Are Your Healers Using Combat Prayer for Trials?

Cuyler

Hi all,

Just wanted to get an idea of those of you experienced healers actively doing trials still using combat prayer as of 1.6. Is it required or is it worthless? Please comment as to why or why not.

Happy Hunting!

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

Lol....Combat prayer.....not Comment prayer /facepalm.

Jules

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

Yes. It has a dmg barrier, I believe ~8% dmg increase and its a heal.

DeLindsay

No, Comment Prayer is not worth it anymore because....

Unfortunately in ZoS's infinite wisdom (ahem) they made it so that the +8% damage bonus from Combat Prayer doesn't stack with other +8% damage bonuses making that part of it useless (for some Players) in 1.6. It also won't stack with the 2nd Healer if they also use Combat Prayer. Blessing of Restoration being a larger Healing volume and area plus it's longer Minor Ward/Resolve makes it much more worthwhile now. I wouldn't say I use that ability a ton since in Trials on ANY Boss where the group stacks, Healing Springs is far superior to ANY other Healing ability.

However in fights that are spread out, or high movement it's nice to have the larger conal Blessing for a spot Heal. It's also the only way for non-Templars to achieve individual Heals over 10K, short of Healing Ward if it expires at full strength on a Player that was nearly dead so it was fully +300% Bolstered.

Jules

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Unfortunately in ZoS's infinite wisdom (ahem) they made it so that the +8% damage bonus from Combat Prayer doesn't stack with other +8% damage bonuses making that part of it useless

Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this. Is it considered a major/minor buff now? (I'm not in front of my comp so I can't check the tool tip).

If not do you know of specific abilities it doesn't stack w?

DeLindsay

No, Comment Prayer is not worth it anymore because....

Jules wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Unfortunately in ZoS's infinite wisdom (ahem) they made it so that the +8% damage bonus from Combat Prayer doesn't stack with other +8% damage bonuses making that part of it useless

Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this. Is it considered a major/minor buff now? (I'm not in front of my comp so I can't check the tool tip).

If not do you know of specific abilities it doesn't stack w?

Minor damage buff (Berserk). The Major is +20% like the Death Stroke Ultimate for Nightblades and Wrecking Blow in 2H +25% like Sorc's Atronach Ultimate. Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users) and Grim Focus (plus both morphs) for Nightblades.

Jules

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Unfortunately in ZoS's infinite wisdom (ahem) they made it so that the +8% damage bonus from Combat Prayer doesn't stack with other +8% damage bonuses making that part of it useless

Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this. Is it considered a major/minor buff now? (I'm not in front of my comp so I can't check the tool tip).

If not do you know of specific abilities it doesn't stack w?

Minor damage buff (Berserk). The Major is +20% like the Death Stroke Ultimate for Nightblades. Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users) and Grim Focus (plus both morphs) for Nightblades.

Okay cool. So it still may be viable for healers to run to buff dk's/sorcs it seems. Ps, thanks for the info

DeLindsay

No, Comment Prayer is not worth it anymore because....

Jules wrote: »

Okay cool. So it still may be viable for healers to run to buff dk's/sorcs it seems. Ps, thanks for the info

Not if either are Stamina DPS since they'd likely have Flawless Dawnbreaker slotted on their main DPS bar. And sorry I was wrong, Major is +25%, you can see that on Sorc's Atronach Ultimate.

Jules

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Okay cool. So it still may be viable for healers to run to buff dk's/sorcs it seems. Ps, thanks for the info

Not if either are Stamina DPS since they'd likely have Flawless Dawnbreaker slotted on their main DPS bar. And sorry I was wrong, Major is +25%, you can see that on Sorc's Atronach Ultimate.

Yeah I figured, I know stam use flawless for the passive. I'm a magicka based dk and can't think of any abilities when slotted or use that increase my dmg like that.

DeLindsay

No, Comment Prayer is not worth it anymore because....

I will put my original comment another way and considering that Stamina DPS is the new Meta (Combat Prayer won't stack with Flawless Dawnbreaker).

• Templar = Combat Prayer > Blessing of Restoration (they have other large Heals, so Utility is good).
• Non-Templar = Blessing of Restoration > Combat Prayer (largest single Heal button they have access to, and you should see what DK Healers can do with it).
• Trials = Both, 1 from each Healer if possible.

Dragnelus

DeLindsay wrote: »

I will put my original comment another way and considering that Stamina DPS is the new Meta (Combat Prayer won't stack with Flawless Dawnbreaker).

• Templar = Combat Prayer > Blessing of Restoration (they have other large Heals, so Utility is good).
• Non-Templar = Blessing of Restoration > Combat Prayer (largest single Heal button they have access to, and you should see what DK Healers can do with it).
• Trials = Both, 1 from each Healer if possible.

Does it scale with the 5% dmg for 20 sec from mountain's blessing? I can test it myself cause its only for allies not myself( I trying to get combat prayer in my set up and changing it for rapid healing. But if it wont scale I will get rapid healing back.

halfbadger

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users)

Flawless Dawnbreaker gives a passive 8% weapon damage. It does not give the minor damage buff.
The only two places to get the minor dmg buff are combat prayer and Grim Focus (plus both morphs). If you have combat prayer on you then casting grim focus is a dps loss.
Combat prayer should be used.

Dragnelus wrote: »

Does it scale with the 5% dmg for 20 sec from mountain's blessing?

Mountain's Blessing increases wpn dmg of all allies within 30m by 5% for 20 seconds. It does not provide the minor dmg buff.

Dragnelus

halfbadger wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users)

Flawless Dawnbreaker gives a passive 8% weapon damage. It does not give the minor damage buff.
The only two places to get the minor dmg buff are combat prayer and Grim Focus (plus both morphs). If you have combat prayer on you then casting grim focus is a dps loss.
Combat prayer should be used.

Dragnelus wrote: »

Does it scale with the 5% dmg for 20 sec from mountain's blessing?

Mountain's Blessing increases wpn dmg of all allies within 30m by 5% for 20 seconds. It does not provide the minor dmg buff.

Cool I looked into it. So 5% wpn dmg + 8% overall dmg means 13% weapon dmg and 8% extra dmg on skills used. What if somebody is using flawless breaker does that mean 21% weapon dmg?

Jules

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

halfbadger wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users)

Flawless Dawnbreaker gives a passive 8% weapon damage. It does not give the minor damage buff.
The only two places to get the minor dmg buff are combat prayer and Grim Focus (plus both morphs). If you have combat prayer on you then casting grim focus is a dps loss.
Combat prayer should be used.

Dragnelus wrote: »

Does it scale with the 5% dmg for 20 sec from mountain's blessing?

Mountain's Blessing increases wpn dmg of all allies within 30m by 5% for 20 seconds. It does not provide the minor dmg buff.

Thanks for clearing this up. So definitely worth it for all dps. NB's should just not use grim when in stack points w combat on them.

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

Thanks for the feedback all, just the kind of input I was looking for.

halfbadger wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Two of the Minors I know it doesn't stack with are Flawless Dawnbreaker (for Stamina users)

Flawless Dawnbreaker gives a passive 8% weapon damage. It does not give the minor damage buff.
The only two places to get the minor dmg buff are combat prayer and Grim Focus (plus both morphs). If you have combat prayer on you then casting grim focus is a dps loss.
Combat prayer should be used.

I guess the question is does a skill provide the minor beserk or minor brutality even if it's not stated in the tool tip? For example, is Flawless Dawnbreaker's weapon damage buff considered a minor brutality buff?

I don't see why Combat Prayer wouldn't stack with FD because FD would be considered minor brutality (if it was stated in the tool tip at all) and Combat prayer IS minor beserk, so they should stack correct? Maybe a bug?

I could see FD not stacking with mountain's blessing because they are essentially the same minor brutality buff.

Now I have to search for every skill that provides minor berserk hehe here we go

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

After an exhaustive search of the skills it appears that @halfbadger is indeed correct. The Atronach, Grim Focus and Combat Prayer are the only three skills to provide minor berserk with Grim Focus and Atronach only applying to the caster.

Combat prayer is the only skill to provide the minor berserk buff to allies. Is indeed a bonus to the raid.

Thanks all for your help!

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

So I've come to a conclusion here but I'm still interested in hearing more of your opinions!

Alcast

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

YES

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

So many "doesn't stack withs" in this game, it's pathetic.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Edit.

Dragnelus

5kheals with combat prayer and a combat buff only for 8 secs or 8k heals with good buffs for 16 sec. Igneous shield + prayer is big heals! I also buff 5% wpn dmg. Someone else may cast the combat prayer not worth it.

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

Dragnelus wrote: »

5kheals with combat prayer and a combat buff only for 8 secs or 8k heals with good buffs for 16 sec. Igneous shield + prayer is big heals! I also buff 5% wpn dmg. Someone else may cast the combat prayer not worth it.

Please vote! Thanks.

Dragnelus

Cuyler wrote: »

Dragnelus wrote: »

5kheals with combat prayer and a combat buff only for 8 secs or 8k heals with good buffs for 16 sec. Igneous shield + prayer is big heals! I also buff 5% wpn dmg. Someone else may cast the combat prayer not worth it.

Please vote! Thanks.

Its from a vr4 perspective I havent done any trails yet only veteran mode dungeons ( Thats why I havent voted yet.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

any and everything is nerfed because some pvp'er whined to his momma

Dragnelus

@DeLindsay I tested healing ward with 10% hp on my own and 50% on my own. I got around 19k hp. Im a dk healer.

With 10% hp I get 20.7k+ healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 1.6k makes it a total of 22k heal.

With 55% I get 9.7k healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 2.7k healing makes it a total of 13k heal

With Blessing of restorastion I get 7k healing.

Atm Im rank 4. 10 in bastion for my shielding Igneous Shield, bone surge and Healing ward gives more helaing back! and 9 in Blessed. and some points for extra mana regen. Thats all the points I got atm. So the healing will be bigger at vr14!!

Cuyler

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

Dragnelus wrote: »

@DeLindsay I tested healing ward with 10% hp on my own and 50% on my own. I got around 19k hp. Im a dk healer.

With 10% hp I get 20.7k+ healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 1.6k makes it a total of 22k heal.

With 55% I get 9.7k healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 2.7k healing makes it a total of 13k heal

With Blessing of restorastion I get 7k healing.

Atm Im rank 4. 10 in bastion for my shielding Igneous Shield, bone surge and Healing ward gives more helaing back! and 9 in Blessed. and some points for extra mana regen. Thats all the points I got atm. So the healing will be bigger at vr14!!

The idea is not that combat prayer be the only heal on your bar obv but a part of the larger rotation. Clearly the heal is not as large as the other heals but just as a note:

Healing ward = 1 player
Regeneration = 2 players
Combat prayer = 5 players + 8% all damage buff

Your Mountain blessing is only buffing WD, Combat prayer is buffing all damage (a lot of dps is magicka) and it's possible these stack but I need to confirm myself. I can understand in a 4 man group or solo combat prayer is not going to provide much utility, but in a group of 12+ it certainly makes a large difference in damage output (when used in the proper situation) and is a nice supplement heal to the other large heals.

The huge heal from ward occurs only when the target is at low health, it's even a moderate heal at half health as compared to other say Templar heals. I have an issue with a healer consistently waiting until a player is 50% or even worse 10% HP before they get a heal out so Ward is more of an "oh $#!t" button at best and on one player.

Dragnelus

Cuyler wrote: »

Dragnelus wrote: »

in a group of 12+ it certainly makes a large difference in damage output (when used in the proper situation) and is a nice supplement heal to the other large heals.

Exactly! I think its better for a Templar healer to have it or a support dps. For me as a dk healer the other prayer gives more benefits. Bigger heal but also bigger area and longer buff duration.

Valymer

Cuyler wrote: »

I can understand in a 4 man group or solo combat prayer is not going to provide much utility, but in a group of 12+ it certainly makes a large difference in damage output (when used in the proper situation) and is a nice supplement heal to the other large heals.

I think it still makes a nice difference in 4-man groups, and I try to keep it on the dps at all times.

I look at it like:

Assuming 10k dps per member (x2 for two dps) = 20k dps

20,000 dps * 0.05 bonus = 1,000 dps

Obviously these are ideal conditions and would never actually be reached but hey it helps. Being a sorc I don't have BoL so I often spam the sh*t out of Combat Prayer on a big pull (with Healing Springs thrown in there when I can)

In trials it seems the bonus from Combat Prayer would be a lot more significant too, especially on tight stacks like the storm atronach in AA

monkeyzealer

Yes, I wouldn't go into a trial without Combat Prayer.

it Front Cone which heals multiple people and it gives Minor Berserk, Minor Resolve, and Minor Ward.

DeLindsay

No, Comment Prayer is not worth it anymore because....

Dragnelus wrote: »

@DeLindsay I tested healing ward with 10% hp on my own and 50% on my own. I got around 19k hp. Im a dk healer.

With 10% hp I get 20.7k+ healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 1.6k makes it a total of 22k heal.

With 55% I get 9.7k healing back and when I apply it it always heals a short amount that was 2.7k healing makes it a total of 13k heal

With Blessing of restorastion I get 7k healing.

Atm Im rank 4. 10 in bastion for my shielding Igneous Shield, bone surge and Healing ward gives more helaing back! and 9 in Blessed. and some points for extra mana regen. Thats all the points I got atm. So the healing will be bigger at vr14!!

As a DK Your Blessings will be gigantic with the right gear (stacking Magicka and Spell Damage). I'm a NB and even mine crits for well over 10K. Also, personal opinion on this, Healing Ward is junk compared to Ward Ally (IF) you do more Group content as a Healer or supportive Role than you do Solo content, including 1vX PvP. I found while Healing Vet dungeons, DSA and even Trials that the Ward was gone long before the back end Heal took place and the front end Heal is pathetic.

Dragnelus

@DeLindsay what do you think as a dk would be better combat or restoration? I was thinking to be a dmg buffing healer. With ofc the 5% wpn dmg from Igneous Shield, And Agressive Horn for the 10% magicka hp and stamina but also 30% increased crit dmg for 8 secs amd ele drain. To bad igneous weapon doesnt buff allies anymore (