As a Nightblade, I feel OP

Kevingway

Converted my VR4 character over to the PTS. He's a vampire wearing 5 heavy/2 light, has a mages guild ability on the bar, and one skill from every nightblade tree on that same bar.

So, has anyone else noticed Funnel Health? Let's take a second to worship this divine ability.

In my craptastic gear, this ability does 2446 damage. This number would look more like 1828 except for the fact that I decided to pump my magicka sky high with attribute points, which can be made up for by gear later anyway, so it doesn't matter.

This ability costs me 892 magicka.

wat.

Dear lord. I have a magicka regen of 674 without even trying. I don't think it's even possible for me to run out of magicka, and this is our highest damaging ability with the lowest cost, and it has a healing factor based on damage done, for crying out loud.

Don't even get me started on Entropy when combined with this. Oh, and Grim Focus. And all the little crit tricks we can do. Good thing other classes at least have access to Entropy.

How about that Shadow Image and perma Major Armor and Spell Res? Figure it out for yourselves, guys.

I've tried making templates on the PTS of every other class, and, man, I don't think I can even stand to play them. As much as I'm actually bored of the flavor of nightblades, if Swallow Soul doesn't get nerfed, I don't think I have any other choice in what to play. Does anyone else feel this way? Obviously I haven't tested it out in PvP or extensive PvE content, but... I think the numbers speak for themselves. I don't see why Swallow Soul isn't more in line with Vampire's Bane for Templars, to name one example.

Edit: This should probably be moved to PTS feedback. Whoops.

Gilvoth

here is a 1.6.2 patch note explaining why ...

Champion System:

General
The maximum system limit of 3,600 Champion Points will now be awarded to the Character Template to allow for more testing of the Champion System.
Note: This will cause PvE content to become easier than it was originally balanced for, and is not the intended balance of the system.

Kevingway

Why what? The character I'm playing hasn't invested any champion points, and that has nothing to do with the magicka cost difference between classes.

Kypho

As a Kevingway i feel OP (im an OP shieldstacker lolcerer, so thats why)

Sharee

Kevingway wrote: »

So, has anyone else noticed Funnel Health? Let's take a second to worship this divine ability.

In my craptastic gear, this ability does 2446 damage. This number would look more like 1828 except for the fact that I decided to pump my magicka sky high with attribute points, which can be made up for by gear later anyway, so it doesn't matter.

This ability costs me 892 magicka.

wat.

Dear lord. I have a magicka regen of 674 without even trying. I don't think it's even possible for me to run out of magicka, and this is our highest damaging ability with the lowest cost, and it has a healing factor based on damage done, for crying out loud.

Keep in mind that 2446 damage corresponds to approx. 250-300 damage on live. Also, that healing factor heals according to damage done, so if your target is blocking, the healing becomes negligible, if target has shields, there is no healing at all.

It is certainly a great ability (as long as your target is not a flappy DK - yes, it's a projectile, no, don't ask ) but the only notable change from live is the cost, which i admit surprised me as well, it is now very cheap.

Lynx7386

Youre dealing 2500 damage with it. Players on the pts have 25000+ health. Some other abilities are dealing in the 5000-10000 range, and even heavy attacks are doing over 4000.

Looks underpowered to me.

Kevingway

It's the sustain that bothers me. Sure, those abilities deal massive damage, but good luck spamming them. With damage buffs, of which there are plenty, there's much more damage to be dealt, and certainly not by a VR4 with no champion points.

LegacyDM

Before posting a post claiming to be op why don't you actually do some real pvp testing and not just assume that the numbers make it look OP. Stupid post.

DeLindsay

I'm sorry OP but you don't understand NB's at all if you think that Funnel Health somehow makes us OP. Granted it's a great ability but not the "I-Win" button you make it sound like.

Kevingway wrote: »

How about that Shadow Image and perma Major Armor and Spell Res?

What about Shadow Image? It's a teeny tiny DPS boost with a free one-time teleport to get the NB out of bad situations. And you're mistaken that we get perma Major Ward and Spell Resistance. Even in 7/7 Heavy it's only 11 sec (shorter than Unstoppable in the Heavy Armor tree) and the NB has to use a Shadow ability to gain the buff. I'm not saying it can't BE perma, but it isn't perma just because you put 2/2 points into Shadow Barrier. Also sorry to burst your happy-happy bubble but Major Ward only accounts for ~7.9% Resistance/Armor. that every single other Class can have too since pretty much everyone uses Unstoppable in PvP.

Kevingway wrote: »

Don't even get me started on Entropy when combined with this. Oh, and Grim Focus. And all the little crit tricks we can do. Good thing other classes at least have access to Entropy.

So you say don't even get me started on Entropy but then qualify that ALL Classes have access to it, lols. Grim Focus is a decent DPS boost in PvE, not as cool as you think in PvP, even with the recent 1.6.2 change to how it handles Shields.

Spangla

Kevingway wrote: »

Converted my VR4 character over to the PTS. He's a vampire wearing 5 heavy/2 light, has a mages guild ability on the bar, and one skill from every nightblade tree on that same bar.

So, has anyone else noticed Funnel Health? Let's take a second to worship this divine ability.

In my craptastic gear, this ability does 2446 damage. This number would look more like 1828 except for the fact that I decided to pump my magicka sky high with attribute points, which can be made up for by gear later anyway, so it doesn't matter.

This ability costs me 892 magicka.

wat.

Dear lord. I have a magicka regen of 674 without even trying. I don't think it's even possible for me to run out of magicka, and this is our highest damaging ability with the lowest cost, and it has a healing factor based on damage done, for crying out loud.

Don't even get me started on Entropy when combined with this. Oh, and Grim Focus. And all the little crit tricks we can do. Good thing other classes at least have access to Entropy.

How about that Shadow Image and perma Major Armor and Spell Res? Figure it out for yourselves, guys.

I've tried making templates on the PTS of every other class, and, man, I don't think I can even stand to play them. As much as I'm actually bored of the flavor of nightblades, if Swallow Soul doesn't get nerfed, I don't think I have any other choice in what to play. Does anyone else feel this way? Obviously I haven't tested it out in PvP or extensive PvE content, but... I think the numbers speak for themselves. I don't see why Swallow Soul isn't more in line with Vampire's Bane for Templars, to name one example.

Edit: This should probably be moved to PTS feedback. Whoops.

VR4 - You dont know what op means.

Unfortunately zos will probably listen to this and think nb's r ok.

Spangla

Having read the post im pretty sure this is a troll.

Kevingway

On templated characters, between all classes and wearing the same gear, Funnel Health still has the best cost-to-damage ratio. But I suppose if the community at large feels it's fine, I can accept that.

Also, Shadow Image with its free teleport, assuming you keep shadow image up throughout the fight, allows you to time a permanent Major Ward/Armor if you teleport as soon as the buffs expire, for only the cost of the original cast of Shadow Image. Compared to any of the skills ingame that grant this buff for a measly 6 seconds or however long, this is a steal for the added damage/utility of the Image.

It's not a troll, though I'm surprised at what many people consider overpowered. Burst abilities are obviously going to be stronger, such as Grim Focus (which, by the way, has a lower cost than every other burst ability I'm aware of ingame + a free 8% damage boost), but their cost prevents them from being spammed in a scenario that warrants their use.

It sounds like the major problem, as always, is with damage shields. Nobody appreciates theorycrafting anymore because one tactic trumps all, and I'm not seeing anything that can overcome that tactic.

What is the current NB meta in pvp, barring strictly bow stamina builds?

DeLindsay

Kevingway wrote: »

What is the current NB meta in pvp, barring strictly bow stamina builds?

Generally 1H/Shield + Resto staff -or- Destro + Resto, both using Light Armor with cost reduction Glyphs. You want good Magicka and decent Health/Stamina. I'm not gonna cover it all but instead point you to THIS thread. @Araxleon and @Sypher are 2 of the better 1vX NB's out there.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

NB is OP in 1v1 if you know what you are doing. I love NB and honestly am pretty excited about 1.6. Probably gonna go swallow soul instead of funnel health this time around. I still need to read up more on ultimate generation in 1.6. Swallow soul/funnel health is a nice skill but I certainly would not call it OP.
Combined with rapid regeneration it at least gives us some heals considering our class has no self burst heals.

The passive that gives us a lot of armor and spell resistance is nice. I know others can use immovable but considering the amount I use concealed weapon I will technically always have the buff not to mention I'm attacking while getting the defensive buff which unlike immovable is purely defensive. I would give a bit more credit to this passive for those who think otherwise.

Shadow image is great and it helps me a lot not only in 1v1 but in group PvP. 1v1 its a great debuff on the enemy and I love to use it to get out of melee range quickly and give myself a second to either reposition or cast another ability before the enemy can get back to me. It's nice in groups because I can choose a target of opportunity, cast shadow image, teleport strike in, do my thing and kill the person, and shadow image teleport back to shade and be good to go again.

Grim focus looks nice on paper but I am not sure how good it will be in PvP. I would rather have sap essence or power extraction on my bar and use the skill to get my 20% extra damage instead of the 8% from grim focus morph. Sounds good for PvE though.

I had to change my build slightly considering the majority of my skills are now stamina based in 1.6. However, my new magicka build seems pretty B.A. none the less with great utility as well and has been tested. Now If I could only decide out of the 4 skills I am looking at for the last available skill slot lol. Gonna theory craft a new tanky PvP build as well and see how that works out (have not tested).

Draehl

I'll also be going 5 heavy/ 2 light, with resto+destro, siphoning strikes (stacking magicka as you said to help with the regen from this skill), shades, funnel health, grim focus, piercing mark, etc. Probably vampire too. It will make for a great 1v1 sustained damage/attrition type build- a true hybrid of sorts and effective at sustained damage, healing, and durability. Though I don't think it will be particularly worrysome or OP in the grand scheme of things. It won't be able to pump out enough damage, particularly burst, and I believe will have magicka issues if forced to spam too hard. It will definitely be one of the most viable hybrids/self contained type builds, good for soloing, etc. but particularly in PvP groups and trials having a focused role is going to be more valuable.

Cody

Funnel heath does about 2.5K damage on PTS, most players have about 25K health. the ones that don't have A LOT of stamina and/or magicka, and can roll dodge/ block all of your casts with shields. Just sitting there spamming it will leave you open to someone jumping to your side and gutting you before you can turn around to continue your funnel health/swallow soul spam; and at the rate blocks go down in 1.6 as of now..... block casting it the entire battle is no longer an option.

Trust me, there are more "OP" things to worry about than strife.

Dekkameron

Spamming funnel health whilst blocking is a great way to take down world bosses with little to no effort, but OP? Nope.

Pangnirtung

Spangla wrote: »

Having read the post im pretty sure this is a troll.

Definitely a DK or Sorc posting this LOL.

Kuro1n

1/10 troll OP, if you are going to try to get a class nerfed then at least write something relatively close to reality.

olemanwinter

This thread is why the LOL button existed

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Kevingway wrote: »

It's the sustain that bothers me. Sure, those abilities deal massive damage, but good luck spamming them. With damage buffs, of which there are plenty, there's much more damage to be dealt, and certainly not by a VR4 with no champion points.

why would you, or anyone who plays a class in question, come here hours before release to state my X skill is OP? When many others here have spent weeks on the PTS and not one of them has posted or come the the conclusion that the NB is in anyway overpowered?

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Youre dealing 2500 damage with it. Players on the pts have 25000+ health. Some other abilities are dealing in the 5000-10000 range, and even heavy attacks are doing over 4000.

Looks underpowered to me.

players on pts also have 3600 CP

Cody

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Kevingway wrote: »

It's the sustain that bothers me. Sure, those abilities deal massive damage, but good luck spamming them. With damage buffs, of which there are plenty, there's much more damage to be dealt, and certainly not by a VR4 with no champion points.

why would you, or anyone who plays a class in question, come here hours before release to state my X skill is OP? When many others here have spent weeks on the PTS and not one of them has posted or come the the conclusion that the NB is in anyway overpowered?

the NB is not OP. the class still lacks a good class based self heal and a class based damage shield; putting its survivalbility at a bare minimum unless one uses a resto staff.

Hawke

Cody wrote: »

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Kevingway wrote: »

It's the sustain that bothers me. Sure, those abilities deal massive damage, but good luck spamming them. With damage buffs, of which there are plenty, there's much more damage to be dealt, and certainly not by a VR4 with no champion points.

why would you, or anyone who plays a class in question, come here hours before release to state my X skill is OP? When many others here have spent weeks on the PTS and not one of them has posted or come the the conclusion that the NB is in anyway overpowered?

the NB is not OP. the class still lacks a good class based self heal and a class based damage shield; putting its survivalbility at a bare minimum unless one uses a resto staff.

LOL! Better heals than sorcerer.

Kuro1n

Hawke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

the NB is not OP. the class still lacks a good class based self heal and a class based damage shield; putting its survivalbility at a bare minimum unless one uses a resto staff.

LOL! Better heals than sorcerer.

Um no. Pet heal resummon > all?

Lava_Croft

NB OP.

Cody

Hawke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Kevingway wrote: »

It's the sustain that bothers me. Sure, those abilities deal massive damage, but good luck spamming them. With damage buffs, of which there are plenty, there's much more damage to be dealt, and certainly not by a VR4 with no champion points.

why would you, or anyone who plays a class in question, come here hours before release to state my X skill is OP? When many others here have spent weeks on the PTS and not one of them has posted or come the the conclusion that the NB is in anyway overpowered?

the NB is not OP. the class still lacks a good class based self heal and a class based damage shield; putting its survivalbility at a bare minimum unless one uses a resto staff.

LOL! Better heals than sorcerer.

yet still has to use a heal from another skilline.... meaning NBs have no self heals.

maybe if one could throw in the crappy heal from siphon it COULD be better than sorcerers.... but i doubt it due to the pet thing.

Sav72

Go try your theory in PvP, and get ( Block and Absorb) messages. Then tell me how OP we are.

Spangla

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NB is OP in 1v1 if you know what you are doing. I love NB and honestly am pretty excited about 1.6. Probably gonna go swallow soul instead of funnel health this time around. I still need to read up more on ultimate generation in 1.6. Swallow soul/funnel health is a nice skill but I certainly would not call it OP.
Combined with rapid regeneration it at least gives us some heals considering our class has no self burst heals.

The passive that gives us a lot of armor and spell resistance is nice. I know others can use immovable but considering the amount I use concealed weapon I will technically always have the buff not to mention I'm attacking while getting the defensive buff which unlike immovable is purely defensive. I would give a bit more credit to this passive for those who think otherwise.

Shadow image is great and it helps me a lot not only in 1v1 but in group PvP. 1v1 its a great debuff on the enemy and I love to use it to get out of melee range quickly and give myself a second to either reposition or cast another ability before the enemy can get back to me. It's nice in groups because I can choose a target of opportunity, cast shadow image, teleport strike in, do my thing and kill the person, and shadow image teleport back to shade and be good to go again.

Grim focus looks nice on paper but I am not sure how good it will be in PvP. I would rather have sap essence or power extraction on my bar and use the skill to get my 20% extra damage instead of the 8% from grim focus morph. Sounds good for PvE though.

I had to change my build slightly considering the majority of my skills are now stamina based in 1.6. However, my new magicka build seems pretty B.A. none the less with great utility as well and has been tested. Now If I could only decide out of the 4 skills I am looking at for the last available skill slot lol. Gonna theory craft a new tanky PvP build as well and see how that works out (have not tested).

NB is not op 1v1 - If this was the case a nb would have won the arena dueling tournament.

DK won the tournament though of course,

DK vs DK was the final,

There were no nb's in the semi final.

In fact i'm pretty sure a NB didn't even make it to the quarter finals.

Yet ZOS continue to ostrich.