I don't know how to play anymore and/or Orc Sorc is Broken

Cathexis

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

Sharee

I built my orc around heavy armor and high health regeneration(the 30% bonus is nice), altho i don't know how well that would work with a sorc. You do have a passive that is supposed to increase health regen 20% with a summoning ability slotted, which would stack nicely with the racial(and the 28% heavy armor bonus), and if you had orgnum's scales 5/5 then under 60% life you would have super-high health regen - my DK had 3600 health regen when orgnum kicked in, and i dont have that 20% passive.

Just a thought

Cathexis

I play casually so I'd prefer not to be item dependent.

That said, if I were to chase a set, the one with the summoned dwemer robot is gg for sorcs, so thatd probably be a better option.

SafiyerAmitora

Cathexis wrote: »

...dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward)

You just have to click it again to stop the channel.

Sharee

Cathexis wrote: »

I play casually so I'd prefer not to be item dependent.

That said, if I were to chase a set, the one with the summoned dwemer robot is gg for sorcs, so thatd probably be a better option.

That is just a 2-part set iirc (helm and shoulders) so you can get that and another 5-part set on top of it.

Xsorus

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Mumnoch

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

Quit or reroll. It's 1/4 your race choice and 3/4 your class choice for your bad experiences. Sorc's need overhaul to compete and TBh at the moment a 3 year old child can play the Sorc class effectively (toggles reducing the button rotation to 2-3 /sigh).

Woot crappy toggles!!!!!!

Cathexis

Im probably quitting but I'm debating trying out a dodge roll stamina build. Any thoughts on how I might redux the cost of dodge roll?

Mr.Turtlesworth

yeah imo orcs work best with DK

Cathexis

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

yeah imo orcs work best with DK

this is the problem with how people think in this game

orcs shouldn't work best with anything.

nothing should work best with anything.

anything should work well with anything.

Jar_Ek

Just ignore your racial passives and play how you like... that's what I do as an Argonian.

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

You realize that a DK Stamina Build right now will use basically 3 Class Abilities right?

Fossilize, Reflect, GDB (Which gets replaced with Vigor)

As for your silly comment on Bolt Escape being used to run..and you being 2 casts and out of mana...You wanna know what my DK has to do? I have to pop a Speed Pot..Then proceed to Dodge Roll with my Bow Equipped while Sprinting... The ability to create distance real quick before you do that is an advantage..and will allow ya to escape fights a lot easier.

Granted....a Sorc will catch you..but that happens on pretty much everyone.

So I stand by my original assessment..You'll do about as well as a DK right now running the stamina build..and you will...

OrphanHelgen

Power Surge - Critical hits heals you for 40% of the damage done
Orc passive - Charge attacks deals 6% more damage
2H skill critical charge - Always deals a critical strike

There you go, overpower!

Xsorus

You're better off just using Rally, it'll heal for more.

Bar setup would be

2 Hander
Wrecking Blow/Executioner/Bound Arm/Rally/Crit Charge

Bound Arm simply because you get 8% Bonus Stamina...

Bow would be
Magnum Shot (If Orc, probably doing Knockback/Crit Charge setup), Focused Aim,Camo Hunter,Vigor,Ball of Lightning.

If he don't have Vigor at the time he can run something else..maybe lighting form for the speed boost (and rely on tri pots for heal)

OrphanHelgen

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You're better off just using Rally, it'll heal for more.

Bar setup would be

2 Hander
Wrecking Blow/Executioner/Bound Arm/Rally/Crit Charge

Bound Arm simply because you get 8% Bonus Stamina...

Bow would be
Magnum Shot (If Orc, probably doing Knockback/Crit Charge setup), Focused Aim,Camo Hunter,Vigor,Ball of Lightning.

If he don't have Vigor at the time he can run something else..maybe lighting form for the speed boost (and rely on tri pots for heal)

Yeah agree but rally is boring. Pug

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

You realize that a DK Stamina Build right now will use basically 3 Class Abilities right?

Fossilize, Reflect, GDB (Which gets replaced with Vigor)

As for your silly comment on Bolt Escape being used to run..and you being 2 casts and out of mana...You wanna know what my DK has to do? I have to pop a Speed Pot..Then proceed to Dodge Roll with my Bow Equipped while Sprinting... The ability to create distance real quick before you do that is an advantage..and will allow ya to escape fights a lot easier.

Granted....a Sorc will catch you..but that happens on pretty much everyone.

So I stand by my original assessment..You'll do about as well as a DK right now running the stamina build..and you will...

@xsorusb14_ESO Fossilize (2nd best CC in game.. possibly best CC single target), reflect , gdb (mmm stam regen), 10% extra block mit, extra spell resistance, 5% stamina returns on Fossilize, 5% weapon dmg on Fossilize, Corrosive Armor Ult (3% max inc dmg, plus aoe dmg, plus 100% armor pen), Ferocious Leap Ult (cheap cost, high dmg, kb + 18k dmg shield), two powerful stam based dots (one single target and one aoe) that also snare your opponent, and last but not least the all important Battle Roar passive.

Bolt Escape on a stam build is not an escape. It is a quick way to waste all of your magicka. That is like saying Magnum Shot is an escape.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

You realize that a DK Stamina Build right now will use basically 3 Class Abilities right?

Fossilize, Reflect, GDB (Which gets replaced with Vigor)

As for your silly comment on Bolt Escape being used to run..and you being 2 casts and out of mana...You wanna know what my DK has to do? I have to pop a Speed Pot..Then proceed to Dodge Roll with my Bow Equipped while Sprinting... The ability to create distance real quick before you do that is an advantage..and will allow ya to escape fights a lot easier.

Granted....a Sorc will catch you..but that happens on pretty much everyone.

So I stand by my original assessment..You'll do about as well as a DK right now running the stamina build..and you will...

@xsorusb14_ESO Fossilize (2nd best CC in game.. possibly best CC single target), reflect , gdb (mmm stam regen), 10% extra block mit, extra spell resistance, 5% stamina returns on Fossilize, 5% weapon dmg on Fossilize, Corrosive Armor Ult (3% max inc dmg, plus aoe dmg, plus 100% armor pen), Ferocious Leap Ult (cheap cost, high dmg, kb + 18k dmg shield), two powerful stam based dots (one single target and one aoe) that also snare your opponent, and last but not least the all important Battle Roar passive.

Bolt Escape on a stam build is not an escape. It is a quick way to waste all of your magicka. That is like saying Magnum Shot is an escape.

Fossilize while good isn't needed for the setup he will be running (magnum shot basically takes its place)
Reflect is really the main advantage a dk will have because you will get to bow down other dks, but you'll just have to do crit charge combos on them
Gdb you won't use cause of vigor, you get the buff from tri pots
You won't be blocking with 2 hander build often.. It's usually better and cheaper to dodge
You'll cap spell resist with nirnhoned, so not that big of deal.
You get cheaper stamina cost from being a sorc, plus 8% more stam from bound armor., which makes up for both passives.
Crossive armor isn't super amazing when ya run sharpened two handed maul.. You'll either run overload or flawless as sorc
Leap is ok, till you realize you can't use it while rooted. Overload or flawless are better picks
You won't use either dot with the stam build. Wrecking blow outclasses them.
Battle roar isn't super great with burst stamina builds, it's great for sustain builds where you are fighting multiple people for longer periods of time and want to get the heal plus resources, for burst builds though like stamina two handed you are trying to kill as fast as possible. Meaning the fight shouldn't drag on for long. It is a great passive but it won't separate the classes very much, kind of like the cheaper ultimate cost won't separate sorcs much from dks

The classes aren't very far apart, and most of the things you listed show you lack understanding of stamina dk and stamina sorc builds and how the current meta is. Stick with your magicka suggestions and leave stamina suggestions to people who play it.

Xsorus

Also bolt escape creates distance and will allow us to escape very easily even as stamina.. You realize how many fights i
Could escape if I could port twice before popping speed pot?

Cathexis

I'm stam stacking and going for dodge roll with a BoL opener to absorb magic projectiles.

Charge builds only work if you can escape, which means being a mana build. Being a mana build is my problem.

I've gone healing on hit + regen with high speed dual weilding , crit stacking and batswarm. Seems to be working ok but I haven't tested it in PvP. Not sure what I'm going to use on flip. Was thinking sheild charge with shards

Xsorus

Cathexis wrote: »

I'm stam stacking and going for dodge roll with a BoL opener to absorb magic projectiles.

Charge builds only work if you can escape, which means being a mana build. Being a mana build is my problem.

I've gone healing on hit + regen with high speed dual weilding , crit stacking and batswarm. Seems to be working ok but I haven't tested it in PvP. Not sure what I'm going to use on flip. Was thinking sheild charge with shards

You use magmum shot or Bol to create distance, the build is fairly common for all 4 classes... It doesn't change much between them. What you've gone will not actually play well into your racials but if it works for ya try it.

There is a dk version of the build by Atherian, Or you could watch Sypher night blade version, I'll see when I get home tomorrow if I can find some videos of the different classes running the setup.

The only problem I have with it is it relies on weapon swapping a lot and it's been wonky since 1.6

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

You realize that a DK Stamina Build right now will use basically 3 Class Abilities right?

Fossilize, Reflect, GDB (Which gets replaced with Vigor)

As for your silly comment on Bolt Escape being used to run..and you being 2 casts and out of mana...You wanna know what my DK has to do? I have to pop a Speed Pot..Then proceed to Dodge Roll with my Bow Equipped while Sprinting... The ability to create distance real quick before you do that is an advantage..and will allow ya to escape fights a lot easier.

Granted....a Sorc will catch you..but that happens on pretty much everyone.

So I stand by my original assessment..You'll do about as well as a DK right now running the stamina build..and you will...

@xsorusb14_ESO Fossilize (2nd best CC in game.. possibly best CC single target), reflect , gdb (mmm stam regen), 10% extra block mit, extra spell resistance, 5% stamina returns on Fossilize, 5% weapon dmg on Fossilize, Corrosive Armor Ult (3% max inc dmg, plus aoe dmg, plus 100% armor pen), Ferocious Leap Ult (cheap cost, high dmg, kb + 18k dmg shield), two powerful stam based dots (one single target and one aoe) that also snare your opponent, and last but not least the all important Battle Roar passive.

Bolt Escape on a stam build is not an escape. It is a quick way to waste all of your magicka. That is like saying Magnum Shot is an escape.

Fossilize while good isn't needed for the setup he will be running (magnum shot basically takes its place)
Reflect is really the main advantage a dk will have because you will get to bow down other dks, but you'll just have to do crit charge combos on them
Gdb you won't use cause of vigor, you get the buff from tri pots
You won't be blocking with 2 hander build often.. It's usually better and cheaper to dodge
You'll cap spell resist with nirnhoned, so not that big of deal.
You get cheaper stamina cost from being a sorc, plus 8% more stam from bound armor., which makes up for both passives.
Crossive armor isn't super amazing when ya run sharpened two handed maul.. You'll either run overload or flawless as sorc
Leap is ok, till you realize you can't use it while rooted. Overload or flawless are better picks
You won't use either dot with the stam build. Wrecking blow outclasses them.
Battle roar isn't super great with burst stamina builds, it's great for sustain builds where you are fighting multiple people for longer periods of time and want to get the heal plus resources, for burst builds though like stamina two handed you are trying to kill as fast as possible. Meaning the fight shouldn't drag on for long. It is a great passive but it won't separate the classes very much, kind of like the cheaper ultimate cost won't separate sorcs much from dks

The classes aren't very far apart, and most of the things you listed show you lack understanding of stamina dk and stamina sorc builds and how the current meta is. Stick with your magicka suggestions and leave stamina suggestions to people who play it.

You're talking about the meta and also this guys charge focus orc racial synergizing build in the same post so it is a bit confusing. You should pick one or the other to focus on. Even with Magnum Shot helping out for Crit Charge dmg, Fossilize is too good to pass up. I can survive a not breaking out of a Magnum Shot, but I'm dead if I don't break Fossilize. Fossilize > Magnum Shot even in a Crit Charge focused build.

You say GDB isn't all that great because of Vigor but also say that your spell resist passive isn't useful because of Nirnhorned. Well currently Vigor is out of reach for the vast majority of players but once that gets changed, then Nirnhorned won't be as good. Spell resist is useful no matter what traits you have on your armor (in fact that spell resist passive makes your Nirnhorned more potent) and trying to ignore that it is an advantage the stam DK has over the stam Sorc is disingenuous and clearly shows your bias. I also can't afford to chug tripots on demand so Major Endurance from GDB is very useful compared to not having access to any stam regen outside of pots.

Agreed that dodge roll > block but it is a benefit and 10% is a fair amount.

Bound Armaments usefulness is again up to whether we are discussing meta or the OP's build in particular. A toggle that you will use on both bars comes with a huge opportunity cost that IMO is not worth it when you think about what skills you could have instead of the 8% stamina, 11% more heavy attack dmg, and 20% more health regen (daedric summoning passive).

You want to say Corrosive and Leap aren't that great ... okay, tough for me to argue. My DK has not spent much time in PVP yet. I do know that I've been wtfpwned by a stam DK or two that have utilized Leap and that 3% max hp incoming dmg for 9 seconds sounds extremely tanky. Leap is one of the best shields in the game (+ dmg, + CC, + tripot) and in my honest and unverified opinion, you're crazy not to use it.

Agreed with the stam dots in PVP but I can see builds out there that would utilize the on demand snares.

Battle Roar not that great? Get out of here. You are blinding yourself to the power of your own class. Even burst builds have to fight multiple people and getting a free tripot to go with your ults is extremely powerful.

I know you think stam DK is weak and magicka Sorc is strong, but your hatred is running a bit too deep to even suggest that stam Sorc is in a similar power level of stam DK.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Seriously trying to find a good build, there is absolutely no builds that compliment orc racials I can find except pure defense stacking/aoe/batswarm for pve, and proc based dual wielding.

Here is my problem:
Stamina stack on an sorcerer is useless.
Speed stack on a sorcerer is useless.
Health stacking used to be great with equilibrium, but now eq healing is nerfed so it doesn't stack as well with dark exchange, which was also nerfed with permanent walking (now you have to block to cancel out of it, rather than just walk forward).

Now all of the spells cost too much to use if you are health stacking. Even with quick regen abilities, you can't have a one button spam and health stack anymore.
I can't infinite spam low cost skills anymore, which means charge abilities are useless, which means charge racial is useless
I can't use my health to extend my teleporting range.
I can't use charge out of overload because they took away overload cancelling into a casted ability (but it still costs the cast cost)
They fixed animation cancelling but ONLY with overload, so my animation cancelling combos are so limited they are pointless.

To add insult to injury, the loss of caps means it is more effective to stack defensive abilities, which take up 4 of 5 slots on your bar, not giving you enough room to slot anything that does damage.
So in PvP that means lightweight and damage slotting which gets SLAUGHTERED and which doesn't do anything anymore because it seems like no one is running a lightweight build

Please, please explain to me how I can play well as an orc sorcerer when everythnig that synergizes with orcs keeps getting nerfed to hell.
I genuinely understand that I could just be playing poorly, but I've noticed a consistent trend in my builds where I will come up with something good, a patch hits, my char is nerfed, so I rebuild to something good, refine it to be quasi effective, a patch hits, and then my char is nerfed, and its back to the drawing board.

I have hit a point where there are no effective options anymore. I genuinely need some kind of guidance.

Please bare in mind I'm on the verge of VR12, so i dont have an endgame perspective.

You can run the standard 2hd bow builds on a sorc
Basically something like 3 piece dreugher, 3 piece shadowwalker, 5 piece hunding rage

You 2 handed bar is going to be similar to dk
Wrecking blow, executioner, flex slot, rally, crit charge, ultimate (overload maybe?)
Bow would be poison injection(or magnum shot),focused aim, camo hunter, vigor, flex slot, ultimate (shooting star or flawless dawnbreaker)

You do about as well as a dk will, except you'll have bolt escape to run.

Seriously? As well as a DK in a stamina build? It is clear you have never played a Sorc stamina build and it is clear you have no idea how nice a stam DK is. Bolt escape to run... IN A STAMINA BUILD? 2 casts and your out of magicka. You are really overlooking all the great things a DK gets in a stamina build that a Sorc does not.

As for the OP, the build I'd suggest to best take advantage of your Orc racials is THIS. I normally prefer Rally to Crit Surge but because of your extra charge damage, you may want to consider it. Ball of Lightning + Crit Charge or Magnum Shot + Crit Charge is the way to go. Boundless Storm synergizes well with your increased run speed and reduced sprint cost, but the problem is those weak Boundless Storm dmg tics will deny you Crit Surge heals. You put yourself in a unique position where you have to avoid Spell Crit like the plague and actually have to avoid using Boundless Storm in AOE situations because it will quickly eat all your Crit Surge cooldowns. Bound Armaments gives you the obvious benefits as well as the 20% health regen from the Daedric Summoning passive. Again, Bound Armaments probably doesn't make it into this build except for the fact that you're trying to maximize racial passive usefulness. It certainly isn't a bad skill, but I find a toggle like this that is needed on both bars extremely limiting for PVP.

Boundless Storm + Orc Racials + Bow dodge roll speed bonus will be fun. Heals from Crit Charge + Crit Surge will also be fun... until you run into someone who blocks that is, because there goes your heals.

I left the ultimates blank intentionally, but Power Overload should probably be on your 2h bar because it will do significantly more damage with a 2h melee weapon equipped compared to a 2h ranged weapon. Flawless Dawnbreaker would be great on 2h bar, but I think Overload is a must, and Flawless is much less useful on the bow bar. I'd probably put Ice Comet on bow bar and Power Overload (maybe Energy Overload depending on dmg decrease) on 2h bar.

You realize that a DK Stamina Build right now will use basically 3 Class Abilities right?

Fossilize, Reflect, GDB (Which gets replaced with Vigor)

As for your silly comment on Bolt Escape being used to run..and you being 2 casts and out of mana...You wanna know what my DK has to do? I have to pop a Speed Pot..Then proceed to Dodge Roll with my Bow Equipped while Sprinting... The ability to create distance real quick before you do that is an advantage..and will allow ya to escape fights a lot easier.

Granted....a Sorc will catch you..but that happens on pretty much everyone.

So I stand by my original assessment..You'll do about as well as a DK right now running the stamina build..and you will...

@xsorusb14_ESO Fossilize (2nd best CC in game.. possibly best CC single target), reflect , gdb (mmm stam regen), 10% extra block mit, extra spell resistance, 5% stamina returns on Fossilize, 5% weapon dmg on Fossilize, Corrosive Armor Ult (3% max inc dmg, plus aoe dmg, plus 100% armor pen), Ferocious Leap Ult (cheap cost, high dmg, kb + 18k dmg shield), two powerful stam based dots (one single target and one aoe) that also snare your opponent, and last but not least the all important Battle Roar passive.

Bolt Escape on a stam build is not an escape. It is a quick way to waste all of your magicka. That is like saying Magnum Shot is an escape.

Fossilize while good isn't needed for the setup he will be running (magnum shot basically takes its place)
Reflect is really the main advantage a dk will have because you will get to bow down other dks, but you'll just have to do crit charge combos on them
Gdb you won't use cause of vigor, you get the buff from tri pots
You won't be blocking with 2 hander build often.. It's usually better and cheaper to dodge
You'll cap spell resist with nirnhoned, so not that big of deal.
You get cheaper stamina cost from being a sorc, plus 8% more stam from bound armor., which makes up for both passives.
Crossive armor isn't super amazing when ya run sharpened two handed maul.. You'll either run overload or flawless as sorc
Leap is ok, till you realize you can't use it while rooted. Overload or flawless are better picks
You won't use either dot with the stam build. Wrecking blow outclasses them.
Battle roar isn't super great with burst stamina builds, it's great for sustain builds where you are fighting multiple people for longer periods of time and want to get the heal plus resources, for burst builds though like stamina two handed you are trying to kill as fast as possible. Meaning the fight shouldn't drag on for long. It is a great passive but it won't separate the classes very much, kind of like the cheaper ultimate cost won't separate sorcs much from dks

The classes aren't very far apart, and most of the things you listed show you lack understanding of stamina dk and stamina sorc builds and how the current meta is. Stick with your magicka suggestions and leave stamina suggestions to people who play it.

You're talking about the meta and also this guys charge focus orc racial synergizing build in the same post so it is a bit confusing. You should pick one or the other to focus on. Even with Magnum Shot helping out for Crit Charge dmg, Fossilize is too good to pass up. I can survive a not breaking out of a Magnum Shot, but I'm dead if I don't break Fossilize. Fossilize > Magnum Shot even in a Crit Charge focused build.

You say GDB isn't all that great because of Vigor but also say that your spell resist passive isn't useful because of Nirnhorned. Well currently Vigor is out of reach for the vast majority of players but once that gets changed, then Nirnhorned won't be as good. Spell resist is useful no matter what traits you have on your armor (in fact that spell resist passive makes your Nirnhorned more potent) and trying to ignore that it is an advantage the stam DK has over the stam Sorc is disingenuous and clearly shows your bias. I also can't afford to chug tripots on demand so Major Endurance from GDB is very useful compared to not having access to any stam regen outside of pots.

Agreed that dodge roll > block but it is a benefit and 10% is a fair amount.

Bound Armaments usefulness is again up to whether we are discussing meta or the OP's build in particular. A toggle that you will use on both bars comes with a huge opportunity cost that IMO is not worth it when you think about what skills you could have instead of the 8% stamina, 11% more heavy attack dmg, and 20% more health regen (daedric summoning passive).

You want to say Corrosive and Leap aren't that great ... okay, tough for me to argue. My DK has not spent much time in PVP yet. I do know that I've been wtfpwned by a stam DK or two that have utilized Leap and that 3% max hp incoming dmg for 9 seconds sounds extremely tanky. Leap is one of the best shields in the game (+ dmg, + CC, + tripot) and in my honest and unverified opinion, you're crazy not to use it.

Agreed with the stam dots in PVP but I can see builds out there that would utilize the on demand snares.

Battle Roar not that great? Get out of here. You are blinding yourself to the power of your own class. Even burst builds have to fight multiple people and getting a free tripot to go with your ults is extremely powerful.

I know you think stam DK is weak and magicka Sorc is strong, but your hatred is running a bit too deep to even suggest that stam Sorc is in a similar power level of stam DK.

For all intents and purposes fossilize and magnum shot do the same thing, if i pop u
With wrecking blow while your stuck in either you are screwed, though with magnum it's mostly crit charge you'll follow it with. You can use either basically.
Gdb isn't used after I said once ya get vigor, you can run without it.. I do it on my nightblade for example.
The spell resist passive isn't super amazing, reduced cost on stamina abilities and ultimats are far better passivesre in comparison for these type of builds
Also just because you can't afford to use tri pots in combat doesn't mean anyone else can't. How yiu think I get my regen now since I don't run gdb.
Bound armaments is going to be on your 2 handed bar.. It's simply to good
I prefer flawless over leap, simply for the passive and because leap has failed to work so many times cause of root. Corrosive I don't use cause if my setup
Battle roar is good, but its not amazing like it was.
Stamina dk isn't weak, but magicka sorc is strong

And I know stamina sorc is similar in power level cause I've fought them running the build I talked about, it doesn't vary much between the classes that run it