Oh my sweet Blackwater, pls never change

Smeag

Just this ^ best pvp ever! Please don't ever change my dear BB

Now where's that pause XP option..

Valencer

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

CP5

Valencer wrote: »

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

I would rather fight level 49's than go to another campaign and deal with the vet zergs of v14's clad in all legendary armor with all the other advantages those levels bring.

Folkb

that says something about the game and how inflated stats and power creep has set in the end game. too much damage/healing and too little HP pool. ZOS really needs to get their numbers in check for endgame.

Hopefully with the removal of vet levels itemization and overall power is toned town.

CP5

Even before this, back when non-vets were equal to level 50's and the mobs were v5 the non-vet campaign has had this, feel around it. It's a lot more enjoyable of a place to be than the other campaigns, even without power creep being considered.

civilizedsavage

I love this campaign. I've gotten several guildies into PvP because of BWB who were overwhelmed in Vet campaigns. I wish they would have optional veteran campaigns for V1-V5, V6-V10, etc.

Rylana

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

Smeag

Rylana wrote: »

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

Well said! That's exactly how I feel about it as well. It's the closest thing to what we were promised. Balanced, stable, and most of all FUN! My fear is that zeni will *** it up somehow, which is why I made this post. Please never change Blackwater!

CP5 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

I would rather fight level 49's than go to another campaign and deal with the vet zergs of v14's clad in all legendary armor with all the other advantages those levels bring.

I'm kind of torn on this subject. On one hand, I would love to be able to have 1 character that I can play in non-vet, rather than having to make a new one each time I level out the old. On the other, level 49's can get quite powerful with the right build and gear and could result in the same terribleness we see in the vet campaigns. That being said.. everyone would have the option of getting to 49 then "twinking" out a character for non-vet, so it would be fair in that respect. If it were up to me I would allow a pause XP option

Valencer

Not being able to halt your XP at lvl 49 is the whole reason Blackwater Blade is the way it is. A lvl 49 who has endless time to max out his skills and passives has a significant advantage over a new lvl 10. Eventually forcing them out disincentives any attempt at min-maxing and prevents a meta from settling in and makes BWB the perfect place for players new to PvP to learn the ropes.

It's a very similar feeling to how ESO PvP was shortly after launch, until the first min-maxed VR10s hit the field.

If you like Blackwater Blade the way it is, don't ask for a pause XP option! That's the worst change they could possibly make. I know it makes me a little sad when I have to reroll a new character for BWB, but it's for the best.

CP5

Smeag wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

Well said! That's exactly how I feel about it as well. It's the closest thing to what we were promised. Balanced, stable, and most of all FUN! My fear is that zeni will *** it up somehow, which is why I made this post. Please never change Blackwater!

CP5 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

I would rather fight level 49's than go to another campaign and deal with the vet zergs of v14's clad in all legendary armor with all the other advantages those levels bring.

I'm kind of torn on this subject. On one hand, I would love to be able to have 1 character that I can play in non-vet, rather than having to make a new one each time I level out the old. On the other, level 49's can get quite powerful with the right build and gear and could result in the same terribleness we see in the vet campaigns. That being said.. everyone would have the option of getting to 49 then "twinking" out a character for non-vet, so it would be fair in that respect. If it were up to me I would allow a pause XP option

If there was an exp pause option I would expect it to cut all exp gains, including to skill lines and skill morphing. If that were the case then that level 49 would be in a very awkward place where they were stuck with whatever they gained on their way leveling. And with how they changed battle leveling a level 49 will have very similar stats to a level 10, and since so many item set effects don't apply to battle leveling (regen, armor buffs, max attribute) there is little advantage to being level 49 over 10 save for number of skills, passives, and some 5 piece armor sets that are higher level.

I would still much rather fight a lot of level 49's that are all battle leveled rather than a zerg of legendary clad v14's.

Smeag

Valencer wrote: »

Not being able to halt your XP at lvl 49 is the whole reason Blackwater Blade is the way it is. A lvl 49 who has endless time to max out his skills and passives has a significant advantage over a new lvl 10. Eventually forcing them out disincentives any attempt at min-maxing and prevents a meta from settling in and makes BWB the perfect place for players new to PvP to learn the ropes.

If you like Blackwater Blade the way it is, don't ask for a pause XP option! That's the worst change they could possibly make. I know it makes me a little sad when I have to reroll a new character for BWB, but it's for the best.

I guess when you put it like that it sounds like a terrible idea, but I really don't think it would be that bad.

It's not really a huge benefit to be a higher level anymore. I say "anymore" because previously, you could turn off battle leveling and get boosted stats from about lvl 40+. With the new "battle level" giving VR12 stats, it is no longer beneficial to turn it off, even at lvl 49 with completely maxed gear (I've tested this). This means everyone has pretty much the same stats from 10-49.

All you're really getting is extra skills and passives which, while making a difference, aren't a free ticket to demolishing everything in your path.

bellanca6561n

Valencer wrote: »

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

Oh how I agree....and oh how I howled for an XP disabler too. I'm frequently misguided

There's a parallel thread of love for this campaign as well....

Joy_Division

Smeag wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Not being able to halt your XP at lvl 49 is the whole reason Blackwater Blade is the way it is. A lvl 49 who has endless time to max out his skills and passives has a significant advantage over a new lvl 10. Eventually forcing them out disincentives any attempt at min-maxing and prevents a meta from settling in and makes BWB the perfect place for players new to PvP to learn the ropes.

If you like Blackwater Blade the way it is, don't ask for a pause XP option! That's the worst change they could possibly make. I know it makes me a little sad when I have to reroll a new character for BWB, but it's for the best.

I guess when you put it like that it sounds like a terrible idea, but I really don't think it would be that bad.

It's not really a huge benefit to be a higher level anymore. I say "anymore" because previously, you could turn off battle leveling and get boosted stats from about lvl 40+. With the new "battle level" giving VR12 stats, it is no longer beneficial to turn it off, even at lvl 49 with completely maxed gear (I've tested this). This means everyone has pretty much the same stats from 10-49.

All you're really getting is extra skills and passives which, while making a difference, aren't a free ticket to demolishing everything in your path.

You are far underestimating the value of those extra skills and passives.

Valencer

Smeag wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Not being able to halt your XP at lvl 49 is the whole reason Blackwater Blade is the way it is. A lvl 49 who has endless time to max out his skills and passives has a significant advantage over a new lvl 10. Eventually forcing them out disincentives any attempt at min-maxing and prevents a meta from settling in and makes BWB the perfect place for players new to PvP to learn the ropes.

If you like Blackwater Blade the way it is, don't ask for a pause XP option! That's the worst change they could possibly make. I know it makes me a little sad when I have to reroll a new character for BWB, but it's for the best.

I guess when you put it like that it sounds like a terrible idea, but I really don't think it would be that bad.

It's not really a huge benefit to be a higher level anymore. I say "anymore" because previously, you could turn off battle leveling and get boosted stats from about lvl 40+. With the new "battle level" giving VR12 stats, it is no longer beneficial to turn it off, even at lvl 49 with completely maxed gear (I've tested this). This means everyone has pretty much the same stats from 10-49.

All you're really getting is extra skills and passives which, while making a difference, aren't a free ticket to demolishing everything in your path.

They're not a free ticket to becoming the destroyer of worlds, no, but you're very much underestimating how important some of the passives and skills are. My sorcerer is craving Healing Ward, Bolt Escape and Conjured Ward right now. And I still remember how much harder it was for my Dragonknight to survive without Reflective Scales and maxed out Battle Roar.

It's fine right now, because you basically can't hold onto these skills forever, but when it becomes possible to get to the top of the food chain and stay there, oh boy... It will change Blackwater Blade in a fundamental way as soon as people catch on.

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Oh how I agree....and oh how I howled for an XP disabler too. I'm frequently misguided

There's a parallel thread of love for this campaign as well....

I know the feeling.

This campaign deserves the love!

heystreethawk

Any organized AD guilds run BWB on the reg? I was in a pug this morn who didn't want to storm a breach on account of a lonesome oil pot; they didn't believe me or pay attention when I ran up and down the stairs twice without even dying a little.

Only so much unheeded advice you can give before you become the jerk :[ I didn't want to yell TRUST ME YO I AM VET IN DISGUISE b/c I feel like that's a D-move

audrand9771_ESO

Add a Rank cap that kicks you and XP Off at 49 would be fine

Rylana

No XP caps. BB should never be viewed as a grounds to level up and be the top dog vs the newbies.

Once you graduate, you leave like everyone else.

You can always delete the toon and start over, I have several times.

Cody

Valencer wrote: »

A pause XP option would turn BWB into lvl 49 paradise Let's not!

Very fun campaign though, yes.

why do people constantly treat level 49s as VR14s?? Lvl 49s can be killed quite easily! they have BARELY the stats of a battle leveled level 10. I've seen plenty of lvl 49s get beaten by lvl 20s and 30s!

dang milk drinkers... afraid of level 49ers are you?

Well then I guess you need to come join me next time im on BB and let me show you how to kill them!:D

Cody

Rylana wrote: »

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

well said Rylana. well said.

Zhoyzu

Rylana wrote: »

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

thats not entirely true. 70% of those players with a stam spec are wrecking blow spam. if thats not a meta maybe my definition is off. FotM build at the very least.


On another note, the potato is fierce the, potatoes have fermented for so long its now a vodka flood. The "tactics" involved are extremely primitive and terribly thought out to the point of there being none. "lets take a resource so AD/DC/EP knows we're coming to take their keep, so we can accomplish nothing" oh this one makes me irate "lets siege from that really terrible angle so that our siege attempt is sure to fail (mostly an EP issue)"

They refuse to learn and adapt and wonder why X/Y/Z happened when you explicitly told them it would if they followed through with plans A/B/C.

Its a great campaign for AP farming. The farm is so good i keep calling AD AP by accident. i mean thats all they are at this point so its not entirely incorrect.

Bouvin

Smeag wrote: »

Just this ^ best pvp ever! Please don't ever change my dear BB

Now where's that pause XP option..

Roll an alt

Play them from 10-49 BB only.

Now that'd be a feat.

Bouvin

Zhoyzu wrote: »

thats not entirely true. 70% of those players with a stam spec are wrecking blow spam. if thats not a meta maybe my definition is off. FotM build at the very least.

I'd say 70% of "melee" stam builds.

It seems like it's pretty split between WB and Snipe.

Personally, I'm running 2H/Bow and not using either WB or Snipe... and it's actually pretty fun 1vXing WB spammers... although I had 2 catch me off guard last night and completely roast me before I could react hahah

Rylana

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Eight months in all three factions have I played blackwater

IMO the best campaign they ever came out with. You actually need to be a good player to excel, and even if youre not, you can still contribute.

Builds totally dont matter, the metagaming doesnt exist, you actually have to know your class strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your opponent. No i-win specs and setups, no garbage.

Teamwork is absolutely required for objectives, but even a lone wolf 1v1 type player can find more than enough of their fair share of fights out there.

Its sort of like back at launch. When the game didnt lag. When zergblobs of 100 spamming aoe didnt exist. Before Valkyn Skoria meteor showers were a thing

thats not entirely true. 70% of those players with a stam spec are wrecking blow spam. if thats not a meta maybe my definition is off. FotM build at the very least.


On another note, the potato is fierce the, potatoes have fermented for so long its now a vodka flood. The "tactics" involved are extremely primitive and terribly thought out to the point of there being none. "lets take a resource so AD/DC/EP knows we're coming to take their keep, so we can accomplish nothing" oh this one makes me irate "lets siege from that really terrible angle so that our siege attempt is sure to fail (mostly an EP issue)"

They refuse to learn and adapt and wonder why X/Y/Z happened when you explicitly told them it would if they followed through with plans A/B/C.

Its a great campaign for AP farming. The farm is so good i keep calling AD AP by accident. i mean thats all they are at this point so its not entirely incorrect.

Its a lot of 2hand spammers doing it badly. They dont realize a good 2 hander spec needs high weapon power to be a threat, since youre capped at much lower levels of weapon power in Blackwater, it doesnt matter how many are trying to be wrecking blow heroes, they completely suck anyway. My old school magicka block cast DK build (from back in like 1.4, i never changed it on my DC toon) runs wild over them because my sustain and AOE just trumps them.

But thats not why I replied. Your second point.... after todays dethrone of Trip at roebeck... and the colossal herding it took to even get it done (not to mention a massive assist from EP) while half the DC pop was insistent on taking chalman and brindle.... i see what you mean. The quality of players has definitely taken a nosedive since 2.0 came out.

But its par for the course, its the lowbie campaign, they will learn. Its still fun to feel like a pseudo emperor though, running around as if you are one just because youre experienced. God forbid the vets that play on blackwater (meaning those of us that have played all the way through) ever get emp.



On a sidenote, props to the AD emp group (as late as it was to the party) shutting down my push to dethrone at the last second on the upper ring of Roebeck. You had us beat, but red saved it.

Woman

Ya... I totally agree. I've needed to take a little break because of the B2P change. Running groups during prime time can be really stressful... especially with all the old players coming back expecting old tactics and strats to work and not open to new advice because of their egos.

I'm worried that BWB might change though... It's starting to feel more and more like a vet campaign. I came here to avoid farming and play the campaign like it was played in the Betas. Goal: Win the Campaign. Hopefully the new people will keep that going.

kijima

I think the idea is still to win the campaign, and there are plenty of new people coming to Cyrodiil with winning the campaign is their goal.

You do find yourself bumping into builds that are seriously OP compared to the majority of players on the non vet server.

Met a stamina Bow/2 hand NB last night that was wrecking people, took about 5 or more to take him down, damn good player and DC are lucky to have him, and another Stamina 2 handed DK for EP that was 1vX build. Again, OP compared to the majority of builds.

Plenty of decent builds out there that are good, but can still be killed easily enough. Then there is the odd one or two, like the above that don't 'feel' anything like a non vet.

Cody

kijima wrote: »

I think the idea is still to win the campaign, and there are plenty of new people coming to Cyrodiil with winning the campaign is their goal.

You do find yourself bumping into builds that are seriously OP compared to the majority of players on the non vet server.

Met a stamina Bow/2 hand NB last night that was wrecking people, took about 5 or more to take him down, damn good player and DC are lucky to have him, and another Stamina 2 handed DK for EP that was 1vX build. Again, OP compared to the majority of builds.

Plenty of decent builds out there that are good, but can still be killed easily enough. Then there is the odd one or two, like the above that don't 'feel' anything like a non vet.

was that 2H DK me?:)

kijima

If it's errects the spine of death, then no. I'm not talking about you.

Cody

dang.

Rylana

all of my keks on the end of BB at maintenance kickout. Five or so blues camping roebeck front door, and the yellows just a scurrrryin around

But in all seriousness, i had some of the best small scale 1v1, 1vX, 2v3, etc tonight ive had in a long time. (shoutout to Apocalypse and your two cohorts if you read this, that fight at Ash farm was hilarious)

I doubt ill still be there when I wake up, but ended the day at number 1 for DC for the seventh time. =D

This campaign is best campaign, has been for a long time. Come play it people.

Paradox

Half of EP Blackwater has me on ignore, but it's still the best campaign in my opinion. While some of the group leaders on there tend to make some horrible horrible mistakes, the general chaos and unorganized nature of my beloved Blackwater just makes it so loveable.

One good player can make a huge difference in zerg sieges, and it's great fun... Unfortunately, there are a lot of players coming from the VET servers (and certain guilds) farming emperor and AP in our beloved little nub server. It's annoying and it messes with the usual NON-VET chaos and purity of people just trying to win and have fun.

kijima

Killing terrabad DC on BWB tonight was delicious, as was the teabagging.