Help Me Kill Sorcs

ScruffyWhiskers

So I am tired of getting killed by sorcs. It usually goes like this. I jump a sorc and burst as hard as I can only to end up out of magicka. My last one went like this in a space of about 10 secs

3938 Damage Hardened Ward Teleport Strike
3086 Damage Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light attack
Shadowy Disguise
4555 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light Attack
3644 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
3152 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light Attack
2953 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
3152 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
Fear - he might have been just out of reach....damn bolty sorcs
3152 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
559 Hardened Ward Light Attack
Shadowy Disguise
6496 Hardened Ward Soul Harvest
3934 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon

Out of Magicka switch to restro staff Heavy Attack at range
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff

I take 11,276 and am dead. I had taken damage here and there before but never more than 2 or 3k a pop.

So obviously you cannot burst down a sorcs shields. I have been trying like an idiot to do this for months. So anybody have any good strategies that wouldn't require me to completely change my burst build?

Pancake-Tragedy

i think that was me, i remember your name. If so, sorry, i just press buttons and things happen.

ScruffyWhiskers

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

i think that was me, i remember your name. If so, sorry, i just press buttons and things happen.

Ha! Yes, you smeared the floor with me. Did the fear hit you at all? You must be pushing the buttons perfectly because I could never find a hole in those shields. It really was a tragedy. What did you kill me with if you don't mind me asking.

Pancake-Tragedy

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

i think that was me, i remember your name. If so, sorry, i just press buttons and things happen.

Ha! Yes, you smeared the floor with me. Did the fear hit you at all? You must be pushing the buttons perfectly because I could never find a hole in those shields. It really was a tragedy. What did you kill me with if you don't mind me asking.

Well, I have my Hardened ward on my main dps bar so I can keep it up as often as I notice it goes down. I did get the fear, but I've gotten into a habit of streaking away as soon as I break it. You had the right idea, drain the sorcs stamina and you will have free reign to drop CC on them.

As for what I killed you with...it really comes down to timing my burst. Wait for my frags to pop, notice when block isn't up, charge a heavy attack + crushing shock animation cancel then throw the frag. Huge burst when it goes off right

Teargrants

I would tell you how, but it goes against my religion.

Erock25

My downfall as a sorc who has a similar play style to pancake is when I run out of stamina and get CC 'd without maximum shields up. I always run out of stamina too as I don't chug tripots.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

so long as your not calling for a moronic sorc nerf, then you can kill me if you need to conduct some damage research, honestly ive been wondering about my dps output and defense value's since the update.

Rylana

Big magicka pool + good magicka regen + cost reduction enchants + spamming the hell out of hardened ward = LOL

Chances are good, however, that sorc has a thin stamina pool. Try to force some knockdowns/cc breaks and see how that goes. Good chance hes gonna have to bail after 2 or 3 because you just made him vulnerable.

Then again I sorta know this player on the field, and thats the experience I have had vs him. Hard as hell to wear down directly, but the moment im on my dk popping talons and shield charges on him he has to bail out. =D

Youd get much the same result vs my sorc actually.

That being said, the same magicka spamming build that can tank all that damage, can also run away a bit too good >=/

umagon

You might want to look at using defensive stance, and methods of burning their magicka/stam.

Armitas

Anyone tried destructive mage set plus mage light? Bet that makes a huge freaking shield with sorcs scaling off magicka for shields.

As a DK I kind of feel like the global 15% shield nerf was a little too global if you know what I mean. My shields are based on health so if I boost them my dps goes down. A sorc can boost their shield and dps simultaneously. Light armor is complete crap making shields our only means of defense and it's globally nerfed.

Lets face it the global Cyrodiil nerf was a bandaid to push 1.6 out but it really seems too disproportionate to be so global.

Snit

The easiest method is the simplest: Crit Charge, then repeat Wrecking Blow until dead. Lethal Arrow spam will usually work all by itself, too. Dual Wield is definitely less capable than either of those weapons.

If the sorc has truly beefy shields, then you can exploit their weakness in stamina.

I'd also note that, if a sorc is specced for shields (magicka, regen, cost reduction), then he's not stacking much spell power. Magicka helps somewhat with damage. Spellpower helps a lot more (but does nothing for your shields). There are some tradeoffs.

eliisra

You can't burst down a good sorcerer as a magicka NB in 1.6.5 lol. It's not possible after recent nerfs. Lost gap closer, lost sneak dmg on magicka class skills and light armor being bad in general. If you want burst you're forced to use a stamina build.

Not saying that you cant beat a sorcerer as a magicka built NB. In a 1v1 dragged out duel you can obviously win by spamming similar tools like Harness Magicka and Healing Ward to absorb all the sorcerers spells. Strife to self heal more, than something to drain the sorcerer stamina like Shades and Fear. But mele magicka NB, assassin types, are utter crap now. Doubt you can even burst down a mudcrab.

Snit

eliisra wrote: »

If you want burst you're forced to use a stamina build.

I play a magicka sorc, and almost all of my 1.6 deaths have been to 2H or Bow builds (if I exclude all the "lol you got zerged" deaths). They're the dangerous ones.

Also, think ahead to when people have 360 CP. Stamina builds can have nearly unlimited dodge roll + the Tactician passive (dodging an attack sets opponent off balance). They'll be essentially immune to visible projectiles. So, if you haven't hopped on the stam-wagon yet, at least start saving some gear for it. Everyone who isn't a healer may be stam-based next year

Ezareth

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So I am tired of getting killed by sorcs. It usually goes like this. I jump a sorc and burst as hard as I can only to end up out of magicka. My last one went like this in a space of about 10 secs

3938 Damage Hardened Ward Teleport Strike
3086 Damage Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light attack
Shadowy Disguise
4555 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light Attack
3644 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
3152 Harness Magicka Concealed Weapon
834 Hardened Ward Light Attack
2953 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
3152 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
Fear - he might have been just out of reach....damn bolty sorcs
3152 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon
559 Hardened Ward Light Attack
Shadowy Disguise
6496 Hardened Ward Soul Harvest
3934 Hardened Ward Concealed Weapon

Out of Magicka switch to restro staff Heavy Attack at range
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff
1317 Hardened Ward Heavy Attack Staff

I take 11,276 and am dead. I had taken damage here and there before but never more than 2 or 3k a pop.

So obviously you cannot burst down a sorcs shields. I have been trying like an idiot to do this for months. So anybody have any good strategies that wouldn't require me to completely change my burst build?

In a 1 v 1 you're going to die every time trying to break a sorc's shields and kill him. The only way you'll kill a Sorc is to drain him of stamina. Watch the glowing circles at the sorc's feet, once those are gone, fear him (and actually hit him with it), then play defensively and roll around like a barrel full of monkeys until those circles are gone then fear him again. Each time you successfully fear him attack *hard* forcing him to break free or die. Once he doesn't have the stamina to break free it is GG sorc.

There are a lot of other things both sides can do here but that is the basic gist of it.

Or you can just go bow spec and spam lethal arrow until he falls over.

Armitas wrote: »

Anyone tried destructive mage set plus mage light? Bet that makes a huge freaking shield with sorcs scaling off magicka for shields.

As a DK I kind of feel like the global 15% shield nerf was a little too global if you know what I mean. My shields are based on health so if I boost them my dps goes down. A sorc can boost their shield and dps simultaneously. Light armor is complete crap making shields our only means of defense and it's globally nerfed.

Lets face it the global Cyrodiil nerf was a bandaid to push 1.6 out but it really seems too disproportionate to be so global.

Sorc shield boosting comes at the cost of health. 1.6 tried to force many people *not* to wear light armor.

Most people feel much squishier mainly because the 40% Health stat nerf. (What used to be +50% is now only +10%).

ScruffyWhiskers

Thanks for the feedback and help. I want to stay magicka melee and I don't want to be in prolonged duels where resource management is important. So basically, I'm going to have to just avoid 1 v 1 's or at least keep on running a lot.

What would really be nice is some ultimate or morph that pierced shields or had a bonus against shields. That would definitely make things a lot more interesting.

Teargrants

Everything has bonus against shields, shields have 0 armor and 0 spell resist.

Francescolg

Ezareth wrote: »

Most people feel much squishier mainly because the 40% Health stat nerf. (What used to be +50% is now only +10%).

The HP nurf + the 15% shield nurf combined result in a much stronger shield nurf, as is the case for templar's 26% blazing shield. A blazing shield under 800 isn't even worth casting in pvp.

Does hardened ward have a base-def value or is it based on hp?

Ezareth

Francescolg wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Most people feel much squishier mainly because the 40% Health stat nerf. (What used to be +50% is now only +10%).

The HP nurf + the 15% shield nurf combined result in a much stronger shield nurf, as is the case for templar's 26% blazing shield. A blazing shield under 800 isn't even worth casting in pvp.

Does hardened ward have a base-def value or is it based on hp?

It is based on Magicka and is increased by 33% then your Bastion Champion Level, then reduced by 15%.

Francescolg

So, basically, Hardened Ward is the best shield in the game now and it's pretty easy to get 2500 - 3200 magicka now

Devs should make it a shield based on HP, but that is just my opinion.

Francescolg

sorry double post

Ezareth

Francescolg wrote: »

So, basically, Hardened Ward is the best shield in the game now and it's pretty easy to get 2500 - 3200 magicka now

Devs should make it a shield based on HP, but that is just my opinion.

Actually Dampen Magick with full Light Armor is much better, but only absorbs spells.

Damage Shields are the tradeoff to have no hitpoints and armor that isn't armor.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Observant

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Both.

Bad sorcerers are bad.
Good sorcerers are good. Very good. Definitely not underpowered

Rylana

Observant wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Both.

Bad sorcerers are bad.
Good sorcerers are good. Very good. Definitely not underpowered

A well played sorc is usually the difference maker in any engagement. But I find the sorcs that actually are the difference makers are few and far between and are not the solo build types that most people identify with.

Mad respect for guys like Ezareth and Teargrants, for they are absolutely lethal out there if youre caught by yourself, but in group play (in my experience only, mind) they can be mostly ignored. Its the ones that set up streak/negate area denial and so on that I am referring to. For as much as I razz on Crystalized being the most killed player by me, I have to mention he is also the most dangerous sorc I know of, because whenever he shows up you know you have less than 2 seconds before a group of nasty is about to smash into you and your group with him setting it up for them to come through. (He as an individual is incredibly easy to kill, but the role he brings to his group more than makes up for that, is what I mean. Same is true for most group-play specs really)

A skilled group play sorc can absolutely be the one and only cause of an organized group wiping. Ive done it, and ive been the victim of it.

That being said, sorc as a class is quite difficult to play well nowadays having gone through in my estimation the most massive change from what they were at launch. Used to be very flexible and able to fill multiple on demand roles with just some minor gear/skill changes. Now the class is getting more and more relegated to niche one-job roles and it kinda sucks.

Septimus_Magna

Francescolg wrote: »

So, basically, Hardened Ward is the best shield in the game now and it's pretty easy to get 2500 - 3200 magicka now

Devs should make it a shield based on HP, but that is just my opinion.

The problem with the light armor nerf is that sorcs need a shield in dungeons and trials, making it scale off health would decrease the effectiveness (sorcs often have more magicka than health) and make sorcs even more squishy.

Joy_Division

As other posters have suggested do not attack the sorceror's shields, attack their stamina pool.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

As other posters have suggested do not attack the sorceror's shields, attack their stamina pool.

QFT. Not that I'm looking to give anyone help in killing me, but my stamina pool is by far the weakest in PvP. I really only use it for break free and rely on Boundless Storm and Streak for mobility.

Erock25

Rylana wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Both.

Bad sorcerers are bad.
Good sorcerers are good. Very good. Definitely not underpowered

A well played sorc is usually the difference maker in any engagement. But I find the sorcs that actually are the difference makers are few and far between and are not the solo build types that most people identify with.

Mad respect for guys like Ezareth and Teargrants, for they are absolutely lethal out there if youre caught by yourself, but in group play (in my experience only, mind) they can be mostly ignored. Its the ones that set up streak/negate area denial and so on that I am referring to. For as much as I razz on Crystalized being the most killed player by me, I have to mention he is also the most dangerous sorc I know of, because whenever he shows up you know you have less than 2 seconds before a group of nasty is about to smash into you and your group with him setting it up for them to come through. (He as an individual is incredibly easy to kill, but the role he brings to his group more than makes up for that, is what I mean. Same is true for most group-play specs really)

A skilled group play sorc can absolutely be the one and only cause of an organized group wiping. Ive done it, and ive been the victim of it.

That being said, sorc as a class is quite difficult to play well nowadays having gone through in my estimation the most massive change from what they were at launch. Used to be very flexible and able to fill multiple on demand roles with just some minor gear/skill changes. Now the class is getting more and more relegated to niche one-job roles and it kinda sucks.

@Rylana I understand if you don't want to give away your own guild's strategy, but I'm curious just what type of gameplay these group oriented Sorcs are doing. Do you still find Streak to be useful in 1.6 now that it gives CC immunity? I still find Negate to be fairly powerful even with the 1.6 nerfs, but I'm wondering what else a group Sorc brings to PVP. Is his job just to Streak around and Encase, Negate, Lightning Flood the appropriate locations?

Personally in my experience, the most disruptive Sorc when it is a large group encounter is the one that pushes through our line and draws the attention away from the incoming push.

Rylana

Erock25 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Both.

Bad sorcerers are bad.
Good sorcerers are good. Very good. Definitely not underpowered

A well played sorc is usually the difference maker in any engagement. But I find the sorcs that actually are the difference makers are few and far between and are not the solo build types that most people identify with.

Mad respect for guys like Ezareth and Teargrants, for they are absolutely lethal out there if youre caught by yourself, but in group play (in my experience only, mind) they can be mostly ignored. Its the ones that set up streak/negate area denial and so on that I am referring to. For as much as I razz on Crystalized being the most killed player by me, I have to mention he is also the most dangerous sorc I know of, because whenever he shows up you know you have less than 2 seconds before a group of nasty is about to smash into you and your group with him setting it up for them to come through. (He as an individual is incredibly easy to kill, but the role he brings to his group more than makes up for that, is what I mean. Same is true for most group-play specs really)

A skilled group play sorc can absolutely be the one and only cause of an organized group wiping. Ive done it, and ive been the victim of it.

That being said, sorc as a class is quite difficult to play well nowadays having gone through in my estimation the most massive change from what they were at launch. Used to be very flexible and able to fill multiple on demand roles with just some minor gear/skill changes. Now the class is getting more and more relegated to niche one-job roles and it kinda sucks.

@Rylana I understand if you don't want to give away your own guild's strategy, but I'm curious just what type of gameplay these group oriented Sorcs are doing. Do you still find Streak to be useful in 1.6 now that it gives CC immunity? I still find Negate to be fairly powerful even with the 1.6 nerfs, but I'm wondering what else a group Sorc brings to PVP. Is his job just to Streak around and Encase, Negate, Lightning Flood the appropriate locations?

Personally in my experience, the most disruptive Sorc when it is a large group encounter is the one that pushes through our line and draws the attention away from the incoming push.

Causing mass mayhem would be the best way I can put it. To not allow OPFOR to be where they want to be, area denial, just causing ruckus on their backline. Streak still does cause that, though true say that its nowhere near as good as it once was.

The last thing Id want to see is an AOE type sorc on my backline. It makes the healers and ranged attackers "self aware" so they actually pull heals/DPS off the front line/killzone.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Rylana wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I find it odd that there is a thread about how bad sorcerers are http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155048/sorcerers-were-over-nerfed-again/p1 and then this thread about how difficult they are to kill. Which is it?

Both.

Bad sorcerers are bad.
Good sorcerers are good. Very good. Definitely not underpowered

A well played sorc is usually the difference maker in any engagement. But I find the sorcs that actually are the difference makers are few and far between and are not the solo build types that most people identify with.

Mad respect for guys like Ezareth and Teargrants, for they are absolutely lethal out there if youre caught by yourself, but in group play (in my experience only, mind) they can be mostly ignored. Its the ones that set up streak/negate area denial and so on that I am referring to. For as much as I razz on Crystalized being the most killed player by me, I have to mention he is also the most dangerous sorc I know of, because whenever he shows up you know you have less than 2 seconds before a group of nasty is about to smash into you and your group with him setting it up for them to come through. (He as an individual is incredibly easy to kill, but the role he brings to his group more than makes up for that, is what I mean. Same is true for most group-play specs really)

A skilled group play sorc can absolutely be the one and only cause of an organized group wiping. Ive done it, and ive been the victim of it.

That being said, sorc as a class is quite difficult to play well nowadays having gone through in my estimation the most massive change from what they were at launch. Used to be very flexible and able to fill multiple on demand roles with just some minor gear/skill changes. Now the class is getting more and more relegated to niche one-job roles and it kinda sucks.

@Rylana I understand if you don't want to give away your own guild's strategy, but I'm curious just what type of gameplay these group oriented Sorcs are doing. Do you still find Streak to be useful in 1.6 now that it gives CC immunity? I still find Negate to be fairly powerful even with the 1.6 nerfs, but I'm wondering what else a group Sorc brings to PVP. Is his job just to Streak around and Encase, Negate, Lightning Flood the appropriate locations?

Personally in my experience, the most disruptive Sorc when it is a large group encounter is the one that pushes through our line and draws the attention away from the incoming push.

Causing mass mayhem would be the best way I can put it. To not allow OPFOR to be where they want to be, area denial, just causing ruckus on their backline. Streak still does cause that, though true say that its nowhere near as good as it once was.

The last thing Id want to see is an AOE type sorc on my backline. It makes the healers and ranged attackers "self aware" so they actually pull heals/DPS off the front line/killzone.

That is one of the most fun things to do as a sorc. Shield and buff up, bolt through or flank the front lines and then hit the ranged and supporting players in the back. A few crushing shocks interrupt their casts and suddenly they are all buffing up or trying to attack you instead of supporting their teammates. You save enough magicka to bolt back out and leave a few presents behind you in the form or negates or mines or other roots.

I've been tempted to go full troll spec for a while now and slot speed or immovable pots, encase, mines, volcano rune, caltrops and just dive in, give everyone CC presents and bolt out.