NB feeling like the lesser Sorc

TheElementalPlatypus

There is one thing tha makes these classes the most fun in pvp. Escapability. But after being a long time NB I'm starting to feel there is nothing NB can do that sorcs can't do better.

Note - coming from a solo and small group player

Ganking aside - which many NB's don't care for. Believe it or not, we don't all want to be glass cannon as a no sustain Stam build.

Magic NB really has very little survivability and damaging skills right now.
Sorc has the same if not better burst than NB
Sorc can tank because of the huge shields.
Sorc can escape with bolt - more reliable than cloak

You could argue NB has shades, dodge chance, fear, and unique skills.
But what good are these skills if sorc can do the exact same thing?
Shades - couple bolt escapes and you can kite enemies just as you do with shades.
Dodge chance - you have shields not a random chance
Fear - you have mines and again, can bolt escape through them, which works, unlike cloak.

You are able to tank in light armor because of shields
You have more burst than a NB
You have near infinite resources - assuming you understand managing resources
You can kite enemies to your hearts content

I myself am leveling a sorc because NB feels so underpowered as magic right now. We don't excel at anything we should. I've been hit for 23k burst of not more from one sorc with a curse + frags proc all at once.

NB has no shields or reliable self heal. Neither does sorc, oh wait yes they have practically twice their health in shields.


I wi not give in to the stamina train because I should be able to be effective at magic NB. Now am I saying it sucks? No of course not it's still fun, and it can work. But nowhere near like it would on a sorc.

TheElementalPlatypus

Excuse the grammar errors if there are any - on mobile

Nivzruo_ESO

On my Magika NB I can kill pretty much anything.. except a ward spec sorc, which is every sorc. Could be worse, we could be DKs, who had their whole play style gutted /shrug.

Poxheart

The play style of both my DK and NB were gutted with 1.6, but I've adapted.

TheElementalPlatypus

Yes magic NB IS still effective and viable, but what exactly is the point if sorcs are just us but better?
By now most of us have adapted, but it feels so pointless.

AltusVenifus

I'm don't agree that the NB class isn't powerful right now. I agree that warded sorcs are a huge gameplay imbalance right now, but I will fight any other NB, temp or dragonknight and feel good about my chances.

I think the major argument against playing a NB right now, is the same one it has always been. Our most critical and useful skill does not perform well. Some call it useless, other think it is meh...

As for escaping you need some luck that the skill won't break by ranged or charge attacks, coupled with some type of speed buff to get you out of the general vicinity, not be completely negated by a potion that last 40 seconds and lastly not get stuck in combat for 10 mins.

Here are the standard counter to the above, in case u didn't know:
1. Dodgeroll into stealth (I don't think I even know how to not do this anymore)
2. Rapid maneuvers or blur speed buff applied at all times during an escape
3. None... kinda lame. Maybe pot your own vanish potion, but I've had mixed results.
4. Use terrain to break LOS, so when u do pop out of stealth, they can't see u even if you are visable

I do think some movement skill passives (when invis or stealthed) would even out some of the issues with cloak, but I have given up, thinking that anyone is going to really fix the skill.

Fatalyis

Cloak + Concealed Weapon + Cripple speed boost is, in my opinion, the NBs answer to Bolt Escape. Now, before you guys start lining up with pitchforks, I'm not saying it's as good as BE, but from my experiences it is damn close. The upside to it is that you can zoom out to safety relatively unnoticed (assuming cloak is working correctly and detect pots are not used).

I've not had too many issues vs. sorcs in the past, you win some and you lose some. Hell, I've had random 1v1s where I couldn't bust through the sorcs shield, but he couldn't take me down because I use cloak like nobodies business. This went on until a zerg from his side came roaring through and I cut the hell out.

I think Magicka NB can be very effective, but it definitely takes a bit more skill to play.

eliisra

Magicka NB feels a bit mediocre in 2.0. You lack burst, dps and survivability. My magicka sorcerer is way better in both PvE and PvP.

Think it's because a majority of NB's always wanted traditional stamina or bow ganker builds. The stamina army have been asking for improvements for so long. So ZoS thinks everything is fine now with NB, since stamina is more than viable. Ignoring dinosaurs that still wants class skills and magicka based.

Same reasons stamina sorcerers are bad compared to other classes, ZoS assumes everyone with the class wants to be a caster.

My magicka NB isn't completely useless, it's still good for moderate dps type support build. It just lacks that extra edge, that makes a class fun. Why I rather play my sorc, DK and templar now. If you want high numbers you have to go stamina NB.

RinaldoGandolphi

Sorc are supposed to be the most powerful caster class, were absolute masters of magic and dedicated our entire lives to the study of magic just like mannimarco, just like vanus gallerion.

Attacking a sorc ward, is not the way to go. You must attack our low stamina pools to win which is very doable. Sorcs usually have enough Stam for 2 dodges,or 2 break frees but not both. The sorc is the only class that us always 1 hard cc away from being dead.

Sorc is also the hardest class to master as there is little margin for error, its not as easy as it looks seeing it from the other side, we have more reflected attacks them other classes in a game dominated my wing flaps and sword and board, reflect city.

NB casters can be every bit as good if played correctly.

McDoogs

woodsro wrote: »

Sorc are supposed to be the most powerful caster class, were absolute masters of magic and dedicated our entire lives to the study of magic just like mannimarco, just like vanus gallerion.

Attacking a sorc ward, is not the way to go. You must attack our low stamina pools to win which is very doable. Sorcs usually have enough Stam for 2 dodges,or 2 break frees but not both. The sorc is the only class that us always 1 hard cc away from being dead.

Sorc is also the hardest class to master as there is little margin for error, its not as easy as it looks seeing it from the other side, we have more reflected attacks them other classes in a game dominated my wing flaps and sword and board, reflect city.

NB casters can be every bit as good if played correctly.

This, fear (b/c unblockable) wrecks me on my magicka sorc.

Fatalyis

woodsro wrote: »

Sorc are supposed to be the most powerful caster class, were absolute masters of magic and dedicated our entire lives to the study of magic just like mannimarco, just like vanus gallerion.

Attacking a sorc ward, is not the way to go. You must attack our low stamina pools to win which is very doable. Sorcs usually have enough Stam for 2 dodges,or 2 break frees but not both. The sorc is the only class that us always 1 hard cc away from being dead.

Sorc is also the hardest class to master as there is little margin for error, its not as easy as it looks seeing it from the other side, we have more reflected attacks them other classes in a game dominated my wing flaps and sword and board, reflect city.

NB casters can be every bit as good if played correctly.

Very true. Using Mass Hysteria and Destructive Reach really makes a difference, especially vs. Sorcs....the ones that actually stay for a fight and don't Bolt Escape away the second their shield(s) get breached. I tend to save my CCs until I see their healthbar move, then go in for the kill. It seems to work most times, but the most talented of sorcs are smart enough to keep that from happening. Those tend to be pretty drawn out fights.

AltusVenifus

woodsro wrote: »

Sorc are supposed to be the most powerful caster class, were absolute masters of magic and dedicated our entire lives to the study of magic just like mannimarco, just like vanus gallerion.

Attacking a sorc ward, is not the way to go. You must attack our low stamina pools to win which is very doable. Sorcs usually have enough Stam for 2 dodges,or 2 break frees but not both. The sorc is the only class that us always 1 hard cc away from being dead.

Sorc is also the hardest class to master as there is little margin for error, its not as easy as it looks seeing it from the other side, we have more reflected attacks them other classes in a game dominated my wing flaps and sword and board, reflect city.

NB casters can be every bit as good if played correctly.

This is not what I would recommend. CC immunity last too long to effectively attack stamina any more IMO, unless u see a sorc that blocks while shielded. Then right on...

Soulac

Shadow Image > Bolt Escape

TheBucket

Soulac wrote: »

Shadow Image > Bolt Escape

Stop with that nonsense lol.

Nothing wrong with Magic NB. Thry work really well

Emma_Overload

If I were a NB, I would work on leveraging the Fear spell, or whatever it's called. This is by far the most annoying spell effect in the game, in my opinion, because it can't be blocked or reflected. This is why I absolutely despise the "Scaled Court Illusionist" mobs in Craglorn because they Fear you relentlessly. It also doesn't help that there are usually TWO of them you have to deal with at once... standing far apart, LOL.

kaithuzar

Personally, & maybe I'm just a bad player, but even with DK's being nerfed, I still can't seem to beat them!
Sorc's, np, templars 50/50, dk's 90% i'm going to die.
Between green dragon blood & tri-pots, the max I can get their health down to is 50% then they are right back at 100%.
They hit me once with wrecking blow & if I'm below 90% health, I'm going to die b/c the stun duration last too long. I've put some champion points into break free et al but once I'm taking a knee the barrage of attacks after kills me so quickly I can't do anything. This is with me having 16k spell resist, 16k armor , & over 30k health (or maybe it's 3k, I forget how the numbers were changed & the game is updating right now so I can't see) wearing all heavy armor & still have 20k sp dmg.
Yes I've got some OK self-heals, but I'm not making a stam dk run out of stamina any time soon. B/c I'm a magic nb I can try & go glass cannon but if they reflect my attacks or break free from my stuns there is just nothing I can do.
I absolutely hate things like talons or whatever that earthen AOE thing is. Roll dogging etc... isn't something I'm good at being a caster, maybe I can teleport if I'm using the archer shade, teleport strike doesn't work b/c they are on top of you so you will just be jumping inside the AOE.

Sorc or DK is really the way to be imo. It's sad my nb is my only character =(

Soulac

TheBucket wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Shadow Image > Bolt Escape

Stop with that nonsense lol.

Nothing wrong with Magic NB. Thry work really well

What are you talking about?!

Wreuntzylla

I have both a magicka sorc and a stamina NB at VR14. Whenever I play my sorc, it's stamina NBs or certain hybrid build NB's that wreck me. No other class wrecks a sorc as fast as an NB. So, I paid attention to what those NB's are doing. Now I wreck sorcs with my NB.

There are no 12k+ hits. You chain 6-8k hits in a very short time. Surprisingly short, probably at least partially due to the animation changes in 1.6? On the receiving end, the recap will show fewer hits then it takes to get through shield + health, even though you die shortly after you break cc. The faster deaths show concealed weapon or surprise attack, but ghetto NBs can still be tough just spamming ambush after the opener.

Look around on the other forums and you should be able to find someone posting a spec. Your looking for a build that uses almost exclusively NB damage abilities even when their weapon is 2H or dual wield.

kaithuzar

no 12k+ hits, you've got to be joking

There are plenty of builds that do this! Ever heard of power overload or the sorc execute???

Wreuntzylla

kaithuzar wrote: »

no 12k+ hits, you've got to be joking

There are plenty of builds that do this! Ever heard of power overload or the sorc execute???

Pretty sure the NB doesn't have either overload or endless fury...

Ara_Valleria

I have absolutely no complains regarding my magica NB.

Its really fun and challenging to play. I have good sustain/dps to have long fights or just burst people down and whisper "welcome to cyrodiil"

\( ^ _^)/

TheElementalPlatypus

I believe a lot of you missed the point, of course I use fear, of course I use conceal + cripple speed boost.... and yes sorcs CAN be beaten... it seems this forum community takes everything out of context.

You guys are saying how a sorc can beat a NB and vice versa.... WELL DUH

LOOK AT NB AND GIVE ME A REASON AS TO WHY SORC IS NOT JUST OVERALL BETTER - Hint: there is none

Tankqull

you are underestimationg a guaranteed crit heavy destro attack after cloak for 10-14k, 65% movment speed increasement, 30% additional stam reg allowing you over the fight duration alot more breakfree ore rolls to avoid dmg. and as harness/dampen magica and healing ward are the most powerfull shields you can have - a sorc is not that much ahead or better she isnt at all as beeing untargatable is alot more powerfull than BE thx to cloak wich bugs asmuch as BoL.
so in the end you have slightly less burst better dps and comparable survivability than a sorc.

AhPook_Is_Here

*￣_￣;

cschwingeb14_ESO

NB has access to ridiculously good magicka and stamina sustain. Stam sustain translates directly in to good defense even for magicka builds

Fear is the best CC in the game, way to try and downplay it by comparing it to a 1.8s root spell that takes 3 second to arm.

NB burst is on-demand and mostly instant cast. Sorcs burst is hidden behind long cast times (det, frag), delays (curse, det) or random chance (frag procs). Curse and det also have giant graphics that let the target know they are about to go boom.

NB burst is also higher than anyone else when using weapon/guild skills that are common to all classes due to the from invis/crouch bonus to crit and weapon/spell damage (and 8%magicka passive)

It's actually a running joke in our groups currently, how good NB is. They are better than anything else, with top end gear

Cody

you have to play it WoW style and CC them relentlessly. If you do not you will die, as a sorc can cast their damage shield many times over to the point you will not touch them in a straight up fight.

TheElementalPlatypus

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

NB has access to ridiculously good magicka and stamina sustain. Stam sustain translates directly in to good defense even for magicka builds

Fear is the best CC in the game, way to try and downplay it by comparing it to a 1.8s root spell that takes 3 second to arm.

NB burst is on-demand and mostly instant cast. Sorcs burst is hidden behind long cast times (det, frag), delays (curse, det) or random chance (frag procs). Curse and det also have giant graphics that let the target know they are about to go boom.

NB burst is also higher than anyone else when using weapon/guild skills that are common to all classes due to the from invis/crouch bonus to crit and weapon/spell damage (and 8%magicka passive)

It's actually a running joke in our groups currently, how good NB is. They are better than anything else, with top end gear

Stamina is irrelevant here as I'm clearly not talking about it.

This one made me laugh pretty hard, so nice for doing that. First of all the sustain? Yes... any class can pull off good sustain... lol?

Trying to downplay fear? No fear is amazing, I use it a TON, but what do we use it for? Melee people against us, sorcs completely negate getting ANYWHERE close to them with mines, as burst + a few mines (good damage from them) = death.

The whole cast time for sorcs.... I have a buddy, his name is Cloud. He runs a vr3 sorc atm. If you call his burst "Delayed or long cast times" I think after you saw it you would realize how irrelevant that statement alone is. So what if it takes 3 seconds to burst someone? They can facetank them for 3 seconds, and at command stack those shields RIGHT back up.

And finally running in groups. This one was the best part. You completely disregarded my entire statement before the post "Solo or small group player" Believe it or not some of like to play where WE actually earn the kills and not have 30 other people behind us zerging.

Draehl

Fatalyis wrote: »

Cloak + Concealed Weapon + Cripple speed boost is, in my opinion, the NBs answer to Bolt Escape. Now, before you guys start lining up with pitchforks, I'm not saying it's as good as BE, but from my experiences it is damn close.

Ball Lightning absorbs Crippling Grasp. If I could actually use this on Sorcs I would gladly drain all my magicka and die in the process if it meant someone else could have a chance at killing the sorc.

Draehl

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

NB has access to ridiculously good magicka and stamina sustain. Stam sustain translates directly in to good defense even for magicka builds

Stamina I will agree. Magicka only if you run Siphoning Attacks, but with the advent of such strong burst damage in 1.6, we're almost forced to run S&B for Absorb Magic (since we don't have a class absorb shield like Sorcs do) meaning we can't weave light attacks, meaning the usefulness of Siphoning Attacks is drastically reduced.

I've dropped Siphoning attacks for 1.6 it's a waste of a skill slot (still great in PvE) If burst ever gets reigned in I'd happily go back to 5 heavy/2light, dual staves, and put Siphoning Attacks back on the bar. It's a way more enjoyable playstyle, but the ability for Absorb Magic to eat a hit as well as any corresponding CC far trumps anything Heavy Armor or Harness Magicka can offer.

Fear is the best CC in the game, way to try and downplay it by comparing it to a 1.8s root spell that takes 3 second to arm.

The melee range is rather prohibitive, especially as a caster build. I won't compare it to mines (I agree they're mostly trash), but Crystal Frag procs (spam entropy for procs) is far stronger. I'll admit the block-breaking capability is rather useful against DKs.

NB burst is on-demand and mostly instant cast. Sorcs burst is hidden behind long cast times (det, frag), delays (curse, det) or random chance (frag procs). Curse and det also have giant graphics that let the target know they are about to go boom.

Magicka build burst pales compared to Stamina. I'd rather lose burst and have our sustained damage looked at since sustain should really be the name of the game for magicka NBs especially when you look at the self healing/CC it should really be paired with better sustained damage and less burst. Our best DoT- Crippling Grasp still only does ~2 Funnel Healths worth of damage, which is pretty pathetic as DoTs go.

I know my opinion in this regard will differ from most NBs but that's fine =P

TheElementalPlatypus

Draehl wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

NB has access to ridiculously good magicka and stamina sustain. Stam sustain translates directly in to good defense even for magicka builds

I know my opinion in this regard will differ from most NBs but that's fine =P

Well said my friend, well said.

The_Death_Princess

Didnt I see post 1.6 threads saying Sorc is useless and been nerfed to death?

Im only posting, because you are basically right. To a point, Sorc are now the OP build in PvP that DK was.

Used to be I would see DK go in to any situation and believe they could survive long time no worries. Now its only Sorc I see doing this.

Overall, Sorc has always needed some tweaks (bolt is OP, etc). Anyone that can survive 10 weaved WB in a row from my Temp you have to ask if that is balanced.

Oh Post Note:

ZOS, again, fix targeting. Sorc with 4 pets on you is stupidly OP. I fought one of these and my tab targeting would NOT hit the Sorc. This is a guaranteed I win for this class, which no one else has or can counter. Only you can fix the game so tab targeting matters - and that should have been done ages ago.