What I expected from 1.6 vs. What I got

emre.as.aslanb16_ESO

The title is self-explanatory.



There are still quite some things which need to be changed before this makes it to the live servers. At least I hope ZOS will address the problems and eventually fix them.

Panda244

ZOS giveth and ZOS taketh.

Alcast

They fixed 2hander animation and broke bow animation. Put that in there too

Soulac

Undo the damn changes to stats, equip, enchants and let melee Magicka spells ignore Harness again, everything would be fine.

Shinra

The Problem: You expected too much.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Shinra wrote: »

The Problem: You expected too much.

I would also ask where those expectations came from, which were based on things ZOS said and which were simply hopes turned into expectations after being hoped for so long (as we all know happens).

Of course, even those expectations based on what ZOS said would happen will result in disappointment when ZOS do a U-turn and renege on their previous statements: note, the issue of "tracking your XP" as well as lesser ones such as "food and drinks will stack" were stated repeatedly as FACT, ZOS didn't even try to hedge by using words like 'planning to', they were stated as cast-in-stone WILL HAPPENs.

Seraphyel

1.5 hit live servers in early November without any relevant content. The last relevant content was added mid September, when they opened up the last part of Craglorn.

So, 1.6 doesn't give us ANY content - so we got nothing in 6 months (if 1.6 hits live servers in February) and new content seems to be another 6 months away (2-3 months after console launch).

Maybe that's where the expectations came from? It's GREAT to have such a major tweaking patch like 1.6 and it's needed, but that doesn't justify leaving out content for half a year now.

Lynx7386

Yep, it'll be a year before we see actual decent content, so much for their "new content every 4-6 weeks" goal.

TheLaw

Well I won't disagree. They've effectively reset progression, without offering new content.

Seraphyel

TheLaw wrote: »

Well I won't disagree. They've effectively reset progression, without offering new content.

It was needed, so it's okay.

But it's not okay to hold back content because of the console launch. Craglorn should have been release content, they just stretched it nearly half a year by then and now we should stay with it for another 6 months - it won't work.

Lionxoft

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Yep, it'll be a year before we see actual decent content, so much for their "new content every 4-6 weeks" goal.

You don't like being lied to? Can't say I blame you.

Rosveen

Half of your list are things ZOS never promised in 1.6, heck, even things we were 100% sure wouldn't appear in 1.6. But you still expected them. You have no one to blame for your disappointment but yourself.

Seraphyel

Rosveen wrote: »

Half of your list are things ZOS never promised in 1.6, heck, even things we were 100% sure wouldn't appear in 1.6. But you still expected them. You have no one to blame for your disappointment but yourself.

Didn't turn the tables, does it?

Rosveen

Seraphyel wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Half of your list are things ZOS never promised in 1.6, heck, even things we were 100% sure wouldn't appear in 1.6. But you still expected them. You have no one to blame for your disappointment but yourself.

Didn't turn the tables, does it?

I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm going to use my "English isn't my first language" card.

Darklord_Tiberius

This guy is delusional. Over half of the stuff in your "expectations" are things they never mentioned were going to be addressed in 1.6. I hate people like this, clearly he is new to the forums and the only reason he came on here was to troll. Sad for him, he is a failure at that.

Darklord_Tiberius

Seraphyel wrote: »

1.5 hit live servers in early November without any relevant content. The last relevant content was added mid September, when they opened up the last part of Craglorn.

So, 1.6 doesn't give us ANY content - so we got nothing in 6 months (if 1.6 hits live servers in February) and new content seems to be another 6 months away (2-3 months after console launch).

Maybe that's where the expectations came from? It's GREAT to have such a major tweaking patch like 1.6 and it's needed, but that doesn't justify leaving out content for half a year now.

Ah another one of those, "ME WANT CONTENT, ME WANT SHINY THINGS" type of person. Let me explain something to you young one, this is an MMO not a call of duty or star craft type of game where they churn out simply created maps for you to "play". The concept of content with in the scope of the MMO world doesn't just mean, "maps and places to explore". Content refers to many and all things related to the game; whether it is maps and zones, new game mechanics, balancing or adding things such as the collectible system. This game has had tons of content added to it over the past 10 months and 1.6 will add more. I know this concept must be hard for you to understand.

Your idea of "relevant content" is a bit misguided. How long do you think it takes to build a great game? When it is released? A year later? 4 years later? The correct answer is that a great game is always changing and always evolving. Its the reason many of us play MMOs to begin with because most of us that have been playing MMOs over 10 years understand that a great game changes with the times regardless of what it use to be or was said to be. A game that can change and adapt is a great game. Rome was not built in a day, remember that sonny.

bowmanz607

First, THIS IS THE PTS AND STILL HAS WEEKS OF TESTING AHEAD SO CALM DOWN!

Second, no new content in the 4-6 weeks margin b/c the community complained about the end game play and wanted it to change. So they had to spend a lot of time on getting a fundamental new system in place as smooth as possible. (i.e. the champ system). This requires much testing and patience to work out the bugs. the amount of work that goes into such a large change of course will delay the application of new content b.c they need to see how the new system works before they can finalize new content. (trust me im mostly pvp and have been waiting patiently for the imperial city and will continue to wait patiently.)

Third, I play on every campaign in cyrodiil and am involved in every variety of fight that occurs and have not had a single lag issue since 1.5 hit. not one. (not counting PTS cause well it is a TEST server.) Perhaps it is your connection, or settings in game, etc. (or perhaps i am lucky)

Fourth, of course you cant dye weapons it is not realistic. maybe the handle at best. Shields ya perhaps they should be dye able.

Fifth, the major minor buffs helps with the rebalance. In order to help with the balance issue with armor it required a larger scale to work on which in turn required a larger scale to work with across the board. Moreover, without the major and minor buff standard now the game would be way out of balance. Because soft caps were removed, if there were no major and minor buffs then people could stack endlessly on damage and the game would be completely out of wack. The major and minor buffs provide the new cap on stacking options to counter the problem that could occur without soft caps. Additionaly you say you expected a rebalance of minor issues. Ummm.....balancing stam v. magika seems more than a minor issue. it seems like half the game is taken away.

sixth, has ZOS really said things so often and not delivered? yes I agree that they said they would track the points and didnt. But perhaps this proved to be more difficult then they originally anticipated. Moreover, sage did say that some people would be hppy with the amount of champion points and other wouldnt. Reading between the lines, we cant gurantee what you will get because this is a huge change. I personally stopped questing my VR toon at that point to make sure i got the champ points i deserved. Other than that what have they promised and not delivered on cause this is all i hear people say they didnt deliver on. (and ofcourse the 4-6 week thing that i discussed above.) They have listened to the community at large, not just the negative complaints they get on the forums. More people are inclined to voice negative opinions about something then people are to voice positive things. The people providing substantive feedback do so with /feedback or /bug and so on. (in most cases).

Bottom line: ZoS has listened to many things we have said since launch and even in beta testing and continues to do so. if they didnt we would not even have this champ system. Moreover, 1.6 is still in testing and will be for weeks. so rather than staing what you expected versus what you got tell them what your having problems with, why your having a problem with it, suggestions on how to fix it and do it supporting your side. not just using a blanket statement. For instance, "ZOS you increased the cost of taunts by x amount. it is causing x problems with tank builds. I have tried doing x,y and z to my build to counter this issue and it does not seems to help (such as putting all my points into stam regen and abilty cost reduction). this seems to be causing problems with tanks and ultimately is hurting the gameplay experience for tanks because of the above reasons. can you please look into this." Of course, this is assuming you tried numerous ways to approach your tank build. As an example with myself, I am a bow/DW NB build. The change to ambush and killer's blade is awesome for me but it kills my stamina. So i put most of my points into reduce cost of abilities, increase stam regen, decrease cost of dodge roll. I then use armor for other stats. This put my build back where it was supposed to be. and that was with only 70 champ points.

Seraphyel

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Ah another one of those, "ME WANT CONTENT, ME WANT SHINY THINGS" type of person. Let me explain something to you young one, this is an MMO not a call of duty or star craft type of game where they churn out simply created maps for you to "play". The concept of content with in the scope of the MMO world doesn't just mean, "maps and places to explore". Content refers to many and all things related to the game; whether it is maps and zones, new game mechanics, balancing or adding things such as the collectible system. This game has had tons of content added to it over the past 10 months and 1.6 will add more. I know this concept must be hard for you to understand.

Your idea of "relevant content" is a bit misguided. How long do you think it takes to build a great game? When it is released? A year later? 4 years later? The correct answer is that a great game is always changing and always evolving. Its the reason many of us play MMOs to begin with because most of us that have been playing MMOs over 10 years understand that a great game changes with the times regardless of what it use to be or was said to be. A game that can change and adapt is a great game. Rome was not built in a day, remember that sonny.

What?

There has been Craglorn. That's it for 1 year. Sorry, the "new" Veteran Dungeons don't even come close to what's called content.

So, let me tell you something, young, delusional one: Zenimax is doing a POOR job when it comes to content. Overhauling the whole game because it was awful in some parts is no excuse for holding back or not delivering content.

I know what MMO-developers can do, I play in this genre for more than a decade now and I say, Zenimax did no good job with adding content in the last 9 months.

Stop seeking for excuses where no excuses are, it's incredible how anyone can deny what I say, it's a matter of fact when you look into the patch notes.

Should I give you some information about what other developers added within the first year of their MMORPG or do you prefer being delusional about missing content?

bowmanz607

Seraphyel wrote: »

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Ah another one of those, "ME WANT CONTENT, ME WANT SHINY THINGS" type of person. Let me explain something to you young one, this is an MMO not a call of duty or star craft type of game where they churn out simply created maps for you to "play". The concept of content with in the scope of the MMO world doesn't just mean, "maps and places to explore". Content refers to many and all things related to the game; whether it is maps and zones, new game mechanics, balancing or adding things such as the collectible system. This game has had tons of content added to it over the past 10 months and 1.6 will add more. I know this concept must be hard for you to understand.

Your idea of "relevant content" is a bit misguided. How long do you think it takes to build a great game? When it is released? A year later? 4 years later? The correct answer is that a great game is always changing and always evolving. Its the reason many of us play MMOs to begin with because most of us that have been playing MMOs over 10 years understand that a great game changes with the times regardless of what it use to be or was said to be. A game that can change and adapt is a great game. Rome was not built in a day, remember that sonny.

What?

There has been Craglorn. That's it for 1 year. Sorry, the "new" Veteran Dungeons don't even come close to what's called content.

So, let me tell you something, young, delusional one: Zenimax is doing a POOR job when it comes to content. Overhauling the whole game because it was awful in some parts is no excuse for holding back or not delivering content.

I know what MMO-developers can do, I play in this genre for more than a decade now and I say, Zenimax did no good job with adding content in the last 9 months.

Stop seeking for excuses where no excuses are, it's incredible how anyone can deny what I say, it's a matter of fact when you look into the patch notes.

Should I give you some information about what other developers added within the first year of their MMORPG or do you prefer being delusional about missing content?

hmm n o new content.... lets see. upper crag (2 trials included), lower crag (new trial and DSA included), vet dungeons, daily quests, new gear, new food and what not, changes to skills that we asked for, improved combat, improved animations and what not (which is hige for role players), dyes, now champ system, justice system in 10 months (which causes a delay in content b/c it requires people to be able to work on them which slows content). not to bad.

bowmanz607

Its not about what one person wants to see but what the community wants to see. For instance, I mostly pvp but still have no new content for that. ya i want it but its not just about me and i know they are working on it. the new content is for a broad spectrum of players not just taylored to what you want to see.

NukeAllTheThings

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

1.5 hit live servers in early November without any relevant content. The last relevant content was added mid September, when they opened up the last part of Craglorn.

So, 1.6 doesn't give us ANY content - so we got nothing in 6 months (if 1.6 hits live servers in February) and new content seems to be another 6 months away (2-3 months after console launch).

Maybe that's where the expectations came from? It's GREAT to have such a major tweaking patch like 1.6 and it's needed, but that doesn't justify leaving out content for half a year now.

Ah another one of those, "ME WANT CONTENT, ME WANT SHINY THINGS" type of person. Let me explain something to you young one, this is an MMO not a call of duty or star craft type of game where they churn out simply created maps for you to "play". The concept of content with in the scope of the MMO world doesn't just mean, "maps and places to explore". Content refers to many and all things related to the game; whether it is maps and zones, new game mechanics, balancing or adding things such as the collectible system. This game has had tons of content added to it over the past 10 months and 1.6 will add more. I know this concept must be hard for you to understand.

Your idea of "relevant content" is a bit misguided. How long do you think it takes to build a great game? When it is released? A year later? 4 years later? The correct answer is that a great game is always changing and always evolving. Its the reason many of us play MMOs to begin with because most of us that have been playing MMOs over 10 years understand that a great game changes with the times regardless of what it use to be or was said to be. A game that can change and adapt is a great game. Rome was not built in a day, remember that sonny.

It is hilarious to me that you used Call of Duty as an example of what ESO is not since ZOS is now adopting the EXACT SAME model of Call of Duty. CoD DLC Maps = ESO DLC Zones, CoD weapon skins, armor skins & reticles = ESO Crown store costumes & mount skins. I love old people

bowmanz607

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

1.5 hit live servers in early November without any relevant content. The last relevant content was added mid September, when they opened up the last part of Craglorn.

So, 1.6 doesn't give us ANY content - so we got nothing in 6 months (if 1.6 hits live servers in February) and new content seems to be another 6 months away (2-3 months after console launch).

Maybe that's where the expectations came from? It's GREAT to have such a major tweaking patch like 1.6 and it's needed, but that doesn't justify leaving out content for half a year now.

Ah another one of those, "ME WANT CONTENT, ME WANT SHINY THINGS" type of person. Let me explain something to you young one, this is an MMO not a call of duty or star craft type of game where they churn out simply created maps for you to "play". The concept of content with in the scope of the MMO world doesn't just mean, "maps and places to explore". Content refers to many and all things related to the game; whether it is maps and zones, new game mechanics, balancing or adding things such as the collectible system. This game has had tons of content added to it over the past 10 months and 1.6 will add more. I know this concept must be hard for you to understand.

Your idea of "relevant content" is a bit misguided. How long do you think it takes to build a great game? When it is released? A year later? 4 years later? The correct answer is that a great game is always changing and always evolving. Its the reason many of us play MMOs to begin with because most of us that have been playing MMOs over 10 years understand that a great game changes with the times regardless of what it use to be or was said to be. A game that can change and adapt is a great game. Rome was not built in a day, remember that sonny.

It is hilarious to me that you used Call of Duty as an example of what ESO is not since ZOS is now adopting the EXACT SAME model of Call of Duty. CoD DLC Maps = ESO DLC Zones, CoD weapon skins, armor skins & reticles = ESO Crown store costumes & mount skins. I love old people

or that is like all games. umm oblivion dlc and horse armor. Skyrim also DLC for new zones. thats just ESO but the list goes on for all games. his point is that how those things are made are completely different from how DLC is handled for MMO's (I think) not about having DLC in general.

AlnilamE

Great Expectations - it's more than just a Dickens novel!

Seraphyel

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmm n o new content.... lets see. upper crag (2 trials included), lower crag (new trial and DSA included), vet dungeons, daily quests, new gear, new food and what not, changes to skills that we asked for, improved combat, improved animations and what not (which is hige for role players), dyes, now champ system, justice system in 10 months (which causes a delay in content b/c it requires people to be able to work on them which slows content). not to bad.

You seem to be misinterpreting the thing "content".

New gear = no content
New food = no content (even the mentioning is laughable)
Changes to skill = no content
Improved content = no content
Improved animations = no content
Dyes = no content

As I said, Craglorn (upper and lower makes still one Craglorn) - that's it. The "Dailies" are not worth mentioning, so aren't the new vet dungeons.

Champ system is another type of vertical progression, that's great but still no content. Justice system could be some kind of nice fluff-content, but it's still a fact that Zenimax delivered nearly nothing. And as I said, to neglect content because your gameplay is weak is no excuse.

And yes, it is more than bad. It's awful. I am just talking about content.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I still hate the DW animations. The staff animations I wouldn't say are better, just different. Why can't they make decent attack animations that show some grace instead of wildly swinging your weapons around like a maniac? It literally looks like my character is just (slowly) chopping the air when I use light attacks with DW. He really looks like he's never picked up a sword before and should probably put them down before he hurts himself.

bowmanz607

Seraphyel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hmm n o new content.... lets see. upper crag (2 trials included), lower crag (new trial and DSA included), vet dungeons, daily quests, new gear, new food and what not, changes to skills that we asked for, improved combat, improved animations and what not (which is hige for role players), dyes, now champ system, justice system in 10 months (which causes a delay in content b/c it requires people to be able to work on them which slows content). not to bad.

You seem to be misinterpreting the thing "content".

New gear = no content
New food = no content (even the mentioning is laughable)
Changes to skill = no content
Improved content = no content
Improved animations = no content
Dyes = no content

As I said, Craglorn (upper and lower makes still one Craglorn) - that's it. The "Dailies" are not worth mentioning, so aren't the new vet dungeons.

Champ system is another type of vertical progression, that's great but still no content. Justice system could be some kind of nice fluff-content, but it's still a fact that Zenimax delivered nearly nothing. And as I said, to neglect content because your gameplay is weak is no excuse.

And yes, it is more than bad. It's awful. I am just talking about content.

Why does content have to be dungeons and zones? new content is substantive "stuff" added to the game. limiting the scope of it is ofcourse makes you feel like nothing new was added. IMO content has a much broader scope. I also know many people that would disagree with you about the dailies. it provides reasons to try out all the various dungeons in the game and having a new experience while getting rewarded and not having to grind trials all the time. Moreover, ya upper and lower makes one but what if they called it something else? would you still say it makes one? that just doesnt seem right. Additionally, as mentioned above, improved animation is extremely important for the roleplayers i know and they would absolutely agree that it is new content b/c it imporved their gameplay experience. and the justice sytem introduces dueling of sorts in your own alliance and sets the groundwork for drak brotherhood and theives guild. without it they would not be incorporated into the game properly. Also, why would you spend time and limit resources on new content when that content can not be fully enjoyed until tweaks are made to the game play. Lastly, until the game was realeased it is impossible to know what exploits and problems the game truly has. Zos can only do so much. you need the numbers to properly fix some problems that need to be addressed. so yes i do consider tweaks to gameplay new content because it improves the game and open ups new possibilities to the players. much like new zones do. (but obviously not to the same extent.)

Seraphyel

No, content hasn't got a much broader scope.

Content = something to do in a new / different zone. New effects, new armory and new animations offer you nothing new when it comes to playable stuff, it's just for your eye.

I know that the things coming in 1.6 are important and I think it's a monster patch, but the lack of content is still existing and it gets worse. That's the issue here.

1.5 offered us no content, 1.6 offers us no content and 1.7 is half year away - THAT is the issue, not the things they bring up with 1.6.

Murkmire - where is it?
Imperial City - where is it?
Wrothgar - where is it?

They showed us all these things on Quakecon in July - 7 months ago. And they just brought up the rest of Craglorn and won't come up with anything they showed us within 1 year?

Again, I think 1.6 is highly needed and should have been here at launch, but it won't cure the open wounds when it comes to the incredible lack of content.

Rev Rielle

In truth, emre.as.aslanb16_ESO, I think your opening post, more than anything, shows that you didn't take the time to gather information and educate yourself on just what update 1.6 was providing. I say this because there is more than one point on your list (e.g. veteran ranks, new content, etc) that was clearly addressed by development on ESO Live and via other mediums as areas that will not be affected by the 1.6 update.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think perhaps it might be better in future to try and get more facts before complaining. Try not to overly trust the hearsay from forum users for information, but look for official responses. But you're not alone there, many people do it.

MrGhosty

It might help to classify the broad term "content" into two categories, quality of life and expansion. Dyes, armor polish, skill balance, etc are all quality of life updates and while vital provide little substance beyond initially looking at them and going "huh, that's nice". Craglorn seemed rushed out in order to appease those who rushed to vet12 and then complained there was nothing to do, and they split it into two different updates so while that was content in the "expansion" sense, we've had just that since the game launched. The fact remains that they haven't released any meaningful expansion content since craglorn (retooling existing encounters is quality of life, not expansion).

With 1.6 on its way there is very little meaningful content to complete if you have already gone through the the three factions (which can be argued is a bit lazy relying on two thirds of repeat content as "meaningful") There isn't much do help you earn those champion points when they've clearly had to downscale some of the player power in order to balance everything. Once 1.6 drops we cannot expect anything until July at the earliest but I would put that closer to September. So our options for "content" is to repeat the same quests some of us have been going through since we started playing in Beta so I can understand how some would start getting a bit grouchy about that.

Looking at it from a strictly game design perspective, it is never a good idea to let your game get to a point where people can walk away from it to play something else, in most cases once they make a new game connection they'll opt to stick with that. The long drought of new content is going to cause people to wander away and many may not opt to come back which helps no one. Of course maybe that's the goal, there is plenty there for new players to keep them going and they'd just quite like us long timers to kindly bugger off so there isn't anyone to remind them they mishandled some things. Only time will tell I suppose.

bowmanz607

I understand, I guess at the same time i had lower expectations then most for a the first 6-8months. I honestly thought it was going to be one big beta for that time frame so did not raise my expectations which could contribute to my calm and patient manner.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Seraphyel wrote: »

1.5 hit live servers in early November without any relevant content. The last relevant content was added mid September, when they opened up the last part of Craglorn.

So, 1.6 doesn't give us ANY content - so we got nothing in 6 months (if 1.6 hits live servers in February) and new content seems to be another 6 months away (2-3 months after console launch).

For those of us who don't enjoy endlessly running group-or-die content there's been nothing new AT ALL since release, stop complaining about a short gap in your phat lewt content arrival.