Please give us target dummies

Jules

I know it's been said before, but can we please have target dummies? It would be absolutely invaluable to DPS. Of course we can test on mammoths but they die within 6-7 seconds. Sometimes sooner. That's not really a good indication of sustained DPS, that's all burst. We can use Bloodspawn in Spindle, but for one you can't do it alone and for two I've heard his spell resist is vastly different than trial bosses. A target dummy would have to be: something with a lot of health, adequate spell resist/armor so it's comparable to trial bosses, and minimal to no mechanics so it can be solo'd as a means of easily testing out abilities/rotations to compare and contrast them.

It would also have the option to be instanced so that there wouldn't be wait lines or people jumping in on the target as well. However if you wanted to test w another, perhaps bringing a healer who uses force siphon/combat prayer, or someone to use ele drain, just to see how those buffs affect you, that should be an option as well. These are just my thoughts, if anyone had anything to add feel free.

-Jules




@ZOS_GinaBruno

Lykurgis

I (and others) have asked many times. Eric Wrobel told us in TS they exist.
They use them for internal testing, just a matter of allowing US to use them.

I (and others) have been on a crusade to get them in game for quite a while...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1580833/#Comment_1580833

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1535285/#Comment_1535285

Islyn

Lykurgis wrote: »

I (and others) have asked many times. Eric Wrobel told us in TS they exist.
They use them for internal testing, just a matter of allowing US to use them.

I (and others) have been on a crusade to get them in game for quite a while...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1580833/#Comment_1580833

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1535285/#Comment_1535285

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Jules

Wow, I hadn't realized they were already in place internally! What! Do they understand how hasslesome it is to test things in the current state?

Jules

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Lol, I sincerely hope you're kidding about the SO guy. Only thing I can think of after trash and before manti is that one dude who chills between the two flaming statues when you first drop down into the room. & that guy dies in precisely 4 seconds.

Jules

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Unless you mean downstairs boss?

Lykurgis

Jules wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Unless you mean downstairs boss?

Shade of the Mantikora is ok to test on when you are actually running SO. Provided you reset your meter while waiting for tank/healer to drop down. Still, the whole point is there should be a mechanism in this game that is available to, keyword here: "individuals" for them to test gear/rotations/specs at their convenience. Seems like every other AAA MMO has them, why not ESO?

They use them internally, so they clearly see the need for them...

IMO, having to form a raid to get a decent DPS parse to go raid is silly and wrong. And with the new champion system adding yet another layer of abilities that need to be tested in various combinations, the need for Target Dummies is greater than ever before.

Islyn

Jules wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Lol, I sincerely hope you're kidding about the SO guy. Only thing I can think of after trash and before manti is that one dude who chills between the two flaming statues when you first drop down into the room. & that guy dies in precisely 4 seconds.

You go with just yourself and a healer but no dps buffs and kill him. Takes 30-40 seconds to a minute iirc (i would have to double check my screenshots for time but yeah). Some go with a tank and themselves.

Jules

Lykurgis wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Unless you mean downstairs boss?

Shade of the Mantikora is ok to test on when you are actually running SO. Provided you reset your meter while waiting for tank/healer to drop down. Still, the whole point is there should be a mechanism in this game that is available to, keyword here: "individuals" for them to test gear/rotations/specs at their convenience. Seems like every other AAA MMO has them, why not ESO?

They use them internally, so they clearly see the need for them...

IMO, having to form a raid to get a decent DPS parse to go raid is silly and wrong. And with the new champion system adding yet another layer of abilities that need to be tested in various combinations, the need for Target Dummies is greater than ever before.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Obviously I want to test out rotations and changes in morphs ect so that I can successfully DPS during raid.

What I'm finding is that I can only test things in 4 mans or against actual bosses when I'm in actual raid. The thing is, this isn't very fair to my group or to me. I want to be able to pause, evaluate, edit this, swap that, test again and improve. That is not possible in a raid of 12 people for obvious reasons.

The need for target dummies is so that I don't have to be with anyone else and I can improve and edit in the mean time. As DPS we need to perpetually pushing the numbers. 16k is not the cap, 20k is not the cap. We will never know how good we can really be unless we have a mechanism to aid us in our tests.

Jules

Islyn wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Lol, I sincerely hope you're kidding about the SO guy. Only thing I can think of after trash and before manti is that one dude who chills between the two flaming statues when you first drop down into the room. & that guy dies in precisely 4 seconds.

You go with just yourself and a healer but no dps buffs and kill him. Takes 30-40 seconds iirc. Some go with a tank and themselves.

Oh okay. Yeah I'll give it a try, thx

Lykurgis

Jules wrote: »

The thing is, this isn't very fair to my group or to me. I want to be able to pause, evaluate, edit this, swap that, test again and improve.

This has been my chief concern from Day 1.

As casual as ESO is, we still shouldn't have to endure an endless loop of: "LFG Bloodspawn for DPS testing".

They should at least accommodate us with the tools every other MMO has...

And as an upside for them, better testing tools (target dummies) will help get flaws exposed and sorted faster through rigorous player testing *cough* nirnhoned *cough* sharpened *cough* light armor passives...and so on and so on and so on....

Islyn

Jules wrote: »

Lykurgis wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Meanwhile you can use bloodspawn or the first mini boss after trash but before Manti in SO :-)

Unless you mean downstairs boss?

Shade of the Mantikora is ok to test on when you are actually running SO. Provided you reset your meter while waiting for tank/healer to drop down. Still, the whole point is there should be a mechanism in this game that is available to, keyword here: "individuals" for them to test gear/rotations/specs at their convenience. Seems like every other AAA MMO has them, why not ESO?

They use them internally, so they clearly see the need for them...

IMO, having to form a raid to get a decent DPS parse to go raid is silly and wrong. And with the new champion system adding yet another layer of abilities that need to be tested in various combinations, the need for Target Dummies is greater than ever before.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Obviously I want to test out rotations and changes in morphs ect so that I can successfully DPS during raid.

What I'm finding is that I can only test things in 4 mans or against actual bosses when I'm in actual raid. The thing is, this isn't very fair to my group or to me. I want to be able to pause, evaluate, edit this, swap that, test again and improve. That is not possible in a raid of 12 people for obvious reasons.

The need for target dummies is so that I don't have to be with anyone else and I can improve and edit in the mean time. As DPS we need to perpetually pushing the numbers. 16k is not the cap, 20k is not the cap. We will never know how good we can really be unless we have a mechanism to aid us in our tests.

Yeah I don't disagree - I was just saying in the meanwhile...

Jules

Islyn wrote: »

Yeah I don't disagree - I was just saying in the meanwhile...

Yeah, I understand what you mean now. In the meantime those are our options.

Vizier

There are target dummies in Cyrodiil you can use. They are near your starter area.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Target dummies are extremely usefull for testing gear, rotation and for any kind of training. Passive target is invaluable for those purposes. I dont see reason why ZOS is so inert in that regard specially if they have dummies as solution already. Let me put dummies in context - if dummies are feature of 1.6 for me that one would be best feature of that patch.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Why are people asking for dummies .. you got town guards that hit back, giving you even more realistic training.

Jules

Vizier wrote: »

There are target dummies in Cyrodiil you can use. They are near your starter area.

Wait what? Do they take damage and have high health?

Fruitdog

Jules wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

There are target dummies in Cyrodiil you can use. They are near your starter area.

Wait what? Do they take damage and have high health?

no, the die after 1 light attack

Jules

Fruitdog wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

There are target dummies in Cyrodiil you can use. They are near your starter area.

Wait what? Do they take damage and have high health?

no, the die after 1 light attack

Tsss. How useful.

Mumnoch

If they released practice dummies to us they would quickly be called out for the discrepancies a lot of us are already complaining about. The biggest difference being that they would have less of the player-base arguing for them. Thus, I don't think this will ever happen (no one likes to be called to the carpet on things they "supposedly" fixed/balanced).

azoriangaming

we need dummies or we'll kick, scream and cry all night long

DeLindsay

Don't worry ZoS will come up with some fantastical reason as to why it's impossible to add Target Dummies for Player use, Player Duels, daily item withdrawal limits for GB Ranks, multiple Costume slots, multiple specs, etc (all things most MMO's have from launch) in that new segment they're adding to the Live Stream where they explain why certain things can't be done that Players want in ESO.

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

we need dummies or we'll kick, scream and cry all night long

We've been kicking, screaming and crying about this topic for a year now, doesn't seem to work on ZoS. They must all have more than 1 child, as it's well known Parents become immune to kids' temper tantrums after their 2nd one

Mumnoch wrote: »

If they released practice dummies to us they would quickly be called out for the discrepancies a lot of us are already complaining about. The biggest difference being that they would have less of the player-base arguing for them. Thus, I don't think this will ever happen (no one likes to be called to the carpet on things they "supposedly" fixed/balanced).

This is probably THE actual reason why we don't have Target Dummies for Player use and Player Duels as well as complete transparency about game and combat stats like most MMO's have, sad to say.

Jules

Mumnoch wrote: »

If they released practice dummies to us they would quickly be called out for the discrepancies a lot of us are already complaining about. The biggest difference being that they would have less of the player-base arguing for them. Thus, I don't think this will ever happen (no one likes to be called to the carpet on things they "supposedly" fixed/balanced).

Yes, this x1000. However what they fail to recognize is that by giving us target dummies they also give us the power to HELP them. It would give the community a constant to measure everything against. Skills bugging out- tested on target dummy - reported w screenshots- they then have the tools/evidence to make real change. They can use their manpower on tweaking/developing and enlist the player base to help with the actual testing. So many people would be so forthright and helpful if they just gave us the ability to do so.

Khivas_Carrick

Jules wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

If they released practice dummies to us they would quickly be called out for the discrepancies a lot of us are already complaining about. The biggest difference being that they would have less of the player-base arguing for them. Thus, I don't think this will ever happen (no one likes to be called to the carpet on things they "supposedly" fixed/balanced).

Yes, this x1000. However what they fail to recognize is that by giving us target dummies they also give us the power to HELP them. It would give the community a constant to measure everything against. Skills bugging out- tested on target dummy - reported w screenshots- they then have the tools/evidence to make real change. They can use their manpower on tweaking/developing and enlist the player base to help with the actual testing. So many people would be so forthright and helpful if they just gave us the ability to do so.

Seriously, @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and anyone else at @ZoS, this is not a hard or bad concept to grasp. Give us some love here.

Austin.Swiftb14_ESO

Jules wrote: »

Yes, this x1000. However what they fail to recognize is that by giving us target dummies they also give us the power to HELP them. It would give the community a constant to measure everything against. Skills bugging out- tested on target dummy - reported w screenshots- they then have the tools/evidence to make real change. They can use their manpower on tweaking/developing and enlist the player base to help with the actual testing. So many people would be so forthright and helpful if they just gave us the ability to do so.

I can not agree more with this statement.Target dummies would be a perfect test for bugged skills. Seriously @ZOS_GinaBruno we need this.

Artemiisia

in another mmo, they are actually in the crown store, so im thinking its something they probably planing at one point to put in as well, since they are money makers

skarvika

Yes please!

Jules

Artemiisia wrote: »

in another mmo, they are actually in the crown store, so im thinking its something they probably planing at one point to put in as well, since they are money makers

Yeah but that would be pretty messed up. Making us pay for something they should've already implemented.