1.6 Burning Spellweave

wrathofrraath

Many of us have noticed the change to the spellweave set, thus this post is not meant to cry about nerfs but to discuss the changes followed by my opinion. Recently on 1.6 PTS the spell crit bonus was changed to weapon crit as well as a complete re balance of stamina / magicka skills. The only way I can see this working is the use of evil hunter. Stam builds are getting the most out of evil hunter now (weap power / weap crit / stamina scaling) , and with the new passive weap crit bonus to evil hunter makes it so those who don't focus on weap crit may still have a potential chance for it to deal decent damage (casters). The thing is though not every mob or boss is daedric and I should not have to change my armor before a fight to compensate for a re balance of the game and gain a weaker version of a spell that can be optimized with other gear.

As far as hybrid build though, the change to weap crit does not support the hybrid. If one were to use 5 light armor and wield a stam/ weap based weapon, they would be missing out on the almighty Agility passive that grants a percentage increase to weap dmg. Crit may be balanced due to the light armor passives and 2 piece med + the weap crit from the armor, but if the base damage factor is low, the crits won't be as strong. There is currently no other way to get spell power above 2200 (220.0) before applying the entropy and spell weave procs (brings you up to about 2400) unless your a sorc and you have those nice new spell power boosting passives. On a side note funny how there is one med armor passive that is in essence two light armor passives in one.

After looking at these changes, it simply is not worth it to change the spell crit to weap crit IMO. Sunderflame is still solid for stam dps and Embersheild is still a tank set. Spellweave should be the universal caster's set, not some armor to help me faceroll some dremoras. After all shouldn't the reward for completing the highest level dungeon be a universal armor like the med / heavy versions ? If you want to experiment with hybrid, there are sets out there that combine weap / spell power and even weap crit / spell crit and these sets may be crafted in any med / heavy / light combo that suits your build. Many of us spent way more hours than we should of to get the pieces we need with the right traits, it's a little counter productive to add a weap crit to an armor that grants one of the very few ways to increase spell power with the state casters are in on the PTS.

Joy_Division

Or is short, the countless hours you spent in City of Ash for this set is now all wasted.

wrathofrraath

Joy_Division wrote: »

Or is short, the countless hours you spent in City of Ash for this set is now all wasted.

Pretty much the main reason I am bringing this up. We still have a patch or two to speak up about this before it goes to live. I just wish ZOS would state a reason why they are insisting on having the bonus be weapon crit rather than spell crit if it truly isn't a bug. Especially after they just made every magcika based skill scale off of spell crit. If it is really meant to be weap crit then i guess casters in spellweave will have one mean evil hunter..

timidobserver

I wonder if posting this in the customer support section would at least get a response. I am just curious to hear if it was intentional and the reasoning behind making the set useless.

GreyBrow

The other MAJOR HUGE GLARING ISSUE is that you can get 1000 spell damage by mixing and matching 2 piece sets (worm, adroitness, torug, martial knowledge), which means that all of the set bonuses that give spell power on live were multiplied by a factor of 20, but the 5 PIECE SET BONUS for burning spellweave is only 200 (Multiplied by a factor of 10)

Take into account that the set bonus is only active HALF the time, if you proc on cooldown, and where does that leave you?

It leaves you with a waste of 40 dreugh wax and 200 hours of farming.

In order to make this set viable as an end game raiding set again, you need to increase the proc on the spellweave to something like 1000. (It procs at most half the time, so an average of 500) in order for people to even consider wearing the 5 piece, because the crit and the magicka set bonuses are garbage.

Hell, the only reason you can wear it now and not suffer a tremendous DPS loss is that the spell damage boost you get when it does proc is double the normal set bonus, which means that you have an average increase of 10 spell power, which means that you get 20 total spell power from the 5 piece. You can get 20 spell power from the martial knowledge craglorn vendor trash with only a 4 piece, but at least the crit on live makes it worth something. On the PTS it is worth nothing.

Before all the kids come in and start freaking out that 1000 is way too much spell power, if you're wearing spellweave instead of 4 martial knowledge, 2 adoitness, 2 torgus and 2 worm cult, (1000 spell power 100% of the time) you're already giving up 500 spell power to have 1000 spell power 50% of the time.

This set needs a SERIOUS buff considering the drop rate, the time and effort it takes to farm even one piece, the horribad traits you can get, and the weapon crit,

@Zos_ginabruno This needs to be changed. Seriously, if you keep treating your loyal paying customers who have been with you from day ONE like this, the company is not going to have a very bright future. Tell me, why would I EVER buy another ZOS title, or even recommend that a friend buy one, if I know first hand that eventually, inevitably, they're going to end up wasting more than 200 hours of their life just to get screwed over buy you guys again and again?

Exactly how much do you expect us to put up with before we call it quits?

wrathofrraath

Those of us who earned the title Deadlands Adept (without shortcuts or bugging the fire maw) deserve some sort of explanation. There may only be so many of us but this has been brought up many times with no response. We have been enjoying our time in the planes of oblivion giving Skoria the beat down in under two platforms, and ultimately worked toward assembling our the best set of spellweave we could. I have chest, legs, sash infused and helm, shoulders, boots, and gloves with divine all legendary. I don't even feel motivated to get my final sash with divines anymore. So unless you cough up 56 Dreugh Wax to compensate for this waste of time you put me through, my immersion is diminished by you forcing my to play how you think we should play. Which is apparently theory crafting some sub par way to make weapon crit viable for a pure magicka caster. This wizard stays a wizard, ill quit the game before i am reduced to holding an OP piece of voidsteel with two hands.

Joy_Division

What's really sad is that Greybow is right: wearing 4 pieces the ever-present Craglorn decon trashset "marital knowledge" is objectively superior to wearing 5 pieces of Burning Spellweave.

With your Burning Spellweave you are getting:
2 piece: 933 magicka
3 piece: 177 spellpower
4 piece: nothing
5 piece: 103 average spellpower under the best of circumstances.

With my Martial Knowledge, I get:
2 piece: 933 magicka
3 piece: 177 spellpower
4 piece: 177 spellpower
Plus flexibility to use other sets (read: more spellpower).

That's just bad design - inexcusable as we are paying a subscription.

wrathofrraath

Guess its time to gold out my v14 martial set then, no sense in beating a dead horse. Although the ability to physically inflict burning on my enemies felt other-worldy. What is nerfed to Oblivion shall stay in Oblivion.

HyperToxic

GreyBrow wrote: »

The other MAJOR HUGE GLARING ISSUE is that you can get 1000 spell damage by mixing and matching 2 piece sets (worm, adroitness, torug, martial knowledge), which means that all of the set bonuses that give spell power on live were multiplied by a factor of 20, but the 5 PIECE SET BONUS for burning spellweave is only 200 (Multiplied by a factor of 10)

Take into account that the set bonus is only active HALF the time, if you proc on cooldown, and where does that leave you?

It leaves you with a waste of 40 dreugh wax and 200 hours of farming.

In order to make this set viable as an end game raiding set again, you need to increase the proc on the spellweave to something like 1000. (It procs at most half the time, so an average of 500) in order for people to even consider wearing the 5 piece, because the crit and the magicka set bonuses are garbage.

Hell, the only reason you can wear it now and not suffer a tremendous DPS loss is that the spell damage boost you get when it does proc is double the normal set bonus, which means that you have an average increase of 10 spell power, which means that you get 20 total spell power from the 5 piece. You can get 20 spell power from the martial knowledge craglorn vendor trash with only a 4 piece, but at least the crit on live makes it worth something. On the PTS it is worth nothing.

Before all the kids come in and start freaking out that 1000 is way too much spell power, if you're wearing spellweave instead of 4 martial knowledge, 2 adoitness, 2 torgus and 2 worm cult, (1000 spell power 100% of the time) you're already giving up 500 spell power to have 1000 spell power 50% of the time.

This set needs a SERIOUS buff considering the drop rate, the time and effort it takes to farm even one piece, the horribad traits you can get, and the weapon crit,

@Zos_ginabruno This needs to be changed. Seriously, if you keep treating your loyal paying customers who have been with you from day ONE like this, the company is not going to have a very bright future. Tell me, why would I EVER buy another ZOS title, or even recommend that a friend buy one, if I know first hand that eventually, inevitably, they're going to end up wasting more than 200 hours of their life just to get screwed over buy you guys again and again?

Exactly how much do you expect us to put up with before we call it quits?

I completely feel your pain and I 100% agree with your analysis.

HyperToxic

Even with doubling the spell crit per the patch notes the spell critical for a V14 on old V12 Aether only provides 3.163% and not 4%.

Martial Knowledge + Cyrodills Light + anything else that provides (the massively buffed) spell damage set bonus is vastly superior to end game magicka gear.

Wrath of Imperium 3 piece was nerfed ( more than 1/8 the spell critical and they added half a set bonus of spell damage ) to the point where Cyrodills Light 2 piece is better.
Soulshine was nerfed and will no longer be used as a 3 piece set (perhaps 5 piece?)

The new end game trial gear looks like:
Martial Knowledge > Aether
Martial Knowledge > Burning Spellweave
Martial Knowledge > Infallible Aether
Cyrodills Light > Soulshine
Cyrodills Light > Wrath of Imperium


If many things scaled by 10x then why did spell damage on PST scale by 19.66 times and spell critical by negative 20.925%
On live V14 Cyrodill's Light provides 9 spell damage on PTS it provides 177 spell damage.
On live V12 Aether provides 4% spell critical on PTS it provides 3.163% spell critical.

DeLindsay

If NA gets copied tomorrow in the surprise PTS maintenance they just announced I'll tell you just how high Spell Damage one can get without any procs as I'm fully geared at Legendary on my NB just waiting for 1.6 to hit Live. My setup is:

Adroitness: 2pc
Cyrodiil's Light: 2pc
Torug's Pact: 2pc
Martial Knowledge (full VR14): 5pc

I still think based on my math that 5pc MK is superior DPS to 3pc Cyrodiil's Light (Magicka bonus) but I haven't had the opportunity to properly test that yet thanks to our *cough* PTS. When I tested that setup back in 1.6.2 I only had VR13 Epic MK and only 2/3 SD Glyphs on Jewelry but was around 2130 iirc.

wrathofrraath

Your going to be around 2200 spell damage I've tested the spell damage set up. I also managed to get all the numbers that DK skills can achieve with maximum CP with multiple sets including the martial/adroit/cyro/adroit combo with my main while NA had characters on PTS and can post them for any DKs interested. There are however sets that will improve those numbers if you have a particular race / class synergy.

wrathofrraath

Update 6 dropped today and nothing was fixed about this set,

R.I.P. Burning Spellweave

thank ZOS for wasting your time and giving this set weapon crit for no reason

DeLindsay

2206 BTW on Live. That's without any buffs.

wrathofrraath

DeLindsay wrote: »

2206 BTW on Live. That's without any buffs.

sounds about right, I got my spell damage up to 2500 with spellweave but the whole time I was using it I just kept thinking to myself "this weapon crit is so potinless"

Cuyler

Is there a v14 martial knowledge? if so where is it dropped/purchased?

manny254

Well this sucks. I had planed to use this to dps on my templar as my nb got my v14 Martial Knowledge.

On live my nb is sitting at 2318 spell damage with PVP buffs, but before the major or minor buff. This is without a head and shoulder set on, but with gold every thing but jewelry.

byrom101b16_ESO

wrathofrraath wrote: »

Update 6 dropped today and nothing was fixed about this set,

R.I.P. Burning Spellweave

thank ZOS for wasting your time and giving this set weapon crit for no reason

Yeah... I was in the middle of collecting this set to go with my Valkyn set. Just amazed that they changed this obviously magicka caster LA set to weapon crit.

Surely it has to be a mistake?

I mean they have made stamina and 2H weapon builds so strong, and reduced LA armour by 50% comparatively... now they change a set NO-ONE asked to be changed, and many people have gone to huge time and trouble to get, and made it useless!

For those of you who spent literally days in Vet CoA to get hold of it, then blew vast amounts of Dreugh Wax to upgrade it - my condolences - you have been completely screwed over for no good reason.

I hope they fix this mistake, and indeed, that they even regard it as a mistake that needs fixing!

wrathofrraath

That's some nice spell damage, i got close to that using 2 piece sets and 5 piece destro mastery with the mage mundas. I ended up taking a different route though and I'm really happy with my build. Dk casters are far from dead my friends.

byrom101b16_ESO

Cuyler wrote: »

Is there a v14 martial knowledge? if so where is it dropped/purchased?

The pieces are very expensive on Traders and you'll need to upgrade them from green quality. I hope you are swimming in Dreugh Wax!

Apart from that you can spend days grinding chests in Cyrodiil Delves if you want to be bored out of your skull... but those are the only two ways to get them.

Stuffedduck

Cuyler wrote: »

Is there a v14 martial knowledge? if so where is it dropped/purchased?

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154313/get-your-martial-knowledge-vr14-gear

Otherwise you can check guild stores, on EU the v14 pieces sold for roughly 30k each lately.

wrathofrraath

and on this day ZOS fixed Burning Spellweave

many thanks from all the Deadland Adepts

Joy_Division

wrathofrraath wrote: »

and on this day ZOS fixed Burning Spellweave

many thanks from all the Deadland Adepts

NO they didn't.

The 5 piece bonus is strictly worse that the 171 spell damage bonus you get from easily acquired standard sets.
Look at it again, you gain 200 spellpower IF:

• You use a fire spell
• It procs (20% chance)
• This happens *not* during the 15 second cooldown.

This means at best the set will be active 8 seconds and then be inactive for 15 seconds. So under ideal circumstances this set will grant you that boon half the time, which means its effective bonus is 100.

Recall 2 pieces of Torug's Pact grants 171...always!

This Deadland Adept is still very annoyed that this "reward" set pales in comparison to the Craglorn vednor trash known as Martial Knowledge.

This is still a *huge* nerf to the set because in 1.5 that set bonus was 20 (compared to 8 from standard sets). In 1.6 terms, that 5 piece bonus should be 443!

wrathofrraath

Joy_Division wrote: »

wrathofrraath wrote: »

and on this day ZOS fixed Burning Spellweave

many thanks from all the Deadland Adepts

NO they didn't.

The 5 piece bonus is strictly worse that the 171 spell damage bonus you get from easily acquired standard sets.
Look at it again, you gain 200 spellpower IF:

• You use a fire spell
• It procs (20% chance)
• This happens *not* during the 15 second cooldown.

This means at best the set will be active 8 seconds and then be inactive for 15 seconds. So under ideal circumstances this set will grant you that boon half the time, which means its effective bonus is 100.

Recall 2 pieces of Torug's Pact grants 171...always!

This Deadland Adept is still very annoyed that this "reward" set pales in comparison to the Craglorn vednor trash known as Martial Knowledge.

This is still a *huge* nerf to the set because in 1.5 that set bonus was 20 (compared to 8 from standard sets). In 1.6 terms, that 5 piece bonus should be 443!

Well, every attack I use is a fire spell
It procs EVERY time
and now there is spell crit, so more opportunity to get higher dmg.
The set literally causes burning damage which is huge

The sun set is better for fire, but with spellweave and a templar buff + molten whip slot I will have 3050 spell damage with ardent flame.
atm sun set w/ 2500 spell dmg = spellweave w/ 2850 spell dmg exactly, I have tests and pictures.
the deciding factor between the two was heavy attacks, which were stronger with spellweave. You can't get over 2500 spell dmg with the sun (2600 if there is a templar with you) and just like in 1.5 the sun has the best dmg but has no crit.

The game has changed where buffing yourself doesn't increase dmg of active dots like it used to in 1.5 (test it with molten whip on different bars yourself if you don't believe me), you need to get the buff and then use the dot for it to work, and then whatever spell dmg it was cast with, it will stay at that value. With spellweave (hence the name spellweave) my rotation is 6 spells every 8 seconds, so it procs on my ardent flame bar I now have the option of out dpsing the sun set.

Spellweave will be the caster meta especially for DKs, end of story

timidobserver

wrathofrraath wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

wrathofrraath wrote: »

and on this day ZOS fixed Burning Spellweave

many thanks from all the Deadland Adepts

NO they didn't.

The 5 piece bonus is strictly worse that the 171 spell damage bonus you get from easily acquired standard sets.
Look at it again, you gain 200 spellpower IF:

• You use a fire spell
• It procs (20% chance)
• This happens *not* during the 15 second cooldown.

This means at best the set will be active 8 seconds and then be inactive for 15 seconds. So under ideal circumstances this set will grant you that boon half the time, which means its effective bonus is 100.

Recall 2 pieces of Torug's Pact grants 171...always!

This Deadland Adept is still very annoyed that this "reward" set pales in comparison to the Craglorn vednor trash known as Martial Knowledge.

This is still a *huge* nerf to the set because in 1.5 that set bonus was 20 (compared to 8 from standard sets). In 1.6 terms, that 5 piece bonus should be 443!

Well, every attack I use is a fire spell
It procs EVERY time
and now there is spell crit, so more opportunity to get higher dmg.
The set literally causes burning damage which is huge

The sun set is better for fire, but with spellweave and a templar buff + molten whip slot I will have 3050 spell damage with ardent flame.
atm sun set w/ 2500 spell dmg = spellweave w/ 2850 spell dmg exactly, I have tests and pictures.
the deciding factor between the two was heavy attacks, which were stronger with spellweave, and just like in 1.5 the sun has the best dmg but has no crit.

The game has changed where buffing yourself doesnt increase dmg of active dots, you need to get the buff and then use the dot for it to work with spellweave (hence the name spellweave) my rotation is 6 spells every 8 seconds, so as long as it procs on my ardent flame bar I now have the option of out dpsing the sun set.

Spellweave will be the caster meta especially for DKs, end of story

I would be interested in seeing some videos/testing of this set compared to the current martial knowledge meta. Seems like that cooldown would be killer.

wrathofrraath

timidobserver wrote: »

I would be interested in seeing some videos/testing of this set compared to the current martial knowledge meta. Seems like that cooldown would be killer.

Martial isn't the meta if your a DK the sun set out performs martial by eons especially since they both don't have crit.

Spellweave has crit, more spell dmg than matrial (stop thinking in terms of activly buffing your dps, you need to cast when it procs and it will stay at that value.) and most importantly beats the sun set in terms of raw dmg if you buff yourself the right way.

I would post my build but nirn inferno staff is hitting flame atros for 2k+ more dmg than I can get on my tooltip, so nothing official from me until ZOS clears up the nirn bug

timidobserver

wrathofrraath wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I would be interested in seeing some videos/testing of this set compared to the current martial knowledge meta. Seems like that cooldown would be killer.

Martial isn't the meta if your a DK the sun set out performs martial by eons especially since they both don't have crit.

Spellweave has crit, more spell dmg than matrial (stop thinking in terms of activly buffing your dps, you need to cast when it procs and it will stay at that value.) and most importantly beats the sun set in terms of raw dmg if you buff yourself the right way.

I would post my build but nirn inferno staff is hitting flame atros for 2k+ more dmg than I can get on my tooltip, so nothing official from me until ZOS clears up the nirn bug

Before you start arguing at me lol, I am not challenging your opinion. I'd just like to see some videos/proof of the spellweave set purely out of curiosity.

wrathofrraath

Ahh sorry man didnt mean for that to come out sounding angry. We are all going to have to re test our builds monday, especially those who use nirn and spellweave. Only time will tell but ill put my new results in here for everyone

wrathofrraath

So my tests indicate that spellweave isnt a dk set at all, rather a high elf sorc set. The set proc does not increase the damage of burning and acts in the same way as the dunmer flame talent passive only increasing the damage of fire based class spells. I recommend sorcs to try dps with inferno staff to proc it and execute with the lightning because your elemental passive as a sorc increases the damage of burning so its far more worth it.

as far as my dk build, me and a guildy are getting together to make a video this weekend for yourube and it should help a lot of dk casters out because the build kills it in end game PVE