NB Magicka Melee Caster PvP

akray21

After some absence from the game and coming back in 1.6 I have noticed that some of my main skills as a NB magicka caster have been taken away an given to the stamina users... this is very disappointing to me.

I used to use Ambush, but now I am not sure it is worth the 20% extra damage on the next attack because it now scales off of stamina and weapon power rather than magicka and spell power. What are you other NB Magicka Melee Casters doing for Teleport Strike? Are you leaving it unmorphed, or are you taking the stamina morph?

I also used Killers Blade, and Surprise Attack (both given to the stamina player). I am fine with switching to Impale as I can now execute them while they are trying to run away, but Surprise Attack is different. The bonus you get from Surprise Attack used to be insane for a magicka melee caster. What are people using for this morph now? Switching to Concealed Weapon, or taking a damage hit for the armor reduction and using Surprise Attack?

Just want to get some thoughts on this type of build for PvP. Thanks all!

Fatalyis

Unmorphed Teleport Strike
Concealed Weapon
Impale

Save your stamina for blocking / dodge rolling

Pchela

I use concealed weapon now but put a crushing glyph on my weapon to try and get some armor reduction that I no longer get from surprise attack.

akray21

Pchela wrote: »

I use concealed weapon now but put a crushing glyph on my weapon to try and get some armor reduction that I no longer get from surprise attack.

This is a good idea, I currently have unresistible damage glyph.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Unmorphed Teleport Strike
Concealed Weapon
Impale

Save your stamina for blocking / dodge rolling

That's what I have right now, so good to know I'm not too far off track. How much Magicka/Health/Stamina do you have? Is spell power or max magicka more important?

cwp303b14_ESO

You have got to be kidding me if you are telling me that concealed weapon is now a magicka based, no stealth crit, weaker scaling version of surprise attack that is also mitigated by armor even though it loses all those perks.

YOU. HAVE. GOT. TO. BE. KIDDING.

tonemd

My current Magicka NB build is more about sustainability. I keep Teleport Strike morphed to Lotus Fan on my bar but it is strictly for gap closing so I can hit them with Mass Hysteria. Would love to use the other morph but I need all my measly stamina for tumbling out of big red circles.

akray21

tonemd wrote: »

My current Magicka NB build is more about sustainability. I keep Teleport Strike morphed to Lotus Fan on my bar but it is strictly for gap closing so I can hit them with Mass Hysteria. Would love to use the other morph but I need all my measly stamina for tumbling out of big red circles.

Sustain is a little different, but a lot of the same skills. Basically if I don't kill within the first 5-7 seconds I cast double take and dark cloak and get out of there asap to regen.

I only have about 8-9k stamina, it is kinda an issue. The only time I die is when I get CC'd and don't have enough stamina to break free...

Joy_Division

I find it ridiculous that Lotus Fan is so bad magicka users are actually not morphing that skill.

akray21

Joy_Division wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that Lotus Fan is so bad magicka users are actually not morphing that skill.

It is a little ridiculous that the base skill is better than the morph. I don't know a single use for Lotus Fan. They need to revamp that morph.

Draehl

akray21 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that Lotus Fan is so bad magicka users are actually not morphing that skill.

It is a little ridiculous that the base skill is better than the morph. I don't know a single use for Lotus Fan. They need to revamp that morph.

I could think of a few ideas (not necessarily all of these)

1. Longer range than ambush and/or no windup animation.
2. Make the DoT hit hard. Still over 8s
3. AoE Minor Healing reduction debuff.
4. Reduced cost for next spell by 100%
5. Usable while CCed (breaks CC)

I'd start with #2 and #3 together and see how it plays from there.

ScruffyWhiskers

cwp303b14_ESO wrote: »

You have got to be kidding me if you are telling me that concealed weapon is now a magicka based, no stealth crit, weaker scaling version of surprise attack that is also mitigated by armor even though it loses all those perks.

YOU. HAVE. GOT. TO. BE. KIDDING.

Unless I'm reading the new system wrong, it goes up against spell resistance and isn't mitigated by armor. The stun from invis is nice but it definitely hits a lot softer than surprise attack on a stam build. And the no stealth crit bonus damage is not very nice either. ZoS really needs to rethink the magicka melee mechanics a bit.

Stygian armor is another example of something that just fell through the cracks. It's 5th effect is a bonus for SPELLS from stealth or conceal and it still has a stam attribute boost in it plus it's medium which is the worst part. I used to be a 2 dagger/3 medium stygian nb hybrid but the set is useless now.

I keep getting my hopes crushed with every update that somebody on the ZoS team sees this and wants to fix. I've about had it.

akray21

I actually just use two stygian daggers right now for the spell damage.

I just want my ambush and surprise attack back.

I like the idea that lotus fan could break CC!

Spangla

Please Zos - Make the morphs Ambush - stam or ambush - magic. Remove lotus fan completely.

Suprise attack magic or suprise attack stam. Remove concealed weapon.

Everyone happy?

akray21

Spangla wrote: »

Please Zos - Make the morphs Ambush - stam or ambush - magic. Remove lotus fan completely.

Suprise attack magic or suprise attack stam. Remove concealed weapon.

Everyone happy?

I think they were trying to do a good thing by making some class abilities scale of stamina, but they should not have taken away abilities from magicka users. I think that they should also consider making some of the weapon morphs magicka based. They went to far in buffing stamina and tipped the scale to far.

ScruffyWhiskers

Woahhhhhhhh there cowboy. Concealed weapon's sneak bonus is pretty nice. It's the cornerstone of a lot of magicka melee nb builds. Without it there is no magicka melee for nb's. You can't go around impaling everybody from the start. So let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

All that they really need to do is make lotus fan less lame. And at this point I don't care actually. I used to rely on the non morphed teleport strike but I've changed my play style and now just use invis and concealed weapon for the stun since there is not stealth bonus stun or damage for it anymore. I miss the gap closer but I'm making do.

akray21

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Woahhhhhhhh there cowboy. Concealed weapon's sneak bonus is pretty nice. It's the cornerstone of a lot of magicka melee nb builds. Without it there is no magicka melee for nb's. You can't go around impaling everybody from the start. So let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

All that they really need to do is make lotus fan less lame. And at this point I don't care actually. I used to rely on the non morphed teleport strike but I've changed my play style and now just use invis and concealed weapon for the stun since there is not stealth bonus stun or damage for it anymore. I miss the gap closer but I'm making do.

My favorite ideas for the Lotus Fan magicka morph:
1) Next cast is free
2) CC immunity for 1-2 seconds after cast
3) Breaks CC

ChefZero

My NB atm 28785 Magicka and 2000 Spelldmg.

Teleport Strike: 3996 Dmg, 2995 MagCost
Conceled Weapon: 4995 Dmg, 1996 MagCost
Soul Harvest: 8052 Dmg, 50 UltCost
Swallow Soul: 4526 Dmg, 1011 MagCost

All values from Tooltips. Sry guys, but Magicka-Melee-NB is pretty useless atm, except Soul Harvest.

akray21

ChefZero wrote: »

My NB atm 28785 Magicka and 2000 Spelldmg.

Teleport Strike: 3996 Dmg, 2995 MagCost
Conceled Weapon: 4995 Dmg, 1996 MagCost
Soul Harvest: 8052 Dmg, 50 UltCost
Swallow Soul: 4526 Dmg, 1011 MagCost

All values from Tooltips. Sry guys, but Magicka-Melee-NB is pretty useless atm, except Soul Harvest.

Dang, I'm only at 21275 Magicka after v10 food buff and 1782 Spelldmg. I'm working on getting the Cyrodiil Rings for another 171 spell damage. And I could trade my reduce magicka cost glyphs, but I enjoy those for providing more bust damage. Also, my health after the cyrodiil buff is like 27k, but that's because I did my health attributes for PvE healing.

ScruffyWhiskers

I'm very similar. 26k Magicak, 2016 spell damage. Concealed Weapon is 4877.

The key for me is the maneuverability I get from double take, cripple and dark cloak. But I have nowhere near the burst that I had before. Sad really. I have had to change my approach and give up trying to solo anybody. I prey on the wounded as well as back line support players when the battle swings suddenly and they are getting overwhelmed. Can't go toe to toe with anyone really unless it's another night blade.

I only use swallow soul because I have to run second bar restro and it's all I have. It's terrible for damage. I used to run destro second bar but my life expectancy goes to seconds when I do.

akray21

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm very similar. 26k Magicak, 2016 spell damage. Concealed Weapon is 4877.

The key for me is the maneuverability I get from double take, cripple and dark cloak. But I have nowhere near the burst that I had before. Sad really. I have had to change my approach and give up trying to solo anybody. I prey on the wounded as well as back line support players when the battle swings suddenly and they are getting overwhelmed. Can't go toe to toe with anyone really unless it's another night blade.

I only use swallow soul because I have to run second bar restro and it's all I have. It's terrible for damage. I used to run destro second bar but my life expectancy goes to seconds when I do.

I dueled a very good sword and shield templar. Didn't end up taking her down, but got her down to about 10% health about 6 times, I just ran out of Magicka at that point. I really like the ability to get away from a fight when it turns south. With shades, double taken, and cloak, I can get out of anywhere if I decide to bolt in time.

To get kills I usually wait till I see someone not at full health, I teleport strike in, sap, soul harvest and impale until they die. I then teleport back to my shade and do it again.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Man I read this post as a True Nightblade (with Stamina and magic DPS, stamina and magic tanks, a healer, brawler stamina and magic canon Nightblades) this is how all Nightblade stamina builds felt in 1.5 class powers were awesome if you were magic build but this is the new way just try a stamina build or hybrid build you just may fall in love

akray21

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Man I read this post as a True Nightblade (with Stamina and magic DPS, stamina and magic tanks, a healer, brawler stamina and magic canon Nightblades) this is how all Nightblade stamina builds felt in 1.5 class powers were awesome if you were magic build but this is the new way just try a stamina build or hybrid build you just may fall in love

I can't. In my main group I am a healer for dungeons so I have to stay magicka based unless I want to switch builds daily (not going to do that). It is a shame that they just flipped stamina and magicka NBs... wish they would have taken into consideration the people that actually enjoy Magicka based melee. It's cold out here.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

ChefZero wrote: »

My NB atm 28785 Magicka and 2000 Spelldmg.

Teleport Strike: 3996 Dmg, 2995 MagCost
Conceled Weapon: 4995 Dmg, 1996 MagCost
Soul Harvest: 8052 Dmg, 50 UltCost
Swallow Soul: 4526 Dmg, 1011 MagCost

All values from Tooltips. Sry guys, but Magicka-Melee-NB is pretty useless atm, except Soul Harvest.

Those numbers are not to far from stamina based NB damage per the tool tips. I changed to NB stamina build when 1.6 came out and honestly still favored magicka build. I do wish they buffed light armor a little. I have 25,557 magicka and 1950 spell power, for whatever reason I sit at 2047 to 2145 in PvP, not sure where I am getting the buff lol, but I also always run with spell power potion so I fight with 2345-2500 spell power. Concealed weapon tool tip says 5280 for damage or higher and funnel health for around 4900. Crippling grasp does 1300+8000 DMG per tool tip. Soul harvest is crap for some reason. Tool tip says 8k+. But its barely hitting for more than concealed weapon, I feel my game is broken lol.

I will agree though I feel much weaker now.

Draxys

The whole idea of some morphs being stamina and some magicka just bugs me in general. Mostly in cases like ambush, where one morph is very clearly better than the other, yet it is not viable for a magicka build. Lots of oversight with these changes, in my opinion.

akray21

Just checked my toon...

19791 Magicka, 1830 spell damage

Only 4020 Conceled Weapon
6628 Harvest

Do I need more Magicka or spell damage?

TheBucket

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

akray21

TheBucket wrote: »

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

What is everyone doing with their gear to get Magicka AND spell damage so high? How are people getting over 25k Magicka and still having enough magicka regen to sustain? Must be those freaking racials again, are most all of these builds Breton or Altmer?

ChefZero

TheBucket wrote: »

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

How do you define Burst? Before 1.6 30% dmg of enemy health was no problem. But now 4-5k dmg with one skill are less than 20%..

akray21

ChefZero wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

How do you define Burst? Before 1.6 30% dmg of enemy health was no problem. But now 4-5k dmg with one skill are less than 20%..

I used to have a hybrid build prior to 1.6 that could take down nearly 40% of an enemy health bar in the first second of engagement. Am I doing something wrong?

I get 20% bonus to damage from stealth due to the NB passive, and the Bosmer passive, and yet I feel like my most powerful attack from sneak doesn't even phase the enemy...

deepseamk20b14_ESO

akray21 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

What is everyone doing with their gear to get Magicka AND spell damage so high? How are people getting over 25k Magicka and still having enough magicka regen to sustain? Must be those freaking racials again, are most all of these builds Breton or Altmer?

Personally I have a lot of CP into cost reduction plus cost reduction on jewelry. For instance, funnel health only costs me 398 to cast. I only have 977 magicka regen and with continuous attack its 1053. I wouldn't mind a bit more but the fact my spells cost so little I don't really have to worry about magicka. I am also putting more CP into magicka regen, my goal is to get above 1100 without continuous attack.

My spell damage is higher because I use 4 PC martial knowledge, 3 PC adroitness, 2 PC torugs pact, and 2 rings cyrodiils light. You can replace martial knowledge with magnus for more magicka regen but slightly less spell damage.

akray21

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Magic Nightblado is fine for me. My burst is good. Not sure what the issue is with others

What is everyone doing with their gear to get Magicka AND spell damage so high? How are people getting over 25k Magicka and still having enough magicka regen to sustain? Must be those freaking racials again, are most all of these builds Breton or Altmer?

Personally I have a lot of CP into cost reduction plus cost reduction on jewelry. For instance, funnel health only costs me 398 to cast. I only have 977 magicka regen and with continuous attack its 1053. I wouldn't mind a bit more but the fact my spells cost so little I don't really have to worry about magicka. I am also putting more CP into magicka regen, my goal is to get above 1100 without continuous attack.

My spell damage is higher because I use 4 PC martial knowledge, 3 PC adroitness, 2 PC torugs pact, and 2 rings cyrodiils light. You can replace martial knowledge with magnus for more magicka regen but slightly less spell damage.

Right now I am running:
5 pcs Magnus' Gift
2 pcs Torugs
2 pcs Stygian
3 pcs Soulshine

I am working on getting the two rings of cyrodiils light. With two rings I will have spell damaged buffed 4 times (fairly decent). Martial knowledge is a distant dream ATM.

I have 1178 regen, and 2 reduce magicka cost glphys on my rings. My CP right now is spent on recovery instead of reduce cost. Are CPs better spent on cost reduction or regen?

I would like to be at (not sure how possible this is):
~ 23k Magicka
~ 2k spell damage
~ No less than 1k magicka regen
~ at least some form of cost reduction somewhere