Radiant Ward Vs Blazing Shield

RinaldoGandolphi

So on my new Templar im getting close to being able to morph Sun Shield. Now this is the dillema. I am stamina based, i only use magic for healing and utility, its not something i rely on for doing damage. I know putting up a damage shield will probably help me in some situations.

Looking around however, I have not found any info on Radiant Ward, ziltch for anyone talking about their experiences with it in 1.6.

So in 1.6 we got this:

Radiant Ward
Surround yourself with a solar shield that absorbs damage equal to (30)% of your Max Health.
Each successful hit increases the shield's strength by (5)%.
Nearby enemies take (x) Magic Damage when the shield is activated.
Reduced cost. Shield strengthened further for each enemy hit.

[/b]
Blazing Shield
Surround yourself with a solar shield that absorbs damage equal to (30)% of your Max Health.
Each successful hit increases the shield's strength by (4)%.
Nearby enemies take 50% of damage absorbed when the shield expires.
Deals damage when shield ends based on damage absorbed.

I know in 1.5 and earlier that Blazing Shield was pretty much the way to go period. However, in 1.6 they nerfed damage shields by 15% in Cyrodiil. This means Blazing Shield will have a less value, and now do less damage because it can't absorb as much damage as it used to.

On the flipside, Radiant Ward costs less to cast, increases the shield value slightly, and Radiant Ward does more damage to everyone close to you when you activate it, where as Blazing Shield does more damage at the end to everyone close by.

Is Blazing Shield still the go to now for Templars? or is Radiant Ward now viable due to the increased shield value, increased damage on activation, and lesser cost?

I just want to make sure i am getting the most bang for my buck, it seems Blazing Shield took a very hard nerf in 1.6 as that 15% damage shield reduction is huge in how that skill works with it blowing up at the end.

is anyone out their using Radiant Ward in PVP? or is it still Blazing Shield all the way?

glak

Blazing Shield has always been the default morph pick because it offers more damage with more max health. Radiant Ward does not have a noticeable difference from the base skill.

RinaldoGandolphi

glak wrote: »

Blazing Shield has always been the default morph pick because it offers more damage with more max health. Radiant Ward does not have a noticeable difference from the base skill.

I see well that would make sense then. So if Radiant Ward is just cheaper and don't do much more then then the base skill, then Blazing Shield is pretty much the way to go then.

Vynist

I am currently leveling a Templar right now and I would like to know this as well! Great question.

Francescolg

Go for Blazing shield, no need to discuss cause everyone can read the tooltip and discover that blazing shield is better.

Btw, if you want an absorb shield go for healing ward. If you need more defense go for dodge-chance and resistances (way better atm after the huge nurf).

Skafsgaard

I would go radiant for a stamina build I think, especially if you're single target. If you do aoe rushes, go with blazing.

Kas

nvm

Observant

As a Healer, I have 24k health, so the max shield is ~7.2k. With Blazing Shield that would hit MAX for 3600.

I've been using Radiant Ward since 2.0.1, I like the added shield with every enemy hit. I'd definitely say its viable for zerg bombing/AOE Rushes too.

Edit.. Errr Blazing shield power is increased with every enemy hit too? Am I reading that right? It mentions it half way through the tooltip, but doesn't clarify at the end of it unlike the Radiant Ward tooltip.

Edit#2: I'm a derp show this morning. Forgive me. It's increased from 4% to 5% and apparently that's significant to them. I'll probably swap back to BS after some quick testing tonight.

Imdrefan

Blazing shield is increased 4% per person "tagged" on cast then gives 50% dmg back when it pops.

Radiant ward is increased 5%per person tagged and deals dmg on cast.

technohic

The thing is, in order for you to tag enough people for either of them to take enough damage from the big hitters, you would be in a lot more trouble. All damage to the shield is unmitigated. So basically, its worthless again a single target that will be hitting you with snipe or crystal frags (especially since they likely will be far out of reach to tag them anyway) or wrecking blow, or even a full barrage from jabs. Then in a big fight, if you are close enough to hit some targets to get the 4% or even 5% boost, you are likely dead anyway. About the only use is for blazing shield to burst as an AOE, but explosive charge hits almost as hard and comes with the same delay that we all love in blazing shield.

of course, you could stack the hell out of health to make it better, but good luck killing anything with a brain. Although I am tempted to see what eclipse is like once its fixed. Might be tempted to see how many people kill themselves if I go full health for stats and dive with blazing shield, hit the 1h/shield refect and eclipse what I can. Kind of a TrolYOLO build.

Observant

Imdrefan wrote: »

Blazing shield is increased 4% per person "tagged" on cast then gives 50% dmg back when it pops.

Radiant ward is increased 5%per person tagged and deals dmg on cast.

How do you know BS increase is based via tagged on cast instead of tagged while active?
Both tooltips are identical

RinaldoGandolphi

Thanks for the Advice guys!

After doing some math, I found the following.(I think im right, its early, need coffee)

Say i have 25000 health. 30% of it is 7,500. Now subtract 15% and we get 7,500 - 1125 = a 6375 point shield for both Blazing Shield and Radiant Ward.

Tagging 1 enemy we end up with the following shield values

Blazing Shield - 6675
Radiant Ward - 6750

Tagging 2 enemy we end up with the following shield values

Blazing Shield - 6975
Radiant Ward - 7125

50% of Blazing Shield is 3337 damage for one target tagged, and 3562 daamge for two targets tagged.

Radiant Ward Costs 319 magic less to cast.(A little over 8.3% cost reduction)

I guess it comes down to either choosing an 8.3% cost reduction and slightly stronger shield, or more damage with an increased cost and a slightly weaker shield.

This is going to be a really tough call for me. 8.3% cost reduction is significant, that can be the 1 sec difference between getting that shield up to stop something that may kill you, on the flipside, that seems like a pretty nice bit of extra damage put out by Blazing Shield which should result in killing things faster.

This is a toughy

(PS: If my math is wrong, i apologize, i may have missed something or its early, or both)

Imdrefan

Observant wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Blazing shield is increased 4% per person "tagged" on cast then gives 50% dmg back when it pops.

Radiant ward is increased 5%per person tagged and deals dmg on cast.

How do you know BS increase is based via tagged on cast instead of tagged while active?
Both tooltips are identical

Because the strength of the shield is decided upon activation. The difference is when the damage is dished out. I also speak from experience when I'm being overwhelmed by 4 or 5 people in melee I can tank them for a lot longer and I can visibly see my shield (Blazing Shield) is getting bigger.

I have flirted with switching over to the more cost effective Radiant Ward, but when I kill someone with puncturing sweep and blazing shield while outnumbered, I know that I will never change.

sKorcheD

Imo pvp = blazing better.
Pve tanking = radiant.

Observant

Imdrefan wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Blazing shield is increased 4% per person "tagged" on cast then gives 50% dmg back when it pops.

Radiant ward is increased 5%per person tagged and deals dmg on cast.

How do you know BS increase is based via tagged on cast instead of tagged while active?
Both tooltips are identical

Because the strength of the shield is decided upon activation. The difference is when the damage is dished out. I also speak from experience when I'm being overwhelmed by 4 or 5 people in melee I can tank them for a lot longer and I can visibly see my shield (Blazing Shield) is getting bigger.

I have flirted with switching over to the more cost effective Radiant Ward, but when I kill someone with puncturing sweep and blazing shield while outnumbered, I know that I will never change.

OK so your shield is getting bigger while you're getting slammed by 4-5 people?

eliisra

sKorcheD wrote: »

Imo pvp = blazing better.
Pve tanking = radiant.

Actually think Blazing Shield is better for tanking to. The explosion is a nice dps increase, while it still offers simliar protection. My dps as a templar tank is pretty bad, so every little helps.

They could really do something with Radiant Ward in my opinion. There's a reason no one uses it. Maybe remove the splash dmg from Radiant Ward completely and make it stronger with a longer duration.

The DK shield is a good example of how you should design things. Fragmented Shield does dmg, while the other morphs is for pure survival with increased healing. But as a templar you have 2 shield morphs doing almost the same thing, only difference is one being slightly cheaper and the other one dealing a bit more dmg.

Imdrefan

Observant wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Blazing shield is increased 4% per person "tagged" on cast then gives 50% dmg back when it pops.

Radiant ward is increased 5%per person tagged and deals dmg on cast.

How do you know BS increase is based via tagged on cast instead of tagged while active?
Both tooltips are identical

Because the strength of the shield is decided upon activation. The difference is when the damage is dished out. I also speak from experience when I'm being overwhelmed by 4 or 5 people in melee I can tank them for a lot longer and I can visibly see my shield (Blazing Shield) is getting bigger.

I have flirted with switching over to the more cost effective Radiant Ward, but when I kill someone with puncturing sweep and blazing shield while outnumbered, I know that I will never change.

OK so your shield is getting bigger while you're getting slammed by 4-5 people?

Yes if they are within PBAoE (5m me thinks?)

Imdrefan

I would also like to know what the cap is. I would assume it was 6 targets but that would be hard to test.

RinaldoGandolphi

Not to Necro a thread, but I wanted to chime in with an update.

After Extensive research, and testing, Radiant Ward is the superior morph to Blazing Shield now and is superior in every way with the exception of Templar Tanks who will stack health, and even then its not guranteed.

Radiant Ward damage will scale off Max Magic and Spell Damage. This means with the right build it has the potential to deal more damage then Blazing Shield while also costing less to cast and having a larger shield value.

Radiant Ward also scales far better off the investment in Thaumaturge Champion System allowing it to surpass Blazing Shield. Since HP in general has been nerfed, the shield value is 15% less in Cyrodiil, and Blazing Shield's damage is based on 53% of the shields actual value as the max possible damage, Radiant Ward can scale far better.

Blazing Shield still scales off Thaumaturge, it just doens't scale as well since Blazing relies and scales its damage of Max HP, and Radiant Ward scales its damage off Max Magic and Spell Damage.

Unless your a tank investing everything into HP, Radiant Ward is the better morph now, on top of getting its damage increased via Max Magic and Spell damage, its cheaper cost makes it easier to spam, and its its higher value gives it slightly more defensive utility.

technohic

^ I don't know. Im sitting around 2k spell damage 16k health outside of Cyrodiil and just switched to test. Went from 2k Blazing Shield hits to 900 Radiant Ward hits. Now; in cyrodiil; you get the 15% reduction in shield strength but the extra 5k health more than makes up for it.

I will say one thing though; there is a lot of wasted damage in Blazing Shield as the damage happens when the shield pops. Radiant it hits when you want it. I suppose so would Blazing but you lose damage potential by overlap cast to force the pop.

RinaldoGandolphi

Do you have points invested in Thaumaturge?

Im not discounting Blazing Shield has more burst, i mean Radiant Ward is better because its like you said "it hits when you want it to" where as Blazing Shield not only costs more, but often times folks will be out of range of the explosion which makes it a waste.

considering the amount of times you cast Blazing Shield and no one is in range when it pops, etc...Radiant Ward is just more efficient..you will always hit with it pretty much, it costs less, and nothing is wasted, you can also spam it easier since its cheaper.

I noticed Divine Cross had switched to Radiant Ward on his latest pvp build and has found it easier to spam and keep up, and he does quite well with it.

ThatHappyCat

Radiant Ward's shield strength "increase" is negligible, it gets 1% more strength for each nearby enemy than Blazing Shield. In terms of damage I think Blazing Shield is better even if you go full magicka, the only reason to go Radiant is for the reduced cost really.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

You can put points into bastion on the lord tree and slightly increase the tooltip % of max health of blazing shield. With like 15-17 points the tooltip in Cyrodill goes from 25% to 28%. Although further point commitment into that tree will increase up to 33% - 34% maximum (That in Cyrodiil).

technohic

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Do you have points invested in Thaumaturge?

Im not discounting Blazing Shield has more burst, i mean Radiant Ward is better because its like you said "it hits when you want it to" where as Blazing Shield not only costs more, but often times folks will be out of range of the explosion which makes it a waste.

considering the amount of times you cast Blazing Shield and no one is in range when it pops, etc...Radiant Ward is just more efficient..you will always hit with it pretty much, it costs less, and nothing is wasted, you can also spam it easier since its cheaper.

I noticed Divine Cross had switched to Radiant Ward on his latest pvp build and has found it easier to spam and keep up, and he does quite well with it.

You know what? No. Not sure why either. Think I had seen somewhere that it was broken. Even if not; wouldn't that also affect the damage of Blazing? I guess I am assuming Blazing shield is magicka damage.



Anyway; I didn't switch for the damage boost there. Its terribly ineficient for magicka cost to damage done even if it does land on a target and damage is not the reason I want to use it. Obviously there are flaws in how little more radiant does but the thing is, blazing isn't all that great either so the efficiency is the best part.

iseko

The dmg that radiant ward does is scaled off of magicka/spell dmg. Imho the skill is useless. The dmg of both morphs is pitiful at best. The 4-5% increase on cast per person hit is ridicilous since even the worst dps does 4-5k dps. Blocking with a shield up is again useless (except for CC immunity).

The only way this skill would be useful is if you could get the shield value up to 10-11k. Which is near impossible since it scales of health. They really nerfed this skill 6 feet below ground.

You are better of going for block casting. Reduce incoming dmg as much as possible (resist + blocking). Get magicka and spell dmg up to cast BoL (7-9K heals are fairly easy to get). You'll survive longer.

C0pp3rhead

The shield strength increase to Radiant Ward is pretty paltry. Let's do some calculations:
30k health:
BS - 10k shield / RW: 10k shield.
BS with 5 enemies near (+20% strength) = 12k shield.
RW with 5 enemies near (+25% strength) = 12.5k shield.

That's only a 500 point increase on the shield. In other words, +100 point strength for each nearby enemy (with 30k health)

With CP & armor providing cost reduction, neither skill costs a ridiculous amount. In other words, the cost reduction is a non-issue.


In sum:
Cost: insignificant after accounting for cost reduction CP & items.
Shield Strength: difference between the two morphs is insignificant.
Damage: Blazing Shield is the clear winner here.

RinaldoGandolphi

Its not about the Shield increase value or the damage. Using the skill or even choosing one based on that is entirely missing the point. Radiant Ward is superior in "efficiency" this means you get more bang for your buck.

1. Since the damage Radiant Ward does scales off max magic and spell damage, it benefits from increasing those values. Furthermore, Radiant Ward damage is also increased from investing in the Thaumaturge Champion System Skill line. Radiant Ward damage benefits/scales from 3 sources(Max Magic, Spell Damage, and Thurmaturge), Blazing Shield only benefits from two (Max Health and Thurmaturge) This means Radiant Ward scales better because you have 3 avenues in which to improve the skill vs 2 for Blazing Shield. This means in time, you can get Radiant Ward to do more damage makign it even more efficient.

2. Radiant Ward deals damage on activation, Blazing Shield deals 53% of the damage absorbed when the shield expires or is broken. In terms of pure percentages, you have a much greater chance of actually dealing damage with Radiant Ward. your guaranteed to hit anyone within 5 meter when you turn it on(a 1% increase to sheild is just icing on the cake), with Blazing Shield you must move close or be close to your enemy before it expires, and this more often then not is simply not feasible, especially for a caster type Templar in light armor it will be a death sentence to be close to a user with a two handed sword or a melee nightblade, and doubly true when fighting archers and other ranged classes who will not stay in range of Blazing Shield.

3. Radiant Ward's cost reduction is always realized and never wasted. Blazing Shield's primary benefit (Exploding for 53% of damage at the end) is wasted more often then not...If your fighting an archer or a ranged class, it will be much harder to keep them close enough to get blasted with Blazing Shield, with Radiant WArd even if you play a defensive style, you don't have to be close to the enemy to get the benefit of the cost reduction, its consistent, 100% predictable, and reliable, and you can 100% always count on getting it no matter what...you can't say the same for Blazing Shield.

I have been running Blazing Shield the last two days, just to give it one more round, and tonight im going back to Radiant Ward and staying there...Radiant Ward is a much better use of magic. For what the skill does, a cost reduction with a 1% increase in shield size(cheese) is more efficient then an explosion at the end. That cost reduction is not based on someone being close to me, or me having to get close to someone, or just pure luck someone is not moving away, its guaranteed.

Im not using Radiant Ward for damage, both of the skills are a terrible use or source of damage, and basing a choice to use one or the other on that just simply don't compute with me....i see the skill as a defensive one, and being able to cast it cheaper makes it easier to use other things or allows me to invest elsewhere. Both Radiant Ward and Blazing Shield are terrible from a magic cost to damage dealt ratio, Radiant Ward is just less terrible. my 2 cents

technohic

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

In sum:
Cost: insignificant after accounting for cost reduction CP & items.
Shield Strength: difference between the two morphs is insignificant.
Damage: Blazing Shield is the clear winner here.

1st point depends on if you want to have to spend CP on cost reduction and how much of it you have but you are mostly right to some degree. Still; "a penny saved is a penny earned" doesn't just apply to money as why waste the extra cost if there is not much benefit to doing so even if it is small?

Which goes to the 3rd point. Blazing shields damage is not all that great to begin with when you realize how often it doesn't hit at all. If you can be stuck in a group enough for it to hit some people, you probably are putting yourself in danger anyway that outweighs its benefits.

Both really could use some work as they are relics of pre-1.6 now but it likely will never happen.

ThatHappyCat

IMO Blazing Shield's damage isn't really an "offensive" tool (regardless of how strong or weak it is), it's a soft counter to enemy melee: if they break your shield they take damage. Keep the shield up and they'll be taking constant damage while (hopefully) making little headway into your health. When you think of it that way it's pretty good at what it does.

Radiant Ward's damage may be more controllable but it's really weak even with a fully dedicated glass cannon magicka build. If you have any acceptable amount of health Blazing Shield will always deal significantly more damage. I'd much rather take the extra counter-damage against enemy melee than a relatively insignificant cost reduction.

As it is I think while Radiant Ward may be slightly better against ranged enemies, Blazing Shield is much better against melee enemies.

technohic

I'd really like them to change both. Since the 15% Cyrodiil nerf hurt our shield pretty bad, wouldn't mind seeing them both get increased to being 35% health base and then change blazing to do 4% of its value in damage every second it is up along with the 50% damage taken when it pops and have radiant ward bump it up to 40% strength and increase duration to 10 seconds.

driosketch

Old thread I know but to chime in. Radiant ward over blazing shield.

Look, there are better damage skills to slot and use your magic up on if that's what you're after. And they aren't forcing you to time when they go off so dps doesn't go to waste. Radiant is cheaper, stronger, and gives you more control on the hit, also without waiting. Grinding mobs in PvE, most will be dead by the time blazing goes off. Also managed to survive a zerg train in PvP last night combining puncturing sweep and radiant ward, so there's also that.