To those that say the vocal minority is ruining this game.

Vyle_Byte

No one really knows the minority or the majority so anyone throwing those terms around is just tossing monkey dung at our faces anyhow.

Every person who plays this game has a right to voice thier opinion. Doesnt make them right, doesnt mean that ZOS should listen to them either. While one guys opinion may be good for him and a few others, it may not be good for the game as a whole. ZOS just needs to be careful and think before they implement some BS because Joe-Schmoe wants it.

Also, I hate this stupid 'war' between PVPers and PVEers. Its dumb, just stop. Both are EQUALLY valued in this game WE love. One is not less than the other. (this is directed to the trolls of tamriel)

JD2013

Sylvyr wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

If they are not aligned (have the same goals, can agree, compromise, work together, etc) then yeah.

But to have a successful restaurant whatever the cook or cooks do they need to get and process customer feedback or they end up on Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares.

The problem with that is that a lot of people on here have their own ideas of what this game should be. People want more PVP. People want less PVP. People want more PVE and solo. People want less PVE and solo. People want more radiant quests. People want the game to be more like Skyrim Online. People want it to be more like GW2. People want it to be more like WoW. People want to change the UI. People want to leave the UI.

So do we see the problem here? Zenimax have only so many ears to listen with.

I agree that things need fixing. But goodness let the devs make the game rather than everyone here attempting to be one.

eliisra

Sylvyr wrote: »

Stella75 wrote: »

hmmm any game that hypes pvp is going fall on its face imo

Battlefield series seemed to do quite good. Eve Online as well. List goes on... just saying... but it's kind of O/T

It's not that OT. Because certain players seems to be under the assumption than PvP'ers are a "vocal minority".

I'd say, they're just vocal.

Online games with the most players, making the most money with highest yearly revenue, they're all PvP focused. Either full out PvP games or online games that takes PvP seriously and puts effort into in.

There's no such thing as online games without any PvP content, that's also making money. Even the silly Maple Story and solo'ers paradise Diablo 3 has PvP.

The PvP crowd is huge as far as online gaming goes. So it's up to game developers and distributors, if they want them. Make PvP balanced, running smoothly, with updates, meaningful rewards and progression, than players participating in PvP'ers will be a majority. If you just ignore, like ESO's been doing for almost a year, than for sure PvP'ers will start going elsewhere.

Topic: This is always what I'm seeing on gaming forums:

People not sharing X opinion = Let's call them vocal minority, troll, whiners etc ruining the game.
People sharing X opinion = Let's pretend we're both part of the noble silent majority, let's type it out at least 100 times to make our arguments look more solid.

It means nothing, empty words. We have no actual data supporting anything regarding current or potential play-base.

HeroOfNone

All joking aside, the main issue I see in a lot of mmo communities is they like to *** more than offer suggestions, and like to be negative more than positive. It's part of who gamers are, some more than others. I work in IT as a Business Analyst at times and I deal with this mentality a LOT. To ZOS's credit and detriment, they listen to their customers and the hype some give. They have rarely answered the call to "nerf" a class, at least compared to other MMOs, but have worked to improve each class so they can fill multiple roles. At the same time their priority tends to be to fix certain surface issues first, other under lying issues second or through major overhauls. I understand it, but it can lead to rocky rollouts.


What can we as players do? One thing is to write something positive and constructive on the forums. Suggestions are a good way to promote change, just don't expect everything you ask for to be used. If you can, look through the forums for "Suggestion: xxxxxxxx" and like, awesome or give a reply so the devs take a look at that and give it priority. If you can help it though avoid the complaints of "the templar execute is bad, take it all away"or "all DKs suck, take away their passives", all you do then is have a race to the bottom. If you need to give a complaint be constructive, asking "the templar execute kills me in 2 seconds, what can I do to stay alive?" Or "I would like a strong elemental affinity like Dragon Knights have" so their people can infer what you really want or need, and how to deliver it in a fun or challenging way.

All bitching ever does is tell someone how much they hate their work and effort. I do it on stream at times as a passing thought, but with some of these post it seems to be a total disregard for the balancing skills of the developers, who probably have the jobs you want.

Ysne58

OK, now I cannot get an image out of my mind with Gordon Ramsey inviting ESO to kitchen nightmares.

ZOS needs to listen, make sure that people know they are being heard, and carefully weigh how they use the feed back. It would really help with the knowing we are being heard if we got more feedback from ZOS.

And I agree about the equal importance of both PvP and PvE. The best suggestion I've heard yet is to set up PvP solutions to skills so that they only work in Cyrodiil (or any other PvP areas that get added) and set up PvE skill solutions to only work in PvE areas. i.e. have separate PvP and PvE skillsets that kick in depending on location.

eventide03b14a_ESO

eliisra wrote: »

Sylvyr wrote: »

Stella75 wrote: »

hmmm any game that hypes pvp is going fall on its face imo

Battlefield series seemed to do quite good. Eve Online as well. List goes on... just saying... but it's kind of O/T

It's not that OT. Because certain players seems to be under the assumption than PvP'ers are a "vocal minority".

I'd say, they're just vocal.

Online games with the most players, making the most money with highest yearly revenue, they're all PvP focused. Either full out PvP games or online games that takes PvP seriously and puts effort into in.

There's no such thing as online games without any PvP content, that's also making money. Even the silly Maple Story and solo'ers paradise Diablo 3 has PvP.

The PvP crowd is huge as far as online gaming goes. So it's up to game developers and distributors, if they want them. Make PvP balanced, running smoothly, with updates, meaningful rewards and progression, than players participating in PvP'ers will be a majority. If you just ignore, like ESO's been doing for almost a year, than for sure PvP'ers will start going elsewhere.

Topic: This is always what I'm seeing on gaming forums:

People not sharing X opinion = Let's call them vocal minority, troll, whiners etc ruining the game.
People sharing X opinion = Let's pretend we're both part of the noble silent majority, let's type it out at least 100 times to make our arguments look more solid.

It means nothing, empty words. We have no actual data supporting anything regarding current or potential play-base.

Another reason that they PvPers are so vocal is that Cyrodiil is still really bad. At this point I'd say hopelessly so. If the PvE zones ran as poorly as Cyrodiil you better believe a lot more people would be on the forums voicing their discontent. I should also add there is absolutely no in game support. Other games I have played (EQ, EQ2, for instance) if you report something in game you will get someone sending you a PM in game to address the problem. Email is not a very good method of addressing immediate concerns and you are going to have those people that get frustrated and come here where they believe they might be heard.

Sylvyr

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

No one really knows the minority or the majority so anyone throwing those terms around is just tossing monkey dung at our faces anyhow.

Every person who plays this game has a right to voice thier opinion. Doesnt make them right, doesnt mean that ZOS should listen to them either. While one guys opinion may be good for him and a few others, it may not be good for the game as a whole. ZOS just needs to be careful and think before they implement some BS because Joe-Schmoe wants it.

Also, I hate this stupid 'war' between PVPers and PVEers. Its dumb, just stop. Both are EQUALLY valued in this game WE love. One is not less than the other. (this is directed to the trolls of tamriel)

Nicely put.

And yes, this war between PvE and PvPers is so lame. I do both. I enjoy both thoroughly and for different reasons. But yeah a lot of people don't like PvP (here's my trolling: usually because they are bok bok chicken! Just razzin..) and a lot of PvPers don't like to PvE because it's like playing battefield or call of duty or any PvP style game with bots instead of people. And they fight for their "side" because there are limited resources and seemingly unlimited desires fighting for them....

Its nice that there are PvE elements in Cyro and hopefully in the future some PvP elements in PvE with justice, maybe that will bring people together a bit more and expand horizons and lessen the rivalry.

Sylvyr

eliisra wrote: »

Sylvyr wrote: »

Stella75 wrote: »

hmmm any game that hypes pvp is going fall on its face imo

Battlefield series seemed to do quite good. Eve Online as well. List goes on... just saying... but it's kind of O/T

It's not that OT. Because certain players seems to be under the assumption than PvP'ers are a "vocal minority".

I'd say, they're just vocal.

Online games with the most players, making the most money with highest yearly revenue, they're all PvP focused. Either full out PvP games or online games that takes PvP seriously and puts effort into in.

There's no such thing as online games without any PvP content, that's also making money. Even the silly Maple Story and solo'ers paradise Diablo 3 has PvP.

The PvP crowd is huge as far as online gaming goes. So it's up to game developers and distributors, if they want them. Make PvP balanced, running smoothly, with updates, meaningful rewards and progression, than players participating in PvP'ers will be a majority. If you just ignore, like ESO's been doing for almost a year, than for sure PvP'ers will start going elsewhere.

Topic: This is always what I'm seeing on gaming forums:

People not sharing X opinion = Let's call them vocal minority, troll, whiners etc ruining the game.
People sharing X opinion = Let's pretend we're both part of the noble silent majority, let's type it out at least 100 times to make our arguments look more solid.

It means nothing, empty words. We have no actual data supporting anything regarding current or potential play-base.

Totally, PvP tends to be a lot more long term than PvE and actually has an element that makes it easier to support. What I mean is, PvE you get to highest level get the best gear get bored and leave UNLESS they generate more and more content. With PvP the players and a dynamic situation in a sense provides its own content and developers don't have to develop as much content for PvP. Which is why PvP games can do so well, especially if they do get content updates.

PvPers can be vocal because they are used to speaking up mainly because communication is a big + in PvP. But in this case I don't think they are trying to ruin it for PvErs or take away their game, or even demand new content, they are being vocal about 2 issues that are basic and fundamental to PvP 1) balance 2) playability, and they are particularly noisy about it because Cryodiil is 100 times more a pain in the ass than PvE zones. If the same things were happening in PvE.... erm.. yeah...

Sylvyr

Ysne58 wrote: »

OK, now I cannot get an image out of my mind with Gordon Ramsey inviting ESO to kitchen nightmares.

ZOS needs to listen, make sure that people know they are being heard, and carefully weigh how they use the feed back. It would really help with the knowing we are being heard if we got more feedback from ZOS.

And I agree about the equal importance of both PvP and PvE. The best suggestion I've heard yet is to set up PvP solutions to skills so that they only work in Cyrodiil (or any other PvP areas that get added) and set up PvE skill solutions to only work in PvE areas. i.e. have separate PvP and PvE skillsets that kick in depending on location.

Yeah, I agree that ZoS needs to communicate back more. The less people with concerns hear back often times the mentality is if I get louder maybe they will hear better (I do this myself all the time I freely admit it). This starts a vicious cycle where they get more and more to deal with and can't respond and people get more vocal.

Can't blame them for that at all. Given the state of some of the issues and the feeling of ZoS being behind a curtain people are going to be vocal.

But sticking with the theme of the thread, they are NOT ruining the game.

Soulshine

Well somone above said something to the effect of "if the majority were ever to speak..." I question whether or not this hasn't already happened?

What I mean is, given the move to B2P it would seem that there was obviously a loud message coming back that said "we don't think this game is worth paying for every month." ZoS of course has been claiming they changed the payment model due to "community feebdack"... heh... ok well... on that basis....what message did they send then?

At the end of the day, money talks above all else. If we end up in the same place we are now, a year from console launch...? I'd say we will have a pretty loud answer - at least about who is really "ruining the game" and I would doubt responsibility will rest on the community.

Hopefully though, that will not be the case.

c0rp

vovus69 wrote: »

minority is always wrong. Especially that loud and whining as PVP/group minority. I hope ZOS will listen less to them and will develop more content for silent majority who does PVE and solo content. That would be awesome.

With all due respect...the only content that has been added to this game is PVE. PVP has got nothing in a year. Just so you know..

Vahrokh

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

Also, I hate this stupid 'war' between PVPers and PVEers. Its dumb, just stop. Both are EQUALLY valued in this game WE love. One is not less than the other. (this is directed to the trolls of tamriel)

I have played a class in WoW. It got nerfed because in PvP it was OP so they screwed it for PvE.
I have played some ships in EvE Online. They were nerfed because in PvP they were OP so they screwed them for "PvE".
I have played some classes in SWTOR. They were nerfed to oblivion because in PvP they were OP so they screwed them for PvE.
I am playing a class in ESO (sorc). They have nerfed it to oblivion because in PvP they say it's OP, so now they are screwed for PvE.

So, yeah, I have no reason to have a thing vs PvP ruining my games since a decade!

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

PvP is what the majority of my friends (my Friends list is full BTW) bought the game for. Hardly anyone i know bought this game to PvE.

Perhaps you don't know everyone? People you met in PvP are likely to do PvP, don't you think?

The number of campaigns in Cyrodiil should tell you something. All the campaigns together add up to a few thousand people worldwide doing PvP at peak hours. Please give that some thought before you claim that "hardly anyone" is in this game for PvE. Of course, there are not all that many players in PvE either at the moment, but they are definitely not a small minority.

UrQuan

JD2013 wrote: »

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

Curse you for getting this stuck in my head again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8

Sylvyr

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

PvP is what the majority of my friends (my Friends list is full BTW) bought the game for. Hardly anyone i know bought this game to PvE.

Perhaps you don't know everyone? People you met in PvP are likely to do PvP, don't you think?

The number of campaigns in Cyrodiil should tell you something. All the campaigns together add up to a few thousand people worldwide doing PvP at peak hours. Please give that some thought before you claim that "hardly anyone" is in this game for PvE. Of course, there are not all that many players in PvE either at the moment, but they are definitely not a small minority.

Just to add though.

The current PvP pop is probably a fraction of players roaming around PvE zones.

But everyone should keep in mind that if Cyrodiil was more bearable (code and lagwise), there might be a LOT more campaigns. Just sayin'. If PVE had 4000+ latency and most skills not working how many people do you think would be playing PvE?

PvPers tend to be a little more hardcore and with that some tend to just grit their teeth and bear, like they would if they got shot in the leg they keep running and so what you have in PvP now are those people and new people that either leave or become stalwart or put up with it hoping that a fix is coming soon (even though it's been months).

JD2013

UrQuan wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

Curse you for getting this stuck in my head again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8

Haha sorry! If it helps, now it is stuck in my head!

jacktors11

Actually, ZOS could easily add simple polls upon login, if they are interested in learning what the majority of their customers want. it is very difficult to guage whether people on the forums are current players, trolls or serial complainers.
If they create a 1 to 3 question poll every week, they can better accomodate their customers concerns.

Just an idea.....