decent damage, especially per cast due to the dot and burning light procs and a synergy which allows DK's to stay as tanky as they once were.
Thanks to repentance, my stamina sustain even allows me to cast tons of in-combat speedbuffs.

Solo, it's all all doom and gloom. Sure, you can still easily kill new or bad players. But if i killed that sorc because i reflected a meteor and a crystal frag and then just executed, i don't think this says ANYTING about the tmplar in itself. Futher, I think it is possible to build a char with only weapon skills that kills new players with ease - with whatever class passives. Obviously, this makes solo templar no better - even if it's possible to kill stuff.
The biggest problem, by far, is the lack of any escape mechanism. This is not only needed to escape from zergs entirely but also to pick your targets, or even to recover after a mistake before you re-engage. Imho it's just not possible as magicka templar.

Stamina:

Again, can be a good char with decent success, but when put in comparison to other classes, it becomes much less appealing.

In groups, you have a passive buff to weapon damage and class spells like aura (the same as the SECODNARY effect of tripot), purifying ritual (better cast by magicka templar), repentance (TERRIBLE idea in groups if corpses could also be used by magicka templars), blazing shield (scaling off a low HP pool) to contribute in addition to the damage you deal through weapon skills (which is good but every class can do that). I just do not see how any of those things is even remotely comparable to a stamina nightblade who contributes it's fear.

Solo, you get pretty decent survivability for a stamina build with a cheap and good purge (purifying) and a decent magicka sink for survivability (blazing shield). I had lot's of fun playing as solo stamina templar for a week. However, escaping is still only to dodge roll with a bow (or use quick cloak when dw) and sprint in medium armor behind the next thing to LOS and pray you get out of combat quickly enough. Again, this is inferior to what other classes can do, especially nightblades.


In clonclusion, I'd say magicka templars in groups are in a good spot, solo stamina templars are in a decent, yet non-optimal spot (stam NB's are better at very similar things). The other combinations are just stricly worse than what other classes can do, imho.

bosmern_ESO

Soris wrote: »

I guess he meant the Channeled Focus and Aura(passive) since he plays magicka build. When stacked, they give roughtly 600 macika regen (480 + 10% of max regen) It is huge bonus. Thus heavy armor magicika builds are absolutely doable.
But I think stamina regen is more important even in a magicika build. It's currently big problem for templars imo after blazing shield. Aura is too bad currently to call it a stamina regeneration skill. And the other morph requires dead bodies around which isn't handy in most situations when playing solo. Hopefully it will get a buff soon or stack with poitons.

They really do need to do something about Aura. I mean its understandable why they got rid of 80% because in 1.6 there are no hard caps and people already get 3k+ stamina/magicka regen which would just over do it, Not to mention if an Emperor had it?

Putting it at 10% was a very bad decision, either add additional buffs to it or raise the amount of it.

eliisra

There's so many problem. I feel mostly how the old design and idea of the templar class just cant keep up with the directions of 1.6.

All you can do now effectively is heal- and support bot with bodyguards, while staying close to the guy with Rapid Manuevre.

Templar has no escapes and no mobility, because apparently supposed to be able to tank and out-heal dmg in PvP lol.
This clearly went out the window after the update. Stuff hits to hard, avoiding dmg and kiting is the viable way to stay alive. Templar has no tools for that. So you desperately hit your shield a few times, wave your healy hand in the air, than explode. The class needs a skill badly that helps with mobility.

Same goes for combat. Burst and offensive is more effective than defence since the update. This penalizes Templar as a class the most. Least potential for burst. Either adjust game-play or adjust templars to fit into it.

To a certain degree this also goes for magicka DK's, but it's only *** and tears for them, not disaster.

Other issue is all the clunky, useless and broken skills. Even the cast time with Breath of Life got ninja-nerfed with "improved animations". I appreciate what they tried with Eclipse and Toppling Charge for like the fifth time. But doesn't change a thing. What skills are you supposed to use after you charged into another player? Biting Jabs and give everyone in a cone area free cc immunity?

bosmern_ESO

eliisra wrote: »

There's so many problem. I feel mostly how the old design and idea of the templar class just cant keep up with the directions of 1.6.

All you can do now effectively is heal- and support bot with bodyguards, while staying close to the guy with Rapid Manuevre.

Templar has no escapes and no mobility, because apparently supposed to be able to tank and out-heal dmg in PvP lol.
This clearly went out the window after the update. Stuff hits to hard, avoiding dmg and kiting is the viable way to stay alive. Templar has no tools for that. So you desperately hit your shield a few times, wave your healy hand in the air, than explode. The class needs a skill badly that helps with mobility.

Same goes for combat. Burst and offensive is more effective than defence since the update. This penalizes Templar as a class the most. Least potential for burst. Either adjust game-play or adjust templars to fit into it.

To a certain degree this also goes for magicka DK's, but it's only *** and tears for them, not disaster.

Other issue is all the clunky, useless and broken skills. Even the cast time with Breath of Life got ninja-nerfed with "improved animations". I appreciate what they tried with Eclipse and Toppling Charge for like the fifth time. But doesn't change a thing. What skills are you supposed to use after you charged into another player? Biting Jabs and give everyone in a cone area free cc immunity?

Exactly.

I'm not trying to complain and say "templars are so bad, pls buff zos" but I feel they need a re-write on their skills. In many other games I played support characters had high mobility and lots of damage mitigation through shields, but Templars only have half that.

The way templars are built, makes me want to zerg dive like a DK, but I can't. Mainly because once my Blazing shield goes down I'm done for, mainly because Templars have no self buffs, all we get is aura, shield, and focus. (that's no where near the amount of buffs a class needs to fight multiple people)

I'm beginning to think ZoS needs to completely re-do Templars, give them all new abilities for everything and maybe some different passives. I'd love to be a high mobility support class.

FireCowCommando

Theres a number of templars running different builds at the moment that recently did a long discussion as to how they feel they should be playing in this meta. They are rather seasoned players who have a pretty good handle on their play styles. Many builds actually can work, but you really have to maximize the core base combat aspects of this game to be competitive, especially as templar.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166251/sunday-april-19-discussion-templar-builds-tactics

Soris

eliisra wrote: »

There's so many problem. I feel mostly how the old design and idea of the templar class just cant keep up with the directions of 1.6.

All you can do now effectively is heal- and support bot with bodyguards, while staying close to the guy with Rapid Manuevre.

Templar has no escapes and no mobility, because apparently supposed to be able to tank and out-heal dmg in PvP lol.
This clearly went out the window after the update. Stuff hits to hard, avoiding dmg and kiting is the viable way to stay alive. Templar has no tools for that. So you desperately hit your shield a few times, wave your healy hand in the air, than explode. The class needs a skill badly that helps with mobility.

Same goes for combat. Burst and offensive is more effective than defence since the update. This penalizes Templar as a class the most. Least potential for burst. Either adjust game-play or adjust templars to fit into it.

To a certain degree this also goes for magicka DK's, but it's only *** and tears for them, not disaster.

Other issue is all the clunky, useless and broken skills. Even the cast time with Breath of Life got ninja-nerfed with "improved animations". I appreciate what they tried with Eclipse and Toppling Charge for like the fifth time. But doesn't change a thing. What skills are you supposed to use after you charged into another player? Biting Jabs and give everyone in a cone area free cc immunity?

Templars and DKs are supposed to stand still and fight face to face with enemies. This is what their archetype is and what they did mostly before 1.6.
This isn't possible anymore as you said. But just because it isn't possible anymore, doesn't mean we should drop our much lovely class of choice and become some kind of trickster rogue like these pesky nightblades all around? Hell no! We are the holy paladins and knights of Tamriel to protect the weak(in this case NBs and Sorcs) and the realm!

On a serious note, we don't need any escape tool but we need some solid tanking tool. This new meta and the burst is out of control right now. It needs some serious adjustments that's for sure. Adjustments on power stacking and our defensive skills are much needed. (and health points)
Maybe then we will have a chance to do again what we did before update 6.

bosmern_ESO

Soris wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

There's so many problem. I feel mostly how the old design and idea of the templar class just cant keep up with the directions of 1.6.

All you can do now effectively is heal- and support bot with bodyguards, while staying close to the guy with Rapid Manuevre.

Templar has no escapes and no mobility, because apparently supposed to be able to tank and out-heal dmg in PvP lol.
This clearly went out the window after the update. Stuff hits to hard, avoiding dmg and kiting is the viable way to stay alive. Templar has no tools for that. So you desperately hit your shield a few times, wave your healy hand in the air, than explode. The class needs a skill badly that helps with mobility.

Same goes for combat. Burst and offensive is more effective than defence since the update. This penalizes Templar as a class the most. Least potential for burst. Either adjust game-play or adjust templars to fit into it.

To a certain degree this also goes for magicka DK's, but it's only *** and tears for them, not disaster.

Other issue is all the clunky, useless and broken skills. Even the cast time with Breath of Life got ninja-nerfed with "improved animations". I appreciate what they tried with Eclipse and Toppling Charge for like the fifth time. But doesn't change a thing. What skills are you supposed to use after you charged into another player? Biting Jabs and give everyone in a cone area free cc immunity?

Templars and DKs are supposed to stand still and fight face to face with enemies. This is what their archetype is and what they did mostly before 1.6.
This isn't possible anymore as you said. But just because it isn't possible anymore, doesn't mean we should drop our much lovely class of choice and become some kind of trickster rogue like these pesky nightblades all around? Hell no! We are the holy paladins and knights of Tamriel to protect the weak(in this case NBs and Sorcs) and the realm!

On a serious note, we don't need any escape tool but we need some solid tanking tool. This new meta and the burst is out of control right now. It needs some serious adjustments that's for sure. Adjustments on power stacking and our defensive skills are much needed. (and health points)
Maybe then we will have a chance to do again what we did before update 6.

The one thing that Allows DK's to be able to fight a group of people effectively is that they have tons of self buffs.

DragonKnight:
Spiked armor
Dragon blood
Reflective Scales
Inferno
Molten Weapons
Obsidian shard
Magma armor
(along with the many passives that beef up DK's)

Templar:
Sun Shield
Restoring Aura
Channeled focus
Empowering sweep (Morph of Radial sweep)
(a few good, but less passives that beef up Templars

Dragon knights have one DPS skill tree, and two tanky/support trees, while Templars have 2 DPS trees and one support/healing skill tree.

That's what Templars are missing, they need to loose one of the DPS trees (and buff the only DPS tree they have so they can have competitive DPS to other classes because aedric spear and dawns wrath alone aren't enough to compete with other classes) for a defensive tree. Templars should probably be the most versatile class in the game, they should be able to stand on their own or support a group depending on how you build them. I could see a good amount of the abilities Templars have to be deleted in exchange to make them better.

I was even told last night by a Sorcerer that I found and fought, I put up a good fight. He had amazing burst damage and I whispered him after the fight that what he did was amazing with the timing of his abilities and he replied "yea, you took me by surprise, When I saw you I thought "Oh a Templar, easy kill" " That is not what people should be thinking about a Templar.

I hate how a warrior with a gift from the Aedra is so weak, there really needs to be changes for them, and I'm glad ZoS admitted that with 1.6 by changing up some much needed stuff for us.

Cinbri

Any skilled templar can post their pvp video? Current templar state is too depressive.

Maphusail

Cinbri wrote: »

Any skilled templar can post their pvp video? Current templar state is too depressive.

FireCowCommando has provided a link to the discussion thread about some of the pvp builds 3 posts above. It's DivineCross and 2 other guys' builds. When I watch it I get inspired of possibility to play and not be insta killed. But still i can't imagine myself to use the same build and be successful against even a small group of 2 or 3 mixed DK/ NB's.

Perphection

I've played Templar for quite awhile, lots of skills have been broken since launch, many are useless, and Jesus beam is still OP.

earth_angel

Not that OP. This morning I was attacked by a VR 14 templar in a cyrodil dungeon. He was spamming jesus beam and it was barely affecting me since HoT and puncturing strikes were healing me for more than he could do damage to me...

Jesus beam is useful, but only in execute range.

Maphusail

Agreed, that Beam is not OP anymore. Besides, it can be interrupted.

cozmon3c_ESO

Stamina based templar i fought the other day killed me with one move with full shield up. Biting jabs. its doable, and it was unexpected to say the least. dodge roll for days.

Magicka based Templars are lacking in there animation speeds for magicka damage class skills but i think the damage is there. They can heal like the craziest mofoes you have ever seen as well. if your going magicka damage as a templar and not weaving in the bomb awesome healing powers you are going to lose to a sorc that weaves in hardened ward between attacks.

Need an escape as a templar, become a vampire and use mist form for getting away (add another speed buff with it and you will be flying accross the map). spamming mist form is what will get you killed though, you will always always get away if you use it once, the second or third time they will tab target you and start eating away at your health. hide behind the terrain and trees and heal up if you are low. roll dodge around trees and stuff if you are a stam templar.

Linkanton

Templars are viable. here's a video from @blabafat showing us how.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH83vFV0tJs

that's a 5L 1H 1M templar you're seeing, and it's 1vX-ing like crazy

earth_angel

Blabafat is an awesome player who is really smart , uses his environment well and knows exactly when to attack and when to retreat. I bet he would be far stronger if he used another class.

Kas

Linkanton wrote: »

Templars are viable. here's a video from @blabafat showing us how.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH83vFV0tJs

that's a 5L 1H 1M templar you're seeing, and it's 1vX-ing like crazy

i'm pretty sure something like this is also doable with weapon/armror skilsl opnly and whatever class' passives. using the terrain well, catching palyers off-guard and especially killing noobs all work regardless of class balance.
I can also 1vX well on my TP in several situations. That doesn't change the fact that 1) other classes can do better and most importantly 2) it only works when you're klucky with the amount of enemies incoming. you cannot pick your fights as templar - at least FAR FAR worse than any other class. And picking your fights is the #1 thing when runnign solo / in groups < 4.

I don't know @blabafat because he sdeems to be NA. But my guess is, most (all?) of his videos are under the bridge and include allies runnig around are due to that very fact. Move away from such a safety-position and you start to feel the templar pain