1.6 Attributes, Hard Cap Values & Mechanics.

Turelus

Does anyone know if the hard-cap values for 1.6 have been released anywhere or a way to find them otherwise?

I have been testing and doing some theory crafting and was interested in knowing what the capped values are now.

koetty

From what I've read there are no more hard caps. But haven't tested it myself.

Dracane

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

Turelus

Dracane wrote: »

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

Thanks for the information. 32,500... damn that's pretty crazy if it's the case.
I somewhat hope that ZOS will be a bit more open with the mechanics and values of attributes for 1.6 as prior to this we had to go off testing from players to learn all the information we have.

Dracane

Turelus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

Thanks for the information. 32,500... damn that's pretty crazy if it's the case.
I somewhat hope that ZOS will be a bit more open with the mechanics and values of attributes for 1.6 as prior to this we had to go off testing from players to learn all the information we have.

There is not much to say actually. Since the caps are gone.
We know, that Spell damage is 10 times stronger than Magicka, same for stamina and weapon damage.

So what else do we need to know ?

Rune_Relic

Dracane wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

Thanks for the information. 32,500... damn that's pretty crazy if it's the case.
I somewhat hope that ZOS will be a bit more open with the mechanics and values of attributes for 1.6 as prior to this we had to go off testing from players to learn all the information we have.

There is not much to say actually. Since the caps are gone.
We know, that Spell damage is 10 times stronger than Magicka, same for stamina and weapon damage.

So what else do we need to know ?

Is weapon and spell damage/resist affected by attribute point bias ?
Attribute were supposed to make a build much more meaningful....unique even
[aside from the resulting magicka/stamina/health max]
Some skills are now based off level rather than attribute point for instance.

Dracane

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

Thanks for the information. 32,500... damn that's pretty crazy if it's the case.
I somewhat hope that ZOS will be a bit more open with the mechanics and values of attributes for 1.6 as prior to this we had to go off testing from players to learn all the information we have.

There is not much to say actually. Since the caps are gone.
We know, that Spell damage is 10 times stronger than Magicka, same for stamina and weapon damage.

So what else do we need to know ?

Is weapon and spell damage/resist affected by attribute point bias ?
Attribute were supposed to make a build much more meaningful....unique even
[aside from the resulting magicka/stamina/health max]
Some skills are now based off level rather than attribute point for instance.

Sorry, I don't understand the question

madangrypally

Attributes are a separate stat and will not change stats like spell/weapon damage, stat regeneration, or how much a defensive maneuver cost.

They do come with other effects aside from the resulting magicka/stamina/health max.

Health: More health a player has the more damage they can take before they die. (lol). A few damage shields scale from Max Health: Sun Shield, Bone Shield, and Shield Assault for example.

Magicka: More magicka a player has the more spells they can cast. (lol). A few damage shields scale from Max Magicka: Conjured Ward, Annulment for example. Magicka abilities damage scale based on a players Max Magicka.

Stamina: More stamina a player has the more stamina abilities they can use. (lol). A few damage shields scale from Max Stamina: Brawler for example. Stamina abilities damage scale based on a players Max Stamina. Defensive abilities cost a percentage of a players base stamina not max stamina. Thus more stamina means more defensive abilities can be used.

Turelus

IIRC the damage of skills will still be improved by the relevant attributes which it requires, how much each point of attribute gives in points of damage I wouldn't know however.

Does Spell Resistance (SR) + Elemental Resistance (ER) still work in the same ways and if so how much ER+SR is needed now to gain the 50% mitigation cap on that element.

Does Spell Damage value balance the same as Weapon damage values now, or do you still get more per point in Spell Damage over Weapon Damage (meaning WD is always going to look higher on the sheet).

If the above is true do Ultimates take their choice in damage from the value number or the damage that is equivalent to?


ZOS said in the guild summit that most players don't dive this deep into things so they won't care, however for a lot of PVE and PVP players it's important to understand exactly how the mechanics and values are working to get the best out of their classes.

ToRelax

Turelus wrote: »

Does Spell Damage value balance the same as Weapon damage values now, or do you still get more per point in Spell Damage over Weapon Damage (meaning WD is always going to look higher on the sheet).

It's dependent of the coefficient in the skill's formula, I don't know wether they are higher for magicka or stamina abilities usually in 1.6.

Turelus wrote: »

If the above is true do Ultimates take their choice in damage from the value number or the damage that is equivalent to?

I tested Overload a bit, I guess other ultimates won't work much different:

It scales off the higher damage stat and the higher resource pool, but it uses only spell critical chance and spell penetration.

So if you have for example 10k magicka, 20k stamina, 2k spell damage and 1.5k weapon damage, it will scale off stamina and spell damage.

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS said in the guild summit that most players don't dive this deep into things so they won't care, however for a lot of PVE and PVP players it's important to understand exactly how the mechanics and values are working to get the best out of their classes.

I can't understand anyone not "diving this deep into things" and am a bit annoyed of the little information the UI gives.

derpsticks

They should publish all of the nitty gritty details and formulas. Even if someone uses them to find the bestest most awesomest build there is. At the very least publishing all the numbers etc would allow those people that dive in deep to help zos by reporting their findings. Its like zos doesn't want people to know this info even if it means players could spot imbalances and bugs a mile away. If players knew the specifics, gave proper and detailed feedback, zos could fix so many problems sooner.

Enough of this guesswork, give me those pie charts they talked about during the summit. Give me the exact formulas as they are intended to work. Give me those coefficients and damage ranges for skills. Give me the exact drop rates of all lootables. Let me access all this from the api. Give me a complete listing of every mobs stats and skills. Tell me exactly what stacks with what. If they did this I would actually use the info to help them make the game better.

Zos would we wise to let all of those dive too deep type players help them.

Grasshopper

I started testing and I could not hit a hardcap hp with over 66k hp.

Nightblade + Imperial + Nighblade passive/Shadow health passive + health armor + health bonuses + entropy + full attributes health.

As for armor, we still need to test, but the cap might have been raised since there is no softcap, as soon as we get another character copy or live you should be able to hit it.

NoRefunds

There are a lot of hidden mechanics and bugs that you can only find out by testing with add-ons like FTC, this gives a huge advantage to players that do this kind of testing over normal players that simply trust tooltips and such

madangrypally

Grasshopper wrote: »

I started testing and I could not hit a hardcap hp with over 66k hp.

Nightblade + Imperial + Nighblade passive/Shadow health passive + health armor + health bonuses + entropy + full attributes health.

As for armor, we still need to test, but the cap might have been raised since there is no softcap, as soon as we get another character copy or live you should be able to hit it.

Armor has been tested by multiple people.

Results are: ~32500 Armor = 50% Damage Mitigation. This is damage mitigation cap from armor.

I was able to get my armor over 36,000 and i still only had 50% damage mitigation. So once past 32,500 the damage mitigation stops even if you stack more armor.

I found it was actually much easier to get to spell resist damage mitigation cap then it was for armor (in medium and heavy armor). This will likely be fixed once they do fix the buggy champion points.

Like an above poster stated: ~650 Armor = 1% damage mitigation.

Please note some abilities reduce damage taken. This is not part of the 50% damage mitigation. IE: Nords 6% reduced damage taken, Standard of Might reduced damage taken, etc.

Alphashado

EDIT: post removed due to misreading something.

Turelus

As this thread became somewhat of a mechanics thread, does anyone know what the percentage per point for Spell Penetration/Focus is?

Light Armour grants 4736 but that doesn't exactly describe the percentage, does it work point for point vs Spell Resistance or in the same way as other attributes where X value = Y Percentage.

I don't understand why ZOS insist on using values rather than percentages in regards to some of the attributes like critical now. Saying "you get 1000 critical rating" doesn't really help those who haven't sat and figured out that 104.5 points is about 0.5% critical rating.

kaithuzar

Hardcaps can be calculated by basic understanding of data types with programming.
This probably won't paste correctly, but you can google it to get the idea.

Type	Size in bits	Format	Value range
Approximate	Exact
character	8	signed (one's complement)	-127 to 127(until C++14)
signed (two's complement)	-128 to 127
unsigned	0 to 255
integral	16	signed (one's complement)	± 3.27 · 104	-32767 to 32767
signed (two's complement)	-32768 to 32767
unsigned	0 to 6.55 · 104	0 to 65535
32	signed (one's complement)	± 2.14 · 109	-2,147,483,647 to 2,147,483,647
signed (two's complement)	-2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647
unsigned	0 to 4.29 · 109	0 to 4,294,967,295
64	signed (one's complement)	± 9.22 · 1018	-9,223,372,036,854,775,807 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807
signed (two's complement)	-9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807
unsigned	0 to 1.84 · 1019	0 to 18,446,744,073,709,551,615
floating
point	32	IEEE-754	± 3.4 · 10± 38
(~7 digits)	
min subnormal: ± 1.401,298,4 · 10-47
min normal: ± 1.175,494,3 · 10-38
max: ± 3.402,823,4 · 1038
64	IEEE-754	± 1.7 · 10± 308
(~15 digits)	
min subnormal: ± 4.940,656,458,412 · 10-324
min normal: ± 2.225,073,858,507,201,4 · 10-308
max: ± 1.797,693,134,862,315,7 · 10308

Turelus

@kaithuzar thank you for the reply, however I will admit that I have no understanding of the text block. Sadly my understanding of programming is around the level of non-existent. That being said I do have friends who have done programming as part of their professions an might be able to explain some it to me.

Turelus

So with some testing in regards to Spell Penetration.

Apprentice Mundas Stone, said to grant 5% Spell Penetration gives you a bonus 3200 SP, which would break down into 640 SP/Focus = 1% Penetration.

Data I have right now from testing and this thread shows.

Critical Rating 104.5 = 0.5%
Armour/Spell Resistance 650 = 1%
Spell Penetration/Focus 640 = 1%

Menelaos

I asked this in another thread already but got no answers, so here we go: Second try:

Does Spell Penetration value have any effect on healers doing heals on their allies?
In other words, will a high Spell Pen. make heals on others more effective?

Erock25

Menelaos wrote: »

I asked this in another thread already but got no answers, so here we go: Second try:

Does Spell Penetration value have any effect on healers doing heals on their allies?
In other words, will a high Spell Pen. make heals on others more effective?

I would really hope not. Common sense says it shouldn't as they would have to be insane to include a spell resistance check on friendly spells.

madangrypally

Menelaos wrote: »

I asked this in another thread already but got no answers, so here we go: Second try:

Does Spell Penetration value have any effect on healers doing heals on their allies?
In other words, will a high Spell Pen. make heals on others more effective?

No.

Spell Penetration does not effect heals received or given as Heals values are not against a players armor value.

That being said there are abilities that give a heal based on damage caused to the enemy. In this case then spell penetration can effect the heal value because the damage was increased. Am example is Surge. The higher crit I score against the enemy the higher heal I will receive. Thus having spell penetration will effect the damage/crit damage which is what the heal is based on.

Garkin

Menelaos wrote: »

I asked this in another thread already but got no answers, so here we go: Second try:

Does Spell Penetration value have any effect on healers doing heals on their allies?
In other words, will a high Spell Pen. make heals on others more effective?

From my understanding spell penetration is opposite to spell resistance. As your allies doesn't have any resistance against healing spells, higher spell penetration will have no effect for healer.

Turelus

Another update (I should update OP with these at some point)

confirmed around 650 Spell Resistance = 1% Mitigation
672 Elemental Resistance = 0.9 (1%) Mitigation

TehMagnus

Dracane wrote: »

There is a hard cap for armor and spell resistance. I believe, 650 Armor is 1% mitigation. 50% is the hardcap. So 32 500 armor should be the hardcap.

But there are no hardcaps for the other stats I think.

You're right bout hardcap on mitigation.

No hard cap on ressources/regen and wep/magick damage.

themizario

A DK nord in heavy armor standing in a banner. LoL in a wedding dress (future of 1.6)

Jar_Ek

Has anyone tested overcapped resistance vs penetration? I.e. 36k resistant vs 4k penetration attack. Does the overcharge reduce the penetration?

Turelus

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Has anyone tested overcapped resistance vs penetration? I.e. 36k resistant vs 4k penetration attack. Does the overcharge reduce the penetration?

Not yet, might try and grab some guild members to test with tonight.

kaithuzar

To try & break down what I was saying earlier... In programming you often declare a data type such as a character or char meaning like a/A-z/Z, or an integer aka int (number), or even a string (multiple chars/int's/mix)
When defining an integer you can define as signed or unsigned. The difference being whether you want to account for negative numbers or limit how large the number can be.
For instance:
Unsigned int armorRating;
# means armor can be between 0-65535

Signed int armorRating;
#means armor can be between -32767 to 32767

BUT the number could also be declared as short int, or long int, or unsigned short int, signed short int, unsigned long int, or signed long int, or be declared as a floating point number which can also be signed or unsigned & they have different values. It would help to know the language this portion of the game is made in but you can still reasonably conclude things based on knowing these numbers & testing.

Mantic0r3

Erock25 wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

I asked this in another thread already but got no answers, so here we go: Second try:

Does Spell Penetration value have any effect on healers doing heals on their allies?
In other words, will a high Spell Pen. make heals on others more effective?

I would really hope not. Common sense says it shouldn't as they would have to be insane to include a spell resistance check on friendly spells.

well they do include a "miss"-check on friendly spells xD

Edda

Is there somewhere I can read info on this in the game or online? My googling only shows OLD info