Crushing Shock Vs Force Shock

Carter_DC

Since I'm not that good a damage dealer, i wanted to know if my choice of the crushing shock (whose interrupt is invaluable) over the Force shock wasn't too detrimental.

I tested with my VR14 Sorcerer, with 31k magika, 2446 spell damage, and about 40 points in Elemental Expert.
Tested Without Elemental Drain of a plain old VR4 Mamoth.

With Power Surge on :

............. Crushing Shock........|......... Force Shock
Fire..... : 1604 - (crit) 2407 .....|..... 1717 - (crit) 2576
Shock.... : 1681 - (crit) 2522 .....|..... 1801 - (crit) 2701
Cold..... : 1592 - (crit) 2388 .....|..... 1704 - (crit) 2556
------------------------------------|-------------------------
Total.... : 4877 - (crit) 7317 .....|..... 5222 - (crit) 7833
%age loss : -6.6% .....  -6.6%

With Power Surge off :

............. Crushing Shock........|......... Force Shock
Fire..... : 1472 - (crit) 2208 .....|..... 1591 - (crit) 2386
Shock.... : 1543 - (crit) 2314 .....|..... 1667 - (crit) 2501
Cold..... : 1461 - (crit) 2191 .....|..... 1578 - (crit) 2367
------------------------------------|-------------------------
Total.... : 4476 - (crit) 6713 .....|..... 4836 - (crit) 7254
%age loss : -7.5% .....  -7.5%

Some ppl told me that choosing the CS would result in a much higher than the advertised 10% damage loss, that actually is the opposite, and afaic I'm ok with a 6.6% damage loss if i get the interrupt back.

I'll be testing this week on some raid bosses to check if theses percentages are still the same.

Cuyler

The damage seems to be inconsequential when using a sorc, generally as you said it does not warrant losing the interrupt.

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

Erock25

Cuyler wrote: »

The damage seems to be inconsequential when using a sorc, generally as you said it does not warrant losing the interrupt.

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

I figured it would be the opposite as Flame Lash > Force Pulse.... or am I wrong? Sorc has no spammable DPS so Force Pulse is a must IMO. I am awaiting the OP's tests on raid bosses however as the tests on the mammoths was fairly surprising.

Nestor

It makes sense that Crushing Shock would put out a little less damage (6 to 7% is nothing really) as you are essentially negating any magic attacks or casted skill attacks against you. The damage received reduction more than makes up for the loss in damage dealt. If it is supposed to be 10% less, that is news to me. Even if it was 10% less, or even 15% less, Crushing Shock would still be the better Morph.

Nestor

Cuyler wrote: »

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

Do you have the same armors and passives on both? If your DK is not in Light Armor and or does not have the passives that increase spell penetration, or is more Stamina based than magic based, it could account for the differences. In that the passives of a Light Armor Sorcerers makes up for some of the 10% loss that is supposed to be there.

Cuyler

Erock25 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

The damage seems to be inconsequential when using a sorc, generally as you said it does not warrant losing the interrupt.

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

I figured it would be the opposite as Flame Lash > Force Pulse.... or am I wrong? Sorc has no spammable DPS so Force Pulse is a must IMO. I am awaiting the OP's tests on raid bosses however as the tests on the mammoths was fairly surprising.

Flame lash is single target, Force pulse is essentially AoE so does more dps in smaller trash pulls. In addition, Force pulse is ranged and has the advantage for most scenarios. Flame lash is only better if single target and you don't mind being in melee range. Tomato/Tomatoe both have their time to shine.

Nestor wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

Do you have the same armors and passives on both? If your DK is not in Light Armor and or does not have the passives that increase spell penetration, or is more Stamina based than magic based, it could account for the differences. In that the passives of a Light Armor Sorcerers makes up for some of the 10% loss that is supposed to be there.

Same on both in regards to armor/armor passives. Class passives obv not and that is why the DK excels at Force Pulse vs. CS. The additional flame damage from DK passives is multiplicative over the additional enemies caught by Force pulse and therefore has a more noticeable dps change when using FP vs. CS on a DK vs. Sorc.

Cuyler

Nestor wrote: »

It makes sense that Crushing Shock would put out a little less damage (6 to 7% is nothing really) as you are essentially negating any magic attacks or casted skill attacks against you. The damage received reduction more than makes up for the loss in damage dealt. If it is supposed to be 10% less, that is news to me. Even if it was 10% less, or even 15% less, Crushing Shock would still be the better Morph.

It depends, I agree when dealing my Sorc.

But in terms of my DK, he is often within melee range and has no problems doing a manual interrupt when needed. As stated the dps increase he sees from force pulse is noticeable and worth the additional effort to manual interrupt.

Jules

Cuyler wrote: »

The damage seems to be inconsequential when using a sorc, generally as you said it does not warrant losing the interrupt.

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

Use molten whip instead.

Jules

Nestor wrote: »

It makes sense that Crushing Shock would put out a little less damage (6 to 7% is nothing really) as you are essentially negating any magic attacks or casted skill attacks against you. The damage received reduction more than makes up for the loss in damage dealt. If it is supposed to be 10% less, that is news to me. Even if it was 10% less, or even 15% less, Crushing Shock would still be the better Morph.

I don't agree. Force pulse is better for dps. When do you even need interrupts that you can't just bash? Always always choose the higher damage morph as a dps.

Nestor

Jules wrote: »

I don't agree. Force pulse is better for dps. When do you even need interrupts that you can't just bash? Always always choose the higher damage morph as a dps.

Unless of course I have a squishy Light Armored character that does best at range, regarding survival.

I may try Force Shock on my Iconoclast DK (Heavy Armor Magic Based) to see if there is a difference. However I tried to put Invasion on the destro bar and that does not give me the closing interrupt, by the time I get to the caster it's too late.

So, I will probably stay the way it is with Crushing Shock as that is more effective in the overall battle.

Can't DPS if your dead.

Jules

Nestor wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

I don't agree. Force pulse is better for dps. When do you even need interrupts that you can't just bash? Always always choose the higher damage morph as a dps.

Unless of course I have a squishy Light Armored character that does best at range, regarding survival.

I may try Force Shock on my Iconoclast DK (Heavy Armor Magic Based) to see if there is a difference. However I tried to put Invasion on the destro bar and that does not give me the closing interrupt, by the time I get to the caster it's too late.

So, I will probably stay the way it is with Crushing Shock as that is more effective in the overall battle.

Can't DPS if your dead.

Won't be dead with:
1) healers 2) undaunted passives.

Best in slot gear for casters is 5 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy. 6% increase to all stats and two pieces give you increased physical & spell resist. Even in melee range I'm fine.



Also for dk's,
molten whip > force pulse > crushing shock

Erock25

Someone else put it best when first discussing FOrce Pulse hitting harder than Crushing Shock when they said their guild has Sorcs use Force Pulse and DKs use Crushing Shock since DKs use Whip as their spam anyways especially considering they need close to melee range to activate their dots anyway.

Jules

Erock25 wrote: »

Someone else put it best when first discussing FOrce Pulse hitting harder than Crushing Shock when they said their guild has Sorcs use Force Pulse and DKs use Crushing Shock since DKs use Whip as their spam anyways especially considering they need close to melee range to activate their dots anyway.

That could work I suppose. Since its not their optimal spammable ability, dk's could theoretically run it.

However, even with that, I still wouldn't really be in favor of crushing shock for dk's. Atleast not myself.

In hel ra hard mode, and other situations where dk's can't be close, their dps already drops significantly as they can't apply dots consistently. Choosing the lesser dps morph so you can occasionally use the interrupt it provides just doesn't seem worth it to me. I would have more use for the increased damage at ranged than the interrupt 8 days a week.

Nestor

Jules wrote: »

Won't be dead with:
1) healers 2) undaunted passives.

Ah, well, since my Undaunted is L3 on the character that is highest in that Guild and I run solo, so few healers are around unless an altruistic soul happens by as I am in a fight, these two things don't apply to me.

Jules

Nestor wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Won't be dead with:
1) healers 2) undaunted passives.

Ah, well, since my Undaunted is L3 on the character that is highest in that Guild and I run solo, so few healers are around unless an altruistic soul happens by as I am in a fight, these two things don't apply to me.

Then yes, I understand why you run your spec the way you do.

Cuyler

Jules wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Someone else put it best when first discussing FOrce Pulse hitting harder than Crushing Shock when they said their guild has Sorcs use Force Pulse and DKs use Crushing Shock since DKs use Whip as their spam anyways especially considering they need close to melee range to activate their dots anyway.

That could work I suppose. Since its not their optimal spammable ability, dk's could theoretically run it.

However, even with that, I still wouldn't really be in favor of crushing shock for dk's. Atleast not myself.

In hel ra hard mode, and other situations where dk's can't be close, their dps already drops significantly as they can't apply dots consistently. Choosing the lesser dps morph so you can occasionally use the interrupt it provides just doesn't seem worth it to me. I would have more use for the increased damage at ranged than the interrupt 8 days a week.

It's these particular situations why I prefer to use force pulse>molten whip. Simply because trying to squeeze in a "close" range molten whip could spell instant death. All other times where I can get into close range with minimal risk, yes I agree molten whip> force pulse.

Cuyler

Nestor wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Won't be dead with:
1) healers 2) undaunted passives.

Ah, well, since my Undaunted is L3 on the character that is highest in that Guild and I run solo, so few healers are around unless an altruistic soul happens by as I am in a fight, these two things don't apply to me.

Still, in most situations CS is not needed and from my own experience, once learned to make do without, I wouldn't go back. I use it on my sorc because its been put on the back burner to use when I want a lazy run and the dps loss isn't as noticable.

Joy_Division

Jules wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

It makes sense that Crushing Shock would put out a little less damage (6 to 7% is nothing really) as you are essentially negating any magic attacks or casted skill attacks against you. The damage received reduction more than makes up for the loss in damage dealt. If it is supposed to be 10% less, that is news to me. Even if it was 10% less, or even 15% less, Crushing Shock would still be the better Morph.

I don't agree. Force pulse is better for dps. When do you even need interrupts that you can't just bash? Always always choose the higher damage morph as a dps.

Not as clear cut as this. If I am running Hel-Ra, I want force pulse because I can bash the unthinking flamespinners. If I am PvPing, I want the interrupt 95% of the time.

Septimus_Magna

Crushing Shock has been my favorite but I recently switched to Force Pulse to increase my dps. The increase is very significant in my experience, with CS it was pretty hard to get more than 11k single target dps, with FP I regularly get 12k+ single target dps, for bosses with adds FP will only make this difference bigger. I would say the difference on my sorc is about 1k-1,2k single target dps. I use CF as interrupt, it procs quite often so its a good replacement for the CS interrupt.

For pve: Force Pulse but Crushing Shock is also oké if you want the ranged interrupt.
For pvp: Crushing Shock, no question about it.

Jules

Joy_Division wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

It makes sense that Crushing Shock would put out a little less damage (6 to 7% is nothing really) as you are essentially negating any magic attacks or casted skill attacks against you. The damage received reduction more than makes up for the loss in damage dealt. If it is supposed to be 10% less, that is news to me. Even if it was 10% less, or even 15% less, Crushing Shock would still be the better Morph.

I don't agree. Force pulse is better for dps. When do you even need interrupts that you can't just bash? Always always choose the higher damage morph as a dps.

Not as clear cut as this. If I am running Hel-Ra, I want force pulse because I can bash the unthinking flamespinners. If I am PvPing, I want the interrupt 95% of the time.

The mobs spawn in the middle on right side hel ra now. Bashing them manually is incredibly easy and CS is a wasted morph if it's just for hel ra. PVP is entirely different. CS makes sense there.

xMovingTarget

Erock25 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

The damage seems to be inconsequential when using a sorc, generally as you said it does not warrant losing the interrupt.

However, my DK sees a much higher dps loss and I therefore use Force Pulse for him.

I figured it would be the opposite as Flame Lash > Force Pulse.... or am I wrong? Sorc has no spammable DPS so Force Pulse is a must IMO. I am awaiting the OP's tests on raid bosses however as the tests on the mammoths was fairly surprising.

Yea, molten whip works better for dps. Downside = always melee range

For that I put force pulse in second bar. So I am not naked and useless when you have to be on range in those rare range only moments.

Also helps when you have to run up to the enemy(Manticora i. E.). You can dps while running to the target. When reached it, swap back to whip and usual business. Slap dat - snip-.

But yea, as dk i much prefer force pulse. Even in hel ra. Its not hard to bash you know. Never relied on CS there. Not needed.

Wisler89

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Bounee

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

I think you forgot that you are still loosing also the aoe character of the spell which is for me also important in situation you described. I use crushing shock but i will maybe test it how it is with the dmg on single target on my character.

Cuyler

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

The OP test was on a single mammoth. FP damage increase becomes even more noticeable when attacking multiple targets, as in vdsa.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I have been using Crushing Shock too as I find the interrupt to be a useful boon. Crushing Shock is mostly just a filler to get Crystal Fragments to proc for me anyway. I think that's where the real damage is along with LL.

Joy_Division

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Force Pulse has an AOE component that is rather easy to proc.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Force Pulse has an AOE component that is rather easy to proc.

I agree it's a great alternative if you want the extra damage and don't care about the interrupt. Honestly this isn't about which one is better, it's about which one is better for you. They are both great for different reasons.

Wisler89

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Force Pulse has an AOE component that is rather easy to proc.

I agree it's a great alternative if you want the extra damage and don't care about the interrupt. Honestly this isn't about which one is better, it's about which one is better for you. They are both great for different reasons.

Hmm, I think you describe it best, I like Crushing Shock because of the interrupt, I never have troube with AoEing down mobs in VDSA (where I use Elemental Ring). Another Sorc in my guild uses Force Pulse but he says that a Crushing Shock user in the group makes VDSA a little easier.

Jules

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Force Pulse has an AOE component that is rather easy to proc.

I agree it's a great alternative if you want the extra damage and don't care about the interrupt. Honestly this isn't about which one is better, it's about which one is better for you. They are both great for different reasons.

Agreed, it comes down to preference and style of gameplay.

Force pulse = better dps
Crushing shock = interrupt

Lol we could've just saved our time and read the tool tips.

Septimus_Magna

Jules wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

I find it curious how so many people prefer force pulse simply because it does "10% more damage". Even if this is true (and the OP showed us it is quite a bit less dps loss if you use Crushing Shock) the impact on overall damage of force pulse instead of crushing shock is quite minimal. Crushing Shock on my Sorc deals about 20-30% of all damage done, meaning the overall increase I would see if I used Force Pulse would be about 3%. I'm not willing to give up the interrupt (which is especially useful in Vet-Arena) for such a small overall damage increase.

Force Pulse has an AOE component that is rather easy to proc.

I agree it's a great alternative if you want the extra damage and don't care about the interrupt. Honestly this isn't about which one is better, it's about which one is better for you. They are both great for different reasons.

Agreed, it comes down to preference and style of gameplay.

Force pulse = better dps
Crushing shock = interrupt

Lol we could've just saved our time and read the tool tips.

Well I think the point was to know how much dps you gain with the 'better dps' morph to judge if its worth sacrificing the ranged interrupt.

Valymer

Since switching to Force Pulse I've gotten a lot better at just getting up in the mob's face and bashing it to interrupt. Not always an option but you'd be surprised