Sorcerer - Stackable AoE - reported in 1.6.1 and still works (Video)

Gyudan

Finally sorcerers get the best DPS.
Please don't fix/nerf!

Morvul

well, you got to admit: it would be pretty hilarious to watch cyrodiil the for the first few days if this goes live
(naturally, as a sorc I'd probably consider it more fun then cyrodils average populace)

but seriosly, I hope all the people suggesting that might be intended are joking, yes?

Ezareth

I don't think it is a huge deal. Its an expensive skill and was expensive before the nerfed expert mage. If it doesn't stack with itself it isn't worth using. If it does I don't think it is OP.

The only potential downside would be if someone could spam synergies staniding in this in a raid...although I don't know if the synergy removes the spell any more or not.

halfbadger

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

If it doesn't stack with itself it isn't worth using.

It is the best dot in the pts right now.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I am sure they will address this immediately before it goes live. Just like that dupe bug that they were notified about pre-launch...

When asked if sorcs were going to be getting any skill fixes or better non-pet DPS all Eric could say was liquid lightning, liquid lightning, liquid lightning,

Guess its working as intended.

f047ys3v3n

So, lots of folks seem to be getting 14k with 70 CP with a variety of builds or so that seems to be what I am hearing. I can't be enticed to spend much time playing the alpha of the second version of a beta which only even has my tunes 1/3rd of the time. Here, with 70 CP, we see a sorc doing 20k with spamming an ability that slowly ramps up due to the self stacking effect, and requires the enemy to stay stationary to work. Certainly useful on the stack and whack trials bosses as well as some dungeon bosses whose movement can be controlled but not generally very valuable.

Is it OP? On the face of it, it doesn't strike me as particularly unbalanced. In 1.5 a good DK might get 1.6k on serpent and a similarly skilled sorc 1.1k. This was similar in situation because that DK could only get those numbers if the boss remained stationary at very close range for all the melee range AOE to work. This new sorc ability is far less of a disparity in percentages than the old DK / Sorc dichotomy and unlike the 1.5 DK who could walk around following the boss to some extent with his DPS this sorc must have the boss completely stationary because of the nature of the ability and the ramp up time. Furthermore, that hypothetical 1.5 DK and Sorc represented the pinnacle of refinement in DPS knowledge for their classes. I don't think for a minuet that 14k is all people will squeeze out of 1.6 whereas that 20k is button spamming and will not be improved.

Really, it doesn't look OP to me. It looks niche and rather boring and skill free to use. Realistically, you didn't expect them to make sorc a whole real class with quality synergy's between skills and well thought out bar combinations overnight did you? There really isn't much to start with at the moment. Perhaps this is their nich solution to get sorcs back in raids without having to spend the time to flesh out the class. It is rather clever in that because of the ramp up and stationary nature of the skill it will have limited usefulness for anything else. It will work to get sorcs in raids if raids happen with the gear and CP situation in 1.6. Something I kinda doubt.

As for worrying about people jamming doors with it in PVP, if you run though a gap before you negate it your very likely to die of a combination of oil, ultimates, and AOE's right now. This will be no different. Negate, run though. It's a pretty standard procedure. Negate may have no value in PVE after 1.6 but I'm pretty sure you will still want it to run though gaps in PVP.

Tanis-Stormbinder

@f047ys3v3n well put, I whole heartily agree^^

WhiskyBob

Haha werewolves doing 30k with one button, dual wields doing 20K using one button, sorc doing 33k with one button.

This patch is amazing.

Birdovic

Can someone confirm how it is stacking?
1 sorc can Stack 5 of that himself(Casting 5 Times himself)
OR
5 Sorc can Stack 5 of that(everyone Casting once)

Kas

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Can someone confirm how it is stacking?
1 sorc can Stack 5 of that himself(Casting 5 Times himself)
OR
5 Sorc can Stack 5 of that(everyone Casting once)

the first one is the case (and a bug), the second one is how it should be.

imho this bugs needs to be fixed (and will be, hopefully earlier than later - pleeease before 1.6 live)
i don't think it's all too bad in pvp, though. after all, you need a serious amount of casting time to create a (small) space with that insane damage. it will kinda break keep fights and breach defs but other than that, it's only annoying, not gamebreaking. It's a bit like 1.5 ele wall with someone purging you: super annoying and forces you to play around the particular bug - but at least you can play around it, somehow. too bad negate got nefed and can't safe a breach for its duration, now.

byrom101b16_ESO

This is utterly ridiculous, and as weaksauce as magicka Sorcs are atm on PTS, this has to be fixed pronto.

The claim above that DK dps isn't that far behind this ridiculous stacking possibility is telling however...

... DK's though - they go from strength to strength regardless and will be OP (albeit in slightly different ways) post 1.6 as they are pre...

Erock25

I can't believe anyone is sticking up for this bug. The sorc community already looked whiney, but trying to stick up for what is obviously a bugged mechanic is ridiculous.

Birdovic

Ok thats definetly more than a "buff" xD
And because of negate: i honestly think the nerf wasnt too bad.
Usually it was all about nullifying Anything with negate and Win.
All (skills based) tactics to prevent enemies from entering a breach were meaningless like that.

macabrex

Is this liquid lightning or lightning flood or both bugged?

Kragorn

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok thats definetly more than a "buff" xD
And because of negate: i honestly think the nerf wasnt too bad.
Usually it was all about nullifying Anything with negate and Win.
All (skills based) tactics to prevent enemies from entering a breach were meaningless like that.

Yeah, it's great when PVP QQ causes a skill to be nerfed to the point of near uselessness in the game the majority play: PVE.

I'm sick to death with the 1.6 nerf-fest which is entirely directed at lolPVPbalance: which Eric was so clear about in the 'Live' when trying to justify the Negate nerf.

halfbadger

Erock25 wrote: »

I can't believe anyone is sticking up for this bug. The sorc community already looked whiney, but trying to stick up for what is obviously a bugged mechanic is ridiculous.

halfbadger wrote: »

inb4 20 sorcs come in here and complain

Dracane

Radixo wrote: »

Yes, this is a serious bug and once you know how to reproduce it is not hard to repeat. Was able to figure it out in 5 minutes after watching the video. Won't tell how so less people exploit this, but someone who wants to will figure it out. Also making a bug public is a good way to draw attention to it and get it fixed. And people who think this works as intended are crazy, with this you are able to spam a skill which does 20k+ dmg per cast. You won't be able to do this on every boss, but on most.

If it requires some kind of 'code' to use it, then it's not intended.
If it would normally stack, I would say, this is awesome and should not be fixed.

But it appearently requires you to do weird things and this is a bug and should be fixed.

Birdovic

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »
Ok thats definetly more than a "buff" xD
And because of negate: i honestly think the nerf wasnt too bad.
Usually it was all about nullifying Anything with negate and Win.
All (skills based) tactics to prevent enemies from entering a breach were meaningless like that.

Yeah, it's great when PVP QQ causes a skill to be nerfed to the point of near uselessness in the game the majority play: PVE.

I'm sick to death with the 1.6 nerf-fest which is entirely directed at lolPVPbalance: which Eric was so clear about in the 'Live' when trying to justify the Negate nerf.

Hm I wont agree On the Part with majority Playing pve but still:
I think its best to give Skills changes to work differently in pvp and pve

Ezareth

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

halfbadger

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

Alcast was using template gear on a redguard and was not using cost reduction glyphs. With the right armour you would be able to spam it for about 1 min before running out of mana. 2 dark conversions and you will be back at full mana and then you can spam for another min.
If this is not fixed in the patch tomorrow then the top spots on the leaderboards will be a group of exploiting sorcs.

Erock25

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

You do realize they have to do something special (think it has to do with range) to be able to get multiple of these stacking on each other, right? You also realize Liquid Lightning is about the best damage per cast spell out there right now, even against a single target?

I know you look at things mostly from a PVP point of view, where Liquid Lightning isn't as effective as a damage dealer because of its ground targeted AOE nature, but IMO it is pointless and bad for game balance to even suggest something like this bug should be a real feature.

Lionxoft

halfbadger wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

Alcast was using template gear on a redguard and was not using cost reduction glyphs. With the right armour you would be able to spam it for about 1 min before running out of mana. 2 dark conversions and you will be back at full mana and then you can spam for another min.
If this is not fixed in the patch tomorrow then the top spots on the leaderboards will be a group of exploiting sorcs.

Halfbadger, just ignore Ezareth.

Erock25 wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

You do realize they have to do something special (think it has to do with range) to be able to get multiple of these stacking on each other, right? You also realize Liquid Lightning is about the best damage per cast spell out there right now, even against a single target?

I know you look at things mostly from a PVP point of view, where Liquid Lightning isn't as effective as a damage dealer because of its ground targeted AOE nature, but IMO it is pointless and bad for game balance to even suggest something like this bug should be a real feature.

Even in PvP this spell will be wrecking Zergs on the inner of keeps, outposts or hell even barn farms. This could be similar (maybe) to ground oils without the risk of being stuck/bugged on a siege engine. I'd be interested to see if liquid lightning can be purged since it's a ground effect aoe. Haven't used purge in so long that I forgot it's limits.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Well would be nice if we can get an official reply on whether this is a bug or working as intended.

Erock25

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Well would be nice if we can get an official reply on whether this is a bug or working as intended.

IT IS A BUG. YOU HAVE TO DO SHADY THINGS TO GET IT TO STACK. If you cast Liquid Lightning over and over again in normal scenarios it always over writes the previous one.

Ezareth

halfbadger wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

Alcast was using template gear on a redguard and was not using cost reduction glyphs. With the right armour you would be able to spam it for about 1 min before running out of mana. 2 dark conversions and you will be back at full mana and then you can spam for another min.
If this is not fixed in the patch tomorrow then the top spots on the leaderboards will be a group of exploiting sorcs.

He ran out of magicka in 15 seconds. His cost as calculated by 5% Sorc Passive, 21% Light Armor Passive and -15.8% Champion Passive was 2023 Magicka. With 3 Cost reduction enchants *and* Seducer or Archmage his cost would still be 1401 which would give him roughly 21-22 seconds of cast time....*not* a minute and since he'd lose 3 spell power enchants his damage would drop as well.

Channeling Dark Exchange twice would restore his mana back to full but his DPS would during that time and once he mana dumped again he'd be OOM.

Erock25 wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

While this skill is spammable it isn't sustainable. It is extremely expensive and you can dump your entire mana bar casting this very quickly. The loss of Expert Mage makes is extremely expensive and it was already expensive to begin with. The cost, coupled with the fact your target has to be stationary and the fight has to be short makes this a useful ability in the instances where it can be used but hardly OP.

You do realize they have to do something special (think it has to do with range) to be able to get multiple of these stacking on each other, right? You also realize Liquid Lightning is about the best damage per cast spell out there right now, even against a single target?

I know you look at things mostly from a PVP point of view, where Liquid Lightning isn't as effective as a damage dealer because of its ground targeted AOE nature, but IMO it is pointless and bad for game balance to even suggest something like this bug should be a real feature.

No I hadn't realized that and that wasn't made clear. If they are using some form of exploit to make it stack then it is obviously not intended and should be fixed. If Zenimax however intended this to stack as is then I'm for allowing it to remain.

I for one am sick of not being able to use *sorc* abilities in PvE and I've never cared for destro and crushing shock so it would be nice if there were some damage ability we had as the caster damage class that we could actually use effectively in PvE.

In PVP with a 4m radius, the fact that these stack wouldn't be a big deal.

cozmon3c_ESO

i hope it stays, this game needs some hard counters to zergs.

Snit

Lightning Splash is tough to balance. It may be a fantastic DoT, but it won't work on probably 40% of the bosses people care about (think about Veteran content, not just trials here). There are a lot of moving bosses.

I'm not sure how you quantify that weakness when evaluating its overall power. I am sure people will come to vastly different answers, depending on which bosses they consider important.

In any case, if this is meant to stack, it should probably increase in cost based on how many pools you have down.

Tanis-Stormbinder

I have to agree with ezareth_ESO if it is intended to stack remove the shady elements and let it stack normally, if not remove it.

Jahosefat

Erock25 wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Well would be nice if we can get an official reply on whether this is a bug or working as intended.

IT IS A BUG. YOU HAVE TO DO SHADY THINGS TO GET IT TO STACK. If you cast Liquid Lightning over and over again in normal scenarios it always over writes the previous one.

Yeah, they are bugging it out. This is not how it works normally; recasting removes the previous lightning splash.

Father

20k dps on a character with 70 CP. There is no arguemuent here its clearly not intended ^_^