Potions - why 45 seconds? The impact on stamina builds?

Tavore1138

I am wondering why potion refresh time has been raised by 50%?

From a personal perspective I have used a stam NB build that uses potions quite a lot for keeping resources up or for adding things like weapon damage where beneficial.

When considered with the removal of the potion passive (Catalyst), the reduction in effectiveness of NB stamina resource management (i.e. Haste morph being much less effective) and the reduction in effectiveness of regen enchants on jewellery it seems like further reducing the ability to pump stamina is going to push us away from using stamina once again which is a shame as it had become very viable.

This is compounded by what look like increased block, stealth and dodge costs and that for best damage we will now be looking at having to pay for abilities that used to be magicka costs in stamina (i.e. Ambush does not hit much more hard now but I have to pay in stamina unless I want the rather less useful magicka morph)

So all in all it seems like there is a lot more costs coming out of my stamina pool and a lot less effective ways of filling it back up again.

I'm not claiming to be a genius theory crafter so if someone can explain where I am missing some obvious options for resource management here that would be just dandy but on the surface it looks like I just took a severe kicking from the devs.

P.S. I hate to have to reply on an 'official' bug (i.e. weaving) which might be removed if the devs ever figure out how to do so - and in reality no-one should have to rely on a mechanic that involves playing the game as not originally intended however doable and effective it might be.

HeroOfNone

Just a bit of speculation but it may have been to reduce a lot of the potion chugging sustain builds and dpsers hittino the top of the damage charts without having to worry about resource management. In addition, this also reduces the usefulness of the potion reduction time so you're no longer getting a 17%-50% boosts to potions in long fights (based on time reduction) and are now getting a 11% - 33% bonus, closer in line with other jewelry runes.

Alcast

Did you test it? I think it is just a bug. Because when I have 3x Glyph of Potion cooldown then i still have an uptime of 100% during fights.

Tavore1138

Potions description says and is 45secs.

And why shouldn't classes who use stamina not have sustain options, some classes get built in sustain for the rest of us there were potions, now we just run dry quicker and die because all the other sustain options are gone and we have extra drains on our main resource too, feels like they wanted to tweak something and ended up doing it from 5 different angles leading to a big nerfbat attack.

Beleron

you still have to ask ZOS one question.
WHY
why was there not 4 resources.
hp - health
magica - spells
Stamina - physical attacks.
Then we should have had another for blocking, rolling, interrupting.
how it is, trying to do a stamina build you always end up with less resources than magica since your stamina is used for more then just using abilities, while magica is not.

stamina mele stamina weapons need a passive that gives you a big bonus to stamina regen. To balance the fact out, you will be blocking more as mele.

ranged stamina doesn't need a boost since you wont be blocking or interrupting more than you would with a magical weapon.

simply you cant have stamina work the same way as magica, since its used for a larger multitude of things than magica is.

Exstazik

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

Beleron

Exstazik wrote: »

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

even if theres no nerf, as you say, it always needed to be adjusted. Stam is used for more things then magica and needs to be balanced as such.

DeLindsay

Alcast wrote: »

Did you test it? I think it is just a bug. Because when I have 3x Glyph of Potion cooldown then i still have an uptime of 100% during fights.

You don't have 100% uptime even with 3/3 Medicinal Use in Alchemy plus all 3 reduction Glyphs on your Jewelry, there's a 1.2 sec drop lol. The timer CD is still superior to the other (which was Restoration, now it's duration) as the Legendary VR10-14 Glyph only adds 3.2 sec to the regen timer vs 5 sec reduction to Potion CD.

Tavore1138

Exstazik wrote: »

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

Well, you could try math.

But the main problem is that as a stamina player they have increased stamina costs of non-ability options as well as switching magicka costs into stamina costs and at the same time reduced the ways we can gain stamina including potions.

Unless some theory guru can step in and explain what they have added to help stamina resource management I'm going to assume:

a: Stamina has been severely nerfed.
b. CS and devs know this and did it with deliberate intent.
c. The tinfoil theories that devs play magicka builds are actually true.

timidobserver

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

c. The tinfoil theories that devs play magicka builds are actually true.

Aside from the DK Skoria builds, Stam builds are completely outclassing magicka builds on live and have been for a while now. ZOS also recently(pts) killed a few magicka builds to give stamina morphs in the class trees. They also recently(pts) all but completely removed survivability from light armor and gave it to medium armor. They made magicka AoEs blockable(pts). None of this would be the case if there was some kind of tinfoil conspiracy against Stam builds.

TheBucket

I havent tested this but this will butcher my thirsty thief build if its true.

Tavore1138

timidobserver wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

c. The tinfoil theories that devs play magicka builds are actually true.

Aside from the DK Skoria builds, Stam builds are completely outclassing magicka builds on live and have been for a while now. ZOS also recently(pts) killed a few magicka builds to give stamina morphs in the class trees. They also recently(pts) all but completely removed survivability from light armor and gave it to medium armor. They made magicka AoEs blockable(pts). None of this would be the case if there was some kind of tinfoil conspiracy against Stam builds.

Live and PTS are very different - stam builds are certainly viable on live but that is not what I am asking about. The only magicka builds that are being 'outclassed' are the lazy ones.

As I said block, stealth & roll dodge are costing more than on live so blocking AOE is actually a harmful option as it will drain stamina away from things like dodging or actually hitting anyone.

And as I pointed out all the methods of adding to the stamina resource pool have been reduced so your pool runs out faster.

timidobserver

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

PTS:45 CD-20 sec effect
Live: 30 CD-10 sec effect

Where is nerf?

c. The tinfoil theories that devs play magicka builds are actually true.

Aside from the DK Skoria builds, Stam builds are completely outclassing magicka builds on live and have been for a while now. ZOS also recently(pts) killed a few magicka builds to give stamina morphs in the class trees. They also recently(pts) all but completely removed survivability from light armor and gave it to medium armor. They made magicka AoEs blockable(pts). None of this would be the case if there was some kind of tinfoil conspiracy against Stam builds.

Live and PTS are very different - stam builds are certainly viable on live but that is not what I am asking about. The only magicka builds that are being 'outclassed' are the lazy ones.

As I said block, stealth & roll dodge are costing more than on live so blocking AOE is actually a harmful option as it will drain stamina away from things like dodging or actually hitting anyone.

And as I pointed out all the methods of adding to the stamina resource pool have been reduced so your pool runs out faster.

I was responding purely to point C, the tinfoil bit.