Monetization of Character Creation Concept

technohic

I am baffled by the concern in ZOS making money by finding ways to nickel and dime you in more ways. ZOS has actually seemed to give every effort to not have a pay wall like a lot of other games that people complain about, so people now ask for a pay wall. Just doesn't make sense.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

So you are now suggesting that ZOS lock new elements on the character creation screen, for new console players who haven't even stepped one (possibly clawed) foot into the game yet, behind an additional paywall?

Grasping for more money like that before players can even create their first character would probably turn more people off from the game than anything else. I hope they don't do that. They should at least be allowed to create a character and get into the game and get their bearings before ZOS starts hitting them up for cash micro transactions.

That's a good point. Perhaps this idea is best left for when they start allowing race change and post creation access to the character creation screen.

GIDORICK
Its a good idea mate its better than ESO live a long life.
I still love swtor and i dont mind this at all.

Thanks @Heromofo. Slurg is right though. this is best suited for a post release expansion tired to the barber shop or some similar mechanic.

Well the barbershop is in the works so its good to get this out there mate.

Maddhawk

HELL NO! As another said, the current Star Wars MMO already nickle and dimes you for access to ANYTHING beyond the absolute most basic functions of the game. I tried that game and played through the Sith starting point and the first space station until I got to my first new planet. When the nickle and diming got even more blatant I logged out and uninstalled. I haven't looked back since.

Now I can understand you desire for improvements to the character creation process and for more diversity in how you design your characters base appearance. Nothing wrong with that. However, character creation is a BASIC feature for any MMO and when you start making half the features for it Cash Shop only, you immediately present a bad impression to new players and vets alike. It would be as if I walked into a job interview and demanded $100 upfront for giving the company interviewing me the privilege just to speak to me.

Gidorick wrote: »

The nickel & diming is coming, there is absolutely NO doubt about that... I'm just trying to offer suggestions for things that I think would make money that would enhance the game experience for those of us willing to pay.

When that day comes, I will quit. This game is already my very final attempt to find a good quality fantasy MMORPG that hasn't been completely ruined by either corporate greed or constant change with concepts that are no longer enjoyable (WoW).

Gidorick wrote: »

I suggested certain things like any-race/any alliance & Imperials be placed behind a subscription and I got completely railed for that. People would prefer them to be one-time purchasable items.

I would be 100% completely alright with the Advanced Khajiit, Advanced Argonian, and Advanced Height packs being behind a subscription. I think ZOS should do everything they can to make the subscriptions enticing to old players and new.

That being said, subscribers could just use their 1500 Crowns per month to buy the 'upgrade' packs... effectively making the packs 'free' to subscribers.

Where all of this will lead is more money in the pockets of ZOS and that IS a good thing.

Any-Race/Imperial Race being a subscription only IS a bad idea. People were correct to rail you for it. What happens if budget is particularly tight one month (Someone got let go cause business had to downsize?) and finding replacement work out of the blue is taking longer than expected? $15/month for a sub is REALLY cheap for entertainment compared to the alternatives you can spend that $15 on. However, if they have to drop the sub for a month or two while stretching their budget while job hunting, they would suddenly loose access to their Imperial toons or Daggerfall Covenant toons. What if those where their main and the only toons they had created?

Additional character creation features behind the sub wall? Mmmm, maybe, so long as cancelling a sub doesn't remove access to toons made with such features. However, such features should be baked in to the game and not something unlocked from the Cash Shop. The whole purpose of a "Cash Shop" is that you can buy items and cosmetic things from there that does not break the balance of the game. New armor styles, new weapon styles, additional mounts, pets, player housing (I wish), things for your player housing, DLC packs for NEW ZONES, are examples of the kind of things that are not basic to the game itself and as such are perfect targets for Cash Shop inclusion. Remember character creation is a BASE feature of any MMO.

Panda244 wrote: »

And Bioware/EA is doing great in terms of money making...

Not with Star Wars they are not.

Gidorick wrote: »

I think subscriptions should be chocked full of additional options... I agree with you there. However, there are SOME people that will NEVER sub, and these kind of options are ways to squeeze some coin out of them.

Is this ideal? No. I think we can all agree ideal was Pay-to-Play... but that ship has sailed out to deep water and was unceremoniously sunk. What I'm offering is sort of a consolation prize.

And here is where you make your Crowning Mistake.

there are SOME people that will NEVER sub, and these kind of options are ways to squeeze some coin out of them.

and this,

What I'm offering is sort of a consolation prize.

NOTHING is more GUARANTEED to *** off people in anything than to treat them as cattle to be milked or slaughtered for cash. NOTHING! Human history is full of examples of empires being toppled, kings executed along with their entire families, nobles and the wealthy being butchered because they treated their fellow man in such a manner. Hell the United States revolution arose because of that very treatment by British parliament.

Now, Bethesda and ZOS do not have to worry about the players uniting and storming their offices with rifles and shotguns, however, to do what you are suggesting and treat their players with such contempt and disrespect will lead to a boycott of their products and that will bankrupt them.

You are right to say that there are some people who will never pay for a sub or anything else in the crown store. So what makes you think they will pay for any of these other "extras"? The only people who would make use of them are already paying. You want to screw them over now simply because you are being greedy on ZOS's behalf?

You disgust me now. All respect has been lost.

As someone who has been playing MMOs for the better of 15 years and happily subscribed for 14 of those 15 years, I feel ESO made too many newbie mistakes in the MMO genre market at launch. They made the right call going BTP. Now they have to step on and suppress their desire for short term profits and keep endeavoring to fix their game properly. If they stick with it and work hard, they will eventually have a game on their hands that will inspire a great many to subscribe to. Why? Because the players will appreciate the quality of game they have access to. Sure not everyone will subscribe, but that will be why they are here in the first place, because they do not have to.

Faulgor

I will never cease to be amazed how people find new ways for themselves to be fleeced by large corporations.

Money for ZOS doesn't mean dren when they don't use it to make a good game. If they make money the way you suggest by nickle & diming everything, that is what they will continue to invest in because that is what makes them money. If you think the dollars you spend for a new moustache will somehow end up developing new zones and pvp mechanics you are living behind Masser and Secunda.

The only barely acceptable way for these type of customization options to end up in the Crown Store is as an all-inclusive DLC, available for free to subscribers like other content DLC.

Slurg

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

So you are now suggesting that ZOS lock new elements on the character creation screen, for new console players who haven't even stepped one (possibly clawed) foot into the game yet, behind an additional paywall?

Grasping for more money like that before players can even create their first character would probably turn more people off from the game than anything else. I hope they don't do that. They should at least be allowed to create a character and get into the game and get their bearings before ZOS starts hitting them up for cash micro transactions.

That's a good point. Perhaps this idea is best left for when they start allowing race change and post creation access to the character creation screen.

Right, I think the options you propose are better suited to character modification mechanics whenever we get those, rather than making the new players feel like they are being pressured to pay more to get into the game for the first time.

I edited the post because you are right. Wouldn't be a good idea to tell players they get "the whole experience" and then paywall them at literally the first opportunity. Bad first impression.

Of course ZOS could ignore us and paywall people creating their first character anyway, but I would hope they'd recognize it's better for business to give customers who enjoy playing the game things that make them want to open their wallets willingly, rather than make them feel like they have to shell out cash at every turn just to play the game.

Gidorick

Faulgor wrote: »

I will never cease to be amazed how people find new ways for themselves to be fleeced by large corporations.

Money for ZOS doesn't mean dren when they don't use it to make a good game. If they make money the way you suggest by nickle & diming everything, that is what they will continue to invest in because that is what makes them money. If you think the dollars you spend for a new moustache will somehow end up developing new zones and pvp mechanics you are living behind Masser and Secunda.

The only barely acceptable way for these type of customization options to end up in the Crown Store is as an all-inclusive DLC, available for free to subscribers like other content DLC.

I want an Ohmes Khajiit character.

I'm willing to pay for It.

That's pretty much the long and short of this.

Heromofo

Swtor makes a mint by doing this and the more money the better for zos and maybe eso lol.

+1 Heromofo

PKMN12

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Gidorick

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Gidorick

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

Well they can just run abit faster lol

Gidorick

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

Well they can just run abit faster lol

10% speed bonus... woot!

PKMN12

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

they add a race every once in a while (only ONE has been added, with another planned later this year)

otherwise, it is just some racial specific hair and eye colors, plus some small extra stuff. No MMO ever has any major skeletal changes., unless there is a MAJORLY good reason.

STO, for example changed one of their races to look much better, but it was because the original look was TERRIBLE and nothing like the actual race. the original design is now unusable, despite that some people DID like it.

MercyKilling

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

City of Heroes. Too bad it got shut down. If it were still going, I'd STILL be playing....AND subscribing.

Gidorick

PKMN12 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

they add a race every once in a while (only ONE has been added, with another planned later this year)

otherwise, it is just some racial specific hair and eye colors, plus some small extra stuff. No MMO ever has any major skeletal changes., unless there is a MAJORLY good reason.

STO, for example changed one of their races to look much better, but it was because the original look was TERRIBLE and nothing like the actual race. the original design is now unusable, despite that some people DID like it.

Majorly good reason? LORE!... and the money they'd make. Those are two very good reasons.

PKMN12

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

they add a race every once in a while (only ONE has been added, with another planned later this year)

otherwise, it is just some racial specific hair and eye colors, plus some small extra stuff. No MMO ever has any major skeletal changes., unless there is a MAJORLY good reason.

STO, for example changed one of their races to look much better, but it was because the original look was TERRIBLE and nothing like the actual race. the original design is now unusable, despite that some people DID like it.

Majorly good reason? LORE!... and the money they'd make. Those are two very good reasons.

STO and WOW are the ONLY two games that have really ever done something like it. STO ONLY did it because the original model for that ONE species looked terrible compared to the rest of the game. WOW did it several times as a simple graphical update every so often

Neither of them did it for "lore" really. and STO did nto really do it for fans, more for the fact it simply looked horrid.

skeletons are not easy to create. there is a VERY good reason that 90% of skyrim mods that use a skeleton all use XP32's or the vanillas.

Now, do not get me wrong, seeing the other Khaiit races would be great, and would add a lot to this game, but unless, down the road, they decide to add one or two as seperate races, it seems unlikely.

Lenikus

You want a pretty ribbon on your tail, that's alright. But if anything, it should be placed on with that 'hairsalon' thing that is being planned, and should be an actual place, not just a purchasable thing on crown store.

Also, NOT something that is threw on the face of new players as soon as they CREATE their character
Otherwise, you are saying to new players: " HA, you have to pay more money to us if you want to do that"

sylviermoone

Man. Every time I read a thread that has AWSEOME suggestions for the game, it is authored by @Gidorick. Seriously, ZOS: why haven't you hired this guy all ready???!!!???!?!

Brilliant.

NewBlacksmurf

My responses to this topic....no

The games financial stability may not follow what you think it wilL

Removing the sub requirement doesn't conclude no one is buying the sub.
It also doesn't mean that the company hasn't also adjusted its expenses to align with their new model

I think ZOS is doing fine as nothing suggests otherwise. If anything, they are doing better this the reason for change. No company is/should give up profitability just because customer feedback unless they can realign their business plan as such

tplink3r1

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

No.

What do you have against giant kitties?

Jakhajay

I wouldn't mind this as long as I could buy more character slots

Egonieser

Why are some people against this so much? He is talking about additional options, not monetizing ones we have now. How is that going to hurt you in any way? It will be for you the same way it has been for the past year and a half, so why is it hurting your butt so much? Is it on principle? I've noticed people will scream bloody murder when anything is added in the cash shop, even if it's things that don't affect them in any way.

If they suddenly put the current base features behind a paywall like many other games have done after a payment model transition, i would understand, but as it stands, nothing at the moment is behind a paywall apart from initial purchase, and i doubt it ever will unless they switch entirely to F2P. Additional fluff should cost money, because it's fluff, it's harmless little cosmetic things that bring temporary joy to some and developers some money. Deal with it.

NewBlacksmurf

Egonieser wrote: »

Why are some people against this so much? He is talking about additional options, not monetizing ones we have now. How is that going to hurt you in any way? It will be for you the same way it has been for the past year and a half, so why is it hurting your butt so much? Is it on principle? I've noticed people will scream bloody murder when anything is added in the cash shop, even if it's things that don't affect them in any way.

If they suddenly put the current base features behind a paywall like many other games have done after a payment model transition, i would understand, but as it stands, nothing at the moment is behind a paywall apart from initial purchase, and i doubt it ever will unless they switch entirely to F2P. Additional fluff should cost money, because it's fluff, it's harmless little cosmetic things that bring temporary joy to some and developers some money. Deal with it.

The topic is specifically about adding content behind a paywall for the most important part of the game. Your character and cosmetic options for character creation.
That will bring all the boys to the yard...even more than milkshake

AH93

If I could vote on this I would say no, simply because I would never spend money on things like this, as well as what's already been mentioned about this suggestion turning ESO into ever more nickel and dime.
I'd rather they stick to mounts/pets/costumes for people who buy all those.

In all honesty, the main thing which would incentivise me to part with my money, would be them fixing parts of the game that need fixing and improving, and adding more real, good quality content, not reskinned mounts. They won't be getting any money from me until this happens.

Firemantim

Knowing Bethesda, they'd make it like $4.99 per pack, I'm not cool with that and I don't think most other people are. It would be a better idea if it cost crowns maybe.

Bouvin

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Why would you want to turn this into a nickel & diming game?

I left SWTOR for that reason (amongst others)

LOL. It's already headed that way, hence the Crown Shop and B2P.

Danikat

Speaking as someone who abandoned the idea of playing any other race as soon as I discovered the khajiit in Morrowind, and who has played one in every game since then (with argonians a close second and standard choice for alts), and someone who is completely in favour of the buy-to-play/cash shop model and has actually been waiting for more worthwhile things to spend money on:

I have absolutely no interest in this idea and would never pay for it.

To be honest I wouldn't use most of these options even if they were free and included as standard. Maybe the tail adornment (depending on what's on offer and if it looked like it would obstruct the tails movement), but none of the rest. These seem entirely aimed at people who want to play an ohmes or ohmes-raht, whereas I always prefer my khajiit characters to be cathy or suthay/suthay-raht (honestly if I'm going to play a cat person I want to play a cat, not an elf who is actually a cat as long as everyone around you knows the lore in detail).

But even looking beyond that charging for a few extra sliders to add one of 16-20 (depending on who you ask) sub races for one race looks a lot like trying to get as much money from your players as you can get away with for as little as possible.

If they were to add the option for different sub races I'd prefer it to be a pack that adds all the different breeds, and ideally similar options for the other races, although I don't think any of the other races have subraces as distinct as the khajiit. Ideally as part of an expansion or larger DLC that added the rest of Elsweyr and/or Blackmarsh to the game.

MrGhosty

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

and the likely hood of this EVER happening, EVER, is zill to none.

Probably not...

I'm trying to find out if there has EVER been any MMO with update their character creator after its release? I've been trying out other MMOs and I've noticed that most of them have abysmal creators... WOWs creator is laughable. You have like 4 faces to choose from.

@Gidorick

Swtor did and still does add more in they make bucket loads of cash from it.

Well, that's good to know! But... of course, SWOTOR isn't exactly the model of how to do a cash shop/subscription optional MMO. Only subscribers can RUN... give me a break. lol.

they add a race every once in a while (only ONE has been added, with another planned later this year)

otherwise, it is just some racial specific hair and eye colors, plus some small extra stuff. No MMO ever has any major skeletal changes., unless there is a MAJORLY good reason.

STO, for example changed one of their races to look much better, but it was because the original look was TERRIBLE and nothing like the actual race. the original design is now unusable, despite that some people DID like it.

Majorly good reason? LORE!... and the money they'd make. Those are two very good reasons.

Beyond whether or not I think this is a good idea ( I don't) It doesn't seem terribly likely as many of these changes would affect the base meshes/skeletons etc. Seeing how they already overhauled the skeleton for the new facial animations and that took a fair bit of time this honestly just stands as something that will further delay any actual real content.

If we're derailing zone release for anything I'd rather they devote those resources into a robust housing system to give content AND items that are perfectly suited to cash shop options.

I also believe that the max/min height of a character is set in stone (at least without another major overhaul) but I wouldn't mind the full range of height of all characters be shared across all races (if they aren't already).

To be perfectly honest this suggestion seems more about you getting just what you want from the game with a thin veil of "this will be good for the company" slapdash across the top. If ZOS wants to improve their earnings they should focus instead on giving us these zones they've been showing off for months, adding in the faction armors, barbershop, etc that people have been asking for since day one. Let's encourage them to get that stuff out before we start giving them new ways to nickel and dime us eh?

Gidorick

That's a lot of good feedback everyone! Those of you who think I'm just trying to figure out ways for ZOS to nickle and dime is need to read, or at least look at the following threads

Khajiit Centric Update Suggestions:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141710/suggestions-for-an-eventual-khajiit-centric-update/p1

Argonian Centric Update
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/147221/concept-for-a-future-argonian-centric-update

In both of these threads I suggest ways to enhance the Beast races of ESO they were written prior to the buy to play announcement. The thread we are currently in was written in response to ZOS shifting the monetization method of ESO.

ZOS Stated that the entire experience of Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited can be experienced without subscription or additional payment. This means ANY additional features, functions, content WILL be monetized if it can. Cries that "this souks be free" really do come across as petulant and entitled. If features such as these are ever going to be added, they WILL charged for if it is in any way reasonable, so it's best to accept this and move on.

And I welcome ZOS to prove me wrong on this.

And not everyone will buy everything that is offered from ZOS. I will NEVER buy XP pots, $25 mounts, Respec Scrolls, race/name/faction/gender/class change, or crown store food. That doesn't mean they shouldn't add these things because since people will buy them!

And yes @MrGhosty, this thread IS me suggesting a way for ZOS to add features I want. Instead of just wining about the lack of the features I'm offering an idea of how they could be added in a way that would make ZOS a bit of money. I'm not privy to the systems which govern character creation. I'm not sure what limitations that system has, but I'm sure they're would be work involved with adding this type of feature set.... ergo, the monetization part of the concept.

I WAS going to say something like "who would be psychotic enough to spend time on a post suggesting features he doesn't care about be added to the game?".... but I did that very thing with my Training Dummies Concept (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172547/training-dummies-concept).