Restoring Light.

Zsymon

This is an entire tree devoted to healing, healing is all it can do.. yet it got nerfed into the ground so hard that right now we aren't any better healers than a Dragonknight for example, they only need one single skill to be as good as a Templar. Igneous Shield gives an AOE damage shield and +30% healing, that one skill equals an entire skill tree. That skill shouldn't be downgraded of course, it is a good skill, but what was the reason that restoring Light got nerfed so hard? We lost 30% crit chance, our healing ultimate was halved in power, restoration staff passives don't affect Restoring Light skills anymore, why did they do this?

Fizzlewizzle

Lockles wrote: »

A lot of complaints here...

You realize no one forced you to be a templar? >.>


Anyway..
The Templar is a support class.
It's actually difficult to be a templar that doesn't support others in some way. Contrary to say a Nightblade who goes for all-out damage. You don't get jack from that guy.

We have a buff that increases resource regeneration for 15 seconds for everyone around us. That increases the sustained healing, tanking and dpsing of the group. For you personally it'll suck, but the bigger the group the more powerful the effect.

Then there's a rune people can just stand in to increase survival chances with some very nice buffs and also adds more Magicka Regeneration. And people standing in it get more healing from all templars using their healing abilities.
Not just healers mind you, but how many templars with big swords run around without at least 1 healing skill on their bar?

Casting anything from Dawn's Warth gives everyone a little more spell power. You know, more damage and healing to their spells, which they can cast more because of all the magicka regen you're giving.

And I know for big fights it's not as impressive because you could be capping off potential damage on the target. But if people are just tossing aoe's about spam this at a few enemies. Backlash can increase the DPS of an entire group by 33% for 6 seconds. You could just refresh it every 6 seconds, cause why not? It'll refresh the Dawn's Wrath passive spell power buff for everyone.

Now for fun you could toss a Luminous Shards under a melee partymember's feet. Give him some resource regeneration as well.

Wait, so how much did you improve everyone at their job?
A whole damn lot?

Lets add to that an AoE debuff to enemy healing. Not sure, can other classes cripple healing received like that? Hang on I'll check before I keep typing...
Right, the DK and Nightblade can give the same debuff. But only in a melee range radius and only when their ultimate is up. When can you do it?
Whenever you damn well feel like it, from maximum range.

A 3 person snare effect, sure it's not the entire raid, but it's coming from maximum range, so try using it on people who are kiting or fleeing from the fight in PvP to let your warriors catch up and bring the pain.

Our ultimates aren't all that great in PVP, that much I'll admit.... So maybe use War Horn? Seems to go well with what we're doing here. And for the other one.. I think I'd go with Ice Comet. Just to have something big to toss at enemies shooting from a wall or something. Probably never going to use it, but it's nice to have something and not need it, right?

Do the zerg a favour, put Retreating Manouver on your bar too. Everyone and their mom's are using Charging Manouver already to keep punting while running. But sometimes your warriors need a hand closing gaps.
When it's time to run, some one else is bound to give you Charging Manouver anyway, so you don't need it.

Lets see, by my estimate we're still 3 abilities short of filling up the entire bar..
Soul Splitting Trap maybe? Stack up some filled soul gems so you can get fallen people up. Cause, you know, no one resses as fast as you. You got that passive no other class can have.

For the last 2 I'd take Radiant Shield and I prefere a 1h and shield for Absorb Magic. Just so you survive a little longer, fleeing isn't your best option after all.
But you could put some healing skills on there. Depends a bit on how many healers there are around already. Healing does drain your magicka quite a bit, making you unable to sustain all the buffs you're tossing out. So only do it when people are in serious trouble.

Now I know what you're thinking.. You're not going to have fun watching your friends kill stuff while you're just standing there making them better at it.
But exactly that thought is why you shouldn't have rolled a Templar in the first place.
If you don't like Support, be a Dragon Knight, punch stuff with a big sword and not a single working braincell. Or sneak around as a Nightblade and go "trollolol I ganked you and you didn't even see me coming. Cause you couldn't. Cause I'm lame like that."

I wouldn't mind if i weren't a fighter at all. I choose the Templar to be a support for the team, not because of its fighting potential. I prefer to stand in the back and be save than on the frontline getting killed.

If it was all as nice as you make it sound then nobody would be complaining.

The support we give however got nerfed so bad that its not funny anymore.
The resource regen buff we had got nerfed by 120% (60% Health regen and 60% Stamina regen).
The magicka regen we give is from a rune thats smaller than the smallest AOE, meaning that everyone who wants that magicka regen has to stack up so much that you can get whipped in a swoop (bosses love doing that).

The heals we have are below par compared to Restoration staff heals. The Restoration staff bonuses no longer apply to Restoring Light bonuses, The Restoring Light bonuses got nerfed and no longer affect Restoration staff healing.

Our uber AOE heal (Healing Ritual) has a 2 second casting time, in which a complete group can be killed.
Our other uber AOE heal (Rite of Passage) got a ninja nerf to only do 50% of its previous healing, and only up to 6 people (meaning that a Raid group will be killed if you use this).

So... our support is based on a healing debuff (which only has some use in PvP) and 5% magick attack. The rest is possible for every other class.
Drop down a Blood Altar or pop a potion and you get the Health regen. Pop a potion and you have the Stamina Regen.

Our only bonus is a 20% resurrection speed... but did you know that you can get 25% extra resurrection speed by using the Kagrenac's hope set?

Also... something more general...
Wasn't our resurrection speed 40% at max? Don't tell me they nerved that to without putting it in the patch notes.

omfgitsbatman

Zsymon wrote: »

This is an entire tree devoted to healing, healing is all it can do.. yet it got nerfed into the ground so hard that right now we aren't any better healers than a Dragonknight for example, they only need one single skill to be as good as a Templar. Igneous Shield gives an AOE damage shield and +30% healing, that one skill equals an entire skill tree. That skill shouldn't be downgraded of course, it is a good skill, but what was the reason that restoring Light got nerfed so hard? We lost 30% crit chance, our healing ultimate was halved in power, restoration staff passives don't affect Restoring Light skills anymore, why did they do this?

Balance. Templars are not meant to be the only class healing. The notion that Templars should be the best healers is just plain wrong. Other classes are supposed to be able to heal just as well. Right now, the balance is actually pretty decent. Each class has a niche. Templars are the best at spread out healing. Nightblades are the best at healing while dealing damage. Dks are best at keeping groups topped off with damage shields. Sorcs are best at sustaining for long periods of time.
Before the "Nerfs" Templars were vastly considered the only class capable of healing. This mentality will fade soon enough.

Zsymon

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

If Templars aren't supposed to be the best healers, then why do we have to waste an entire skill tree on nothing but healing abilities? If we aren't meant to be the best, then we should get different abilities not all focused on healing.

How is it fair that others can heal as well as Templars, yet they only have one or none at all ability devoted to healing, while we have an entire tree plus all passives of that tree. We lose out on a lot of potentially interesting abilities like this that we could have instead of 6 healing abilities and 4 healing passives.

Catstyle

Monitoring this topic. : )

deleted221205-002626

Zsymon wrote: »

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

If Templars aren't supposed to be the best healers, then why do we have to waste an entire skill tree on nothing but healing abilities? If we aren't meant to be the best, then we should get different abilities not all focused on healing.

How is it fair that others can heal as well as Templars, yet they only have one or none at all ability devoted to healing, while we have an entire tree plus all passives of that tree. We lose out on a lot of potentially interesting abilities like this that we could have instead of 6 healing abilities and 4 healing passives.

What potentially interesting abilities are we losing out on? The healing tree perhaps that is completely unique to us?

I for one have no issues with my Templar and never have.. There always been an ability to counter whatever I needed and I spent the time to find it.. You may want to as well and give up the cookie cutter builds from the forums

MyNegation

the active skills are fine, but restoring light passives are mostly useless...

mending-> up to 10% increase, but in order to have the increase you must keep your party low on health...
should be changed to "low on health or has harmful effect" or double the healing increase to 20% on low HP for the "oh s-h-i-t" moments.

light weaver-> increase the duration of the skill that nobody actively uses, but keeps only for passive regen....
should increase the duration of all restoring light abilities (including the ultimate) and not only Restoring Aura

also "Healing Ritual grants allies under 60% Health 1 Ultimate"
what? a whole 1 ultimate for injured people on another spell that the only reason that i know its name is that every healing guide write in BOLD CAPS not to slot this ability ever?

Master Ritualist is also very weak passive.
in order to benefit the passive you have to be a bad healer and let your group die.
it should also increase the AOE range of all Restoring light skills, or increase spell crit for Restoring light skills

Mumyo

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

This is an entire tree devoted to healing, healing is all it can do.. yet it got nerfed into the ground so hard that right now we aren't any better healers than a Dragonknight for example, they only need one single skill to be as good as a Templar. Igneous Shield gives an AOE damage shield and +30% healing, that one skill equals an entire skill tree. That skill shouldn't be downgraded of course, it is a good skill, but what was the reason that restoring Light got nerfed so hard? We lost 30% crit chance, our healing ultimate was halved in power, restoration staff passives don't affect Restoring Light skills anymore, why did they do this?

Balance. Templars are not meant to be the only class healing. The notion that Templars should be the best healers is just plain wrong. Other classes are supposed to be able to heal just as well. Right now, the balance is actually pretty decent. Each class has a niche. Templars are the best at spread out healing. Nightblades are the best at healing while dealing damage. Dks are best at keeping groups topped off with damage shields. Sorcs are best at sustaining for long periods of time.
Before the "Nerfs" Templars were vastly considered the only class capable of healing. This mentality will fade soon enough.

I agree but the problem is that we are worse then any other classes in the other aspects. Melee dmg is ok now but in terms of pvp i realised that many cc options are gone and in case u use jabs for instance u totally have no cc.
Also we now lack lots of surviveability and ressource management sincve they nerfed that to the ground aswell.

Im glad someone sees that templar isnt automatically a healer but he should get some other things that make him strong and i dont talk about radiant destruction which is only good in a big zerg and a class shouldnt be reduced to a executioner only.
Actually in PvP nobod fears a Templar these days for a reason... he cant defend himself.

Mumyo

Also, i think we support our groups not as good a the other classes. just think about the strength of talons, bol etc.
They support PvP groupfights in a very significant way! CC was mostly taken from us and our healing tree is not really strong anymore and very costy.

I as a stamina templar now see dodgerolls as my only defence and use max 2 cassskills because more would simply weaken me. The easiest targets for me are also definately Templars, they die fastest and give no resistence.

Islyn

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

This is an entire tree devoted to healing, healing is all it can do.. yet it got nerfed into the ground so hard that right now we aren't any better healers than a Dragonknight for example, they only need one single skill to be as good as a Templar. Igneous Shield gives an AOE damage shield and +30% healing, that one skill equals an entire skill tree. That skill shouldn't be downgraded of course, it is a good skill, but what was the reason that restoring Light got nerfed so hard? We lost 30% crit chance, our healing ultimate was halved in power, restoration staff passives don't affect Restoring Light skills anymore, why did they do this?

Balance. Templars are not meant to be the only class healing. The notion that Templars should be the best healers is just plain wrong. Other classes are supposed to be able to heal just as well. Right now, the balance is actually pretty decent. Each class has a niche. Templars are the best at spread out healing. Nightblades are the best at healing while dealing damage. Dks are best at keeping groups topped off with damage shields. Sorcs are best at sustaining for long periods of time.
Before the "Nerfs" Templars were vastly considered the only class capable of healing. This mentality will fade soon enough.

Why not? It is what 1/3 of their skills are centred around. Can't have any good dps either then? One stupid jesus beam does not a good dps make.

Also no other class has a whole 1/3 of their skill choices around healing - so yeah actually I think templars *should* be the best at healing. One healing staff does not a good healer make.

Islyn

Zsymon wrote: »

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

If Templars aren't supposed to be the best healers, then why do we have to waste an entire skill tree on nothing but healing abilities? If we aren't meant to be the best, then we should get different abilities not all focused on healing.

How is it fair that others can heal as well as Templars, yet they only have one or none at all ability devoted to healing, while we have an entire tree plus all passives of that tree. We lose out on a lot of potentially interesting abilities like this that we could have instead of 6 healing abilities and 4 healing passives.

I agree with you except for any others being as good healers. A good templar will outheal any other class on content that is actually hard to live through.

Zsymon

michaelpatterson wrote: »

What potentially interesting abilities are we losing out on? The healing tree perhaps that is completely unique to us?

I for one have no issues with my Templar and never have.. There always been an ability to counter whatever I needed and I spent the time to find it.. You may want to as well and give up the cookie cutter builds from the forums

If we can't be the best healers with an entire tree devoted to healing, then what is the point of having that tree? Why not replace those abilities and passives with skills that are more offensive, because right now Templar class offense is terribly ineffective. Compare this to the plethora of offensive choices the Nightblade or Sorcerer has, they can heal as well because Healing Springs is simply powerful, with strong armor set bonuses supporting Restoration Staves, yet they have endless choices in how they can destroy an enemy.

A magicka Templar for example has to choose to be a healer, because being a Sun Mage simply isn't viable, you won't kill anyone with that, all offensive Sun skills are either incredibly easy to avoid, interrupt and see coming, or get prevented by CC immunity, or are there only for group support. A sorcerer only has to pop Overload and he'll kill five people with it, even without an ultimate he can destroy enemies using nothing but class skills. A Dragonknight with talons and Whip, or a skilled Siphoning Nightblade. Compared to this Templars are incredibly weak and impotent. Even stamina Templars only work because Wrecking Blow is strong, a non class skill.

Ashanne

They completely ruined Templars (but hey we got RD.. that if it decides to fire cuz mine is moody )

regarding balance..what balance???? They gave healing to the dps classes and took away from us and got an executioner in this exchange. Our sustained DPS sucks as magika users
-Temps had healing for escaping bad situations .BS nerfed (increased 10% cost and in PVP 15% less strength) and we also have the most bugged skills in the game (Eclipse/Focused charge )
- Sorcs have streak
- NBs have in cloack
- Dks...well dks are dks...

Noone said temp had to be the only healing class but if we do have 4 skills dedicated to that we should at least be the best healers. Any skill in PVP hits for at least 8k and we heal for 7k not to mention the 14k siege damage..balance my a**

Fizzlewizzle

I agree with some points made here.
Since all of the skills in the Restoring Light tree are focused on healing (or regen), you would expect that Templars (far?) surpass other classes when it comes to healing. If they wanted equality they shouldn't have given Templars so many healing skills that do nothing but healing.

Some of the skills are pretty useless.
Restoring Aura: Health and Stamina regen increased by 20% for 12 seconds.
- Blood Altar: Increase Health regen by 20% for 30 seconds.
- A potion (without using time extension Glimpses) already does it for 40+ seconds.

Most people seem to have problems with Healing Ritual (although i like using it myself).
Honor the Dead also seems to be a not so well received skill (morph), which they get.
And Restoring Focus also became pretty weak.

i would be for adding some damage to the restoring Light skills, but them losing their current healing power (or having them lowered) isn't really something i would be cheering for.

Let healing Ritual deal the same amount of damage as it heals within its range (a AOE skill with a 2 second casting time that also heals).
Make Honor the Dead an Stronger version of Quick Siphon, so that it becomes more useful for 1v1/ Stamina fighters.

Baconlad

Wow you guys are for the most part some haters! Templar is not broken, we still are the absolute best healers, why BoL of course. Even forgetting about the passives and ability nerfs, we are still the best...no other class can deal with huge incoming damage of bosses as effectively as we can, no blood mage/ rock shield dk/ or sorc. And its funny cause I can out survive a dk vs players in pvp given the same players against me. Few different reasons, but mostly, blazing shield, channeled focus, and breath of life. For gods sake I tanked bogdan gold key the other night and kept those three abilities up consistently, never dropped below 50% health, and this was alone! All heals and dps were dead, I managed to tank him like this alone for like four minutes before my team got tired and yelled at me to reset, I didn't...i rezzed them all, and healed them until all were up and we killed bogdan...DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the template defensive capabilities, with channeled focus, drinks, set bonuses, I'm sitting at 25k health, 13500 magicka, 8500 stamina/ WITH over 2000 magick recovery, 1200 stamina recovery, and 1000 health recovery...templar are seriously the KINGS of staying alive. Anyone saying they are not are either not built properly for healing or tanking, or they are a dps spec. Dps specced being understandable as you SHOULDNT be alive for long in pvp and you should have a hard time in dungeons, but big surprise all classes strugle for defense in dps spec, (maybe except DK may have a bit of an easier time staying alive dps). Plus they buffed our damage...what are you guys whining about?

Baconlad

I will say that the above bogdan fight, I was spamming potions off cool down. So alot more that 2000 recovery on magicka. I'm also wearing five piece healer, five piece seducer, 5h/ 2l armor, blood spawn set. Also I have not ran a trial with this set up, mainly because most trails group already have favorite tanks they use, I don't care for trials too much other than achievements, and in a trial you have two full time healers, why do you need a tank that has lower resists, lower health? Not that it wont work, just that you don't really need to heal as a tank in trials. Make sense?

One last thing, class skills kinda dictate your playstyle. For example, templar do not make such great stamina tanks compared to dragonknights, but the EXCELL in magicka tanking. Like DKs do significantly better as stamina dps when compared to sorc or templar, but sorc and templar do better in magicka dps than dragonknight. Thanks for listening.

Fizzlewizzle

That was a lot of writing... but nothing that contributes to this whole topic.

If your set-up is build right you can do everything you want.
I'm a healer, i have less then 20K HP (In PvP) and i can't even hurt a fly. But i have yet to come across a single person who can kill me alone, be it by surprise or face to face.

The whole point is that Templars were nerfed, and the Restoring Light tree (here the main topic) was not spared by those nerfs. We got nothing noteworthy in return, but people still expect us to keep smiling and except it.
If you look around the forums you will see that half the Templar skills are broken or bugged, some even since launch. Lots of complaints were made yet nothing was done yet. There are Templars that want justice, or at least some sort of reaction for ZoS.

Do Templars work as it is now... yes. Does that change the fact that there is a lot of stuff broken that needs fixing... NO.

Vandril

I can't believe I'm actually reading opinions of people believing that Templar should be the undisputed best healer just because they have a healing skill line.

By that same logic, any class with a DPS skill line should be the best at DPS.

By that same logic, any class with a Tanking skill line should be the best at tanking.

Guys, that's just not how it works. Every class has abilities that do various things. You can generally classify each ability into (primarily) one or two of a few categories (off the top of my head - I may have missed something, but that doesn't really change my overall point):

• Damage
• Recovery
• Mitigation (Includes taunts, as tanking mitigates harm to others by redirecting said harm to a heavily fortified unit)
• Mobility
• Crowd Control
• Buffs
• Debuffs

Expanding on this, many of these categories fulfill or support two specific niches:

• Causing enemies harm
• Sustaining allies' lives

I mean, that is the point of combat in this game, right? Your enemy dies, but you don't. That's called victory. No matter if your spell or ability is dealing direct damage, lowering enemy resistances, or increasing the mobility of your allies for ease of staying on a target, the end result is more harm to your enemies. Likewise, no matter if your spell or ability is doing direct healing, increasing mitigation, or stunning the enemy so that they cannot attack your allies, the end result is further sustainment of your allies' lives.

Every single class in the game has abilities that play into both of the above niches, even in just their class skills. While it's true that Templar is the only class that has so many skills dedicated to direct healing, ultimately, that only means that they have multiple skills dedicated to the niche of sustaining allies' lives by reversing harm previously done. Templar is not the only class that has skills which play into that same niche. I'll use my main class, Nightblade, as an example, as I am most familiar with that class. Nightblade has an ultimate called Consuming Darkness. It and its morphs both spawn an area of effect which, while inside, causes players to take 30% less damage (amongst other things, but this is the important part for this conversation). Even though this is not a direct heal and does not reverse previously done harm to your allies, it mitigates upcoming harm, and therefore plays into the niche of sustaining allies' lives. In that way, it covers the same niche as a direct healing spell and is therefore useful for healers.

My point in all this? Templar is not the only class with spells and abilities that cover the life-sustainement niche, such as healing. They should not be the ultimate healers, because they are no more a healer than any other class. The only difference between a Templar's healing and another class' healing is that Templar healing directly increases health where as "healing" from other classes tend to take a different approach to sustainment.

Every class has spells and abilities which result in sustainment of allies' lives. The Templar healing skill line is no more a waste for them just because that class is not the best healer in the game any more than any other healing/support skill is on any other class just because they aren't the best healers in the game.

Edit: Spelling. Word flow. Clarity.

Fizzlewizzle

To give a short and simple answer to this:
Templars are the only class that have a complete tree dedicated to healing and restoring.

If any other class had a tree completely dedicated to Tanking (Damage shields, damage mitigation, taunts) then you would expect them to be the best tanks in game.
Same for a class with a tree 100% focused on damage.

Since those two trees don't exist you can't make a statement like this:

Vandril wrote: »

I can't believe I'm actually reading opinions of people believing that Templar should be the undisputed best healer just because they have a healing skill line.

By that same logic, any class with a DPS skill line should be the best at DPS.

By that same logic, any class with a Tanking skill line should be the best at tanking.

Guys, that's just not how it works. Every class has abilities that do various things. You can generally classify each ability into (primarily) one or two of a few categories (off the top of my head - I may have missed something, but that doesn't really change my overall point):

I would agree with you if you said:
"A class with ONLY DPS skills in a skill tree should be the best DPS class"and "A class with ONLY Tanking skills in a skill tree should be the best tank in game".

Since Templars are the ONLY class with a skill tree 100% focused on healing and regeneration, you would expect them to be the best at that, no questions asked.

Mumyo

Baconlad wrote: »

Wow you guys are for the most part some haters! Templar is not broken, we still are the absolute best healers, why BoL of course. Even forgetting about the passives and ability nerfs, we are still the best...no other class can deal with huge incoming damage of bosses as effectively as we can, no blood mage/ rock shield dk/ or sorc. And its funny cause I can out survive a dk vs players in pvp given the same players against me. Few different reasons, but mostly, blazing shield, channeled focus, and breath of life. For gods sake I tanked bogdan gold key the other night and kept those three abilities up consistently, never dropped below 50% health, and this was alone! All heals and dps were dead, I managed to tank him like this alone for like four minutes before my team got tired and yelled at me to reset, I didn't...i rezzed them all, and healed them until all were up and we killed bogdan...DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the template defensive capabilities, with channeled focus, drinks, set bonuses, I'm sitting at 25k health, 13500 magicka, 8500 stamina/ WITH over 2000 magick recovery, 1200 stamina recovery, and 1000 health recovery...templar are seriously the KINGS of staying alive. Anyone saying they are not are either not built properly for healing or tanking, or they are a dps spec. Dps specced being understandable as you SHOULDNT be alive for long in pvp and you should have a hard time in dungeons, but big surprise all classes strugle for defense in dps spec, (maybe except DK may have a bit of an easier time staying alive dps). Plus they buffed our damage...what are you guys whining about?

LOL

just take a look at the sorc, their dmg scales off magica and so does their shield, they have bol and with that, the best escape ingame as the best shield ingame with around 4 times the size of a templars shield. "but big surprise all classes strugle for defense in dps spec" so much to that.

I have the feeling u are a zergling since u seem to have no clue.
In case u need more examples, ask for em.

Soris

Good ol' Blazing Shield.

Cost increased by 10%
Shield strength is reduced because health pools are reduced
Shield strength is reduced once more in Cyrodiil by 15%
Thus damage is reduced by ridiculous amount.

You will be missed


On top of that,
Templar class healing nerfed
Cyrodiil healing done is reduced
Restoring Aura nerfed on ground and this means less to no regen.

And more,
Block and dodge costs are increased.

Dunno how to survive with all that when there is huge incoming burst damage and siege damage coming from every corner. I just can't figure out how to deal with all these other than just dodge.

likewow777

I'll preface this by saying, I do not think Templars should by right be the best healers. ZOS probably agrees on this point, which is why they keep nerfing class heals. I would point out that DKs actually do have a lot of tanking-type of skills scattering their class trees. Earthen Heart is a good example, especially the passives. Of course, while ZOS thinks Templars shouldn't be the best healers, they do seem to think DKs should be the best tanks. But that's a discussion for a different thread.


Templars are the best healers:

When I'm asked to heal, it's pretty much because I'm a Templar, and I'll admit first hand that I'm not that great. What I wear normally is tanking gear, my skills are setup that way, and I don't have the magicka that a "true healer" likely has. That said, there have been many cases where damage is dealt to my group with such gusto that I often wonder how the hell a non-Templar could possibly keep everyone alive. I can do it, but only because I've got burst healing in my back pocket. And if need be, Cleansing Ritual goes down for the 30% passive.

Healing Springs is great, but the mechanics for a some of these fights is to spread apart, divide adds, etc (I'm thinking VR Elden Hollow, off the top of my head). Perhaps I just don't have the reaction time to drop Springs back and forth amongst my members when two-shot attacks happen.


Templars need better healing:

Yes. That's almost the only thing that needs to be said. Any argument against that makes no sense. Should we be the BEST healers? Well, I think we might be already, if for no other reason than we have more spells to use. I'd rather abuse the crap out of Healing Springs, and still have Templar spells in case i need them, than the other way around.

Regardless of your stance on the "best healer" argument, someone clearly thought Templars should be able to keep the group alive. Forgetting Restoring Light for a moment:

-Luminous Shards - restore stamina and magicka to an ally
-Nova - enemies do 30% less damage, not just to the caster
-Eclipse - target reflects back on himself, rather than caster reflects to target *ahem* SCALES *ahem*
-Purifying Light - the heal hasn't always worked, but it's a heal for allies nonetheless when the effect ends

Plus the 3-4 passives that give allies more health on resurrect, buffs, and ultimate. Thought was put into this class to make it one that helps allies, regardless of role, more so than other classes, IMHO. When I heal, everyone heals. When I used to buff with Radiant Aura, everyone buffs. When I Repentance for health/stamina, everyone gets it. Nerfing heals for a class that was seems to be designed to save the group when no one else can makes no sense.


Solution:

Buff Restoration staff. Buff the living crap out of it. Buff it til hardcore tanks and stamina builds with no magicka whatsoever are salivating at the idea that heals of that quality are even possible, trampling over each other to get to shrines so they can respec. But for ****'s sake, stop killing Restoring Light.

Khivas_Carrick

I really do not think for w second that templars are the worst healers. I'm actually wondering how you guys came to that conclusion

Soris

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I really do not think for w second that templars are the worst healers. I'm actually wondering how you guys came to that conclusion

I don't see anyone said worst of all 4 classes. Point is, bringing his healing capabilities in line with other classes while also having an entire skill tree dedicated for healing, while other classes can just use restoration staves to reach similar numbers in terms of healing.

Fizzlewizzle

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I really do not think for w second that templars are the worst healers. I'm actually wondering how you guys came to that conclusion

Its not about being good or bad healers, its about having a complete healing tree thats below par.

Yesterday a guildmate was looking for a healer voor VR Selenes Web. I, having not much to do, offered my services so they could clear the dungeon.
I'm the 1% that doesn't use a Restoration staff when healing, as i'm build around sustaining Healing Ritual
spam (which gets me to 13-15k healing every 1.7 seconds, without counting Purifying Ritual which has 95% uptime)

Can you guess what they had to say about my way of healing?
"Why aren't you using a restoration staff"
"We are looking for a dedicated healer"
"We need a healer, not a Tank"
"If you want to be a healer you should change to Restoration staff"

I really was about to snap during that fight.
I'm a Templar. I have a skill tree deducated to healing. Yet somehow i'm getting showered with compaints because i'm not using the tool everyone has access too over a "dedicated" healing tree.

You know what i got when i said that after we finished the dungeon?
"You can play however you like, but there are times you need to think about the team."
You can tell me a lot... but not that all those AOE heals in the restoring light tree are for when you play solo.
That stuff is meant to support a team with, yet people request a "serious" or "dedicated" healer when you use them.

If healing is supposed to be done with a Restoration staff, then change the Restoring Light tree to a skill tree with which we can wreck peoples faces with. If its supposed to be a dedicated healing tree then MAKE IT BETTER THEN SOME TREE EVERY BLOODY PLEBEIAN HAS ACCESS TO!

Vandril

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

To give a short and simple answer to this:
Templars are the only class that have a complete tree dedicated to healing and restoring.

If any other class had a tree completely dedicated to Tanking (Damage shields, damage mitigation, taunts) then you would expect them to be the best tanks in game.
Same for a class with a tree 100% focused on damage.

Since those two trees don't exist you can't make a statement like this:

Vandril wrote: »

I can't believe I'm actually reading opinions of people believing that Templar should be the undisputed best healer just because they have a healing skill line.

By that same logic, any class with a DPS skill line should be the best at DPS.

By that same logic, any class with a Tanking skill line should be the best at tanking.

Guys, that's just not how it works. Every class has abilities that do various things. You can generally classify each ability into (primarily) one or two of a few categories (off the top of my head - I may have missed something, but that doesn't really change my overall point):

I would agree with you if you said:
"A class with ONLY DPS skills in a skill tree should be the best DPS class"and "A class with ONLY Tanking skills in a skill tree should be the best tank in game".

Since Templars are the ONLY class with a skill tree 100% focused on healing and regeneration, you would expect them to be the best at that, no questions asked.

Dragon Knight's Ardent Flame skill line is all about damage, and just so happens to have some damage-oriented utility alongside it.

Dragon Knight's Draconic Power skill line is more or less all about tanking. Its only damage is paired to an AoE that is meant to heal them and cause AoE threat (through the damage). Its CC is meant to be used when threat it lost on root-able mobs. It's ultimate is used for AoE dmg (threat) + CC (the short knockback can aoe-interrupt casters) and, if a specific morph is taken, grants a health bubble to the Dragon Knight.

Despite this, Dragon Knight should be neither the best Tank nor the best DPS.

Minus a single skill (Blur), Nightblade's Assassination line is all about DPS. Nightblades, too, should not be the best DPS.

Minus a single skill (Eclipse), Templar's Dawn's Wrath line is all about DPS. Templars should also not be the best DPS.

Oh, and Rune Focus in Templar's Restoring Light line is as much a tanking skill as it is a healing one. Which means that Restoring Light does not only focus on healing. At least no more than Nightblade's Assassination line and Templar's Dawn's Wrath line only focus on DPS.

To be frank, the idea that Templar is the only class that has a skill line largely focused on a single thing is complete bullcrap. It's just not true. And even if it were, my post above explains, in detail, why it wouldn't and shouldn't result in them being the best at that single role regardless.

Which brings me to my next point: you really shouldn't ignore the rest of my previous post, seeing as that was the majority of my post's point. The part you quoted was little more than an example of how ridiculous the complaints sound regarding Templar not being the best healing class.

@Fizzlewizzle - What you described is a player issue, not a mechanics one. Restoring Light does not need to change to fix the problem. Players just need to realize that Restoring Light has quite a strong amount of healing capability and does not necessarily need to be paired with "that thing everyone else uses" to function well.

You got through the dungeon. That should be proof enough.

_______________________

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not even remotely trying to insinuate that the Restoring Light skill line is fine and balanced and in no need of changes. It probably does need some tweaking, maybe even heavily so. I wouldn't really know.

All I am saying is that the existence of the Restoring Light skill line should not result in Templar being the best healer class just because they have it. It should supplement healing, adding some additional flexibility to healing builds, not completely wreck everyone else on the healing meters.

timidobserver

likewow777 wrote: »

Templars need better healing:

It is clear from 1.6 that ZOS doesn't agree with this. That doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that ZOS has made clear that they want Templar healing less powerful. Taking that into consideration, I would be in favor of removing the garbage from restoring light and adding useful stuff. Remove all of the useless morphs and useless skills and replace them with utility/buffs or even dps skills. The Radiant Aura morph and Healing Ritual skill both need to be deleted.

Zsymon

I really hope they are working on making Templars more viable in all the roles. We had one single role where we were good, not that much better than the other classes, but definitely our healing tree gave us an edge when healing, not anymore. Now there is absolutely no reason to roll a Templar unless you are bent on being one for lore purposes.

Even that one upgrade to Biting Jabs we were going to get, was cut by 30% when the patch finally came out. As if an easily avoided and interruptible melee skill like that would suddenly make us unstoppable killing machines.

Mumyo

Backlash also decreases dps instead of pushing it. It has no use for stamina at all.

Fizzlewizzle

@Vandril
Could you please us all and write down the synergies Templars have with other skill trees and playstyles, since you seem to be so confident about them being able to do everything decent (besides healing).

timidobserver wrote: »

likewow777 wrote: »

Templars need better healing:

It is clear from 1.6 that ZOS doesn't agree with this. That doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that ZOS has made clear that they want Templar healing less powerful. Taking that into consideration, I would be in favor of removing the garbage from restoring light and adding useful stuff. Remove all of the useless morphs and useless skills and replace them with utility/buffs or even dps skills. The Radiant Aura morph and Healing Ritual skill both need to be deleted.

You do know that they boosted Healing Ritual by 70%?
I wouldn't see that as "ZOS not agreeing with with that Templar need better healing". Maybe its because they wanted to make the skill more useful... if thats the case then i would advise them to also increase the range drastic.

As someone that uses Healing Ritual as a main healing skill i can tell them this:
A Healing Ritual user draws a lot of agro because often they need to stand in the middle of the crowd to heal everyone. Since you have idiots out there that love running away from enemies (and thus run out of Healing Ritual range) you have to constantly walk after them (with a crowd of monsters swarming around you), causing them to run again...

You only have 5 meters on each side of you to heal people. An average "melee" range is already 5-8 meters, which means that they can stand outside the healing area while still being in melee range. If you have Ranged type players within your group this range grows greatly.
I'm not suggestion that HEaling Ritual needs to be 28M to each side of us (56M Total), but at least having a coverage range of 22-28M (total) would be needed to be able to stand between the Tank+Enemies and the (Long Ranged) Dps guys.

timidobserver

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Vandril
Could you please us all and write down the synergies Templars have with other skill trees and playstyles, since you seem to be so confident about them being able to do everything decent (besides healing).

timidobserver wrote: »

likewow777 wrote: »

Templars need better healing:

It is clear from 1.6 that ZOS doesn't agree with this. That doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that ZOS has made clear that they want Templar healing less powerful. Taking that into consideration, I would be in favor of removing the garbage from restoring light and adding useful stuff. Remove all of the useless morphs and useless skills and replace them with utility/buffs or even dps skills. The Radiant Aura morph and Healing Ritual skill both need to be deleted.

You do know that they boosted Healing Ritual by 70%?
I wouldn't see that as "ZOS not agreeing with with that Templar need better healing". Maybe its because they wanted to make the skill more useful... if thats the case then i would advise them to also increase the range drastic.

As someone that uses Healing Ritual as a main healing skill i can tell them this:
A Healing Ritual user draws a lot of agro because often they need to stand in the middle of the crowd to heal everyone. Since you have idiots out there that love running away from enemies (and thus run out of Healing Ritual range) you have to constantly walk after them (with a crowd of monsters swarming around you), causing them to run again...

You only have 5 meters on each side of you to heal people. An average "melee" range is already 5-8 meters, which means that they can stand outside the healing area while still being in melee range. If you have Ranged type players within your group this range grows greatly.
I'm not suggestion that HEaling Ritual needs to be 28M to each side of us (56M Total), but at least having a coverage range of 22-28M (total) would be needed to be able to stand between the Tank+Enemies and the (Long Ranged) Dps guys.

As long as it has a cast time it is garbage.

1. There are so many other things you could be doing for your group as opossed to standing in place channeling healing ritual. Dpsing, buffing, debuffing.
2. Two seconds is long enough for people to die. Your Vet DSA group would wipe regularly.
3. You can't block while channeling it as one hardheader healer learned a learned in Sanctum Ophidia group I was in shortly after 1.6 launched.

The skill is garbage. No tweaks. Replace it.

Fizzlewizzle

timidobserver wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@Vandril
Could you please us all and write down the synergies Templars have with other skill trees and playstyles, since you seem to be so confident about them being able to do everything decent (besides healing).

timidobserver wrote: »

likewow777 wrote: »

Templars need better healing:

It is clear from 1.6 that ZOS doesn't agree with this. That doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that ZOS has made clear that they want Templar healing less powerful. Taking that into consideration, I would be in favor of removing the garbage from restoring light and adding useful stuff. Remove all of the useless morphs and useless skills and replace them with utility/buffs or even dps skills. The Radiant Aura morph and Healing Ritual skill both need to be deleted.

You do know that they boosted Healing Ritual by 70%?
I wouldn't see that as "ZOS not agreeing with with that Templar need better healing". Maybe its because they wanted to make the skill more useful... if thats the case then i would advise them to also increase the range drastic.

As someone that uses Healing Ritual as a main healing skill i can tell them this:
A Healing Ritual user draws a lot of agro because often they need to stand in the middle of the crowd to heal everyone. Since you have idiots out there that love running away from enemies (and thus run out of Healing Ritual range) you have to constantly walk after them (with a crowd of monsters swarming around you), causing them to run again...

You only have 5 meters on each side of you to heal people. An average "melee" range is already 5-8 meters, which means that they can stand outside the healing area while still being in melee range. If you have Ranged type players within your group this range grows greatly.
I'm not suggestion that HEaling Ritual needs to be 28M to each side of us (56M Total), but at least having a coverage range of 22-28M (total) would be needed to be able to stand between the Tank+Enemies and the (Long Ranged) Dps guys.

As long as it has a cast time it is garbage.

1. There are so many other things you could be doing for your group as opossed to standing in place channeling healing ritual. Dpsing, buffing, debuffing.
2. Two seconds is long enough for people to die. Your Vet DSA group would wipe regularly.
3. You can't block while channeling it as one hardheader healer learned a learned in Sanctum Ophidia group I was in shortly after 1.6 launched.

The skill is garbage. No tweaks. Replace it.

I'm build for taking a hit, blocking or not.
But, that aside... what would you suggest for a Replacement? Saying that it should be replaced is easy, comming up with a decent idea is a bit harder.