Dragon Knights Chaining themselves up keep walls, ZoS

Cody

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

NBs can still stambush onto keep walls...

.....what?

maybe across a broken keep wall to the other side; but in my last 7+ months of PvP I have NEVER seen a NB use ambush to get on top of a keep wall.

Did I just miss it?:(

If you ambush at the same time as an enemy enters a keep, you teleport with them through the door. I don't know about getting on top of a wall though.

its hard to intentionally pull that off. I know because i did it by total accident once. Performing this action requires EXACT timing and a lot of luck.

and tbh, NBs don't last long inside keeps by themselves anyway unless they sneak around. If a NB were to "Ambush to the top of the keep wall" they would be slaughtered; even sap essence tanking would not save the NB, as they would be focused down instantly, and most NBs don't have self heals or damage shields to use to keep themselves alive.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

NBs can still stambush onto keep walls...

.....what?

maybe across a broken keep wall to the other side; but in my last 7+ months of PvP I have NEVER seen a NB use ambush to get on top of a keep wall.

Did I just miss it?:(

If you ambush at the same time as an enemy enters a keep, you teleport with them through the door. I don't know about getting on top of a wall though.

I've jumped from Outer wall to Inner wall with Ambush in Kingscrest, Just wanted to see if I could do it, was in 1.5 but I can't imagine its changed. Think it would work for all 'scroll' keeps.

There are certain things you need to be able to do it though and enemy has to be standing in the right place, was much easier for DK to leap across.

Also there are places you can jump into resource towers however from outside keep wall haven't found one yet but looking isn't my main focus when PVPing

Xupacabra

Iam a Dk and i cant pull or be pulled to a wall, but if vampires can jump to players in walls and sorcers astronoch be casted up in the wall , why dks cant use chains to walls??

Xeniph

It was confirmed a few weeks in a video thread that using Ambush to get inside a keep is exploiting. As well as quite a while ago Leaping into a keep.

While it can be annoying, It will get patched eventually. With that said, there are farm more important issues that need to be addressed first.

Just avoid the places where this is more likely to happen. Most of you/us know where these spots are as they are nearly the same place Leap worked in.

Draxys

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kill them once they get inside the keep. DKs are free kills now.

not the point, and DKs are not free kills now.

Only the ones still using 1h& Shield and hold block are free kills, but those are the players who follow cookie cutter builds and can't pvp worth a damn.

Had a DK hold block for 12 seconds and using Reflective Scales when i'm spamming mages fury on him for 1.5k a hit.

Any DK that's still doing that and is easy to kill just doesn't understand how to make builds ;-)

Sacadon

Worlds smallest violin for you. /feedback

The_Death_Princess

Xeniph wrote: »

It was confirmed a few weeks in a video thread that using Ambush to get inside a keep is exploiting. As well as quite a while ago Leaping into a keep.

While it can be annoying, It will get patched eventually. With that said, there are farm more important issues that need to be addressed first.

Just avoid the places where this is more likely to happen. Most of you/us know where these spots are as they are nearly the same place Leap worked in.

Ayup. Which is why anything remotely like this should be reported in game for exploiting. Firstly, there is a really small chance ZOS might ban the exploiter. Secondly and more importantly, if they see more and more are using the exploits it will get moved up the fix priority chain.

AriBoh

We need invisible walls that players cant walk through just a few feet from the edge of the keep wall, just big enough for players to still fall off but if someone tries to jump up somehow they smack into it and fall to their well deserved death. Would be hilarious.

Reco

I fail to see how a player using a skill is exploiter. How is he supposed to know the spell is buggy and not working as intended? *Shakes head in disbelief*

Joy_Division

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kill them once they get inside the keep. DKs are free kills now.

not the point, and DKs are not free kills now.

Only the ones still using 1h& Shield and hold block are free kills, but those are the players who follow cookie cutter builds and can't pvp worth a damn.

Had a DK hold block for 12 seconds and using Reflective Scales when i'm spamming mages fury on him for 1.5k a hit.

The problem here is not the DK chaining herself up the wall, it is that you are spamming Mage's Fury on a full health target...

C0pp3rhead

In my eyes, the problem was never that a skilled or opportunistic player could use an ability to jump up to or pull themselves up to a keep wall. I laughed alot the first time I saw a teammate pull an enemy player off a keep wall if they were stupid enough to just hang out within reach of most abilities.

The problem is that only one class has the ability to take advantage of these mechanics. No other class has a leap or a pull. Moreover, the class with these capabilities has some of the best survival and damage mitigation skills.

Panda244

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

In my eyes, the problem was never that a skilled or opportunistic player could use an ability to jump up to or pull themselves up to a keep wall. I laughed alot the first time I saw a teammate pull an enemy player off a keep wall if they were stupid enough to just hang out within reach of most abilities.

The problem is that only one class has the ability to take advantage of these mechanics. No other class has a leap or a pull. Moreover, the class with these capabilities has some of the best survival and damage mitigation skills.

@C0pp3rhead So you'd prefer that every single class as an ability that lets them completely bypass siege? Or would you rather have them change it so that you can't use chains to get into the keep?

Simple Solution:
Raise the height of all keep walls by 5m.

This way you can't be chained up or down, and the only keeps that a Dragonknight would be able to get into is severely limited to around three or four, using Take Flight to get into a keep is fine in my opinion, but it shouldn't be something you can do at every keep, at every angle, the bug with Ferocious Leap is fixed so no Dragonknights can just Leap vertically up onto the walls anymore, there's still multiple keeps that you can use Take Flight, and an idiot enemy, or your friend, to Leap into. This isn't valid during a siege anymore because one DK can't kill twenty people... So I don't have an issue with it... But eh.

Reco

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

The problem is that only one class has the ability to take advantage of these mechanics

Classes are there because they have unique skills! News at 11.

Yusuf

fly dks, fly! my dreams and hopes are with you.

Snit

Joy_Division wrote: »

The problem here is not the DK chaining herself up the wall, it is that you are spamming Mage's Fury on a full health target...

Sorc vs DK produces stuff like that, though, unless the sorc is also S&B (and the new stamina costs make this tougher for magicka sorcs). Curse works, but it's not going to kill anyone by itself. Our remaining arsenal of non-reflected stuff is pretty limited. Streak doesn't do much damage. Liquid Lightning and mines don't work well on opponents paying attention.

You mostly end up spamming something cheap like Mage's Fury, refreshing your shields and hoping to run him out of resources first. When the block/ scales drop, you're fairly sure to have a Crystal Frags proc.

Hey, if there's a better way, share it. I'm no PvP genius, and I'm happy to learn.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kill them once they get inside the keep. DKs are free kills now.

not the point, and DKs are not free kills now.

Only the ones still using 1h& Shield and hold block are free kills, but those are the players who follow cookie cutter builds and can't pvp worth a damn.

Had a DK hold block for 12 seconds and using Reflective Scales when i'm spamming mages fury on him for 1.5k a hit.

The problem here is not the DK chaining herself up the wall, it is that you are spamming Mage's Fury on a full health target...

Amazing you take what i said out of context.

Joy_Division

Snit wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The problem here is not the DK chaining herself up the wall, it is that you are spamming Mage's Fury on a full health target...

Sorc vs DK produces stuff like that, though, unless the sorc is also S&B (and the new stamina costs make this tougher for magicka sorcs). Curse works, but it's not going to kill anyone by itself. Our remaining arsenal of non-reflected stuff is pretty limited. Streak doesn't do much damage. Liquid Lightning and mines don't work well on opponents paying attention.

You mostly end up spamming something cheap like Mage's Fury, refreshing your shields and hoping to run him out of resources first. When the block/ scales drop, you're fairly sure to have a Crystal Frags proc.

Hey, if there's a better way, share it. I'm no PvP genius, and I'm happy to learn.

Sorcs are better able to deal with DKs in 1.6. I'd agree 1.5 was tough without a specific build, but in my time pvping since the patch came out I'd say it is the DKs that are going to have to adjust, not sorcs...their light armor + shield perma-block tricks do not work anymore and their reflect is not nearly as good in group fights and useless vs templars.

A DK who blocks will have their stamina drained very quickly because of the 1.6 changes and now sorcs have a much better cost efficient option with liquid lightning (cast under the DK...they will move, drop block, or lose stamina) whereas before caltrops was popular. All sorc spells do more damage (independent of our ability to stack spellpower, itself a large boon), so bursting DKs down is easier. A lot of DKs switched to medium armor and that's fine since those DKs can't keep up their wings up through an entire fight.

I don't think this is the mismatch it once was.

Digiman

Xupacabra wrote: »

Iam a Dk and i cant pull or be pulled to a wall, but if vampires can jump to players in walls and sorcers astronoch be casted up in the wall , why dks cant use chains to walls??

I don't think Atronachs can be used to the degree of any real damage, at most not even my sorcerer would waste the time trying to glitch it.

There is a difference between an immovable NPC with stupid weak attack that can be bashed stuck between a wall and fully fledged DK AoE nuking everyone when they were OP enough to cause people to pick only them are very different matters.

Armitas

How can they fix one skill so that you can't get on a wall and immediately break another skill so that you can in such an obvious way? On top of that how do they manage not to read any DK discussion on it in the pts and revert it?

I just can't imagine after asking for more people to join the pts on ESO live that they would just not read any class discussions or skill posts that were given on the pts forum. I understand that some things can take a long time to fix but some things, like DK chains, can simply be reverted to their working state.

It wasn't even just a PvP issue, it became a tanking issue because the tank would find himself yanked away from his pile, or on VDSA pulled into something really bad. The skill is completely unsafe to use for piling mobs as mobs now have CC immunity.

So, real question here. WHAT IS THE POINT OF PTS? Why ask us to come? If you are just going to listen to a handful of people that you invite privately to speak to you, why ask us to come to the pts and spend the little free time we have on the pts where we will be ignored.

TheLaw

Good. Chain up, I want an easy kill.

Digiman

Armitas wrote: »

So, real question here. WHAT IS THE POINT OF PTS? Why ask us to come? If you are just going to listen to a handful of people that you invite privately to speak to you, why ask us to come to the pts and spend the little free time we have on the pts where we will be ignored.

The combat team are just vindictive. I would say they would be inept but no one can miss that many red lights in the PTS and never address it. They don't even tell people they are aware of the problems despite it being spread over 3 forums.

It's really sad actually, I expected a huge problem with just the CP system settling now it seems any new ability changed for a PTS build and the response about it gets utterly ignored. I didn't know why I even bothered wasting my time on the PTS if the testing and suggestions about potential problems would be ignored.

It isn't even that hard to do? There is 4 class in the game each with roughly 5 abilities in each line. Not 20 for 8 classes.

Its just really exhausting for me, when this happens. Really think management needs to clean house. Was ticked of ZoS Live! spent time talking about tattoos on the each of the CPS update.

Oughash

Etaniel wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kill them once they get inside the keep. DKs are free kills now.

not the point, and DKs are not free kills now.

Only the ones still using 1h& Shield and hold block are free kills, but those are the players who follow cookie cutter builds and can't pvp worth a damn.

Had a DK hold block for 12 seconds and using Reflective Scales when i'm spamming mages fury on him for 1.5k a hit.

aaaaah hahaha ahahhaha hahaha
If you really think the days of 1h&S dks are gone, i have bad news for you...
Of course, the people that rolled dk just because they heard it was op and who use scales against melee, those should never have been a problem in the first place

Agreed. The Sw/Sh DK is going to make a comeback stronger than it ever was (except maybe the days of 5ult batswarms). Just give people a little more time to grind up CPs... then the tears will flow like crazy. Magicka management is actually easier in 1.6 b/c you can stack so much cost reduction. Regen can be pushed way high, and dmg is not softcapped. Talons hits like a truck now. The B2P crowd is going to be farmed... hard.