Sorcerer Stam build suggestions

orangeman57ub17_ESO

The other 3 classes have fantastic passives that increase stamina based DPS, but sorcs sadly lack anything in that manor. The only boon they really get is the ability to use a major weapon damage buff with surge, but most classes can achieve this by use of potions. Here are my ideas for some passives to help.

Passives:

exploitation - add minor weapon damage buff

rebate - add restore stamina/health when pet dies

Expert mage - add 2% weapon damage for each sorc skill slotted

Skills also suffer from gaining decent DPS increases. We get the morph of bound armor that increases our heavy attack damage and max stam. Its useful but having too many passive abilities on my bar limits my dps and the boost to my max stam (almost 30k in some cases with it on) is small dps gain. If you take away bound armor, the Daedric Summoning tree is basically useless.

skills:

encase morph - Stamina morph, deal x damage and immobilize enemies for x seconds. affected enemies get minor armor debuff while affected.

Empowered ward: scales off of max health instead of max magicka/spell damage. 30%?

Bound armor: Both morphs. Make the armor transparent so that the armor is a glowing outline on top of your curent armor. not a dps gain here, but the armor looks pretty aweful in terms of style and eliminates the dye system and costumes from the crown store.

Negate morphs: Also grant minor armor debuff for suppression field

Clannfear and twilight scale off stamina and magicka, whichever is highest

The sorc has been my favorite character to play as since beta. I liked turning my rogue like sorc into a lightning quick bow user and made it viable for every endgame addition to the game (minus sanctum, havnt been). Since 1.6 ive noticed that other ranged characters and even bow users of a different class, have been pulling much more dps than i could ever achieve. Im not giving up on my playstyle because it still works pretty well, but I would like to be more competetive in the endgame scene.

If anyone has any opinions on my suggestions, I would very much like to hear them. Even an uneducated negative remark will keep this thread alive :P

Nestor

I personally don't understand a Stamina based Caster. I have tried, I end up running out of stamina doing things that are not fighting, and my magic pool is weak so the spells don't do anything for me, so why have them? I speced her back into magic, replaced my glyphs and called it a 12,000 gold experiment in doing something I should not have done in the first place.

I wish you the best in trying to make this work, but I feel you are going against type.

Khivas_Carrick

Nestor wrote: »

I personally don't understand a Stamina based Caster. I have tried, I end up running out of stamina doing things that are not fighting, and my magic pool is weak so the spells don't do anything for me, so why have them? I speced her back into magic, replaced my glyphs and called it a 12,000 gold experiment in doing something I should not have done in the first place.

I wish you the best in trying to make this work, but I feel you are going against type.

Actually they're not going against type, since by your logic a Dragonknight should only be a tank and my Templar should only be a healer.

The OP here summons very viable complaints, worries, and suggestions about his or her class and should be taken seriously.

Khivas_Carrick

Also I believe you may have done it wrong if your mentality was a "Stamina Based Caster", as when using stamina you are not a caster.

Nestor

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Actually they're not going against type, since by your logic a Dragonknight should only be a tank and my Templar should only be a healer.

My thoughts are about resources used for the class abilities. Where did I say Tanking or anything else? What you do with your character is your Role in combat. Class is just the collection of skills you use to try to fulfill that role.

Nestor

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also I believe you may have done it wrong if your mentality was a "Stamina Based Caster", as when using stamina you are not a caster.

Silly me for thinking a Sorcerer would be better served by being Magic Focused.

orangeman57ub17_ESO

I dont see why everyone thinks a class has to be just 1 specific thing. Look at all the other classes:

nightblade:
Rogue style stamina builds - Works
Blood mage magicka builds - works
Even played with a few good sap tanks

dragonknights:
Fire mages - works very well
Warriors of the flame builds using stamina - works great

Templars:
These guys are all over the place with healers, tanks, and DPS (Both stamina and magicka) that work very well.

Sorcs - the only competitive style is a staff and stick mage. Why cant there be a spell blade warrior? A stamina weapon user who summons "minions" to fight and casts spells to protect and buff damage.

@Nestor, Silly me for thinking sorcs would only be considered Magic Focused.

byrom101b16_ESO

And here we go again...

... those suggesting Sorcerers should have all kinds of stamina skills taken 'seriously' and those saying Sorcerers should use Sorcery, with the magicka that Sorcery has always used in every incarnation of TES are ridiculed.

I have already stated many times that stamina is pointless for the class and that magicka should be the resource used by 'SPELLblades' to tank and weapon dps.

But the unimaginative think that this is somehow 'wrong' or can't be imagined, and they make the basic mistake of equating resource with role.

The majority of Sorcerer players play them because they want to use magicka and spells...

... the clue is in the name in case you missed it.

Look it up... in a dictionary... in a previous version of TES (as the skill ofc, they are/were partially or completely classless games), and then tell me why if EVERY OTHER CLASS uses magicka abilities with weapons and can fulfil the role of 'Spellblade', why the Sorcerer should be forced too as well...

... and at the expense of getting more choice when the various useless magicka skill morphs should be getting changed into decent alternative choices, not into single-choice stamina morphs.

The idea that the Sorcerer should be made a hybrid class is not liked by the majority of Sorc players in both the trialling guilds I belong too, isn't required, and if it was implemented by appropriating magicka morphs, would rob the magicka Sorcs... that is to say - ALL current Sorcs atm... of any choices whatsoever...

... something that's been missing from the class by bad skill design since the start of the game.

Anyway Nestor, don't let the Stamina Meme Police (SMP) tell you playing a magicka Sorc. is a bad thing - they need to push that rubbish to get their corner case desires implemented. They are just noisy on the forums at the moment because they aren't getting what they want despite having three other classes to choose from to fulfil it.

Damn selfish if you ask me...

... in the meantime, the VAST majority of players playing their Sorcerers as spellcasters who use magicka (well WHO would have thought that was right eh!!??... lol) will continue to play and pay no regard to the few who want to hybridise the class into something undeserving of the name SORCERER.

Mark my words however, if Zenimax do what the SMP want, then the rest of the Sorc.players will be heard on these forums... at least those that stay with the game after being forced into a THIRD RESPECC & REGEAR due to the self-serving noisy minority complaints of PVP'ers and the SMP.

byrom101b16_ESO

In fact Zos should run a random survey of Sorcerer players off these forums and get a proper profile of who wants what, because they keep listening to the tiny % of noisy complainers here (here's looking at you PvP'ers) and messing up PvE with it.

There is not reason to believe they won't mess a fundamental class redesign like hybridising the Sorc, and they will miss the many people who chose the class because it was the only non-hybrid...

Every fantasy MMO in existence has loads of people who like playing 'Wizards', this MMO is no different and the SMP need to acknowledge that go back to the THREE other choices available to them...

... they are soooo hard done too, having 75% of the classes capable of being weapon based magicka/stamina hybrids, and the rest of us are just tremendously selfish asking for one dedicated caster class...

HOW DARE WE, EH!!??

Weng

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

...
Anyway Nestor, don't let the Stamina Meme Police (SMP) tell you playing a magicka Sorc. is a bad thing - they need to push that rubbish to get their corner case desires implemented. They are just noisy on the forums at the moment because they aren't getting what they want despite having three other classes to choose from to fulfil it.

Damn selfish if you ask me...

... in the meantime, the VAST majority of players playing their Sorcerers as spellcasters who use magicka (well WHO would have thought that was right eh!!??... lol) will continue to play and pay no regard to the few who want to hybridise the class into something undeserving of the name SORCERER.

Mark my words however, if Zenimax do what the SMP want, then the rest of the Sorc.players will be heard on these forums... at least those that stay with the game after being forced into a THIRD RESPECC & REGEAR due to the self-serving noisy minority complaints of PVP'ers and the SMP.

Is this an april's fool joke? There is no "SMP" at all.

You have the same right to play a magicka based sorc as other players may play a stamina based one.

orangeman57ub17_ESO

I love the fact that sorcs can be magicka based. Go magicka. Magicka to your hearts content. I dont see any harm to the magicka class sorcs if they leave the magicka buffs alone but help out the stamina sorc.

Im sure there are more people playing magicka based sorcs out there compared to stamina sorcs, but its not as small as you think. If you told a templar that all they could do was heal, and a DK all they could do was tank, fans would get vocal (and they have in the past). Stamina sorcs were in a good place in 1.5, but with the passive changes and Major/Minor changes, there isn't much for weapon based sorcs to work with.

If sorcs are meant to be an all magicka class, can we change all the other classes to fit their role as well? Lets replace templars abilities to just stuff that heals, and DKs only get tank buffs now. No one wants that to happen, its good to have variety. I dont want them to nerf anything to mage sorcs, but why is it so bad to get a little bit of love for the stam builds?

CP5

@byrom101b16_ESO , starting from the top of your post that began with "And here we go again" you say that its a mistake "equating resource with role." How many tanks do you see that don't invest in stamina? Or with the current meta, how many medium armor weapon using builds don't put points into stamina? How many magic casters don't put points into magicka? If the sorcerer class can ever be anything more than a magicka dps class the toolkit needs to cater to the needs or more than just magicka. It needs to be able to support builds that focus on health and stamina, not only on magicka dps but also stamina dps, tanking, and more utility. Restricting the class to one role because of their name is not the best idea.

Going off of that you then say to look into the dictionary, and previous elder scrolls games for the definition of the sorcerer class. Lets see their definitions:

[list[
[*]Arena: Sorcerers are a strange breed of magic users. They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally. This does not make them any less powerful; in fact, Sorcerers have the potential to be the most powerful of all the Mage classes. This is because of the unique way in which they manipulate magic. Sorcerers are in essence magical batteries. They absorb spell points from spells that are targeted at them. Sorcerers may absorb up to triple their Intelligence in spell points. If a spell is absorbed, the Sorcerer takes no damage, but instead adds the spell's total power points, divided by the Sorcerer's level, to his/her spell points. These points are permanent until used. If the Sorcerer fails to absorb a directed spell, they take the normal effects, whatever they may be. The chance a Sorcerer will absorb the spell is equal to the sum of his Intelligence and Willpower divided by two. Sorcerers do not regenerate spell points and they do not absorb points from their own spells. If a Sorcerer has absorbed spell points to his/her maximum, he/she will be unable to absorb more spells, and will take damage from spells just as any other character. Regardless of these restrictions, they have the ability to cast more powerful spells because when they are fully charged, they have more spell points than any other Mage class. They can therefore cast more powerful spells at lower levels, provided that the spell is in their spellbook.
Weapons: Any
Armor: Leather or chain only
[*]Daggerfall: Sorcerers are quite adept at the manipulation of magic, although they do not generate their own magical energy. Rather, they absorb the energy of spells cast at them, and use this energy to power their own spells.
[*]Morrowind: Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.
*Morrowinds descriptions not as helpful, here are their skills
Major: Enchanting, Conjuration, Mysticism, Destruction, Alteration
Minor: Illusion, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Marksman, Shortblade
[*]Oblivion: Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.
Major Attributes: Endurance, Intelligence
Skills: Alchemy, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Heavy Armor, Mysticism, Restoration

In the past this class focused on being durable sponges of power. Heavy and Medium armor was what they used, and to survive long enough to absorb this energy they needed to be durable.

Now I agree, making some skills have stamina morphs gives the first impression that it restricts its use to a build. Sometimes there are builds that to heavily focus on one resource and getting a skill that uses the other is just more beneficial. But in the current state of the game in order to be very effective you need to stack either magicka or stamina, and if you say that having all sorcerer skills be magicka based, then as a class the sorcerer will be restricted purely to magicka dps, something no other class is limited by.

And now for a funny story. After beta ended and I waited for the official launch of the game I looked over at ESO Head's skill calculator to see which class I would pick for my main. I did this knowing full well that I would be a medium armored bow using character with the idea at keeping my distance and kiting my enemies.

I looked at the DK and thought, nice for it the enemies get near me and great survivability. I looked at the templar and thought, nice utility and it would be cool to be able to heal others while using the bow. Then I looked at nightblades, the class I played in beta and thought, they seem to be more melee focused, but they have some interesting things that could help me a lot. Then I looked at the sorcerer class.

Storm calling : Boundless storm for mobility and armor, Surge for power and survivability, Bolt Escape for powerful mobility, and even a 28m ranged execute.
Dark Magic : encase for a nice aoe root an snare, rune prison for limiting the number of enemies I would fight at once, mines, why wouldn't I want a field of mines to kite my enemies through?
Deadric Summoning : Bound armor for more durability mostly, CLANNFEAR, because who wouldn't want this pet running off and keeping your enemies at bay?

I chose the sorcerer class because of what it as a toolkit provided. A majority of the skills I would frequently use and my irrational love of clannfear's drove me to pick it. Just because the sorcerer is the only class that at character select is clad in robes doesn't mean that they should be restricted in such a way. It seems selfish to think they should.

the Clannfear

Khivas_Carrick

I'm just going to not quote every single person in here who said that a Sorc should be magicka based because that's the majority's choosing and tell them they're wrong.

I'm just going to make a simple flat out post suggesting such, and clarifying what I said so people who seemingly can't fully comprehend what I wrote don't try to twist it into something else.


I AM saying very strongly that Sorcerers should be able to use Magicka as DPS and be spell casters.

I AM saying, aso very strongly, that Sorcerers should be able to use Stamina to DPS and be melee warriors.

I am NOT saying that one side should be changed drastically to fit the other.

I am NOT saying that Sorcs shouldn't have a Magicka or Stamina side.

I AM saying that, like the other 3 wonderful classes, they SHOULD possess the CHOICE to go Stamina or Magicka.

If you think otherwise, or can't seem to figure that's what I mean, you are what's wrong and are part of the problem. I would like to ask you that you take the time to look calmly at everyone and everything else and think strongly on the situation before commenting again.

The reason I ask this is because it's simply unfair that Sorcerers get shafted so badly for Stamina options when a Templar (healing focused) can Stamina DPS and Magicka DPS, a Nightblade (stealth focused) can somehow Heal almost as good if not equally so as a Templar, in addition to Stamina and Magicka DPS, and a Dragonknight (tank focused) can Melee and Magicka or Stamina DPS, and all three can heal perfectly fine, but it's the Sorcerer who get's shafted in PvE and pgeonholed in PvP, well,

There's a problem, and it needs to be fixed.

Sorry if this ruins your plans, but it's only fair, and fairness is what we want at the end of the day, even if it means a few toes get stepped on.


EDIT* I missed something, @byrom101b16_ESO , you said people picked the class because it was the only non hybrid available, but I hate to burst your bubble, but no class fits that in this game, since Sorcerers can still tank somewhat decently (although not as good as the other classes) and same goes for their healing (especially in trials does it show they are not as good), but I will remind you that in this game your class does not determine if you will be a Hybrid or not, it is your choices in skills, armor, and weapons.

CP5

@Khivas_Carrick, there aren't enough agree's for that post.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also I believe you may have done it wrong if your mentality was a "Stamina Based Caster", as when using stamina you are not a caster.

Silly me for thinking a Sorcerer would be better served by being Magic Focused.

How silly for any of us to think that other class can be magic based then?

This is the beauty of eso...
Design a character how you want it to be, sandbox character development to an extent.

The traditional biases of fantasy based characters do not apply to this game.

In fact, the original fantasy game aka dungeons and dragons, did and does in fact blend melee with casting.
Or have you not heard of the fighter/magic user?

Have you not heard of the famed elven bladesingers?. Have you never heard of the spellswords, the chaos driven warlocks, or the songwaevers?

shame on all who feel you cannot cast spells and be martially proficient.

Apologies upfront to zos though, as 2 mmos right now have a more viable system to build the wizard that wields a sword better... and that is rift and archeage.

The biggest problem with melee sorcs in 1.6 is that zos does a few things wrong

1. Having to keep summons on both skill bars toggled on.

Ok... so i somewhat understand why. However, the pets are squishy and weak, especially for pvp.
The should be fire and forget.

2. Armor summons...

Zos has made these very underwhelming. 5% resource and very minor defense benefits? Pass on this.

If zos made pets really strong ie damage that actually bothered a player, then fine. But as it stands now, how many sorcs pvp with pets?

3. More morphs

Zos can model the melee sorc to be magika based.

Have a conjured weapon line that does lightning based damage and uses spellpower and spell damage as its coefficients.

Make daedric armor worthwhile. Let it grant major wards and give 10% resource regen or added pool.

Make the melee morphs of pets not do damage. Instead let the pets offer snares and roots on one while the other one restores resources.

And finally....
If you have any of those morphs toggled on you cannot access crystal shard, liquid lighting, or mage execute.

Then we create a true melee type who doesnt have access to his other sides strong castables. Its a way to balance it out.

Sylveria_Relden

So do sorcs not having any Stamina-based morphs available at current? (trying to understand here)

I agree that they should be able to go either way. I've already seen quite a few 2H and other specced-weapon Sorcs in game, as well as Heavy Armor wearing, etc.

I suppose I'm trying to understand where the current disparity lies- because if all you need to do is focus on a different weapon line, armor line, etc., wouldn't you already be considered "different" from a strictly "magicka-based" caster and therefore be "stamina-based"?

Each class has the ability to spec into whatever weapons or armor you want to use- and the classes use this for balance (because they all have the same choices to pick from) the only differences would be purely class-line skills, correct? That said, I've seen a few of the other classes where I've scratched my head wondering why the base skills use Magicka if it's a perceived "melee class", but ignored it because the reasons are purely speculative and subjective.

Jar_Ek

@Sylveria_Relden The original design was all class skills were magicka based, but with the changes in 2.0 this had to change. The new buff system, the introduction of the champion system, and the removal of hard caps however meant that the software caps had to go and hence the optimal builds were those that stacked one resource - stamina or magicka. This change of the meta meant that weapon builds found many of their class skills massively underwhelming and bought in the stamina morphs for class skills. However the implementation of this was not balanced across classes, with the majority of stamina morphs being provided to melee orientated abilities. Thus sorcerers only got 2 stamina morphs - and this is what the debate hinges on.

Now as to the meat of the debate, both the OP and @byrom101b16_ESO are correct in that magicka sorcerers should not have to significantly compromise their build options for stamina sorcerers, but that options should exist for stamina sorcerers. I do not agree with byrom that all sorcerers should be magicka regardless without any stamina options, as this in my opinion completely contrary to the design philosophy that has been stated and demonstrated in the other classes.

My suggestion to @zos is to have a serious look at the skill system in the light of the current meta and to consider adding a 3rd set of morphs to class skills and maybe morphs to class passives. For sorcerers the scaling of pets (should be stamina or magicka based), and the flexibility of toggles also need looking at (for all builds).

byrom101b16_ESO

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Sylveria_Relden The original design was all class skills were magicka based, but with the changes in 2.0 this had to change. The new buff system, the introduction of the champion system, and the removal of hard caps however meant that the software caps had to go and hence the optimal builds were those that stacked one resource - stamina or magicka. This change of the meta meant that weapon builds found many of their class skills massively underwhelming and bought in the stamina morphs for class skills. However the implementation of this was not balanced across classes, with the majority of stamina morphs being provided to melee orientated abilities. Thus sorcerers only got 2 stamina morphs - and this is what the debate hinges on.

Now as to the meat of the debate, both the OP and @byrom101b16_ESO are correct in that magicka sorcerers should not have to significantly compromise their build options for stamina sorcerers, but that options should exist for stamina sorcerers. I do not agree with byrom that all sorcerers should be magicka regardless without any stamina options, as this in my opinion completely contrary to the design philosophy that has been stated and demonstrated in the other classes.

My suggestion to @zos is to have a serious look at the skill system in the light of the current meta and to consider adding a 3rd set of morphs to class skills and maybe morphs to class passives. For sorcerers the scaling of pets (should be stamina or magicka based), and the flexibility of toggles also need looking at (for all builds).

My objections to stamina for Sorcs rest entirely on magicka morphs being forced to change to stamina morphs.

If a third morph option is created, and the useless magicka morphs changed to something useful for the magicka skills they serve, or indeed if new discrete stamina skills are introduced, I don't have the slightest problem with it.

However, I haven't seen a single suggestion from any stamina Sorc. supporter for this option though, nor any indication from Zenimax that they would be this radical. They are only suggesting taking from magicka skills for the purposes of stamina builds with no regard for those who don't want their morph 'choices' reduced to 1.

I expect Zenimax to fudge it and further spoil the class just like they are advocating.

byrom101b16_ESO

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

EDIT* I missed something, @byrom101b16_ESO , you said people picked the class because it was the only non hybrid available, but I hate to burst your bubble, but no class fits that in this game, since Sorcerers can still tank somewhat decently (although not as good as the other classes) and same goes for their healing (especially in trials does it show they are not as good), but I will remind you that in this game your class does not determine if you will be a Hybrid or not, it is your choices in skills, armor, and weapons.

You have the made the classic mistake that the SMP have been making all this time.

That is to say - thinking of resource hybridisation as the same as role flexibility.

So you are right, you did miss something - the entire point I have made three or four times now...

You are correct in stating that many of the classes use both stamina and magicka. These are the hybrids. The Sorcerer isn't, and many people picked it because it is the dedicated 'spellcaster' of ESO.

The SMP want the class hybridised for magicka and stamina to give them a fourth choice of class that does this out of the four available.

I think they are being greedy. The Sorcerer should stay as designed, as a magicka using class (or more correctly, the 3 class skill lines should remain that way) and tanking, healing and weapon dps be facilitated by suitable magicka morphs to the already entirely predominant magicka skills.

THEN you get what you are incorrectly calling 'hybridisation' (which is in fact role flexibility and viability) as well as increased morph choice for this magicka class, increased synergy and hopefully, if Zenimax design it right, better utility.

The stamina morphs idea becomes functionally irrelevant to the class if my suggestions are followed, and Sorc. players will get to play any role they want without the majority of magicka using Sorc. players being forced to play in a way they don't want to, and having to go through the THIRD fundamental respecc and re-gearing in what is still a relatively new game.

Jar_Ek

@byrom101b16_ESO Well I play a stamina sorcerer main and I am advocating a 3rd morph option. In fact I am advocating afar more radical suggestion, that zos actually take a proper look at their skill philosophy and make passive morphs and 3 distinct morphs per class skill... the resource associated with these morphs would be dependent on the nature of the class and skill. One morph would always cover each resource though.

In addition, I would advocate them considering changing the base resource used for class skills on a by skill basis move further away from the now defunct class skill base being magicka based philosophy. However I would not expect this to impact sorcerers as heavily as some other classes.

Basically I think zos did not think through the changes associated with the introduction of the champion system and the removal of soft caps.

Erock25

@Sylveria_Relden Here is a list of what was added in 1.6 patch to help the various classes with their stamina specs....

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

I suggest everyone with any sense just ignore that Byrom guy. He has been spreading nonsense as it relates to the Sorc class every since 1.6 hit the PTS. I can't understand the effort he has put in to try and discredit the addition of a couple of stamina morphs in favor of completely rewriting the fundamental basis of the game to allow Sorcs to use magicka for melee weapon attacks.

CP5

Erock25 wrote: »

@Sylveria_Relden Here is a list of what was added in 1.6 patch to help the various classes with their stamina specs....

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

I suggest everyone with any sense just ignore that Byrom guy. He has been spreading nonsense as it relates to the Sorc class every since 1.6 hit the PTS. I can't understand the effort he has put in to try and discredit the addition of a couple of stamina morphs in favor of completely rewriting the fundamental basis of the game to allow Sorcs to use magicka for melee weapon attacks.

Despite this I feel like I should post my response that I gave in another thread here as well in hopes that something good comes of it.

@byrom101b16_ESO , starting from the top of your post that began with "And here we go again" you say that its a mistake "equating resource with role." How many tanks do you see that don't invest in stamina? Or with the current meta, how many medium armor weapon using builds don't put points into stamina? How many magic casters don't put points into magicka? If the sorcerer class can ever be anything more than a magicka dps class the toolkit needs to cater to the needs or more than just magicka. It needs to be able to support builds that focus on health and stamina, not only on magicka dps but also stamina dps, tanking, and more utility. Restricting the class to one role because of their name is not the best idea.

Going off of that you then say to look into the dictionary, and previous elder scrolls games for the definition of the sorcerer class. Lets see their definitions:

• Arena: Sorcerers are a strange breed of magic users. They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally. This does not make them any less powerful; in fact, Sorcerers have the potential to be the most powerful of all the Mage classes. This is because of the unique way in which they manipulate magic. Sorcerers are in essence magical batteries. They absorb spell points from spells that are targeted at them. Sorcerers may absorb up to triple their Intelligence in spell points. If a spell is absorbed, the Sorcerer takes no damage, but instead adds the spell's total power points, divided by the Sorcerer's level, to his/her spell points. These points are permanent until used. If the Sorcerer fails to absorb a directed spell, they take the normal effects, whatever they may be. The chance a Sorcerer will absorb the spell is equal to the sum of his Intelligence and Willpower divided by two. Sorcerers do not regenerate spell points and they do not absorb points from their own spells. If a Sorcerer has absorbed spell points to his/her maximum, he/she will be unable to absorb more spells, and will take damage from spells just as any other character. Regardless of these restrictions, they have the ability to cast more powerful spells because when they are fully charged, they have more spell points than any other Mage class. They can therefore cast more powerful spells at lower levels, provided that the spell is in their spellbook.
  Weapons: Any
  Armor: Leather or chain only
• Daggerfall: Sorcerers are quite adept at the manipulation of magic, although they do not generate their own magical energy. Rather, they absorb the energy of spells cast at them, and use this energy to power their own spells.
• Morrowind: Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.
  *Morrowinds descriptions not as helpful, here are their skills
  Major: Enchanting, Conjuration, Mysticism, Destruction, Alteration
  Minor: Illusion, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Marksman, Shortblade
• Oblivion: Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.
  Major Attributes: Endurance, Intelligence
  Skills: Alchemy, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Heavy Armor, Mysticism, Restoration

In the past this class focused on being durable sponges of power. Heavy and Medium armor was what they used, and to survive long enough to absorb this energy they needed to be durable.

Now I agree, making some skills have stamina morphs gives the first impression that it restricts its use to a build. Sometimes there are builds that to heavily focus on one resource and getting a skill that uses the other is just more beneficial. But in the current state of the game in order to be very effective you need to stack either magicka or stamina, and if you say that having all sorcerer skills be magicka based, then as a class the sorcerer will be restricted purely to magicka dps, something no other class is limited by.

And now for a funny story. After beta ended and I waited for the official launch of the game I looked over at ESO Head's skill calculator to see which class I would pick for my main. I did this knowing full well that I would be a medium armored bow using character with the idea at keeping my distance and kiting my enemies.

I looked at the DK and thought, nice for it the enemies get near me and great survivability. I looked at the templar and thought, nice utility and it would be cool to be able to heal others while using the bow. Then I looked at nightblades, the class I played in beta and thought, they seem to be more melee focused, but they have some interesting things that could help me a lot. Then I looked at the sorcerer class.

Storm calling : Boundless storm for mobility and armor, Surge for power and survivability, Bolt Escape for powerful mobility, and even a 28m ranged execute.
Dark Magic : encase for a nice aoe root an snare, rune prison for limiting the number of enemies I would fight at once, mines, why wouldn't I want a field of mines to kite my enemies through?
Deadric Summoning : Bound armor for more durability mostly, CLANNFEAR, because who wouldn't want this pet running off and keeping your enemies at bay?

I chose the sorcerer class because of what it as a toolkit provided. A majority of the skills I would frequently use and my irrational love of clannfear's drove me to pick it. Just because the sorcerer is the only class that at character select is clad in robes doesn't mean that they should be restricted in such a way. It seems selfish to think they should.

the Clannfear

orangeman57ub17_ESO

Glad to see my post has a few people that agree and disagree. I think from what I have read is: giving some love to stamina sorcs without hurting magicka specs is a win/win. Except for that guy who wants sorcs to be magica 4 ever.

I would like to see the passives that increase spell power to also increase weapon damage. Every class gets a passive that boosts weapon dps except the sorc. It's a place to start

byrom101b16_ESO

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@byrom101b16_ESO Well I play a stamina sorcerer main and I am advocating a 3rd morph option. In fact I am advocating afar more radical suggestion, that zos actually take a proper look at their skill philosophy and make passive morphs and 3 distinct morphs per class skill... the resource associated with these morphs would be dependent on the nature of the class and skill. One morph would always cover each resource though.

In addition, I would advocate them considering changing the base resource used for class skills on a by skill basis move further away from the now defunct class skill base being magicka based philosophy. However I would not expect this to impact sorcerers as heavily as some other classes.

Basically I think zos did not think through the changes associated with the introduction of the champion system and the removal of soft caps.

This is a fine idea as I have already indicated.

But stealing bad magicka skill morphs instead of improving them is out of order.

3 distinct morphs per skill is the way to go, and in fact I'd much rather see this than the unbalanced mess Zenimax are likely to make of spellcrafting.

WillhelmBlack

You can't take all the morph options away from the traditional Sorcerers. They still need choices on which direction they wanna take their build. It is primarily a magic based class after all.

My stealthy Imperial stam Sorc is really fun to play. Only level 24 and he will be used mainly for PvP where having the highest DPS doesn't matter. He uses Sorc Skills for buffs, CC and speed and weapon skills for damage. Don't listen to the naysayers, my build is fast and deadly killing Vets on his own sometimes.

Nights Silence armour set will be your best friend.

Erock25

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

You can't take all the morph options away from the traditional Sorcerers. They still need choices on which direction they wanna take their build. It is primarily a magic based class after all.

My stealthy Imperial stam Sorc is really fun to play. Only level 24 and he will be used mainly for PvP where having the highest DPS doesn't matter. He uses Sorc Skills for buffs, CC and speed and weapon skills for damage. Don't listen to the naysayers, my build is fast and deadly killing Vets on his own sometimes.

Nights Silence armour set will be your best friend.

Where do you see ALL the morph options going away in this post? Dude suggests one version of Encase and Empowered Ward to become more stamina friendly. Not a big deal.

CP5

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

You can't take all the morph options away from the traditional Sorcerers. They still need choices on which direction they wanna take their build. It is primarily a magic based class after all.

My stealthy Imperial stam Sorc is really fun to play. Only level 24 and he will be used mainly for PvP where having the highest DPS doesn't matter. He uses Sorc Skills for buffs, CC and speed and weapon skills for damage. Don't listen to the naysayers, my build is fast and deadly killing Vets on his own sometimes.

Nights Silence armour set will be your best friend.

In the current meta, once you level to vet and no longer are battle leveled you will take a heavy hit to your hybrid build. As it is you either stack stamina or magicka, and once the battle leveled buffs are gone you'll likely notice that keeping your magicka based skills up will take a significant amount of your magicka. My main sorcerer is built a similar way, using the class for utility, but if you want to get decent damage out of your stamina skills you won't be able to maintain your magicka for utility.

eventide03b14a_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

And here we go again...

... those suggesting Sorcerers should have all kinds of stamina skills taken 'seriously' and those saying Sorcerers should use Sorcery, with the magicka that Sorcery has always used in every incarnation of TES are ridiculed.

I have already stated many times that stamina is pointless for the class and that magicka should be the resource used by 'SPELLblades' to tank and weapon dps.

But the unimaginative think that this is somehow 'wrong' or can't be imagined, and they make the basic mistake of equating resource with role.

The majority of Sorcerer players play them because they want to use magicka and spells...

... the clue is in the name in case you missed it.

Look it up... in a dictionary... in a previous version of TES (as the skill ofc, they are/were partially or completely classless games), and then tell me why if EVERY OTHER CLASS uses magicka abilities with weapons and can fulfil the role of 'Spellblade', why the Sorcerer should be forced too as well...

... and at the expense of getting more choice when the various useless magicka skill morphs should be getting changed into decent alternative choices, not into single-choice stamina morphs.

The idea that the Sorcerer should be made a hybrid class is not liked by the majority of Sorc players in both the trialling guilds I belong too, isn't required, and if it was implemented by appropriating magicka morphs, would rob the magicka Sorcs... that is to say - ALL current Sorcs atm... of any choices whatsoever...

... something that's been missing from the class by bad skill design since the start of the game.

Anyway Nestor, don't let the Stamina Meme Police (SMP) tell you playing a magicka Sorc. is a bad thing - they need to push that rubbish to get their corner case desires implemented. They are just noisy on the forums at the moment because they aren't getting what they want despite having three other classes to choose from to fulfil it.

Damn selfish if you ask me...

... in the meantime, the VAST majority of players playing their Sorcerers as spellcasters who use magicka (well WHO would have thought that was right eh!!??... lol) will continue to play and pay no regard to the few who want to hybridise the class into something undeserving of the name SORCERER.

Mark my words however, if Zenimax do what the SMP want, then the rest of the Sorc.players will be heard on these forums... at least those that stay with the game after being forced into a THIRD RESPECC & REGEAR due to the self-serving noisy minority complaints of PVP'ers and the SMP.

I think the problem is that we are afraid they are going to break the magicka based sorcerers in the process. We have already been hit really hard with the nerf bat so I think many of us are just cautious.

WillhelmBlack

CP5 wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

You can't take all the morph options away from the traditional Sorcerers. They still need choices on which direction they wanna take their build. It is primarily a magic based class after all.

My stealthy Imperial stam Sorc is really fun to play. Only level 24 and he will be used mainly for PvP where having the highest DPS doesn't matter. He uses Sorc Skills for buffs, CC and speed and weapon skills for damage. Don't listen to the naysayers, my build is fast and deadly killing Vets on his own sometimes.

Nights Silence armour set will be your best friend.

In the current meta, once you level to vet and no longer are battle leveled you will take a heavy hit to your hybrid build. As it is you either stack stamina or magicka, and once the battle leveled buffs are gone you'll likely notice that keeping your magicka based skills up will take a significant amount of your magicka. My main sorcerer is built a similar way, using the class for utility, but if you want to get decent damage out of your stamina skills you won't be able to maintain your magicka for utility.

All my points are in stam, atm I never run out of Magic. I need skills like Encase to stay magic so it doesn't use the precious stamina.

Trewr

orangeman57ub17_ESO wrote: »

Passives:

exploitation - add minor weapon damage buff

rebate - add restore stamina/health when pet dies

Expert mage - add 2% weapon damage for each sorc skill slotted

Skills also suffer from gaining decent DPS increases. We get the morph of bound armor that increases our heavy attack damage and max stam. Its useful but having too many passive abilities on my bar limits my dps and the boost to my max stam (almost 30k in some cases with it on) is small dps gain. If you take away bound armor, the Daedric Summoning tree is basically useless.

skills:

encase morph - Stamina morph, deal x damage and immobilize enemies for x seconds. affected enemies get minor armor debuff while affected.

Empowered ward: scales off of max health instead of max magicka/spell damage. 30%?

Bound armor: Both morphs. Make the armor transparent so that the armor is a glowing outline on top of your curent armor. not a dps gain here, but the armor looks pretty aweful in terms of style and eliminates the dye system and costumes from the crown store.

Negate morphs: Also grant minor armor debuff for suppression field

Clannfear and twilight scale off stamina and magicka, whichever is highest

These are some great suggestions for where we are now. Especially "duh" quality of life improvements like being able to see your gear when Bound Armor is up. Regardless of whether or not you think Sorc should have a viable stam path like all other classes we need these kinds of improvements.

Zlater

You know I'm playing a Magicka based Sorc tank since update 1.6, because my stam DPS build was made obsolete. I would say to anyone playing a stamina based sorcerer to try something else. But can I be completely honest? Out of all of the dungeons I've run, the PvP and so on. If you want to play a Sorcerer, for endgame magicka based DPS aswell... I'm sorry @byrom101b16_ESO I would recommend something else as your first choice. Not that they aren't awesome though, For example:

A Templar makes a better both, Magicka and Stamina DPS, healer and possibly even tank than a Sorc. So if you want to be a so called 'Sorcerer', try a Templar first. That's just the same way as I would prefer to not do a VR dungeon with a DK tank now, not that they cant; but they are inferior to other classes (thats right all you 1.5ers that still cling to your old build - I said it).

Classes change and we need to adjust with it, and eventually ZOS will be adding new stamina based morphs for Sorcerers and replacing the ones we barely ever use. Whatever... get over it and move on.

Change is going to happen! Can you deal with it?