10k+ dmg critical charge, 10k+ dmg wrecking blow, 10k+ dmg executioner

Baphomet

Can someone please provide an objective reasoning as to why this is considered balanced - without drawing the double-dip stamina card because we all know that excuse is moot as things are right now ;-)

@ZoS - you wanna have a go first?

TheLaw

They over-buffed stamina because people complained about it for months. That's about it. I don't seem them balancing it for awhile.

Domander

I crit someone for 20k with crystal frags (empowered, and not nirnhoned)

I've been crit for 14k with snipe

I don't see the point of this thread except wear more armor, or try to block attacks you can see coming. (First 2 are, 3rd is execute.)

Hutuldur

Use armor? Block? Damage shield?

If you are just standing there dancing, those should hurt

Kahrgan

Baphomet wrote: »

Can someone please provide an objective reasoning as to why this is considered balanced - without drawing the double-dip stamina card because we all know that excuse is moot as things are right now ;-)

@ZoS - you wanna have a go first?

Easy: It's called blocking.

You see OP, you are the problem with PVP. You think because something killed you, that its a design problem, instead of you not playing well.

LameoveR

L2P it's called.
Recently was a thread about "3 of us was killed by 1 sorc, nerf it now and forever!"
Here is so much threads about "nerf it, it's OP!".

Zsymon

You can block those and mitigate most of the damage even when wielding a staff. If you die too often I suggest wearing more heavy armor. A sorcerer spellcaster I know wears full heavy armor and is very successful with it in pvp, easily killing multiple enemies on his own.

When you allow yourself to get hammered by heavy hitting skills, you will obviously die, the point of blocking and dodging and shielding and healing is there to avoid dying. Wrecking Blow for example is very easily blocked since it needs to charge up, no one should ever allow themselves to be hit with Wrecking Blow unless they're out of stamina or it's unexpected against multiple enemies. If you watch 2 handed fights against good enemies you'll notice they never get in a single Wrecking Blow until they've driven the target out of stamina.

That's personally why I like Biting Jabs, if they block that they'll be out of stamina in two or three casts of it, and with a Burning Light proc it hits just as hard as Wrecking Blow.

nothing2591

i crit 41k sneak attack wrecking blow in pve but only 11k in pvp so you should be happy xD thats on light armor, heavy armor matters alot 12k armor vs 5k makes so much difference and this is coming from a stamina nightblade with 100+ hours pvping at max lvl

Aimelin

Zsymon wrote: »

You can block those and mitigate most of the damage even when wielding a staff. If you die too often I suggest wearing more heavy armor. A sorcerer spellcaster I know wears full heavy armor and is very successful with it in pvp, easily killing multiple enemies on his own.

When you allow yourself to get hammered by heavy hitting skills, you will obviously die, the point of blocking and dodging and shielding and healing is there to avoid dying. Wrecking Blow for example is very easily blocked since it needs to charge up, no one should ever allow themselves to be hit with Wrecking Blow unless they're out of stamina or it's unexpected against multiple enemies. If you watch 2 handed fights against good enemies you'll notice they never get in a single Wrecking Blow until they've driven the target out of stamina.

That's personally why I like Biting Jabs, if they block that they'll be out of stamina in two or three casts of it, and with a Burning Light proc it hits just as hard as Wrecking Blow.

so in order to maximize my healing i go for light armor(cost reduction + regen) hence im magicka based ... more magicka = more healing, but results in less stam ...
less stam results in i can only block and or dodge roll wrecking blow twice, maybe 3 times, while he's button mashing that wrecking blow button and also getting in heavy attacks in between due to weaving.

Now according to you to "mitigate" that i need to be less usefull to my grp healing wise and equip heavy armor thus forsaking cost reduction and regen, but also healing power, because someone had the "brilliant" idea to make wrecking blow uninterruptable.

If it's so "easely" mitigated as you say, let them revert it back to being interruptable, as surely it can be easely cast as you claim it can be dodged under the condition it can be bashed.

david_m_18b16_ESO

PvP isn't all about zerging more then the other zerg in this game ?

Kypho

13k fragment, 9k curse, 9k per mine. etc. +übershield spaming streakspam. Guess what is that tank+best dmg dealer class in pvp?

10k critical charge means at max or almost at max range. your char stop moving while it last, so you are aware that it comes at you, and you have plenty time to push your block button, even if its at the other end of your room, or just roll away. You can even use streak to stun the charger, or do to him 13k fragment and stun him.
WB... i got hit from 2 WB. i see when it comes, since its close range and obv. windup.
Executioner 10k hit..... never happend. i would tell you, that your lighting does 10k easy dmg but exec only max 7k. not speaking of overload 9k LIGHT ATTACK.....

Kypho

Aimelin wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You can block those and mitigate most of the damage even when wielding a staff. If you die too often I suggest wearing more heavy armor. A sorcerer spellcaster I know wears full heavy armor and is very successful with it in pvp, easily killing multiple enemies on his own.

When you allow yourself to get hammered by heavy hitting skills, you will obviously die, the point of blocking and dodging and shielding and healing is there to avoid dying. Wrecking Blow for example is very easily blocked since it needs to charge up, no one should ever allow themselves to be hit with Wrecking Blow unless they're out of stamina or it's unexpected against multiple enemies. If you watch 2 handed fights against good enemies you'll notice they never get in a single Wrecking Blow until they've driven the target out of stamina.

That's personally why I like Biting Jabs, if they block that they'll be out of stamina in two or three casts of it, and with a Burning Light proc it hits just as hard as Wrecking Blow.

so in order to maximize my healing i go for light armor(cost reduction + regen) hence im magicka based ... more magicka = more healing, but results in less stam ...
less stam results in i can only block and or dodge roll wrecking blow twice, maybe 3 times, while he's button mashing that wrecking blow button and also getting in heavy attacks in between due to weaving.

Now according to you to "mitigate" that i need to be less usefull to my grp healing wise and equip heavy armor thus forsaking cost reduction and regen, but also healing power, because someone had the "brilliant" idea to make wrecking blow uninterruptable.

If it's so "easely" mitigated as you say, let them revert it back to being interruptable, as surely it can be easely cast as you claim it can be dodged under the condition it can be bashed.

What class are you? Lets say you are sorc. what you do? spam shield, and streak. Streak will stun the WB and you can spam him with 3 your abilities, what will kill a 30k HP opponent before he breaks stun. Sorcs....

Soris

Lol @ l2p, block, wear heavy armor comments.

I have like 20k armor and spell resist when my buffs on with heavy armor and still eating 10k hits from any heavy hitting skills
And I have 25k health which is considered above average health.
We don't play same game I suppose. Or you love instagib people and ignore everything else beyond that.

Arki

Kypho wrote: »

13k fragment, 9k curse, 9k per mine. etc. +übershield spaming streakspam. Guess what is that tank+best dmg dealer class in pvp?

10k critical charge means at max or almost at max range. your char stop moving while it last, so you are aware that it comes at you, and you have plenty time to push your block button, even if its at the other end of your room, or just roll away. You can even use streak to stun the charger, or do to him 13k fragment and stun him.
WB... i got hit from 2 WB. i see when it comes, since its close range and obv. windup.
Executioner 10k hit..... never happend. i would tell you, that your lighting does 10k easy dmg but exec only max 7k. not speaking of overload 9k LIGHT ATTACK.....

We get it, you think sorcs are OP, but do every thread about pvp have to be derailed because of that? There are other topics in here you know, like the one in this thread right here...

On topic: It's ok, there are counters to it as other posts have mentioned.

EDIT: Remember when crit charge stunned you? That was prob a bit OP, because it gave no escape from the incoming WB+Execute ^^

kijima

Y u no block?

Tankqull

kijima wrote: »

Y u no block?

only once than i´m out of stam as a LA wearer with buggy WB eating 2-3 times stamina per attack as every component(dmg, knockback, stun) is draining stam on its own...

Deviante

Id rather be killed by this than by 3 overload light attacks for 11.5k each

david_m_18b16_ESO

If you guys think that magika user should wear plate just to negate your damage do you agree that stam user should wear light armor in order to boost there resistance to survive the caster spells ?

Vandril

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

If you guys think that magika user should wear plate just to negate your damage do you agree that stam user should wear light armor in order to boost there resistance to survive the caster spells ?

Yes, I do.

I think it's fairly stupid that Armor = Spell Resist from armor, making MA > LA in that regard. LA should have more Spell Resistance. Heavy should have Armor and Spell Resistance which fairly surpasses LA's Spell Resistance and MA's Armor. MA should have Armor slightly lower than HA, and slightly lower Spell Resistance than Light Armor. For comparisons sake...

Comparative ratings from 1-10.

LA - 3 Armor, 8 Spell Resistance
MA - 8 Armor, 3 Spell Resistance
HA - 10 Armor, 10 Spell Resistance

There. Done. Defenses amongst armor types are balanced. If you want all-around defense, you should need to wear Heavy Armor. It's as simple a balance as could possibly be.

Xallus

Baphomet wrote: »

Can someone please provide an objective reasoning as to why this is considered balanced - without drawing the double-dip stamina card because we all know that excuse is moot as things are right now ;-)

@ZoS - you wanna have a go first?

It's balanced because you can block, even people with minimum stamina have enough for a break and multiple blocks. And while it's possible to get 2 shot from stealth with the 2h gank builds... they're a 1 trick pony. Also, pvp is balanced in part around the typical goings-on in Cyrodil... and Cyrodil doesn't care that you got 1 or 2 shot from stealth, because that guy is about to get wrecked, you get resurrected, and the siege goes on.

Ashanne

You can block? you can roll dodge? what a joke...
you can spam WB for how many minutes continuously? How many times can we block? How many times can we rolldodge? We roll doge only for you to crit charge us and get back to your spamming WB

I took a WB while roll dodging from the first floor of a keep wall only to get by it when I landed ..ROLL DODGE .. BLOCK...ARE U PEOPLE I****TS OR JUST DEFENDING YOUR S***....

why is there an channeling ability uninterruptable? ONLY one channeling ability uninterruptable...imagine if sorcs would get their crystal fragments uninterruptable or dark flare/snipe/RD ...that would mean equality and balance...same with sorcs shield based on magika not health as any other class shields and yea give poor nb's a f*** class shield... but hey...WELCOME TO BETA 2 (now free)



this is a copy paste post from the sorcs post...replace shield stack with WB...*we are not op cuz we have 15k of health and 20k shields don't count as health and dps of 10k and we can travel Cyrodiil faster than lighting *
its a copy paste from DKs defending themselves a year ago...


THIS IS HAS BECOME JOKE

Xallus

If someone's spamming WB... and you can't get away after a block, I'm speechless. Insult to injury is your defense seems to be coming from a Sorc point of view... block and bolt?

I occasionally play around with 2h on my NB, the 1/2/3 shots are fun, but like I said it's a 1 trick pony, and only really works on unsuspecting players or really bad players. DW is more reliable and versatile imo. I also have a sorc, and unless I'm staring at my map or AFK, I'm shielded and 2h assailants are the lulz. Even if I can't beat them... I just leave.

Liquidus

There should be a general rule.. If you want to complain about damage blah blah , post a screen shot..

If you want to counter whin , post screen shot..



I was killed by a fish THIS BIG..


BTW , some of the attacks now are redonk..

Joy_Division

Objective reasons the OP will probably ignore given his/her tone:

1. Wrecking Blow and Crystal Shard have the SAME damage coefficient: 0.149653471 This means that, all things being equal, they will do the SAME damage. Both have the disadvantage of a cast time. But, Crystal shards can be instant cast (for less cost and more damage!) whereas Wrecking blow cannot and can be cast from 28 meters whereas wrecking blow has a 7 meter range.

2. Executioner is an execute. It is designed to do that much damage and is comparable to other executes. If anything, I personally find executioner the least versatile of the executes because it requires the user to be in melee range with the target.

3. I have not seen 10k damage from a critical rush on my damage screen and I wear 7 pieces of light armor so you are just making that number up or conflating it with the two other abilities that are designed to be high-damaging. As far as the Critical Rush skill itself is concerned, I'd *much* rather get his with this than the other gap-closers such as Invasion and Toppling Charge because these will knock my ass down to the ground and stun me. And it's not even close.

Khivas_Carrick

Aimelin wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You can block those and mitigate most of the damage even when wielding a staff. If you die too often I suggest wearing more heavy armor. A sorcerer spellcaster I know wears full heavy armor and is very successful with it in pvp, easily killing multiple enemies on his own.

When you allow yourself to get hammered by heavy hitting skills, you will obviously die, the point of blocking and dodging and shielding and healing is there to avoid dying. Wrecking Blow for example is very easily blocked since it needs to charge up, no one should ever allow themselves to be hit with Wrecking Blow unless they're out of stamina or it's unexpected against multiple enemies. If you watch 2 handed fights against good enemies you'll notice they never get in a single Wrecking Blow until they've driven the target out of stamina.

That's personally why I like Biting Jabs, if they block that they'll be out of stamina in two or three casts of it, and with a Burning Light proc it hits just as hard as Wrecking Blow.

so in order to maximize my healing i go for light armor(cost reduction + regen) hence im magicka based ... more magicka = more healing, but results in less stam ...
less stam results in i can only block and or dodge roll wrecking blow twice, maybe 3 times, while he's button mashing that wrecking blow button and also getting in heavy attacks in between due to weaving.

Now according to you to "mitigate" that i need to be less usefull to my grp healing wise and equip heavy armor thus forsaking cost reduction and regen, but also healing power, because someone had the "brilliant" idea to make wrecking blow uninterruptable.

If it's so "easely" mitigated as you say, let them revert it back to being interruptable, as surely it can be easely cast as you claim it can be dodged under the condition it can be bashed.

Yes actually, you do, that or equip a damage shield because PvP isn't the same as gearing for PvE. Your job isn't so much to optimize yourself to heal the best, but to ensure you and your allies outlast your enemy. Having lots of Magicka and skill reduction is cool and all, but being as soft as wet tissue paper is not, thus heavy armor mixing is a good go-to fix for dying, that or a shield.

Davadin

Liquidus wrote: »

There should be a general rule.. If you want to complain about damage blah blah , post a screen shot..

If you want to counter whin , post screen shot..



I was killed by a fish THIS BIG..


BTW , some of the attacks now are redonk..

its common knowledge already. go over to PvP forum. Snipe goes around 9k - 14k. Fragment is at least 10k.

I'm VR13 with green armor and I stealth-crit 26k on VR10 NPC. On VR14 players in Cyro, i can get 4-8k crit, while stealthed i can almost pull 15k.

at least those sorc/archer don't have to cover the distance.... which, well, usually undo stealth crit and put themselves in virtual danger.

no issue here. thread should be close.

Baphomet

He he, gotta love the incapability to analyse information on these forums. I think most people know how to block, dodge-roll and so forth, so why waste our time with those tedious semantics?

The point, which seems more elusive that I would have though, is the questioning of the reasoning behind setting the game up so that people can spec characters to execute a series of attacks which all have the capability to deal 10k+ dmg and then compare it to the resource pools available to people.

It isn't about the feats per se, but more on the subject of how the game is now set up with feats + gear + resource management.

Stamina in general was buffed a little too much, stamina gear is superior to their magicka counterparts, and without caps no better balance has been achieved. It is just skrewed in a different way now.

Cinbri

Baphomet wrote: »

He he, gotta love the incapability to analyse information on these forums. I think most people know how to block, dodge-roll and so forth, so why waste our time with those tedious semantics?

The point, which seems more elusive that I would have though, is the questioning of the reasoning behind setting the game up so that people can spec characters to execute a series of attacks which all have the capability to deal 10k+ dmg and then compare it to the resource pools available to people.

It isn't about the feats per se, but more on the subject of how the game is now set up with feats + gear + resource management.

Stamina in general was buffed a little too much, stamina gear is superior to their magicka counterparts, and without caps no better balance has been achieved. It is just skrewed in a different way now.

At least someone understand what he is talking about.