Undocumented Dark Elf Fire Resist nerf in 1.6x

Locke_ESO

So I read about this in another thread but seeing as there were no details I decided to do some tests. As a Dark Elf Vampire the racial fire resist buff is quite important to my character as it helps negate some of the downsides to being a Vampire.

On live atm Dark Elves get the Resist Flame racial skill which gives "x3 racial flame resist". This basically works out to a static +1575 flame resist which is near enough the equivalent of a 1.5 Gold level fire resist jewelery glyph (+1550 flame resist).

In 1.6x this Resist Flame skill now gives +2016 resistance which is only a 22% increase on the 1.5 figures. Compare this again to a Gold fire resist jewelery glyph which got a 109% improvement (+3253) and effectively Dark Elves took an effective undocumented 40% nerf to their flame resistance.

Interestingly enough Bretons who currently have +300 to all spell resistances on live actually got a x10 increase to +3000 on PTS which makes them more resistant to fire than Dark Elves unless I'm missing something. From a balance perspective I don't really understand this decision seeing as Dunmer are already lagging behind Altmer and Breton as a pure caster choice and this is even more true for PvP now. Either way it should have been in the patch notes.

Orihara_Izaya

I haven't had time to check but if what your saying is true then it needs to be fixed. I just rolled dark elf for the fire resist and I would have stuck with wood elf if I knew it was getting nerfed. I hope the dev's notice your thread.

angelyn

Does someone at Zos hate my character?
(PVE)Dark elf,light armour, magicka sorc vamp who had crit surge build:p

Father

If someone planning on buffing fire res then Bosmer should get a bigger res buff as well !

Sorcs are strong now for your information with or without pets they kick ass.
Not as much as templar but still better than most DK I battle.

snipeopsub17_ESO

I hoping this is a bug, or they forgot to change the numbers. Also, I'm pretty sure Breton resistance is vs Magic and does not include elemental resistances.

Locke_ESO

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, I'm pretty sure Breton resistance is vs Magic and does not include elemental resistances.

That's interesting if that is the case. If it is "magical damage" (what Sorcerers use mostly) then it's a shame they dont write it that way rather than spell resist.

It would be nice if they had some sort of pop up tab that shows the actual resists to everything or just add in fire, frost, shock and magical to the stat table rather than a generic spell resist which is hard to understand how it breaks down.

Gyudan

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

As a Dark Elf Vampire

BUUUUUURN!

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice if they had some sort of pop up tab that shows the actual resists to everything or just add in fire, frost, shock and magical to the stat table rather than a generic spell resist which is hard to understand how it breaks down

I agree that it would be really nice to see elemental and poison resistance on the character page, along with the damage mitigation associated with each type of damage.

Minsc

Something relevant to this : Could someone confirm if the Elemental Defender star at the Lady constellation is actually working?

I 've checked this vs scamps and also simply by sitting on the lava pools at Stonefalls and I saw no difference with either 0 or 100 CP investment.

Nefrast

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

From a balance perspective I don't really understand this decision seeing as Dunmer are already lagging behind Altmer and Breton as a pure caster choice

If you are a fire caster then the Dunmer has no equal in other races, 6-7% more damage is nothing the other races can compete with.

Anyway, yes, the races are not balanced at all. But I think decreasing Dunmer's powers is actually a step in the right direction as most races are very lacking.

DeLindsay

As of 1.6.2 the Legendary VR10-14 Fire Resist Glyph gives only 3.5% Resistance, just barely over 2K (Live right now it's 28%). The Dunmer Passive gives just slightly less and it was in the patch notes. If this ends up going Live as is then most Vampires will drop the Glyph entirely in favor of only using the Champion System for Fire Resist as you can get up to 25% from that alone.

angelyn

DeLindsay wrote: »

As of 1.6.2 the Legendary VR10-14 Fire Resist Glyph gives only 3.5% Resistance, just barely over 2K (Live right now it's 28%). The Dunmer Passive gives just slightly less and it was in the patch notes. If this ends up going Live as is then most Vampires will drop the Glyph entirely in favor of only using the Champion System for Fire Resist as you can get up to 25% from that alone.

Eric Wrobel promised me in the livestream that they were going to look into vamps taking more damage due to glyph/Dunmer nerf. Let's hope he keeps his promises

killedbyping

Well... Spell resist have nothing to do with elemantal resistance...
So no, Bretons don't have better fire resist then Dark Elves.

o_0

killedbyping wrote: »

Well... Spell resist have nothing to do with elemantal resistance...
So no, Bretons don't have better fire resist then Dark Elves.

I would be interested to see a ZOS confirmation based on the following

"Spell Resistance - This is your resistance to any damage that is Magic, Fire, Frost, Shock etc. NOTE: Poison and Bleeding are Physical Damage.
Spell Resistance is provided by Armor on a 1 to 1 basis."

Updated Jan 27, 2015 5:52 pm. Looks to be updated to 1.6 specifications.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Stats

killedbyping

o_0 wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

Well... Spell resist have nothing to do with elemantal resistance...
So no, Bretons don't have better fire resist then Dark Elves.

I would be interested to see a ZOS confirmation based on the following

"Spell Resistance - This is your resistance to any damage that is Magic, Fire, Frost, Shock etc. NOTE: Poison and Bleeding are Physical Damage.
Spell Resistance is provided by Armor on a 1 to 1 basis."

Updated Jan 27, 2015 5:52 pm. Looks to be updated to 1.6 specifications.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Stats

Well, this would be just another extremely bizzare design change then. It would allow you to have your elemantal resistance to be nearly 100%. or atleast much higher then regular spell resistance, therefore making use of destruction stuff or most of DK and Sorc skills completely wortheless in pvp.

DeLindsay

killedbyping wrote: »

Well, this would be just another extremely bizzare design change then. It would allow you to have your elemantal resistance to be nearly 100%. or atleast much higher then regular spell resistance, therefore making use of destruction stuff or most of DK and Sorc skills completely wortheless in pvp.

You cannot reach 100% anything in ESO in regards to damage reduction. 50% is the Hard cap, no matter how much you stack of this or that. Also, even with 100 points in the Champion System in every Star that gives Resistance + Light Armor Passives you cannot reach 50%, you only get to 41.5%. With all (3) Glyphs of Fire Resist you could just barely get to the 50% Hard cap since each are only worth 3.5% now.

o_0

I just tested on PTS with a template Breton and Dark Elf, both naked.

Breton:
Fire damage from lava with 0 spell resist = 1923
Fire damage from lava with 3000 spell resist from racial passive = 1836

Dark Elf:
Fire damage from lava with 0 spell resist = 1923
Fire damage from lava with 2016 fire resist from racial passive = 1865

Spell resist does affect non magical fire damage. However, both racial passives seem worthless now.

o_0

Out of curiosity i made a template Nord on PTS.

Fire damage from lava with 0 spell resist = 1923
Fire damage from lava with 6% damage reduction from racial passive = 1808

It's interesting how these racial passives work out in 1.6.

pmacisback

They should do a revamp of the whole racial passive system. Stop the pigeonholing for racials/classes and open the system up.

C0pp3rhead

You received an undocumented nerf to your racial skills? Welcome to Argonia, Dunmer n'wah.

Stella75

Lol I got an email for the eso team saying basically they do not tell us stuff on purpose. Somethings they just do not know also but this is worse. Leaving stuff out of the patch notes even in the pts, were they want us to test..., is a business model for them. when push comes to shove they also resort back to it is pts it might change, lol what I thought pts meant ready to go. anyways I am just rambling pissed off now.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

At least it still provides something useful. We Argonians got a ninja-nerf that completely gutted our best passive (and those that were also NBs were hit even harder). It's crappy, but at least it appears they've acknowledged this nerf whereas they still haven't said a word about Argonians.

Minsc

@o_0 . Could you also check please how these results are affected by the number of CPs that you spend at the Elemental Defender star? Because for me there was no change at all

C0pp3rhead

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

At least it still provides something useful. We Argonians got a ninja-nerf that completely gutted our best passive (and those that were also NBs were hit even harder). It's crappy, but at least it appears they've acknowledged this nerf whereas they still haven't said a word about Argonians.

And this is what bothers me most - that they haven't explained why they got rid of all +potion effectiveness passives.

o_0

Minsc wrote: »

@o_0 . Could you also check please how these results are affected by the number of CPs that you spend at the Elemental Defender star? Because for me there was no change at all

For the Nord, it lowered it from 1808 to 1539 with max "Elemental Defender" CP.

clocksstoppe

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

At least it still provides something useful. We Argonians got a ninja-nerf that completely gutted our best passive (and those that were also NBs were hit even harder). It's crappy, but at least it appears they've acknowledged this nerf whereas they still haven't said a word about Argonians.

And this is what bothers me most - that they haven't explained why they got rid of all +potion effectiveness passives.

I can imagine that they don't want gold to affect fighting performance as much. Think of it. Potion passive is the only one that scales with gold and they might want to not have people buying gold for money and then using insane potions all the time.

Nefrast

o_0 wrote: »

However, both racial passives seem worthless now.

My knowledge is not very deep yet, so I must ask. Why are they worthless? According to your numbers they mitigated about 5% of the damage which is for example nearly enough to nullify the fire damage bonus of a Dunmer opponent. Is that worthless?

ThatNeonZebraAgain

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

At least it still provides something useful. We Argonians got a ninja-nerf that completely gutted our best passive (and those that were also NBs were hit even harder). It's crappy, but at least it appears they've acknowledged this nerf whereas they still haven't said a word about Argonians.

And this is what bothers me most - that they haven't explained why they got rid of all +potion effectiveness passives.

It's simple why they had to remove potion effectiveness from the game: Potions are now integrated into the Major/Minor buff system along with effects from abilities. The values of Major/Minor buffs cannot be changed (only duration), thus making anything enhancing buff effectiveness obsolete. See my recent thread for a full list of changes/issues with potions in 1.6. They definitely did not explain nor document this in the patch notes, and to top it off, the passives they changed related to it are much less useful/effective than what they replaced.

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I can imagine that they don't want gold to affect fighting performance as much. Think of it. Potion passive is the only one that scales with gold and they might want to not have people buying gold for money and then using insane potions all the time.

This is an interesting idea, especially since data mining has shown information about +gold gain potions being available in the Crown Store. But the issue is more related to the Major/Minor buff system I described.

Jar_Ek

Argonians have had their passives completely gutted... not just the potion passive which has been gutted (6% recovery is way less than the tri-potions with 15% were - and way less flexible), but also the resistance one which has also been gutted. Hell we now only have the 6% heal received untouched - which wasn't exactly stellar before.

C0pp3rhead

Right you are, @ThatNeonZebraAgain‌

The change has to do with potion integration into the buff system.

What has me scratching my head is their reason for integrating potions in the first place. Almost every player is going to be running Evil Hunter or Magelight for the crit bonus unless they get the buffs from elsewhere. Additionally, many will be using class/weapon abilities that supply the spell/weapon power buff such as Momentum and Entropy. All the rotations that I imagine myself using completely negate 2/3 effects for these max-level potions. And we're supposed to be satisfied with, "Well, at least they restore about 25% more magicka/stamina than crown store potions"?

@clocksstoppe‌ If they didn't want gold and thus potions affecting performance, they would make gold & potions more difficult to get. I know snipers who chug weapon crit potions and tanks who chug tripots as soon as their cooldown allows them to. Not because they need to chug potions in order to survive, but because it makes them more effective at doing their jobs. It's not just the argonian/NB super-combo players who will see a their performance suffer.

Alchemy is a legitimate crafting profession that should be just as necessary as Enchanting or Blacksmithing. If you go into a high-level dungeon with un-enchanted gear, you're not prepared. If you don't want to depend on armor/weapon crafting skills, then have fun with a bunch of mismatched gear and fewer options. If you are doing a Vet-level dungeon without food, your performance will suffer. With potion effects integrated into buffs, the only thing that an alchemist should and will produce are V5 tri-pots that restore health, magicka, and stamina.

Orihara_Izaya

Checked it on the PTS as well, and can also confirm that it is currently bugged/totally useless right now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you make sure this bug get's passed onto the appropriate team, if 1.6 launches with this alot of people are not going to be happy.

Tamanous

Should we start sending links to online mathematics courses for ZOS programmers?

Either that or they need to stop coming to work high.

This is Crazyville! Nothing is making sense with many of these 1.6 changes!