ZOS: Any definitive solution to put kibosh on emp farming/trading coming down the pipe?

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

I am probably one of the more vocal opponents to the practice of Emperor Farming/Trading, where factions collude to distribute passives associated with former emperor among as many people of a guild or group as possible. The means this is carried out often involves guilds purposely withdrawing from combat, leaving keeps undefended so that they may be taken quicker. This results in the emperor title changing hands very frequently and is facilitated through behaviors such as high-density AP farming, ensuring a small clique has more points than they reasonably should have to ensure they and only they will receive the title.

I witnessed some of the more horrid examples of emperor farming with two 'elite' EP guilds on Volendrung season 1 and 2, and in the past few months I've seen it persist albeit in a more subdued fashion. Most of the time recent emps will fight to hold their position as long as able, only losing the title via pvdooring or sheer numbers. Personally it's better for a emp to reign 1-2 days than 30 mins to 1hr, esp when that faction has greater numbers/skill to enforce.

However lately I've seen behaviors from a guild where they will not commit to defense as ardently as others. I've spotted them either attacking worthless objectives or flat out sitting in a keep while associated ring keeps are under attack. To put it in perspective it's rather discouraging when the defending faction is at 2 bars versus 1-2 bars of the enemy faction, and we lose because 1 of our 2 bars is sitting lollygagging in a keep. One member of this guild even said in zone chat:
"Lol, you can stop defending now." in regards to resistance fielded by people seeking honest, competitive pvp.

I firmly believe PVP should involve competition in its truest form, not princess share-and-sharealike teaparty time. This has been going on since the game launched, and this has to stop if PVP is ever going to achieve a semblance of competition. The passives and title should define a player who is of the highest caliber and commitment, not everyone and their literal mom just because they 'want it really bad" or 'need it for trials".

The nature of shorter campaigns means the top tier of players is always in flux. A player that is in the top ten one week might get burnt out or just unable to commit to as much time and drop from rankings entirely.

But seeing players grind up ridiculous amounts of points then drop server after being deposed is absurd and insulting to the idea of competition. Like I've said before it'd be like having the top-winning NFL teams drop out of playoffs to 'give other teams a chance". Those other teams should have to work their butts off and prove themselves to make it to playoffs, let alone the Superbowl, not be awarded the special star sticker so they don't feel like losers.

I would like to assume there will be changes made to the Emperor mechanics packaged with Imperial City, and what remains to be seen, but I would like to know IS this being looked at promptly and WILL it be given the Barney Fife treatment to prevent this from happening in the future. Some of the most consistently good players I've known to have had/held emp have been utter jerks, but they've stayed at the top because they know their game and are on top of their game. Those are the players Emp should be aimed towards, not a bunch of sorry socks who don't even use proper breach tactics.

Columba

I don't understand how anyone can condone this, I agree.

Cody

emperor traders are pure garbage, and will never amount to anything in this game.

Lava_Croft

The whole Former Emperor buff system should be replaced with something that hands out said buffs based on your PvP rank.

Sallington

Former Emporer shouldn't be anything more than a title. You get buffed when you're emp, you don't when you're not. Easy.

Lava_Croft

Sallington wrote: »

Former Emporer shouldn't be anything more than a title. You get buffed when you're emp, you don't when you're not. Easy.

This would be the best solution if the current system wasn't already in place. There's quite a few people who did honest, hard work to get the Former Emperor buffs and taking those away from them hardly sounds fair.

Junipus

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The whole Former Emperor buff system should be replaced with something that hands out said buffs based on your PvP rank.

ZOS made mention of that around 6 months ago, looking into adopting such a system back when emperor farming was everywhere.

If they plan to implement it, expect it to arrive in 2019 and be broken.

Weberda

Sallington wrote: »

Former Emporer shouldn't be anything more than a title. You get buffed when you're emp, you don't when you're not. Easy.

I agree with this 100%.

The actual event that OP is referring to occurred on Haderus on Saturday. The EP emp at the time actually "requested" that we not defend because his guild had other players which they wanted to make emp (this indeed happened on Sunday).

The response was negative to the extreme. In order to fix this maybe they should just do away with the position. And there should be a way to hold guilds accountable for this kind of thing. I realize that it is up to the players to basically police the game but it's very difficult to do anything about this kind of thing and it really hurts PVP.

Holycannoli

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Former Emporer shouldn't be anything more than a title. You get buffed when you're emp, you don't when you're not. Easy.

This would be the best solution if the current system wasn't already in place. There's quite a few people who did honest, hard work to get the Former Emperor buffs and taking those away from them hardly sounds fair.

Not fair that we spent all that money only for the game to go b2p either.

Removing the buffs is a good idea.

jrkhan

Trying to get emp legitimately is one of the main reasons I continue to play. I'm "handicapped" by a job and a family in this pursuit. None the less, if the buffs associated with former emp were removed, I'd be greatly disappointed. Punishing everyone because a few people don't acquire it honestly is not a good way to resolve the problem. Add mechanics to make this kind of flipping less possible. Maybe a cooldown before the same faction can emp again, but don't remove the reward itself.

Lava_Croft

Holycannoli wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Former Emporer shouldn't be anything more than a title. You get buffed when you're emp, you don't when you're not. Easy.

This would be the best solution if the current system wasn't already in place. There's quite a few people who did honest, hard work to get the Former Emperor buffs and taking those away from them hardly sounds fair.

Not fair that we spent all that money only for the game to go b2p either.

Removing the buffs is a good idea.

Nice try.

technohic

I'm not sure about removing the buffs, but I think that creates the demand for large guilds who can get control of a monopoly of the emperor title. Should make an alternative path so its not so exclusive yet still requires a long time investment. Maybe max rank PvP?

Anyway; I think for current emperors we could do more. Like, I think it would be cool if they could set what keep will be in the keep capture quest or along those lines. Something that would actually direct their faction in a way. For the factions that do not have an emperor, the current leader should have it.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

technohic wrote: »

I'm not sure about removing the buffs, but I think that creates the demand for large guilds who can get control of a monopoly of the emperor title. Should make an alternative path so its not so exclusive yet still requires a long time investment. Maybe max rank PvP?

Anyway; I think for current emperors we could do more. Like, I think it would be cool if they could set what keep will be in the keep capture quest or along those lines. Something that would actually direct their faction in a way. For the factions that do not have an emperor, the current leader should have it.

Having it top rank isn't very feasible atm considering there's only one person remotely close to that rank and is a do-nothing leecher.

I remember reading somewhere that ZOS originally intended Emperor to be harder to get involving a specific event set in the Imperial Palace, but that had to be scrapped because of time constraints.

I work 8 hours, sleep 8 hours, and do gaming/errands in 8 hours. I don't see myself getting emp because I have a specific playstyle that doesn't support high dps. I don't expect to get emp nor should I.

Many of these types of players who pursue it because it's there aren't even particularly good. They just take advantage of situations and manipulate combat to benefit them exclusively. Heck it reminds me alot of a incident several weeks ago where the native group attempted to set up a distraction only to have a visiting 'elite guild' come over and laugh at us. Meanwhile while they're doing this our keeps are getting backcapped.

Don't get me wrong there are legitimate players who did work hard to earn their buffs, but the way the system exists now NEEDS to change because it doesn't matter if a handful of people are honest about something. If the vast majority exploit it to the point of brokenness it can't be salvaged in its current form.

This is the same situation that facilitated buff servers where you have a relatively small pool of players who feel they and they alone should exclusively benefit from an element of the game, and if the rest of the player population disapproves or infact starts to suffer negatively from such actions, oh well then lawl l2p.

Suru

Emp trading was gone when we had situated "buff" servers, then having buff servers was taboo. TheN people saying, no, you arent entitled to one was just an excuse to emp farm like mad on every server. Mostly haderus.

I don't care for what happens but yea, we made emp farming a thing. Im delighted to seesomeone
from volen

ToRelax

Please just delete those buffs and the former emperor title as well. You may also delete my title, i don't care, could at least become emp again without having to worry...

If people complain about loosing their buffs, ALRIGHT, just give them to EVERYONE cauz that's how much they're actually worth.

Everytime I see some noob get emp it makes me sad, just yesterday I killed some sorc emp who was hard casting Crystal Fragments all the time...

Also #KrisForEmp !

Lava_Croft

ToRelax wrote: »

Also #KrisForEmp !

That would remove the last excuse I have for being a terribad player.

ShadoPanauin

From a logical standpoint, the whole "Emp trading" argument is garbage. Getting emp, losing it and another faction taking it is a part of the game. Get over it.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

It's a logical standpoint that having your faction take emp, then relinquish it within the same day or less, letting the enemy faction take it, then sweep in later to crown a different person emp is NOT part of the game.

Emperor should define skilled players, not whining entitled brats who feel it's do or die for them to have the passive buffs. Like I stated if a concerted effort is made by an emperor to hold onto the throne until circumstances such as being utterly outnumbered or having to tend to RL issues results in them being deposed, they can be considered as legit.

But when one or more individuals, or even an entire guild abstains from combat in order to ensure the ring falls to repeat the process, that is NOT part of the game. ZOS said it themselves some time ago. Whether they will address the issue in the immediate future is something I would like to know, since obviously their pledge of sending ZOS employees to cut the offenders hardlines cannot be feasibly achieved.

Valnas

you should be outnumbered until dethroned unless the opposing factions are braindead or you don't pose a threat

the work entailed isn't worth the passives on a real server ... and the buff servers aren't worth the reign.

stop lobbing out farming like it's obamacare. Farming = fighting in optimal conditions. No losses in a defensable position and an escape if it gets too hot. making ap isn't a crime.

lag deposes most ppl in a night anyway. Them abdicating or letting ppl pass them after is just politics. this is just a part of life, ppl make deals.

ArcanusMagus

If there were a campaign with no emperor crowned regardless of the map, I would play on that server. If there were a server with no ap gain whatsoever, I would play on that server.

The emp traders are destructive to competition and ruin pvp and I would happily sacrifice any alliance rank progression in order to have honest pvp. I, for one, don't need any of the bonuses to incentivize taking territory in Cyrodiil.

I am that fed up with the emp trading.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

It wouldn't be such a contentious issue if the group on Haderus perpetrating said emperor farming conducted themselves with a bit more taste. One or two of them might feel remorseful for their guildmates hooting like mandrills in zone chat about how awesome they are but that doesn't change the fact that 15-20 of them are still hooting like mandrills in zone chat about how awesome they are and that everyone else should suck up to them.

I really would like a response from devs similar to how they responded on the issue of scroll-capping while temple gates are shut. They can't tread on eggshells for so long you stand on the fence you're gonna lose balance and fall and bang your crotch.

Messy1

Cody wrote: »

emperor traders are pure garbage, and will never amount to anything in this game.

LOL

Messy1

Emperor is pretty special; I have not achieved emperor status myself, but there is a time in the future when I want to devote a month to trying to become emperor, however I play exclusively DC that might never happen LOL!

What I think should be implemented is maybe a few other achievements in Cyrodil that grant a skill line that can counteract the Emperor.

*Serious Suggestion
The leader on the board for the lowest population should be able to get "Renegade General" skill line. A few caveats; the player can keep the skill line and be at full power as long as they own the keeps in their faction territory (i.e. the ones that are not part of the inner circle required for becoming Emperor). If the keeps in that faction territory are occupied by other factions then the Renegade general is reduced to the lesser skill line (much like the skill line of the Former Emperor). Now, if the faction becomes the dominant faction and crowns an Emperor and that character player happens to be the "Renegade General" that player will have to decide whether to retain the Renegade General skill line or choose the Emperor skill line, they cannot have both. Also if the player elects to retain the "Renegade General" skill line they can do so and it operates at full power, but they get the title emperor and former emperor, but they just don't have the Emperor skill line.

Well, I hope that makes sense to some folks.

Messy1

Messy1 wrote: »

Emperor is pretty special; I have not achieved emperor status myself, but there is a time in the future when I want to devote a month to trying to become emperor, however I play exclusively DC that might never happen LOL!

What I think should be implemented is maybe a few other achievements in Cyrodil that grant a skill line that can counteract the Emperor.

*Serious Suggestion
The leader on the board for the lowest population should be able to get "Renegade General" skill line. A few caveats; the player can keep the skill line and be at full power as long as they own the keeps in their faction territory (i.e. the ones that are not part of the inner circle required for becoming Emperor). If the keeps in that faction territory are occupied by other factions then the Renegade general is reduced to the lesser skill line (much like the skill line of the Former Emperor). Now, if the faction becomes the dominant faction and crowns an Emperor and that character player happens to be the "Renegade General" that player will have to decide whether to retain the Renegade General skill line or choose the Emperor skill line, they cannot have both. Also if the player elects to retain the "Renegade General" skill line they can do so and it operates at full power, but they get the title emperor and former emperor, but they just don't have the Emperor skill line.

Well, I hope that makes sense to some folks.

Forgot to add, if another player jumps to the top of the leader board for a faction they can supplant the "Renegade General" and become the "Renegade General" themselves; they would have the fully powered Renegade general skill line as mentioned above, provided the requirements are met, and the former Renegade General would have the less powerful version of the Renegade General skill line.

Once again, I hope you folks can follow this idea.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

Messy1 wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

Emperor is pretty special; I have not achieved emperor status myself, but there is a time in the future when I want to devote a month to trying to become emperor, however I play exclusively DC that might never happen LOL!

What I think should be implemented is maybe a few other achievements in Cyrodil that grant a skill line that can counteract the Emperor.

*Serious Suggestion
The leader on the board for the lowest population should be able to get "Renegade General" skill line. A few caveats; the player can keep the skill line and be at full power as long as they own the keeps in their faction territory (i.e. the ones that are not part of the inner circle required for becoming Emperor). If the keeps in that faction territory are occupied by other factions then the Renegade general is reduced to the lesser skill line (much like the skill line of the Former Emperor). Now, if the faction becomes the dominant faction and crowns an Emperor and that character player happens to be the "Renegade General" that player will have to decide whether to retain the Renegade General skill line or choose the Emperor skill line, they cannot have both. Also if the player elects to retain the "Renegade General" skill line they can do so and it operates at full power, but they get the title emperor and former emperor, but they just don't have the Emperor skill line.

Well, I hope that makes sense to some folks.

Forgot to add, if another player jumps to the top of the leader board for a faction they can supplant the "Renegade General" and become the "Renegade General" themselves; they would have the fully powered Renegade general skill line as mentioned above, provided the requirements are met, and the former Renegade General would have the less powerful version of the Renegade General skill line.

Once again, I hope you folks can follow this idea.

Like I said, I'm fairly certain ZOS originally intended emp to be much more challenging to obtain, but obviously time constraints prevented them from implementing their original vision.

I'd settle for a complete revamp of the pvp system as well as emp system so it better rewards players that are skilled and support their faction, rather than use others for their own gains.

Armitas

We need a new system for emperor, one that runs parallel with supporting your alliance rather than perpendicular to it.

Talcyndl

Perhaps fixing pancakes would be a (small) help. At least remove an easily exploitable AP farming method that certain groups use to help pad their AP totals.

Weberda

Armitas wrote: »

We need a new system for emperor, one that runs parallel with supporting your alliance rather than perpendicular to it.

This - 100%. Or remove it from the game entirely. The essence of the Alliance War story line is one of players from a faction banding together to achieve victory via the campaign scoring mechanism. Making it about personal or guild achievement should be left to the Trials.

Asgari

My self and a few others have actually earned the right of Former Emperor and would like to keep our passives that we have put time and effort into earning. However, I too am against Emp farming and trading and that is why i stopped playing on Haderus. After I got it again on Haderus earlier in January it seems DC realized if they showed force there they could pull out wins. Not it just seems they are farming emps there and night capping the map and then abdicating to allow the next to have emp. I cam completely against this practice and something needs to change.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

My self and a few others have actually earned the right of Former Emperor and would like to keep our passives that we have put time and effort into earning. However, I too am against Emp farming and trading and that is why i stopped playing on Haderus. After I got it again on Haderus earlier in January it seems DC realized if they showed force there they could pull out wins. Not it just seems they are farming emps there and night capping the map and then abdicating to allow the next to have emp. I cam completely against this practice and something needs to change.

come back and take emp then hold onto it, and if you get deposed, stay at the top because you are awesome and emp should be for honestly awesome players. And if you feel pressured or bullied into abdicating so 'other people' can have a 'fair shot at it', well then they have to be even more awesomer than you to get it. Simple as that.

;( also I like Pancake. She's a very sweet guinea pig, very plump around the tummy though....

Phaedrus

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

I am probably one of the more vocal opponents to the practice of Emperor Farming/Trading, where factions collude to distribute passives associated with former emperor among as many people of a guild or group as possible. The means this is carried out often involves guilds purposely withdrawing from combat, leaving keeps undefended so that they may be taken quicker. This results in the emperor title changing hands very frequently and is facilitated through behaviors such as high-density AP farming, ensuring a small clique has more points than they reasonably should have to ensure they and only they will receive the title.

I witnessed some of the more horrid examples of emperor farming with two 'elite' EP guilds on Volendrung season 1 and 2, and in the past few months I've seen it persist albeit in a more subdued fashion. Most of the time recent emps will fight to hold their position as long as able, only losing the title via pvdooring or sheer numbers. Personally it's better for a emp to reign 1-2 days than 30 mins to 1hr, esp when that faction has greater numbers/skill to enforce.

However lately I've seen behaviors from a guild where they will not commit to defense as ardently as others. I've spotted them either attacking worthless objectives or flat out sitting in a keep while associated ring keeps are under attack. To put it in perspective it's rather discouraging when the defending faction is at 2 bars versus 1-2 bars of the enemy faction, and we lose because 1 of our 2 bars is sitting lollygagging in a keep. One member of this guild even said in zone chat:
"Lol, you can stop defending now." in regards to resistance fielded by people seeking honest, competitive pvp.

I firmly believe PVP should involve competition in its truest form, not princess share-and-sharealike teaparty time. This has been going on since the game launched, and this has to stop if PVP is ever going to achieve a semblance of competition. The passives and title should define a player who is of the highest caliber and commitment, not everyone and their literal mom just because they 'want it really bad" or 'need it for trials".

The nature of shorter campaigns means the top tier of players is always in flux. A player that is in the top ten one week might get burnt out or just unable to commit to as much time and drop from rankings entirely.

But seeing players grind up ridiculous amounts of points then drop server after being deposed is absurd and insulting to the idea of competition. Like I've said before it'd be like having the top-winning NFL teams drop out of playoffs to 'give other teams a chance". Those other teams should have to work their butts off and prove themselves to make it to playoffs, let alone the Superbowl, not be awarded the special star sticker so they don't feel like losers.

I would like to assume there will be changes made to the Emperor mechanics packaged with Imperial City, and what remains to be seen, but I would like to know IS this being looked at promptly and WILL it be given the Barney Fife treatment to prevent this from happening in the future. Some of the most consistently good players I've known to have had/held emp have been utter jerks, but they've stayed at the top because they know their game and are on top of their game. Those are the players Emp should be aimed towards, not a bunch of sorry socks who don't even use proper breach tactics.

If you really are so adamant about them becoming emp and then leaving the campaign why can't you simply out-gain them in the ranks, become emperor yourself? Are they doing anything that any other player can't do? They gain AP in the same way as anyone else in the campaign, kill enemies, defend keeps, take keeps...etc.

If you really don't want the hated action to take place then take your own action to prevent it.