ZOS what is your goal with this ability Agony?

Darkonflare15

I am on the PTS testing out this skill. I looked at what the skill looked like before the 1.6 changed and what it looked like now. I also tested the skill and its morphs and see how they work. I also compared it with the other skills and passives in the skill line Siphoning Skills.

Now in general this skill is not useless. I was playing around with the Morph of this skill, Malefic Wreath, and the skill Crippling Grasp. These skills work well with each other. One stuns and does damage after it is broken and the other does burst damage, immobilize and reduce the movement speed of target while also boosting your speed. You can use Malefic Wreath at the beginning of the battle and use crippling grasp to delay the target long enough to get off another Malefic Wreath or another attack.

Now I believe the problem of this skill is that it does not know what it is and most people do not know what this skill does. I also think this skill tries to do too many things that it does not do any of them well. Here is a comparison of what you change in 1.6.

Before

Cast time:1.5 seconds
Stuns enemy for x seconds, effect is broken by damage from any source. After effect ends enemy takes x Magic Damage over 5 seconds.

After

Cast time: 1.2 seconds
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

So the only changes you did to this skill is that you boost how long this skill stun last and lowered the cast time with a little bit of flavor text added. Now the only pro I see for these changes is the lower cast time but added stun time does not really help this skill at all and before I get into why it does not lets look at the morphs.

Prolonged Suffering

Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 7 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Damage over time last for longer.

Malefic Wreath

Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.

Prolonged Suffering is just like the base skill Agony but with a longer dot. The defining trait for both of these skills is that you have a stun and a dot. Stuns work on on all mobs that are not immune them. So this skill is suppose to work on mobs but since it is a single target skill it only work on one mob. Now the problem arises why give a skill which only stuns one enemy more time for the stun, when most mobs in the game becomes a problem when there is three or more of them. This skill is too situational to be use in this way.

Thus, no one would not want to use this on their bar. Plus this skill breaks on damage when most people deal with multiple mobs they use aoe skills so they would not have any use for this skill on their bars.In pvp, this extra time is not going to help because they will easily cc brake this skill. So the extra time really does not help the base skill and this morph. Now the other benefit of this skill is the dot. The dot is ok and does decent damage but that is it. Now when you put a stun that takes a long cast time, takes damage to break, can be easily cc break, and with mediocre dot. For the 1.6 change you should of focused on cast time and the dot damage instead of increasing the stun time or gave it so more utility.

Now the next morph is completely different then the other morph and base skill. Malefic Wreath has the same stun time as the other morph and base skill but when it is broken it does aoe damage and it does 2% more damage for each second the target stays stun. At a glimpse of this morph it seems that it benefits from the longer stun time.Problem with this is that you have to wait for the for 30 secs for full damage. The bad thing about this is the extra damage is less than the initial damage and does not do enough damage.

I thought the point of the 1.6 change was to make combat quicker. No body is going to wait for the skill to do more damage when they can easily do more damage with other skills. Another thing that is bad about this morph is it does aoe damage when the skill is broken. The problem is if you use this on mobs and your far away the mobs that are not stun will agro to you and when the skill breaks the damage only effects the target and none of the other mobs. The only benefit of this skill is to use it when you are close to the enemies in battle while getting hit while channeling the attack then you have to break yourself in order for it to do damage to all the enemies .

The only effective way to use this skill and its morphs is to stun a enemy and than break the stun your self, since the timer is too long, to gain the benefits of the dots and aoe damage from the wreath. The skill wording makes since when the skill actually does damage while they are rooted but instead if only does damage after it is broken. Which is not bad but the extra stun time really does not boost the utility of the this skill since now some mobs can cc break this skill and you cannot use the stun effect on enemies immune to stun, which are the actually enemies you want to use the stun on. Malefic Wreath would be better to hold multiple enemies than just one if it does aoe damage. If not it should just use single target damage since it most useful that way.

Last is the skill line synergy. The skill line is dedicated to resource gathering from enemies while sustaining our self better. Siphoning line has skills like soul shred,strife, and leeching strikes that siphons health. Cripple which siphons movement speed. Drain power that suppose to siphon vigor from the blood dealing magic damage while we gain buffs in attack. The passives is all about increasing magicka, gaining ultimate from potions and skills and increasing healing done. All skills follow the theme of gaining resources from enemies and other sources except Agony.

This skill feels out of place of this skill line. It does not siphon anything, its does not allow gaining or any resource and this skill does not synergize well with other skills other than having it on your bar allows you to gain 3% healing done thanks to a passive but the skill does help with healing others or self healing. So it pretty much useless on a healing spec. I really want this skill to better but it seems ZOS does not know what they want this skill to be. It seems you miss a great chance to make this skill better.

Panda244

It's just like the DK petrify, or Sorceror CC.
Utterly pointless.
It might help when you solo delves, but why use that ability, when you can pick up Sword/Board, get Reverberating Bash, stun MORE than one mob for 15s and negate their healing by 40%.

Bouvin

Agony is still trash. No one will use it.

What is really irritating is that instead of replacing Agony, that no one uses, they replace Haste which some people did use.

They should have replaced Agony with something.

jelliedsoup

That no one uses it? I love the concept, but the execution is terrible.

Elder_III

Great write up OP; I was testing all the NB Siphoning Skills a couple days ago on the PTS and I agree 100% with you. It's completely unappealing to use and ranks as one of my least favorite skills in the entire game, from any class or skill line. How about making it so that it has a much shorter root time, but it does not break the CC when taking damage? A root for a few seconds that doesn't break on the first bit of damage actually has some usefulness.

Soulac

Panda244 wrote: »

It's just like the DK petrify, or Sorceror CC.
Utterly pointless.
It might help when you solo delves, but why use that ability, when you can pick up Sword/Board, get Reverberating Bash, stun MORE than one mob for 15s and negate their healing by 40%.

Petrify is instant.

Darkonflare15

Yeah petrify is instant and Sorcs have Rune Prison morph that does not break when using dots. These skills been treated badly as well but this is about Agony. It just do not make sense for a ability that causes aoe damage after it broken but gets it time increased while we have encase which is suppose to hold a target out of combat did not get its time increase. Plus the skill glitches when you wait for the full 30 secs.

prototypefb

Soulac wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

It's just like the DK petrify, or Sorceror CC.
Utterly pointless.
It might help when you solo delves, but why use that ability, when you can pick up Sword/Board, get Reverberating Bash, stun MORE than one mob for 15s and negate their healing by 40%.

Petrify is instant.

petrify is instant and AOE, agony is just crap single target stun with a cast time lol, useless, not worth a skillpoint at all, more than a waste of space on skillbar.

ThatHappyCat

If I'm not mistaken all Disorients now go through Block.

On the other hand NBs already have Fear so. But I guess it's a long-ranged option for block-busting.

prototypefb

agony should be changed to instant cast + dot and aoe morph damage should be increased significantly

TheBull

Panda244 wrote: »

It's just like the DK petrify, or Sorceror CC.
Utterly pointless.
It might help when you solo delves, but why use that ability, when you can pick up Sword/Board, get Reverberating Bash, stun MORE than one mob for 15s and negate their healing by 40%.

No, petrify goes through block on PTS.

Agony needs to go through block since it has a cast time. If someone is blocking or in any unnatural position, you do the cast animation but the spell fizzles.

Brizz

How Brizz would Fix:

Agony
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 7 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Player gains a shield for [x] Damage plus 2% for each second the stun duration had left.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.

How would you fix it?

EsORising

They should make it a 30 sec sleep no damage but if anyone wakes target it AOE sleeps everyone around the target that woke up. Would be interesting to see what people do with this; Or have a morph called nightmare and player is feared after waking up or even aoe fear at woken player location.

Fatalyis

Honestly, I'd be okay if it was just another DoT and they removed the stun all together. Maybe do something similar to an ability I remember from Rift (Defile, maybe?)

Agony: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 10 seconds.

Prolonged Suffering: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 15 seconds. Damage increases by 20% every 3 seconds.

Malefic Wreath: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 10 seconds. When effect ends, the target bursts with concussive energy, stunning any enemies within a 10m radius.

Cody

scrap it and replace it. As long as it ends when damage is done, the skill is useless.

Vordae

Agony, petrify, and rune prison have potential. They need to be unblock able and can't be CC broken. They should be dodgable. They should be useful in small scale PvP situations to lock down 1 target as long as nobody attacks the locked down target. Ally's of the locked down person can cleanse it to free the ally plus you could add a reverse synergy with a short cast time that an ally of the locked down target can come over and channel. If they don't get interrupted channeling they free the target.

Vordae

Another idea is change the morphs. One could be if the skill is Cc broken drains target of all stamina. Now the person has to choose. Stay CC'ed and see if an ally can free me or break it and risk having no stamina if player has that morph.

The other morph could make the skill aoe.

I have a totally different idea for this skill as well but that's for a suggestion post I'm going to write about Damage Over Time skill when I get home from work tonight.

Suntzu1414

agonys 1.6 update = lip stick on pig.


replace with self-heal.


Kill Well
ST

Darkonflare15

Cripple does what Agony does but better. Its has morph that immobilize the target and does burst damage while doing a dot. Plus it siphons movement speed while giving you movement speed. Even though this skill does not give resources like the other skill, it stills fits with the siphoning skill line since it siphons something that is still useful. I wish agony could have a better use.

Gigasax

Brizz wrote: »

How Brizz would Fix:

Agony
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 7 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Player gains a shield for [x] Damage plus 2% for each second the stun duration had left.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.

How would you fix it?

I Love the idea of a damage shield for my NB

Digiman

Its a long CC, but to be really honest. Long CC's in this game a border line useless. Most of the mobs you would use them on, are immune to it. If they gave them a more broader spectrum of use on NPC's more people will use them.

Looking at PvP with Cyrodil, I would see those getting used more often if you could affect some of the NPC's there.

I actually think ZoS should revist long CC's with cast times and make them more useful against stronger NPC's.

But like everyone says it just more effective to AoE mobs down instead.

Fatalyis

Gigasax wrote: »

I Love the idea of a damage shield for my NB

While I do like the idea, do we really need more damage shields in this game?!

helediron

Agree completely with others. Agony will not be used until it's instant. The lenghtened time is useless change. This issue has been reported since beta and regularly.

Gigasax

Fatalyis wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

I Love the idea of a damage shield for my NB

While I do like the idea, do we really need more damage shields in this game?!

I think every class should have some kind of damage shield (but better ones than the actual implemented, just take a look at the shield stacking topic ^^)

TheBull

Brizz wrote: »

How Brizz would Fix:

Agony
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 7 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Player gains a shield for [x] Damage plus 2% for each second the stun duration had left.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.

How would you fix it?

It doesn't matter what effects you change. If it still can be blocked. If it still can't be used when the target is riding, knocked down, stunned, or doing anything but standing there. It will still be worthless.

Helluin

Fatalyis wrote: »

Honestly, I'd be okay if it was just another DoT and they removed the stun all together. Maybe do something similar to an ability I remember from Rift (Defile, maybe?)

Agony: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 10 seconds.

Prolonged Suffering: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 15 seconds. Damage increases by 20% every 3 seconds.

Malefic Wreath: Deals xxx magic damage to target every second for 10 seconds. When effect ends, the target bursts with concussive energy, stunning any enemies within a 10m radius.

Interesting ideas.

prototypefb

I'd go so far telling whoever designed Agony should be sacked, at least for awhile ;P
i'm just saying! the spell is that bad currently, and on pts.

Darkonflare15

I guess they really thought this skill was good or they probably did not want to change it since a lot mobs use this skill.