Snipe

Digiman

1.6 has changed the 35 long range attack from 1.1 seconds to 1 second. If the aim of this design is to make it a stable for damage then please reduce the range to 28 meters so it can be range interrupts can be used to counter the spam.

Otherwise if the 35 range is fine increase the cast time to 1.3 seconds. This is an incredible powerful ranged DPS ability with very little draw backs with its incredible range, damage and cast time come 1.6.

Merlin13KAGL

Assume you're talking PvP. If so, don't forget the added distance you get just for stepping foot in Cyrodiil...

Digiman

Yes I took account of the added distance. What I wrote was base distance, but in cyrdodiil its I believe over 40 yards from the buff.

Even so I really don't see why this ability needs a 35 range in PvE either. It would be far to tempting for DPS to pick over other abilities. Especially with Stamina morphs.

ZoS want to make it a long range DPS skill then its cast time needs to be increased significantly. But if they are designing this to be a staple DPS ability then its range should be knocked back to 28 meters.

Eitherway it would balance out this skill and not make so attractive to use over other ranged weapon skill line.

Sentinel

I can tell you this, most people have ways of avoiding snipes if given enough notice. DKs-> reflect + self heal. Sorcs-> Sheild stack. Temp.-> self heal. Nightblades->... Ah, well we do our best to run for cover. Most classes do go for cover anyway.

Due to the changes in crit it's more difficult to cause sneak attacks with a bow that cause high enough amounts of damage to effectively gank another person.

Gorthax

really now....I was hit by snipe for 22k.......sitting at 21k health when I enter pvp, I get one shotted if my shields are not up. It has happened more than once and from different players each time. The lowest I personally have been hit by snipe for was 18k roughly.

Digiman

Sentinel wrote: »

I can tell you this, most people have ways of avoiding snipes if given enough notice. DKs-> reflect + self heal. Sorcs-> Sheild stack. Temp.-> self heal. Nightblades->... Ah, well we do our best to run for cover. Most classes do go for cover anyway.

Due to the changes in crit it's more difficult to cause sneak attacks with a bow that cause high enough amounts of damage to effectively gank another person.

So basically for my Sorcerer its go healing staff with ward or go home? Sorry that is inexcusable for an ability that is obviously unbalanced. This would be different if the cost was actually pretty expensive but its significantly huge and I am seeing so many people favor it over others for its outrageous power and range.

Ashanne

Right now on PTS there is something completely wrong with the scaling of damage and shields...
if an emp can bash u to death (5k each) there has to be something wrong there...
also I was on the Dev PTS test and the fighting sounded something like Battlefield sounds ...Meteors everywhere...I wonder why...hmmm...I wasn't lucky to get any snipes yet...but I can imagine

Durham

Digiman wrote: »

1.6 has changed the 35 long range attack from 1.1 seconds to 1 second. If the aim of this design is to make it a stable for damage then please reduce the range to 28 meters so it can be range interrupts can be used to counter the spam.

Otherwise if the 35 range is fine increase the cast time to 1.3 seconds. This is an incredible powerful ranged DPS ability with very little draw backs with its incredible range, damage and cast time come 1.6.

This ability does to much damage from crazy range... Snipe spam in PvP is beyond crazy... Bows are everywhere in PvP...

HeroOfNone

Digiman wrote: »

1.6 has changed the 35 long range attack from 1.1 seconds to 1 second. If the aim of this design is to make it a stable for damage then please reduce the range to 28 meters so it can be range interrupts can be used to counter the spam.

Otherwise if the 35 range is fine increase the cast time to 1.3 seconds. This is an incredible powerful ranged DPS ability with very little draw backs with its incredible range, damage and cast time come 1.6.

Issues will arise in certain fights with this. Currently snipe is one of the few resource tower clearing tools that we have in our arsenals. Without it, the tower mages and gaurds have an incredibly long distance to fire off abilities and ultimates on players. In addition to this, PvE fights like the manticore, several dungeon bosses, etc. Have mechanics geared to the long snipe mechanic. As for dps, while you can't animation cancel with as well, keeping distance to stay alive plus the ranged damage bonus make it helpful. Instead of nerfing the range on the bow I think they could increase certain abilities farther to give better counters.

Sentinel wrote: »

I can tell you this, most people have ways of avoiding snipes if given enough notice. DKs-> reflect + self heal. Sorcs-> Sheild stack. Temp.-> self heal. Nightblades->... Ah, well we do our best to run for cover. Most classes do go for cover anyway.

Due to the changes in crit it's more difficult to cause sneak attacks with a bow that cause high enough amounts of damage to effectively gank another person.

Most nightblades I see survive better verses snipe, due to their stealth abilities. slipping out of sight and dodge rolling makes it hard to get off more than one snipe shot.

Digiman

Yes I either think of nerfing the range or increasing long range abilities with interrupts would work, but like I said if this goes live without any counters or drawbacks it would be too tempting for stamina based playstyles to pass up.

Nivzruo_ESO

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

QuadroTony

Digiman wrote: »

1.6 has changed the 35 long range attack from 1.1 seconds to 1 second.

where did you find this in changelogs?

Gorthax

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

cute lol DKs got even stronger. GG zos GG

HeroOfNone

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

Snipe still has a good distance and time to it, so it's generally used to shoot folks off siege. Especially useful with teams of 2- 4 all hitting the same target. If you'removed solo ganking you can also pull off a snipe shot, animation cancel a heavy attack with an injection before the snipe hits, making for a pretty quick damage stack. I wouldn't count it out just yet.

QuadroTony

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

you told about Empower+Brutality buff?
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/28/eso-buffs-listing/

there is no such major buffs from DK class skills

Derra

QuadroTony wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

you told about Empower+Brutality buff?
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/28/eso-buffs-listing/

there is no such major buffs from DK class skills

Just look up molten armaments.

Gorthax

QuadroTony wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

you told about Empower+Brutality buff?
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/28/eso-buffs-listing/

there is no such major buffs from DK class skills

Molten Weapons
This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.
Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.
Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.
Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

QuadroTony

good buff, but i think still not enough to overrun snipe

HeroOfNone

Gorthax wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

The days of snipe ganking are over in 1.6. Anyone snipe ganking on live atm is gonna reroll DK and get the +40% heavy attack buff, so now DKs will 1 shot you with a heavy bow attack from stealth. So nerf snipe all you want it's not even on my bars anymore. 2 v14 NB's retired, my v1 DK is coming along nicely thou.

you told about Empower+Brutality buff?
http://deltiasgaming.com/2015/01/28/eso-buffs-listing/

there is no such major buffs from DK class skills

Molten Weapons
This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.
Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.
Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.
Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

I can already see the Pavlov's dog reaction to this: hear molten armaments, hold block!

Emma_Overload

Now they want to nerf Snipe, the last high DPS play the Sorcerers have left. PVP whiners have already killed my class, what difference does it make?

technohic

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now they want to nerf Snipe, the last high DPS play the Sorcerers have left. PVP whiners have already killed my class, what difference does it make?

Man. Why does every change outside of classes have to be somehow a direct attack on sorcerers? Whats the deal?

I have snipe on my stamina build templar right now. Looking at 1.6 I will have momentum on my other bar that I can use, as well as fighters guild abilities. Vampires look out because I will use momentum, camoflauged hunter, snipe, poison injection and when that all lands at about the same time, there will be a jeebus beam from the new templar ranged finisher coming and I have not spent a point of magicka.

Looking at that, I can see that being a problem.

C0pp3rhead

Snipe does not need to be nerfed. In live, it's fine as is. If you're getting killed by it all the time, you need more hp - eat some food, change your enchants, or change your stats. If you're walking around with a glass cannon type build, you're gonna get smacked. Plus, each class has their own ways to escape or survive:
- DK's have Dragon Blood & Reflect.
- Sorcs have Bolt Escape & a damage shield.
- NB's have invisibility & incredible sneak bonuses.
- Templars have self-heals & a damage shield.
Moreover, every class has access to a reflect through the 1h&shield line as well as a bubble & self heals through the Resto Staff line.

Every player needs a self-preservation skill on their bar for both PvE & PvP. Plain & simple.

gendarkb16_ESO

My issue with snipe is that does the same or nearly the same damage than a 2h but as the safest distance in the game. Its wrong that you can spam snipe from 48m (pvp) and do the same dmg than in melee.

Snipe damage should be nerfed.
I am really fine if I get oneshoted by a wrekingblow/ambush or other melee atack when my shield is down or if i get distracted, but I am not fine with a skill that does massive dmg from far far away, and you can cast 2-4 snipes before the target realizes where you are.

HeroOfNone

As I've said before, the issue with snipe is not the ability it's self, it's a synergy of mechanics. The travel time, the ability to use it multiple times before it hits the target, the fact you can cast it from stealth, the range, the reduced healing, and the fact that you can go back into stealth after its been cast are the major issues that make so many rage. If you tweaked those abilities so you stayed b out of stealth, or had to be exposed when casting it, there would probably be less grief about it.

Emma_Overload

technohic wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now they want to nerf Snipe, the last high DPS play the Sorcerers have left. PVP whiners have already killed my class, what difference does it make?

Man. Why does every change outside of classes have to be somehow a direct attack on sorcerers? Whats the deal?

Because our class abilities suck so bad for DPS that no one uses them. That means that any time a weapon ability gets nerfed, you're actually nerfing sorcerers the most because we don't have any really good direct damage class abilities to fall back on.

C0pp3rhead

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now they want to nerf Snipe, the last high DPS play the Sorcerers have left. PVP whiners have already killed my class, what difference does it make?

Man. Why does every change outside of classes have to be somehow a direct attack on sorcerers? Whats the deal?

Because our class abilities suck so bad for DPS that no one uses them. That means that any time a weapon ability gets nerfed, you're actually nerfing sorcerers the most because we don't have any really good direct damage class abilities to fall back on.

The same could be said for Templars; some of the changes coming in 1.6 will help our magicka based DPS, but stamina builds for both classes still churn out more DPS than a magicka-skill rotation.

Nacario

As stated over a hundred times before, someone who invest resources i to making snipe powerful, has to give up on certain defensive options. Its funny cuz any competent player knows how to work around snipe. All you saying snipe is op should look at you own gear skills playstyle. You want snipe to have same range as sorc skills so u can interrupt? As a magica user u have access to a wider array of abilities to overcome, not to mention a snipe user dont 'win' by standing 'close' while spamming snipe in ur face.

1.6 further brings role specialization. A bow user relies on its range to survive with speed and positioning. If he goes to close hes toast, esp a NB bow user who hits the hardest but is designed for offensive play. A magica user can be a jack of all trades, with access to shields that can be stacked and entirely other supportive passives.

Those are just some examples. And its even more frustrating as a bow user that focuses on its burst when facing a hard counter DK. Look at it as a whole instead of trying to make something look op all the time, everything has its strenghts and weakness.

Digiman

QuadroTony wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

1.6 has changed the 35 long range attack from 1.1 seconds to 1 second.

where did you find this in changelogs?

Was playing the PTS compared it to what's happening on live. Not everything in the change log is mention, most go through without being announced.

Lynx7386

- NB's have invisibility & incredible sneak bonuses.

10 months into the game and people are still using the nightblade's incredibly broken cloak to justify that they're 'ok'. *sigh*