Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
A random guy’s suggestion(s) for Champion System and/or end game content.
joseph.c.altmanpub19_ESO
Soul Shriven
To anyone who happens to read this, I would like to start off by disclosing that this post is meant to express my personal ideas regarding the Champion System and/or future end game content. My ideas may not reflect those of any other ESO player and I am not representing any guild or alliance in this post. Furthermore, I do not claim to be an expert on end game content within ESO or MMO’s in general. I am simply an average ESO player playing my first real MMO and second TES game. I have one V14 toon, a few V5-V9 toons and several Lvl 10-30 toons. Thus far, I have not played any of the Trials or DSA but I am working my way towards that. With that being said I hope you find my suggestions as useful as any major ESO you-tuber/live streamer/guild etc. Thank you for reading this if you choose to continue.
After playing 1.6 on the PTS and reading all the feedback (good and bad) on the forums, I really started to think about why the Champion System is needed and/or if there is a better way to implement it. I then quickly remembered that working my way through the Vet ranks was a long process and the Champion System is meant to replace that. However, now that it has taken this long to develop and I was forced to play the current system, I actually forgot why I wanted a change in the first place.
Furthermore, now that I have worked my way through the Vet ranks, I would be really disappointed if I was forced to rebuild my toons the way the current Champion System is presented in 1.6. I say rebuild because as a lot of people have mentioned, I feel very weak compared to my same build on live. This could be due to a number of reasons which have been mentioned by others already, so I will not waste time discussing that here.
In writing this I have to remind myself (and others) that the Champion System on the PTS is 1) not the final product that will be released on live with 1.6.X and 2) is only in phase 3 of implementation and it is subject to change. We do not know what ZOS’s plans are for the final phase (ZOS may not even know the plans for phase 4 yet) but I think we all need to keep this in mind when providing feedback/complaints/suggestions about the 1.6 patch on PTS.
Finally, ZOS, if this post is better fit on another section of the forums, please feel free to move it. This was written as a response to playing and testing the Champion System (1.6) on the PTS but I realize it may not reflect specific changes/suggestions to 1.6.
Without further ado, my suggestions for the Champion System and end game content:
1) Please let me keep my current “rank” with all current stats.
There has been a lot of speculation that when the Veteran ranks are removed we will all be reduced to Lvl 50. I do not believe I have read anything confirming or denying this from ZOS but my suggestion would be to simply remove the word “veteran” and convert the ranks to the equivalent level. Meaning, if I am Vet 14, I would then become Lvl 64. If I am Vet 8, I would become Lvl 58… etc. I believe this would reduce the amount of changes needed to the current stats, gear, food, materials as everything could be converted to this “measurement.” After all the work I put into getting to Vet 14, it would be really discouraging to go back down to Lvl 50 no matter how the stats are worked out.
Additionally, I completely understand the reason for increasing all stats by “X” in order for us to “see the difference” when placing a Champion Point in 1.6. However, I would much prefer to have the current stats remain and simply add several decimal places to the end of the numbers. I feel this would allow a smoother transition into the Champion system yet still allow us to “see” the changes (even if it is a few decimals). I personally do not care about what the stat numbers are, I only care how my decisions feel in game after placing a Champion point.
2) Why not keep the current system and add the Champion System on top of it?
As stated above, I would prefer to switch to lvl 64 after the “vet” ranks are removed. In order to get to lvl 64, I realize that one would still need play through the other factions’ zones to level up. In my opinion, the problem with this currently is that I am “forced” to play Caldwell’s silver and gold. I really did not mind doing these quests the first time through but after several Alts, all the questing is getting old. My recommendation would be to remove Caldwell’s silver and gold as many, many, many, people have already suggested. Please let me go to any zone I wish after I complete the main story.
With that said, in order to have both systems, I suggest reducing the XP needed to level through what I am referring to as Lvl 50-64. I suggest reducing the XP needed for each level by one of the following: 1) half of what it is currently to ~500,000 2) by an amount equal the XP needed from Lvl 49 to Lvl 50 or 3) by an amount equal to collecting all Skyshards, killing all group bosses, defeating all Dolman’s and squishing the mobs standing in my way while unleashing my path of destruction through a particular Zone. The zones can still be Lvl specific such as a lvl 51 zone, Lvl 55 zone, Lvl 60 - 64 (Craglorn) etc. The quests in each zone should be optional and the reward for doing them is the 3-4 skill points that are already rewarded at the end of the main zone quests. This would greatly reduce the time to level from 50 – 64 while still allowing players the chance to pay the other faction quests if they want to (I enjoyed them the first time).
With this suggestion, my idea would be to unlock the Champion System at lvl 50 but not gain the full potential until lvl 64. Meaning, each time I level I gain five (5) Champion Points, one (1) attribute point and one (1) skill point. I do not gain Champion Points based off XP until I reach lvl 64.
(Before anyone rips apart this suggestion let me explain my reasoning a little bit). I feel that it’s only fair for a new player to only have 70 Champion Points once they reach “Lvl 64.” I worked so hard to get to V14 and I will only have 70 Champion Points when 1.6.X is relaesed. Therefore, a new player should have to work to get those same 70 points. They would still have the advantage of getting from Lvl 50 to Lvl 64 much, much faster than I did but I won't feel cheated for my time spent getting to V14. NOTE: You are now probably thinking that this would separate players even more but I will cover that later.
3) What about adding a new zone that includes the addition of a new max Level?
I presume the last thing most people would want to do is grind out another level but hear me out. Why not create a “Champion” zone. This zone would become a “lvl 65” zone that will allow players to reach level 65. Why level 65 you ask? Because I like things to be even… errr, in this case odd. What I mean is, there is currently V5 food/drink and 1.6 implements the new V10 food/drink. This food would become Lvl 55 and Lvl 60 food/drink in my system and I feel it only makes sense to have Lvl 65 “Max Level” food/drink to even it out.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a new level just so I can have new food/drink. The new zone would add new content for players to gain XP and Champion Points as you will see below.
4) Please let me have other ways to earn Champion Points and other ways to spend them!
If nothing else, I hope that most players agree with my following suggestion. I would like to have ways to earn Champion Points other than through XP. My suggestion adds upon the “Champion Zone” as outlined above. In the Champion Zone, let’s say that completing the zone quests will grant me X amount of Champion Points, clearing out the delv’s would grant me X amount of Champion Points, killing the group bosses earns me X amount of points and defeating the Dolman’s earns me X amount of points (ON TOP OF) earning Champion points through XP. However, gaining these Champion Points is a onetime occurrence per character and cannot be repeated with said character.
Furthermore, why not add a “Champion” version of all current Dungeons and Trials. For example to enter “Champion Fungal Grotto” or “Champion Crypt of Hearts” I would need to be “Lvl 65” (or it is at least “highly recommended” that I am Lvl 65). The Champion Dungeons and Trials would be vary hard and when my group completes a Champion dungeon or trail, we all gain X amount of Champion Points. This can be repeated as many times as we wish and we can keep earning points with every completion. I believe this would bring even more “repeatability” to content that currently exists while also not rendering current veteran dungeons/trials too easy as we continue to gain Champion Points.
An example of the system would be as follows: From Lvl 1 -45, I can run dungeons on normal mode. From Lvl 45 – 64, I can run dungeons on veteran mode. From Lvl 62 – 64 I can run trials on normal and veteran mode. From Lvl 45 – 64 I can complete the undaunted pledges on normal or veteran mode and earn undaunted gear as the system works now. Upon reaching Lvl 65, I can participate in Champion dungeons and trials and earn champion points on top of earning points through XP. There would then be normal, veteran and champion modes for each dungeon & trial.
By earning Champion Points in different ways, please let me spend them in different ways as well. Why not add “Champion Gear” that I can purchase from a vendor with my Champion Points. This now gives me a very hard choice… do I spend my points on the Champion passives OR… do I save the points to purchase Lvl 65 “Champion Gear.” This would actually give me a reason to continue playing the current Dungeons and Trials multiple times!
I understand that this mostly address PVE as I mostly play PVE. However, the same could be applied to PVP. Why not add “Champion Campaigns” where Lvl 65 players can enter and gain Champion Points based on the amount of alliance points they earn IN ADDITION to the Champion Points they earn from XP. (If a PVP’er wants to expand on this please do. I’m not a PVP’er and do not know what would work best for PVP in this example?). Champion points could then be spent on PVP “Champion Gear” similar to PVE. I believe this would also create less of a separation between PVP’ers as only lvl 65 players would be in the Champion Campaigns. With this system in place, I would not get face rolled as soon as I walk into PVP as a “lvl 50” player with no Champion passives.
5) Can I have a never ending Arena?
I have yet to play DSA but it looks very fun and I am excited to finally experience it. However, why not make an arena that is never ending?
I can feel the trolling coming from what I am about to say but after playing Call of Duty-Zombies for many years, I think it would be fun to have a similar style Arena with never ending waves of mobs to work through and see how many levels we can make it past. I realize this would be a huge undertaking but it could be a PVE game changer.
This new “Champion Arena” could start off at a moderate diffuicalty and continue to get harder and harder as the levels increase. If the group has a complete wipe we start over. With each new level that we complete we gain X amount of Champion points. However, gaining the Champion point is a one time occurrence for each new level each individual unlocked. For example, if my group starts off and we wipe at level 5, we gain 5 champion points. We start again at level 1 but wipe at level 8, we gain only 3 points because we only unlocked 3 additional levels. Furthermore, every 10 levels has a “major” boss. If we take down the boss we can then start at that “10th” level. Basically, if we wipe at level 12 we only have to start at level 10 again. If we wipe at 25, we start at 20… etc.
As a further example, if I am in a group with people who have already made it to level 8 and we wipe at level 7, I would get 7 champion points and they would not get any because they already unlocked the 8th level and already earned those points.
If I wanted to search for a group for the Champion Arena, I could search for others who can start at my “10th”level. SO if i made it to 15, I would search for people to start at level 10. If I made it to level 33, I would search for people to start at level 30.
As we progress through the Champion system and gain the additional passives/gear we would be able to make it to the next Arena level and so on. The leaderboards could be based on who has made it to the highest level. This would create ultimate re-playability.
6) Can I have smaller scale PVP?
I realize I said I do not PVP but I think my main problem with PVP is that the map is just too large and the campaigns are too long for me. My suggestion would be to have instance based PVP events that are no more than an hour long and are 100 v. 100 v. 100. In this example there could be 5 to 7 keeps in a small area and each alliance starts off at a rally point at the top of the hour. The goal is to capture as many keeps as possible within an hour timeframe. Each alliance earns X amount of alliance points for each keep they capture and/or defend. At the end of the hour the alliance with the most alliance points is awarded with X amount of Champion Points. This is not a refined idea but I think something similar would be fun. Heck, maybe the Imperial City could implement this idea somehow?
I think I have already said too much for one post. If you are still reading this, thank you. Please feel free to provide your feedback, additional suggestions or… hate on my ideas alltogehter. Again, this is just one average guy’s suggestions/ hopes for a “Champion System.”
I only wrote this because I was a little disappointed at the current Champion System on PTS. I guess I thought it was going to enhance my current character, not strip me from down what I worked so hard for.
With that being said, I am enjoying most of the changes in 1.6. I am in love with this game and I will continue to play no matter how the Champion System is implemented. I also intend to subscribe to ESO Plus when it comes out. Thanks for a great game ZOS!!
That’s it….I’m out!
Edited by joseph.c.altmanpub19_ESO on 10 February 2015 05:06 After playing 1.6 on the PTS and reading all the feedback (good and bad) on the forums, I really started to think about why the Champion System is needed and/or if there is a better way to implement it. I then quickly remembered that working my way through the Vet ranks was a long process and the Champion System is meant to replace that. However, now that it has taken this long to develop and I was forced to play the current system, I actually forgot why I wanted a change in the first place.
Furthermore, now that I have worked my way through the Vet ranks, I would be really disappointed if I was forced to rebuild my toons the way the current Champion System is presented in 1.6. I say rebuild because as a lot of people have mentioned, I feel very weak compared to my same build on live. This could be due to a number of reasons which have been mentioned by others already, so I will not waste time discussing that here.
In writing this I have to remind myself (and others) that the Champion System on the PTS is 1) not the final product that will be released on live with 1.6.X and 2) is only in phase 3 of implementation and it is subject to change. We do not know what ZOS’s plans are for the final phase (ZOS may not even know the plans for phase 4 yet) but I think we all need to keep this in mind when providing feedback/complaints/suggestions about the 1.6 patch on PTS.
Finally, ZOS, if this post is better fit on another section of the forums, please feel free to move it. This was written as a response to playing and testing the Champion System (1.6) on the PTS but I realize it may not reflect specific changes/suggestions to 1.6.
Without further ado, my suggestions for the Champion System and end game content:
1) Please let me keep my current “rank” with all current stats.
There has been a lot of speculation that when the Veteran ranks are removed we will all be reduced to Lvl 50. I do not believe I have read anything confirming or denying this from ZOS but my suggestion would be to simply remove the word “veteran” and convert the ranks to the equivalent level. Meaning, if I am Vet 14, I would then become Lvl 64. If I am Vet 8, I would become Lvl 58… etc. I believe this would reduce the amount of changes needed to the current stats, gear, food, materials as everything could be converted to this “measurement.” After all the work I put into getting to Vet 14, it would be really discouraging to go back down to Lvl 50 no matter how the stats are worked out.
Additionally, I completely understand the reason for increasing all stats by “X” in order for us to “see the difference” when placing a Champion Point in 1.6. However, I would much prefer to have the current stats remain and simply add several decimal places to the end of the numbers. I feel this would allow a smoother transition into the Champion system yet still allow us to “see” the changes (even if it is a few decimals). I personally do not care about what the stat numbers are, I only care how my decisions feel in game after placing a Champion point.
2) Why not keep the current system and add the Champion System on top of it?
As stated above, I would prefer to switch to lvl 64 after the “vet” ranks are removed. In order to get to lvl 64, I realize that one would still need play through the other factions’ zones to level up. In my opinion, the problem with this currently is that I am “forced” to play Caldwell’s silver and gold. I really did not mind doing these quests the first time through but after several Alts, all the questing is getting old. My recommendation would be to remove Caldwell’s silver and gold as many, many, many, people have already suggested. Please let me go to any zone I wish after I complete the main story.
With that said, in order to have both systems, I suggest reducing the XP needed to level through what I am referring to as Lvl 50-64. I suggest reducing the XP needed for each level by one of the following: 1) half of what it is currently to ~500,000 2) by an amount equal the XP needed from Lvl 49 to Lvl 50 or 3) by an amount equal to collecting all Skyshards, killing all group bosses, defeating all Dolman’s and squishing the mobs standing in my way while unleashing my path of destruction through a particular Zone. The zones can still be Lvl specific such as a lvl 51 zone, Lvl 55 zone, Lvl 60 - 64 (Craglorn) etc. The quests in each zone should be optional and the reward for doing them is the 3-4 skill points that are already rewarded at the end of the main zone quests. This would greatly reduce the time to level from 50 – 64 while still allowing players the chance to pay the other faction quests if they want to (I enjoyed them the first time).
With this suggestion, my idea would be to unlock the Champion System at lvl 50 but not gain the full potential until lvl 64. Meaning, each time I level I gain five (5) Champion Points, one (1) attribute point and one (1) skill point. I do not gain Champion Points based off XP until I reach lvl 64.
(Before anyone rips apart this suggestion let me explain my reasoning a little bit). I feel that it’s only fair for a new player to only have 70 Champion Points once they reach “Lvl 64.” I worked so hard to get to V14 and I will only have 70 Champion Points when 1.6.X is relaesed. Therefore, a new player should have to work to get those same 70 points. They would still have the advantage of getting from Lvl 50 to Lvl 64 much, much faster than I did but I won't feel cheated for my time spent getting to V14. NOTE: You are now probably thinking that this would separate players even more but I will cover that later.
3) What about adding a new zone that includes the addition of a new max Level?
I presume the last thing most people would want to do is grind out another level but hear me out. Why not create a “Champion” zone. This zone would become a “lvl 65” zone that will allow players to reach level 65. Why level 65 you ask? Because I like things to be even… errr, in this case odd. What I mean is, there is currently V5 food/drink and 1.6 implements the new V10 food/drink. This food would become Lvl 55 and Lvl 60 food/drink in my system and I feel it only makes sense to have Lvl 65 “Max Level” food/drink to even it out.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a new level just so I can have new food/drink. The new zone would add new content for players to gain XP and Champion Points as you will see below.
4) Please let me have other ways to earn Champion Points and other ways to spend them!
If nothing else, I hope that most players agree with my following suggestion. I would like to have ways to earn Champion Points other than through XP. My suggestion adds upon the “Champion Zone” as outlined above. In the Champion Zone, let’s say that completing the zone quests will grant me X amount of Champion Points, clearing out the delv’s would grant me X amount of Champion Points, killing the group bosses earns me X amount of points and defeating the Dolman’s earns me X amount of points (ON TOP OF) earning Champion points through XP. However, gaining these Champion Points is a onetime occurrence per character and cannot be repeated with said character.
Furthermore, why not add a “Champion” version of all current Dungeons and Trials. For example to enter “Champion Fungal Grotto” or “Champion Crypt of Hearts” I would need to be “Lvl 65” (or it is at least “highly recommended” that I am Lvl 65). The Champion Dungeons and Trials would be vary hard and when my group completes a Champion dungeon or trail, we all gain X amount of Champion Points. This can be repeated as many times as we wish and we can keep earning points with every completion. I believe this would bring even more “repeatability” to content that currently exists while also not rendering current veteran dungeons/trials too easy as we continue to gain Champion Points.
An example of the system would be as follows: From Lvl 1 -45, I can run dungeons on normal mode. From Lvl 45 – 64, I can run dungeons on veteran mode. From Lvl 62 – 64 I can run trials on normal and veteran mode. From Lvl 45 – 64 I can complete the undaunted pledges on normal or veteran mode and earn undaunted gear as the system works now. Upon reaching Lvl 65, I can participate in Champion dungeons and trials and earn champion points on top of earning points through XP. There would then be normal, veteran and champion modes for each dungeon & trial.
By earning Champion Points in different ways, please let me spend them in different ways as well. Why not add “Champion Gear” that I can purchase from a vendor with my Champion Points. This now gives me a very hard choice… do I spend my points on the Champion passives OR… do I save the points to purchase Lvl 65 “Champion Gear.” This would actually give me a reason to continue playing the current Dungeons and Trials multiple times!
I understand that this mostly address PVE as I mostly play PVE. However, the same could be applied to PVP. Why not add “Champion Campaigns” where Lvl 65 players can enter and gain Champion Points based on the amount of alliance points they earn IN ADDITION to the Champion Points they earn from XP. (If a PVP’er wants to expand on this please do. I’m not a PVP’er and do not know what would work best for PVP in this example?). Champion points could then be spent on PVP “Champion Gear” similar to PVE. I believe this would also create less of a separation between PVP’ers as only lvl 65 players would be in the Champion Campaigns. With this system in place, I would not get face rolled as soon as I walk into PVP as a “lvl 50” player with no Champion passives.
5) Can I have a never ending Arena?
I have yet to play DSA but it looks very fun and I am excited to finally experience it. However, why not make an arena that is never ending?
I can feel the trolling coming from what I am about to say but after playing Call of Duty-Zombies for many years, I think it would be fun to have a similar style Arena with never ending waves of mobs to work through and see how many levels we can make it past. I realize this would be a huge undertaking but it could be a PVE game changer.
This new “Champion Arena” could start off at a moderate diffuicalty and continue to get harder and harder as the levels increase. If the group has a complete wipe we start over. With each new level that we complete we gain X amount of Champion points. However, gaining the Champion point is a one time occurrence for each new level each individual unlocked. For example, if my group starts off and we wipe at level 5, we gain 5 champion points. We start again at level 1 but wipe at level 8, we gain only 3 points because we only unlocked 3 additional levels. Furthermore, every 10 levels has a “major” boss. If we take down the boss we can then start at that “10th” level. Basically, if we wipe at level 12 we only have to start at level 10 again. If we wipe at 25, we start at 20… etc.
As a further example, if I am in a group with people who have already made it to level 8 and we wipe at level 7, I would get 7 champion points and they would not get any because they already unlocked the 8th level and already earned those points.
If I wanted to search for a group for the Champion Arena, I could search for others who can start at my “10th”level. SO if i made it to 15, I would search for people to start at level 10. If I made it to level 33, I would search for people to start at level 30.
As we progress through the Champion system and gain the additional passives/gear we would be able to make it to the next Arena level and so on. The leaderboards could be based on who has made it to the highest level. This would create ultimate re-playability.
6) Can I have smaller scale PVP?
I realize I said I do not PVP but I think my main problem with PVP is that the map is just too large and the campaigns are too long for me. My suggestion would be to have instance based PVP events that are no more than an hour long and are 100 v. 100 v. 100. In this example there could be 5 to 7 keeps in a small area and each alliance starts off at a rally point at the top of the hour. The goal is to capture as many keeps as possible within an hour timeframe. Each alliance earns X amount of alliance points for each keep they capture and/or defend. At the end of the hour the alliance with the most alliance points is awarded with X amount of Champion Points. This is not a refined idea but I think something similar would be fun. Heck, maybe the Imperial City could implement this idea somehow?
I think I have already said too much for one post. If you are still reading this, thank you. Please feel free to provide your feedback, additional suggestions or… hate on my ideas alltogehter. Again, this is just one average guy’s suggestions/ hopes for a “Champion System.”
I only wrote this because I was a little disappointed at the current Champion System on PTS. I guess I thought it was going to enhance my current character, not strip me from down what I worked so hard for.
With that being said, I am enjoying most of the changes in 1.6. I am in love with this game and I will continue to play no matter how the Champion System is implemented. I also intend to subscribe to ESO Plus when it comes out. Thanks for a great game ZOS!!
That’s it….I’m out!
0