DKs need a spammable stam DPs ability

Alexander Powerkill

Exactly as I say in the title I feel that DK needs a hard hitting stamina ability. The perfect solution to this is to give a stam morph to whip. NBs have surprise attack. Temps have biting jabs. Sorc is primarily a magicka based class (hence they are only class shown in LA during character creation). It is unfair to dks that either we wrecking blow or we don't really have a viable single target dps move on stam builds. Thoughts?

Derra

Sorcs need a spammable dps ability since launch. Tough luck one could say.

(Funny thing is - if the class had that they most likely would not have buffed burst dmg and nobody would cry)

Xsorus

I want a stamina version of whip so I'm not pigeoned holed into wrecking blow, same with a stamina gap closer. Would love to use dual wield or whip vs wrecking blow as two hander

iseko

I would like a shield on my temp that doesnt scale of health
I would like my heals unnerfed
I would like this global cooldown to dissapear
I would like this spear bug to dissapear.
I would like...

Dk is considered (second) best class mate. Not saying this is not open for discussion but templar/nb need their *** fixed first. Not even buffed. Just fixed would be a great start.

Tankqull

could live with that if its dmg is reduced to 1/6th if its used while using sword and bored™ ( )

Skafsgaard

I agree, stam DKs need something OTHER than wrecking. But nothing too hard hitting though, stamina DKs can be tanky as *** and shouldnt have over the top burst as well. But something like jabs, reliable spammable main dmg class skill attack would be more fun and give more options to the build style, heck even 2H/2H would be cool like that!

Skafsgaard

-.-

Erock25

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Alexander Powerkill

Erock25 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Have you heard of crystal frags? Even without proc its only 1.5 sec cast and harder hitting than anything DK gets.

iseko wrote: »

I would like a shield on my temp that doesnt scale of health
I would like my heals unnerfed
I would like this global cooldown to dissapear
I would like this spear bug to dissapear.
I would like...

Dk is considered (second) best class mate. Not saying this is not open for discussion but templar/nb need their *** fixed first. Not even buffed. Just fixed would be a great start.

Anyone that ranks DK over nb is an idiot. Nb has the most burst DPs in game right now and can run like a cheetah. Also nb has surprise attack for spammable stam ability and concealed weapon for magicka (which is undodgeable BTW)

As for templar you have biting jabs for spammable stam DPS move and you get a passive (burning light) which can proc for up to an additional 3k DMG off each indiv hit of biting jabs. No fix there needed.

OdinForge

I'm surprised more people don't get into DW with flying blade. The damage i feel is mostly underwhelming though compared to pre 1.6 (especially against wrecking blow), with the potential to still hit very high at low HP. And it's ranged, most people don't even realize you're hitting them with it.

I guess in many ways DW still needs more work, to entice stamina builds not to always run 2H. You used to be able to spark 2H users, and avoid wrecking blow (albeit it was way more rare to see). How useful that would still be..now that people are spamming it.

Considering DK doesn't have that many realistic options for attacks, I'd support stamina whip.

Seth_Black

I will say just one thing...

IF you want so SPAM one ability or use Random Button Pressing 'Rotation'
I'm afraid ESO is holding difficulty bar way over your head

No. We don't need this, we don't want this. We do like players using BRAINS to fight and be creative in using their skills.
That's exactly why ESO is so great

...not for dumies

iseko

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Have you heard of crystal frags? Even without proc its only 1.5 sec cast and harder hitting than anything DK gets.

iseko wrote: »

I would like a shield on my temp that doesnt scale of health
I would like my heals unnerfed
I would like this global cooldown to dissapear
I would like this spear bug to dissapear.
I would like...

Dk is considered (second) best class mate. Not saying this is not open for discussion but templar/nb need their *** fixed first. Not even buffed. Just fixed would be a great start.

Anyone that ranks DK over nb is an idiot. Nb has the most burst DPs in game right now and can run like a cheetah. Also nb has surprise attack for spammable stam ability and concealed weapon for magicka (which is undodgeable BTW)

As for templar you have biting jabs for spammable stam DPS move and you get a passive (burning light) which can proc for up to an additional 3k DMG off each indiv hit of biting jabs. No fix there needed.

Cryst frag requires less then 1.5 sec cast

Biting jabs is by far the easiest skill to dodge. Burning light has a 1/4 chance to proc. So at best once per cast of biting jabs. If you are lucky enough to make all four strikes hit. You're just standing there casting it while getting your face melted.

NBs with glass cannon builds are kickass in Small scale pvp. AvA they get blown to bits in ms... Dk's are by far best tanks with relatively good dps on the side. Sorc is the best kiter. NBs are best burst dps. Temps... Do you even play a temp? Or are you just reading skill descriptions?

Alexander Powerkill

iseko wrote: »

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Have you heard of crystal frags? Even without proc its only 1.5 sec cast and harder hitting than anything DK gets.

iseko wrote: »

I would like a shield on my temp that doesnt scale of health
I would like my heals unnerfed
I would like this global cooldown to dissapear
I would like this spear bug to dissapear.
I would like...

Dk is considered (second) best class mate. Not saying this is not open for discussion but templar/nb need their *** fixed first. Not even buffed. Just fixed would be a great start.

Anyone that ranks DK over nb is an idiot. Nb has the most burst DPs in game right now and can run like a cheetah. Also nb has surprise attack for spammable stam ability and concealed weapon for magicka (which is undodgeable BTW)

As for templar you have biting jabs for spammable stam DPS move and you get a passive (burning light) which can proc for up to an additional 3k DMG off each indiv hit of biting jabs. No fix there needed.

Cryst frag requires less then 1.5 sec cast

Biting jabs is by far the easiest skill to dodge. Burning light has a 1/4 chance to proc. So at best once per cast of biting jabs. If you are lucky enough to make all four strikes hit. You're just standing there casting it while getting your face melted.

NBs with glass cannon builds are kickass in Small scale pvp. AvA they get blown to bits in ms... Dk's are by far best tanks with relatively good dps on the side. Sorc is the best kiter. NBs are best burst dps. Temps... Do you even play a temp? Or are you just reading skill descriptions?

First off I have played temp and I know Templar is powerful. What u didn't mention is that Templar has a 25% chance on every hit from biting jabs. So you could hit once or u could proc on all 4 hits.

Second this has nothing to do with DK not getting a stamina spam ability. Yes we are good tanks but we have no dps if specced to tank. I'm saying that for ppl who go stamina DPs build (classic 2h and bow) we need something beside a 1.5 sec charged ability to do sage with. Everyone is bitching about WB spam. This would help reduce it and bring DK back up to par with other classes for dps.

SRIBES

My low slash tool tip is 5k on a heavy armor DK. Lol nuf said.

Draxys

Been saying this in a few threads... We need to trash stamina morphs in favor of morphs that scale off of higher mag/stam or spell/wpn dmg. The current system if having certain morphs unviable for certain builds is problematic when one morph is clearly better (ie, NB ambush).

Gorthax

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Have you heard of crystal frags? Even without proc its only 1.5 sec cast and harder hitting than anything DK gets.

@Alexander Powerkill crystal frags is far from a spammable single target dps skill. Yea you can spam it but most the time will be spent hoping you are not charged (interrupted), bashed (interrupted), crushing shock (interrupted), petrify (interrupted), that templar one (interrupted) or whatever nightblades do to stop things (bows). 1.5 seconds is a long time in pvp. This is why people go for the insta cast morph only.

Gorthax

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that more importantly, Sorc needs spammable stamina DPS morph and also a spammable magicka single target DPS spell.

Have you heard of crystal frags? Even without proc its only 1.5 sec cast and harder hitting than anything DK gets.

iseko wrote: »

I would like a shield on my temp that doesnt scale of health
I would like my heals unnerfed
I would like this global cooldown to dissapear
I would like this spear bug to dissapear.
I would like...

Dk is considered (second) best class mate. Not saying this is not open for discussion but templar/nb need their *** fixed first. Not even buffed. Just fixed would be a great start.

Anyone that ranks DK over nb is an idiot. Nb has the most burst DPs in game right now and can run like a cheetah. Also nb has surprise attack for spammable stam ability and concealed weapon for magicka (which is undodgeable BTW)

As for templar you have biting jabs for spammable stam DPS move and you get a passive (burning light) which can proc for up to an additional 3k DMG off each indiv hit of biting jabs. No fix there needed.

Cryst frag requires less then 1.5 sec cast

Biting jabs is by far the easiest skill to dodge. Burning light has a 1/4 chance to proc. So at best once per cast of biting jabs. If you are lucky enough to make all four strikes hit. You're just standing there casting it while getting your face melted.

NBs with glass cannon builds are kickass in Small scale pvp. AvA they get blown to bits in ms... Dk's are by far best tanks with relatively good dps on the side. Sorc is the best kiter. NBs are best burst dps. Temps... Do you even play a temp? Or are you just reading skill descriptions?

First off I have played temp and I know Templar is powerful. What u didn't mention is that Templar has a 25% chance on every hit from biting jabs. So you could hit once or u could proc on all 4 hits.

Second this has nothing to do with DK not getting a stamina spam ability. Yes we are good tanks but we have no dps if specced to tank. I'm saying that for ppl who go stamina DPs build (classic 2h and bow) we need something beside a 1.5 sec charged ability to do sage with. Everyone is bitching about WB spam. This would help reduce it and bring DK back up to par with other classes for dps.

no it wouldnt stop people from WB spam lol You can have a uber tank that takes hardly any damage while shield block casting, and swap to 2h and wb people to death while dodge rolling attacks for a loooooong time. DKs are amazing

Rylana

There is this hilariously cheap thing called unstable flame. With a solid weapon damage and stamina build it can do some pretty high DoT damage. But you know, big instant numbers are all the rage these days.

So much obsession with "dps"

Rhakon

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

As for templar you have biting jabs for spammable stam DPS move and you get a passive (burning light) which can proc for up to an additional 3k DMG off each indiv hit of biting jabs. No fix there needed.

Jabs are useless until Zos fix it, they grant cc immunity to all targets in range for free.... and they are channeled btw!

Alexander Powerkill

Rylana wrote: »

There is this hilariously cheap thing called unstable flame. With a solid weapon damage and stamina build it can do some pretty high DoT damage. But you know, big instant numbers are all the rage these days.

So much obsession with "dps"

Don't get me wrong unstable flame is great but it is NOT a spam ability. It is a DoT which can be removed by purge, purifying ritual, cloak, etc. It is useless against any DMG shields as it can't crit shields. Also is rendered nearly useless against any Templar.

I don't believe having a stam morph would hurt PvP at all and it would give more options.

noobfury

Wrecking blow is NOT a DK skill.

Lava_Croft

noobfury wrote: »

Wrecking blow is NOT a DK skill.

And Crushing Shock is not a Sorcerer skill, but that never stops people from selectively using it to support whatever point they are trying to make.

cazlonb16_ESO

OdinForge wrote: »

I'm surprised more people don't get into DW with flying blade. The damage i feel is mostly underwhelming though compared to pre 1.6 (especially against wrecking blow), with the potential to still hit very high at low HP. And it's ranged, most people don't even realize you're hitting them with it.

I guess in many ways DW still needs more work, to entice stamina builds not to always run 2H. You used to be able to spark 2H users, and avoid wrecking blow (albeit it was way more rare to see). How useful that would still be..now that people are spamming it.

Considering DK doesn't have that many realistic options for attacks, I'd support stamina whip.

The real reason 2h is almost mandatory for stamina builds atm is Rally, not Wrecking Blow. Permanent 20% weapon damage buff and permanent hot with potentially large burst heal all rolled into one. To players with no access to Vigor ( i.e. the vast majority of the population ) this is even more useful than to the AvA vets.

Dual wield or any other weapon line doesn't have anything remotely as essential to an entire family of builds and until that changes will remain niche. DW damage as such is fine as it is imo.

Alexander Powerkill

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I'm surprised more people don't get into DW with flying blade. The damage i feel is mostly underwhelming though compared to pre 1.6 (especially against wrecking blow), with the potential to still hit very high at low HP. And it's ranged, most people don't even realize you're hitting them with it.

I guess in many ways DW still needs more work, to entice stamina builds not to always run 2H. You used to be able to spark 2H users, and avoid wrecking blow (albeit it was way more rare to see). How useful that would still be..now that people are spamming it.

Considering DK doesn't have that many realistic options for attacks, I'd support stamina whip.

The real reason 2h is almost mandatory for stamina builds atm is Rally, not Wrecking Blow. Permanent 20% weapon damage buff and permanent hot with potentially large burst heal all rolled into one. To players with no access to Vigor ( i.e. the vast majority of the population ) this is even more useful than to the AvA vets.

Dual wield or any other weapon line doesn't have anything remotely as essential to an entire family of builds and until that changes will remain niche. DW damage as such is fine as it is imo.

I completely agree. 2h is only weapon that gives you hot and DPs boost. That's the reason I run it NOT wrecking blow. As a matter of fact wrecking blow to me is one of the most overrated abilities in game as it is fairly easy to run behind caster and interrupt most of the time. However as a DK what other option do you have? Run unstable flame for a dot that every class can remove or easily heal through? Same with burning breath? There is no class based stamina hard hitter so we are forced to go wrecking blow or we lose a lot of potential.

DoctorSwampy

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I want a stamina version of whip so I'm not pigeoned holed into wrecking blow, same with a stamina gap closer. Would love to use dual wield or whip vs wrecking blow as two hander

Stamina morph for Molten Whip pretty please?
Or maybe reform a skill instead like how Repentance is, it changes the ability entirely, giving you good stamina dps class skill. Take away the stamina version of Burning Breath to replace it with the new skill, make it a morph of something like Molten Weapons. Replace Igneous Weapons with some type of attack that is just a quick hit like Whip/Concealed Weapon and does a solid amount of damage, seeing as anyone using that skill uses the execute version of the skill. Just an idea though, could easily be changed.

halfbadger

ChannelTribes wrote: »

My low slash tool tip is 5k on a heavy armor DK. Lol nuf said.

You're not supposed to tell people that...

xylena

halfbadger wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

My low slash tool tip is 5k on a heavy armor DK. Lol nuf said.

You're not supposed to tell people that...

give it a few months for the potatos to gain enough cp, then cyrodiil will once again be dominated by 1h/s perma block casting... NBs are already doing it with swallow soul or surprise attack... i'm all for having an alternative to wrecking blow, but the damage output of block casting offensive abilities needs to be seriously reduced in pvp, at least while using 1h/s

Mumyo

DoctorSwampy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I want a stamina version of whip so I'm not pigeoned holed into wrecking blow, same with a stamina gap closer. Would love to use dual wield or whip vs wrecking blow as two hander

Stamina morph for Molten Whip pretty please?
Or maybe reform a skill instead like how Repentance is, it changes the ability entirely, giving you good stamina dps class skill. Take away the stamina version of Burning Breath to replace it with the new skill, make it a morph of something like Molten Weapons. Replace Igneous Weapons with some type of attack that is just a quick hit like Whip/Concealed Weapon and does a solid amount of damage, seeing as anyone using that skill uses the execute version of the skill. Just an idea though, could easily be changed.

SO we finally all become exactly the same xD
I am drunk now and read the forums and i have to say that someone srsly *** in all our brains. This community really loves to *** itself. Awesome how we ruin our own experience by beeing shitfucks!

Zsymon

iseko wrote: »

Biting jabs is by far the easiest skill to dodge. Burning light has a 1/4 chance to proc. So at best once per cast of biting jabs. If you are lucky enough to make all four strikes hit. You're just standing there casting it while getting your face melted.

Not to mention that Biting Jabs can be interrupted, it's a horrible spell for PvP. Even in PvE you're much more survivable spamming Brawler, since monsters tear into you while you cast Biting Jabs, and unlike with the magicka morph, you don't get healed. I gave up on my Biting Jabs Templar when I started dying to groups of normal monsters in public dungeons.

I definitely agree though Whip should get a stamina morph, it seems a natural evolution, I was very surprised when it didn't happen in 1.6. Maybe it'll pull DKs up from the second-worst class position, and more in line with Nightblades.

Though DKs also need some changes to their class passives, most of them are horribly weak. 2% health regen per slotted Draconic Power skill? Come on, why would they want to make a passive like that. Nightblades get +30% free stam regen and DKs get 2% health regen IF they slot a Draconic skill on both bars. Any Nightblade stam build will always be superior to stam builds from other classes, due to that one passive.

OrphanHelgen

Stamina DK are actually weaker then you think. Earthen heart passives are nice, but not even close to overpowered. The only thing I like, is the aoe reduce armor morph fire breath, or whatever the name is. But I tried that on a boss in vet grotto today, and my dps stayed exactly the same as before I "reduced" the armor. If a boss have 50.000 armor and you reduce it by 5k, thats really nothing. When that is said, how much armor do bosses actually have?

Domander

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Stamina DK are actually weaker then you think. Earthen heart passives are nice, but not even close to overpowered. The only thing I like, is the aoe reduce armor morph fire breath, or whatever the name is. But I tried that on a boss in vet grotto today, and my dps stayed exactly the same as before I "reduced" the armor. If a boss have 50.000 armor and you reduce it by 5k, thats really nothing. When that is said, how much armor do bosses actually have?

Tank probably already debuffed it.